Re: Capillarity
So Merlin loco works knew how to >do it almost 20 yrs ago! I wouldn't think I would bestow credit on Tom Cooper aka Mr. Merlin. Most likely it was one of the Becks that he was converting at the time. These were cataloged as Merlin Beck Engineering Ltd. one of which was called Maestro. A clear photo of this " water gauge" is on page 62 of the 16 mm scale live steam model locomotives Vol. 1 by Peter Dobson. ISBN 0 947750 01 0. Gary B
Re: hunslet
If I remember correctly, one LBSC books describes how to build that type of sight glass. I think it was his book "Live Steam". It wasn't on my bookshelf when I looked for it earlier, but I think that I am right. Bob
Re: meniscus mayhem
>From what I can recall, not all plastics are "non-wetting". I believe High Density Polyethylene (HDPE) is non-wetting but it has many physical characteristics that would be undesirable for our application. Specifically, it is much more plastic (i.e. less rigid) and is milky as opposed to clear. Acrylic plastics such as those sold under the trade names of Plexiglas, Lucite, Acrylite, and Perspex (sp?) are naturally hygroscopic (have an affinity for water). While that fact alone is not a problem, it would seem to indicate they don't have the "non-wetting" characteristic we desire. Just some rambling recollections... Are there any polymer experts amongst us? Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: hunslet site glass photo
Geoff and Dave: Thank you very much for posting the Hunslet photo. Tonight I will dig through the "inventory" in my garage to see what bits and pieces I might have to make a similar site glass. Geoff, your photography skills are great. Steve
Re: hunslet site glass photo
>Thanks Dave, And yes Trent, that is a good size butane tank, nicely hidden under the side tanks when the "top" is on. Geoff. i've posted this image at > >http://www.45mm.com/sslivesteam/files/spenceley010531.jpg > >\dmc > >-- >*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+ >David M. Cole[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Editor & Publisher: The Cole Papers; NEWSINC.V: (650) 557-9595 >Consultant: The Cole Group F: (650) 557-9696 >http://colegroup.com/P.O. Box 719, Pacifica, CA 94044-0719 >*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
Re: hunslet site glass photo
Thanks loads for the sight glass picture, It clears up any confusion just by looking at the rear of the engine. You fellows have had some good ideas for us old timers Dick Wyckoff -Original Message- From: David M. Cole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, May 31, 2001 5:00 PM Subject: Re: hunslet site glass photo >i've posted this image at > >http://www.45mm.com/sslivesteam/files/spenceley010531.jpg > >\dmc > >-- >*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* +*+ >David M. Cole [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Editor & Publisher: The Cole Papers; NEWSINC.V: (650) 557-9595 >Consultant: The Cole Group F: (650) 557-9696 >http://colegroup.com/P.O. Box 719, Pacifica, CA 94044-0719 >*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* +*+ >
Re: meniscus mayhem
Would not the portion of the tube that does not contain water have higher temp steam in it? I've never studied Thermodynamics, but there must be something like convection currents in the water portion, thus there would be some (maybe slight) temp differences. There should be some temp difference between steam and liquid, and since the system is pressurized, the temp should be higher than the 212 degree temp that water boils at in an open container at sea level. However, I could be as wet as the steam in a Ruby's cylinders! Keep it (your choice) up! Walt & Lunk
Re: hunslet site glass photo
i've posted this image at http://www.45mm.com/sslivesteam/files/spenceley010531.jpg \dmc -- *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+ David M. Cole[EMAIL PROTECTED] Editor & Publisher: The Cole Papers; NEWSINC.V: (650) 557-9595 Consultant: The Cole Group F: (650) 557-9696 http://colegroup.com/P.O. Box 719, Pacifica, CA 94044-0719 *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
Re: hunslet site glass photo
TrotFox,, THanks, I have sent it to you, Geoff. Geoff, > >Why not just post it to a web-site for everyone who wants to see? If you >don't have the ability I can host it for you. :) > >Trot, the helpful, fox... > > > /\_/\TrotFox\ Always remember, >( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a > >\./< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative." >
Re: hunslet site glass photo
Geoff, Why not just post it to a web-site for everyone who wants to see? If you don't have the ability I can host it for you. :) Trot, the helpful, fox... /\_/\TrotFox\ Always remember, ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a >\./< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
Re: hunslet
