Aster Mikado - Ceramic Burners
I'm about to attempt my first set of ceramic burners having just secured a fire brick. The burners will be for my Aster Mikado. Has anyone on the list made ceramic burners for the Mikado? I was planning on following a design I saw in Steam in the Garden with the burner having a rounded top and a narrow bottom. Do I need to make all three wicks for the burner or will two be enough? How do you adjust the amount of flame you get - cut down on the size of the burner head or the size of the bottom to cut down on the alcohol consumption? All advice is welcome. Don _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: Ceramic Burners - Give him a prize !
The Majordomo's Gold Star to this man ! Art Walker - Original Message - From: Keith Manison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 2:33 AM Subject: Re: Ceramic Burners [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You might try these ideas: Instead of going farther away with your heat, go closer so that the proper part of the flame, ie, the tips are closer to the bottom. Bob, As this was the easiest to try I moved up the whole burner by no more than 3/32. What a difference! Raises steam in half the time and keeps 40psi with a good running speed on the Graham. I can top up through the Goodall with some pressure loss bt it soon recovers. Great advice! Many thanks. Cheers Keith -- === Keith Manison Phone (876)702-0337 7 Mulberry CloseFax (876)702-0661 Jacks Hill P.A.Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kingston 6, Jamaica W.I.
Re: Ceramic Burners
If, as I presume, you are using a round ceramic Cheddar burner with a Cheddar boiler, I am surprised indeed that it does not steam like hell. I also do not think these things need 'secondary' air. Sounds to me, Keith, that there are some things to try first before hacking it about. Firstly, is the jet holder properly positioned with respect to the air holes in the burner tube.Try different positions either further in or further out see what effect the change has on lighting up, smell on the steaming. Then is the jet properly sealed into the holder ie try the effect of a bit of PTFE tape on the threads is there a washer reqd to seal the jet against the holder? I think the latter suggestions are less likely as it seems you have too much gas relative to the air. BUT remember that with these systems one relies on the pressure velocity of the gas to draw in the air reqd. for combustion in through the air holes. Therefore if the jet is blocked or badly positioned or the gas is going where it shouldn't then not enough air is entrained for good combustion. You are sure the ceramic has not got displaced from its seating ? Hope these are lucid enough thoughts on return from the pub on a Friday night ! Arthur Walker, Guildford, England - Original Message - From: Keith Manison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 10:22 PM Subject: Ceramic Burners I need some ideas and advice. I'm building a couple of vertical boilered Class A Climaxes using the same chassis/truck/engine combination that I've used before. The difference is that instead of a Roundhouse boiler I'm using one of the vertical boilers made by Cheddar for Mike Zemek for his Shay project. This was to use the Graham Shay engine, so it should be sized for it. Compared to the Roundhouse boilers I've used, and even a Cheddar Pippit vertical boiler, the Shay boiler is positively anaemic. It takes forever to raise steam and cannot keep up with the Graham. It uses the same sized burner as the Pippit boiler, but with a #5 jet instead of a #8. I tried swapping jets, no difference. My gut feeling is that there is too little secondary air getting to the top of the burner. The internal diameter of the Pippit boiler is 2 5/8, the diameter of the burner is a tad over 2, leaving a nice annular space of at least 1/4 around the burner. However, the internal diamter of the Shay boiler is only 2 1/8, leaving barely 1/16 annular gap. Running the Pippit boiler produces no appreciable smell, but the Shay boiler emits a nasty smell which I suspect is caused by incomplete combustion of the butane. What is the opinion of ceramic burner uses and experts on the list? Should I set to and drill some secondary air holes around the firebox section of the boiler at about level with the top of the burner to improve combustion, or should I install the Pippit boiler instead! Cheers Keith -- === Keith Manison Phone (876)702-0337 7 Mulberry CloseFax (876)702-0661 Jacks Hill P.A.Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kingston 6, Jamaica W.I.
