posts and frost heave
Now that we settled depth is at minimum 3' let's discuss digging holes. I have dug holes with clam diggers ( a real pain, but ok if digging one or two holes). I have rented one and two man post hole diggers. From my experience, just pay the extra money and rent the one man post hole digger. It digs holes faster, easier, and with far less hassle. Plus you can do it with one person. Two man hole diggers can fling two big guys around in circles faster than you think possible if you hit tree roots or rock. Solid roots are the worst for throwing macho cheapscats believe me! But it is sort of fun if you are young enough to enjoy being thrown about. If you have the room it is possible to use a tractor with a post hole drill on the back end. Don't argue, don't try to save a few dollars, just rent the one man post hole digger and dig the holes as deep as needed. Make it right. One day with the right equipment and all the holes will be drilled. Even half a day if you have all the land cleared and trees are not sending roots into your drill sites. Doing it right can save money and frustration. Steaming & Sparking over Terror Trestle in Eugene, Oregon ~ Gary http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor | Joe, | Here's a website from a fencing company right there in | Harrisburg, have a look, this is what I'm talking about. | Harry Wade | |
Re: posts and frost heave
At 07:58 PM 1/4/05 -0500, Joe Betsko wrote: I am located in the Harrisburg, PA, area and frost heave evidences itself from time to time. I plan on digging post holes about a foot and a half deep, filling the bottom with about two inches of gravel, installing the post in the hole and then backfilling with dirt while maintaining plumb. Based on this methodology, will the posts be susceptible to the effects of frost heave? Absolute minimum for southern Pa would be 3', more if the digging is not too hard. A little extra sweat will mean it's done right the first time. Having to mess about trying to level a layout when the posts have moved due to frost action, or worse, ripping it out and doing it again.best do it right the first time! regards, pf
Re: Planes and trains
You hit the nail onthe head, Keith, Some know about our models, some don't-- I suggest lack of training so I duly now and here, appoint you: Keith Bucklitch as a STEAM ( "Security Train Expert Agent Manager) . Just write to George W and the Queen to confirm your appointment. Your Salary? mega bucks-er -Quid? a month. Our security agents are not well trained liked those at Heathrow, the US agents are a mixed bunch from my experience and not very professional. I usually lecture them which makes my day but not theirs when I ask for their supervisor! Geoff. Geoff. My experience is that the scanner operators at Heathrow airport have no difficulty in telling exactly what is in the box. I took a 16mm scale loco to New Zealand, via Chicago and Los Angeles. It was carried in a blue plastic toolbox. At Heathrow, I asked the scanner girl, "Can you tell what it is?" "A locomotive" she replied, "Do you want to come and have a look?" So we put the loco, in its box back on the conveyor and nipped round to the viewing side. Not only could one see the detail of the steam loco, but tell the colour of it as well. When we had to go through the scanners again at Chicago, it was a totally different story. They just did not have a clue! "What's in the box, Man?", "You'll have to open the box." I did, but I don't think they still knew what it was! I had similar response at LA last February when I was returning to the UK. Keith
Re: posts and frost heave
At 07:40 PM 01/04/2005 -0600, you wrote: >At 07:58 PM 1/4/05 -0500, you wrote: >>I am located in the Harrisburg, PA, >>I plan on digging post holes about a foot and a half deep, - Joe > >Joe, > MY frostline is 18" so yours will be more, as much as 36". Your >local building codes office will be able to tell what the local minimum >recommended building frostline is. >>>SNIP I'm not saying you absolutely must drill >to Oz with this but you KNOW that if my building frostline is at 18" then >yours should be somewhat deeper than that. > >Harry Wade >Nashville TN = Joe / Harry When I replaced all the single 4x4 posts on the IE&W with pairs I went down 18-20 inches. I backfilled with Sakrette. On the first layout we set the posts at 24-30" and backfilled with earth. This was not stable enough when someone leaned on the track. I have seen no frost heave or settling in the four years since I did the reconstruction. Jim Stapleton Purcellville -- in northernmost VA
Re: posts and frost heave
Now Harry is talking good common sense! Steaming & Sparking over Terror Trestle in Eugene, Oregon ~ Gary http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor | Joe, | MY frostline is 18" so yours will be more, as much as 36". Your | local building codes office will be able to tell what the local minimum | recommended building frostline is. Double-check any answer you get from | talking to a contractor, or your brother-in-law, because that might be an | "Aw that ought'a be enough" figure and of course they won't be around if | the posts pop out of the ground. I'm not saying you absolutely must drill | to Oz with this but you KNOW that if my building frostline is at 18" then | yours should be somewhat deeper than that. | | Harry Wade | Nashville TN |
Re: posts and frost heave