I'd like a look at it as well. :) Do you think it'd be easy to fabricate for use on a future boiler I plan to build? (I have the pipe sitting beside me now...) Trot, the question-filled, fox... On Thu, 31 May 2001, Geoff Spenceley wrote: > Royce, > > I'll attempt to take one with my "none-close up lens" and send it to you > off list, > > Geoff /\_/\TrotFox\ Always remember, ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a >\./< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
Re: hunslet
Hello Geoff, Could I get a picture of it send by e-mail as well? Sounds like a great setup. Maybe I can somewhat replicate it for the sight glass that I'm working on for Ruby. Thanks, Trent Geoff Spenceley wrote: > I'll attempt to take one with my "none-close up lens" and send it to you > off list,
Re: Capillarity
Harry, Nope. I wasn't yanking your chain. I actually thought that perhaps someone in the architectural field might have a need to outsource such a service on occasion for load bearing walls, earthquake and wind resistance, etc. I don't know of anyone with FEA software either, but I'll see if Parametric Technologies (Pro/E) might can do a "freebie" for me. Surely, considering what we paid for their software, they can do just one little favor. Later, Trent Harry Wade wrote: > At 01:48 PM 5/30/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Harry, > >Do you know anyone with Finite Element Analysis experience and software? > > OK I've admitted I don't know anything about this, now you're just > yanking my chain aren't you? :-) But to answer your question, no. > hw >
Re: meniscus mayhem
Hello Everyone, I had thought of plastic also. Not because of the capillary action being corrected (which I only learned after reading this post), but because my Mamod has an elongated plastic port hole style sight glass in the backhead. It's about 3/8" wide, 1.1/8" long, and .050" thick. What type of plastic? I don't know but I'm guessing probably polycarbonate. Just as Fritz has stated, the plastic might lose it's integrity at a higher temperature when subjected to the pressure of the steam in the boiler. If anyone finds a source for small diameter tubing, the company should be able to provide technical support/information for the product being sold. Later, Trent P.S.- Not meaning to open a can of worms here, but wouldn't the steam have a higher temperature than the water inside the boiler? Royce Woodbury wrote: > If there's water in the tube, it can't be much over 200 > deg F that it would have to endure. > > "Brohn, Fredrick" wrote: > > > Has anyone considered using plastic in lieu of glass? > such a plastic > > tube would have to be able to withstand the heat and pressure of steam. > > Here I can offer no information. Any "materials" experts out there should > > be able to provide the right info.
Re: meniscus mayhem
In a message dated 5/31/01 8:30:03 AM Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << it can't be much over 200 deg F that it would have to endure. >> It can be much higher than that depending on the steam pressure. bill
Re: hunslet
Royce, I'll attempt to take one with my "none-close up lens" and send it to you off list, Geoff >Anybody got a picture of this? > >royce > >Geoff Spenceley wrote: > >> Fritz et al, >> >> I previously mentioned the sight glass on the Merlin Hunslet--it is a >> plastic "plate' glass sandwiched between two brass plates, with gaskets >> and fastened with screws. The tubes from the boiler to the sight glass are >> straight and oversize--5mm outer dia. There is no problem with >> bubbles--there is a red line in the back making reading easy--and the glass >> is positioned where it is easy to read., So Merlin loco works knew how to >> do it almost 20 yrs ago! Perhaps another manufacturer can do the same >> today--more expense--yes, but worth it, wish every loco I have had the >> same arrangement. More advantages; easy to take apart and clean and no >> breakage problems! >> >> Geoff. >> >> >Has anyone considered using plastic in lieu of glass? In one of our >>biology >> >lab experiments we have our students measure water in a glass graduated >> >cylinder and then repeat the measurement in a plastic (Nalgene,TM) >>graduated >> >cylinder. With glass you need to read the "bottom" of the curve, >>called the >> >meniscus. With plastic this is not necessary as there is no "wetting" and >> >therefore no capillary action. Clearly (no pun intended) such a plastic >> >tube would have to be able to withstand the heat and pressure of steam. >> >Here I can offer no information. Any "materials" experts out there should >> >be able to provide the right info. May save a lot of headaches! >> > >> >Keep your steam and sap up! >> > >> >Fritz Brohn >> > >> >> >
hunslet