Re: Ceramic Burners
Art, Going over your suggestions: Firstly, is the jet holder properly positioned with respect to the air holes in the burner tube.Try different positions either further in or further out see what effect the change has on lighting up, smell on the steaming. That was one of the first things I tried. There is definately an optimum postiton, it's where the burner is glowing a nice orange colour. Good glow, but not enough steam. Then is the jet properly sealed into the holder ie try the effect of a bit of PTFE tape on the threads is there a washer reqd to seal the jet against the holder? I think the latter suggestions are less likely as it seems you have too much gas relative to the air. I have four of these burners with jet/holder assemblies. I've tried them all. Just to put it in perspective I've tried jet sizes #3, #5 (as supplied) and #8. I went to the smaller jet as I, too, suspected too much gas. BUT remember that with these systems one relies on the pressure velocity of the gas to draw in the air reqd. for combustion in through the air holes. Therefore if the jet is blocked or badly positioned or the gas is going where it shouldn't then not enough air is entrained for good combustion. The thing is I can get a nice glow to the ceramic with all burners and jets, although the #8 is the most tricky to get right. So I'm assuming the holder/jet/ceramic assembly is working OK. In fact I've them all running out of the boiler and all work fine on the bench and under the Pippit boiler. You are sure the ceramic has not got displaced from its seating ? Yup, certain, and as I said, four different burners have been tried. One other difference between the two boilers is that the Pippit has a 1 diameter flue, the Shay has a 1/2 diameter flue. I just can't help thinking that the flow of combustion gas is being choked somehow. I dropper the burner assembly a little to give more space betweenthe top of the ceramic and the bottom of the water space, but this made no appreciable differance. I know Cheddar boilers steam easily, but this one doesn't. Carl Malone has one in a Climax chassis I made for him and he also finds it slow to raise steam. Hope these are lucid enough thoughts on return from the pub on a Friday night ! Perfectly lucid. Trouble is I've already tried them. Maybe I should go the pub too!! More fun than this boiler. Cheers Keith -- === Keith Manison Phone (876)702-0337 7 Mulberry CloseFax (876)702-0661 Jacks Hill P.A.Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kingston 6, Jamaica W.I.
Re: Ceramic Burners
Keith, I had the same kind of problems in designing the boilers for my Grasshopper Logger engine. The boiler is 2 copper and my burner is 1.5 dia. Originally, I tried 1/2 flues with cross tubes and had a lot of trouble raising steam. The boilers that I make now are 3/4 tubes with three cross tubes, 5/32 dia. This set up steams very well. I also have a quill arangement on the bottom sheet. You might try these ideas: Instead of going farther away with your heat, go closer so that the proper part of the flame, ie, the tips are closer to the bottom. Another, is that ceramic burners depend on the swirling and slow down of the butane to work properly. You might try putting some screen under the ceramic or a resrtiction at the end of the gas tube. I do think that you are not getting enough updraught with your fire and the experiments that I have done with drilling holes around the burner made no appreciable difference. Bob Starr
Re: Ceramic Burners
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do think that you are not getting enough updraught with your fire and the experiments that I have done with drilling holes around the burner made no appreciable difference. Bob, Thanks for the input. Yes, I think updraft is the problem. As you've already tried drilling around the burner with no improvment I'll shelve that idea. As this is a commercial boiler I don't intend to do major surgery on it. I think the 1/2 flue is a bad idea and that the design is just wrong. My guess is that they put in a small flue to give more water space in what is a small diameter boiler. The funny thing is, it comes with a Goodall valve and a clack (check) valve fitted, so it was obviously designed for for a feed pump. With the Graham throttled back to a steady tick-over it just maintains about 20psi. But shoot water in via the Goodall and it kills the pressure and cannot recover without stopping the engine. I've fitted Goodall valves to Roundhouse boilers and they keep up even with pumping water in. Cheers Keith -- === Keith Manison Phone (876)702-0337 7 Mulberry CloseFax (876)702-0661 Jacks Hill P.A.Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kingston 6, Jamaica W.I.
Re: Ceramic Burners
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You might try these ideas: Instead of going farther away with your heat, go closer so that the proper part of the flame, ie, the tips are closer to the bottom. Bob, As this was the easiest to try I moved up the whole burner by no more than 3/32. What a difference! Raises steam in half the time and keeps 40psi with a good running speed on the Graham. I can top up through the Goodall with some pressure loss bt it soon recovers. Great advice! Many thanks. Cheers Keith -- === Keith Manison Phone (876)702-0337 7 Mulberry CloseFax (876)702-0661 Jacks Hill P.A.Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kingston 6, Jamaica W.I.