Why do I suggest digging deeper that 1.5 feet deep? Posts set 1.5 feet deep with a leverage handle of 30" in relatively soft ground will probably result in the posts leaning all too soon, or even falling over, especially if they have no cement to anchor them. At that depth, even with cement, it is too shallow. Again, opinion, for what it's worth. Generally, I prefer to construct things a bit stronger to ensure I do not have to redo the project again, and again. I do not have the energy to do things multiple times. Steaming & Sparking over Terror Trestle in Eugene, Oregon ~ Gary http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor | Hello, | | I bought some western red cedar, 2 x 4's and 4 x 4's, to begin | construction of the elevated line. I have moved some plants, drawing | some inspiration from this picture: | http://www.gaugeone.org/images/LNWR.jpg but on a smaller and more | manageable scale. The line should be about 30" above the ground. I | have a half acre but a 20 x 40 ft. area should be a good start. Okay, | the real inspiration was catching a cold from having to get down on the | ground for operations and not wanting to go through the nasty cold | business again. | | I am located in the Harrisburg, PA, area and frost heave evidences | itself from time to time. I plan on digging post holes about a foot | and a half deep, filling the bottom with about two inches of gravel, | installing the post in the hole and then backfilling with dirt while | maintaining plumb. Based on this methodology, will the posts be | susceptible to the effects of frost heave? | | Thanks, | Joe |
Re: posts and frost heave
Joe, Here's a website from a fencing company right there in Harrisburg, have a look, this is what I'm talking about. Harry Wade
Joe Betsko's posts and frost heave
Yes. Why not use the method that some have adopted that allows posts to be adjusted? They install rot impervious posts (PVC 4" or 6" pipe, TREX 4x4, other supports) in the ground. Then have sliding posts installed over those posts permitting adjustments due to whatever events occur. Here in Oregon I have had tree roots move my trestle a mere 8" higher than originally built. One section of trestle dropped a noticeable inch. I lowered the tree root elevated section last spring. Frost heave is not a problem here. For my deck support I drilled 3 - 4 feet deep two foot diameter concrete footings. That is overkill for a track support. However, I would not trust cedar directly in ground contact to survive longer than a few years. If you dig 2.5 to 3' deep and then have at least 6" of aggregate for drainage, then use sackcrete or cement to hold the cedar, I think the cedar would have a better chance to survive. Make sure the cement is above the surface of the ground and is rounded so water runs away from the post. Give the wood every chance to not have to soak up water. There are some "below grade fence post coatings" that need to cure for a week before the post is set that really improve the lasting quality of wood posts. I coated my cedar trestle legs with this stuff to help them survive. Note how cedar fences survive well, but the posts and fence bottoms rot out. OK, I am pushing definitions here, but look a cedar fences. Where the wood contacts earth they rot. Use my techniques and cedar lasts significantly longer. Worth looking into if you want your work to last longer than let's say five to ten years. Just opinions - but backed by a bit of experience too Steaming & Sparking over Terror Trestle in Eugene, Oregon ~ Gary http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor
Re: posts and frost heave
At 07:58 PM 1/4/05 -0500, you wrote: >I am located in the Harrisburg, PA, >I plan on digging post holes about a foot and a half deep, - Joe Joe, MY frostline is 18" so yours will be more, as much as 36". Your local building codes office will be able to tell what the local minimum recommended building frostline is. Double-check any answer you get from talking to a contractor, or your brother-in-law, because that might be an "Aw that ought'a be enough" figure and of course they won't be around if the posts pop out of the ground. I'm not saying you absolutely must drill to Oz with this but you KNOW that if my building frostline is at 18" then yours should be somewhat deeper than that. Harry Wade Nashville TN
posts and frost heave
Hello, I bought some western red cedar, 2 x 4's and 4 x 4's, to begin construction of the elevated line. I have moved some plants, drawing some inspiration from this picture: http://www.gaugeone.org/images/LNWR.jpg but on a smaller and more manageable scale. The line should be about 30" above the ground. I have a half acre but a 20 x 40 ft. area should be a good start. Okay, the real inspiration was catching a cold from having to get down on the ground for operations and not wanting to go through the nasty cold business again. I am located in the Harrisburg, PA, area and frost heave evidences itself from time to time. I plan on digging post holes about a foot and a half deep, filling the bottom with about two inches of gravel, installing the post in the hole and then backfilling with dirt while maintaining plumb. Based on this methodology, will the posts be susceptible to the effects of frost heave? Thanks, Joe
Re: Planes and trains
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 12:31:07 -0800 From: Geoff Spenceley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Planes and trains When flying, can anyone out in the "steam" inform me concerning any problems there may be taking a small loco (like the Aster Lion) in the carry-on bag on board. I would like recent experiences as the type of security keeps changing--like from federal employees to private security companies, etc.-- trained chimpanzees next? Geoff. My experience is that the scanner operators at Heathrow airport have no difficulty in telling exactly what is in the box. I took a 16mm scale loco to New Zealand, via Chicago and Los Angeles. It was carried in a blue plastic toolbox. At Heathrow, I asked the scanner girl, "Can you tell what it is?" "A locomotive" she replied, "Do you want to come and have a look?" So we put the loco, in its box back on the conveyor and nipped round to the viewing side. Not only could one see the detail of the steam loco, but tell the colour of it as well. When we had to go through the scanners again at Chicago, it was a totally different story. They just did not have a clue! "What's in the box, Man?", "You'll have to open the box." I did, but I don't think they still knew what it was! I had similar response at LA last February when I was returning to the UK. Keith