Anybody got a picture of this? royce Geoff Spenceley wrote: > Fritz et al, > > I previously mentioned the sight glass on the Merlin Hunslet--it is a > plastic "plate' glass sandwiched between two brass plates, with gaskets > and fastened with screws. The tubes from the boiler to the sight glass are > straight and oversize--5mm outer dia. There is no problem with > bubbles--there is a red line in the back making reading easy--and the glass > is positioned where it is easy to read., So Merlin loco works knew how to > do it almost 20 yrs ago! Perhaps another manufacturer can do the same > today--more expense--yes, but worth it, wish every loco I have had the > same arrangement. More advantages; easy to take apart and clean and no > breakage problems! > > Geoff. > > >Has anyone considered using plastic in lieu of glass? In one of our biology > >lab experiments we have our students measure water in a glass graduated > >cylinder and then repeat the measurement in a plastic (Nalgene,TM) graduated > >cylinder. With glass you need to read the "bottom" of the curve, called the > >meniscus. With plastic this is not necessary as there is no "wetting" and > >therefore no capillary action. Clearly (no pun intended) such a plastic > >tube would have to be able to withstand the heat and pressure of steam. > >Here I can offer no information. Any "materials" experts out there should > >be able to provide the right info. May save a lot of headaches! > > > >Keep your steam and sap up! > > > >Fritz Brohn > > > >
Re: Capillarity
Fritz et al, I previously mentioned the sight glass on the Merlin Hunslet--it is a plastic "plate' glass sandwiched between two brass plates, with gaskets and fastened with screws. The tubes from the boiler to the sight glass are straight and oversize--5mm outer dia. There is no problem with bubbles--there is a red line in the back making reading easy--and the glass is positioned where it is easy to read., So Merlin loco works knew how to do it almost 20 yrs ago! Perhaps another manufacturer can do the same today--more expense--yes, but worth it, wish every loco I have had the same arrangement. More advantages; easy to take apart and clean and no breakage problems! Geoff. >Has anyone considered using plastic in lieu of glass? In one of our biology >lab experiments we have our students measure water in a glass graduated >cylinder and then repeat the measurement in a plastic (Nalgene,TM) graduated >cylinder. With glass you need to read the "bottom" of the curve, called the >meniscus. With plastic this is not necessary as there is no "wetting" and >therefore no capillary action. Clearly (no pun intended) such a plastic >tube would have to be able to withstand the heat and pressure of steam. >Here I can offer no information. Any "materials" experts out there should >be able to provide the right info. May save a lot of headaches! > >Keep your steam and sap up! > >Fritz Brohn >
Re: Capillarity
Since this is a live steam list, I also have to mention "Wick oilers" which work by capillarity. Have a pot of oil with a wick hanging down into the oil. Lead the wick up and over the side of the pot into another pot, and it will siphon the oil over to the other pot. Bearings have been oiled that way for years. Control of the oil flow rate is gained by twisting a wire around the wick to "strangle" it. I'm still surprised that it actually works. Cheers, Peter.
meniscus mayhem
It appears that Fritz has the answer. Eliminate the meniscus ! Improve accuracy ! I'm for it. If there's water in the tube, it can't be much over 200 deg F that it would have to endure. "Brohn, Fredrick" wrote: > Has anyone considered using plastic in lieu of glass? In one of our biology > lab experiments we have our students measure water in a glass graduated > cylinder and then repeat the measurement in a plastic (Nalgene,TM) graduated > cylinder. With glass you need to read the "bottom" of the curve, called the > meniscus. With plastic this is not necessary as there is no "wetting" and > therefore no capillary action. Clearly (no pun intended) such a plastic > tube would have to be able to withstand the heat and pressure of steam. > Here I can offer no information. Any "materials" experts out there should > be able to provide the right info. May save a lot of headaches! > > Keep your steam and sap up! > > Fritz Brohn >
Capillarity
Has anyone considered using plastic in lieu of glass? In one of our biology lab experiments we have our students measure water in a glass graduated cylinder and then repeat the measurement in a plastic (Nalgene,TM) graduated cylinder. With glass you need to read the "bottom" of the curve, called the meniscus. With plastic this is not necessary as there is no "wetting" and therefore no capillary action. Clearly (no pun intended) such a plastic tube would have to be able to withstand the heat and pressure of steam. Here I can offer no information. Any "materials" experts out there should be able to provide the right info. May save a lot of headaches! Keep your steam and sap up! Fritz Brohn
