RE: Coal fired BAGRS

[Harry Wade]

At 08:16 AM 5/2/01 -0400, you wrote:
>I notice that there are no crown stays above the firebox in Henk's design.  
>Would that be a problem at the 60 psi working pressure noted in the writeup?
>Casey Sterbenz

Casey,
A combination of things does away with the need for them.  The crown
sheet of course is actually a "beam" and as such must either be short and
stout, or be supported along its length.  In this case the "beam" is very
short, and through a combination of material thickness, the staying effect
of the firebox sides, and the "corrugation"-like rolls in the crown, it is
made self-staying.   The "corrugated firebox" was used quite a bit in full
size traction and portable engines.  In the case of Henke's boiler my only
concern would be what effect a 120psi hydro test will have on that crown
sheet.  Maybe none, depending upon the thickness of the metal.

Regards,
Harry Wade
Nashville, Tn
 

RE: Coal fired BAGRS

[Casey Sterbenz]

That is a nice looking boiler design on the Henk Bunte web site.  The design 
appears very similar to that used on the LBSC "Tich".  (Interesting, the 
Tich with its 2" dia drivers is hardly much bigger than Ruby!)  It is also 
similar to the design used in the Little Engines 1/4" scale 4-6-4 and 4-8-4 
boilers.  I've got another book around somewhere by LBSC showing a coal 
fired boiler for a 1/4" scale locomotive called "Bat."  It looks like Henk's 
boiler is well designed.

I notice that there are no crown stays above the firebox in Henk's design.  
Would that be a problem at the 60 psi working pressure noted in the writeup?

Casey Sterbenz


>From: Shyvers, Steve Subject: RE: Coal fired BAGRS Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 
>16:42:18 -0700

>Dave and the list,

>Maybe I was joking a little about the Ruby. Take a close look at Henk
>Bunte's description of his home-made coal-fired loco on his website at
>www.modelbouwatelier.nl. The firebox is about 7/8" wide and 2-3/8" long per
>his drawing, which you can download. The firebox is deep and the  boiler
>diameter is about 2-3/8". These dimensions will make Ruby look  chunky, but
>it might be possible to slim it down a bit. Undoubtedly one would have to
>sacrifice some scale proportions in favor of functionality, just as the
>BAGRS loco does.

>Regards,
>Steve


_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
 

Re: Coal fired BAGRS

[Michael Martin]

Hi all,

Gary Broeder wrote:


> he did not widen the frames but instead opted to build a deep firebox
> with solid copper "legs" to help conduct some of the heat up into the boiler
> as there was no room for the common "water legs".
>
>

That's correct.  I will post a drawing in the next day or two that I created,
based on a seminar on coal fired boiler construction given by John Shawe at the
'97 Diamondhead meet.  I will also post some tables that relate flue diameter to
length as well as total flue area versus grate area etc.

Regards,

Michael Martin
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

Re: Coal fired BAGRS

[Gary Broeder]

>> Have the conversions John Shawe has made been from gas or alcohol?


 John has  converted the well known gas fired Roundhouse Sandy River #24 to
coal  as well as others. I  read an article some time ago in Tom Cooper's
"Steamlines"  where John reboilered an Aster Schools to coal fired. I recall
that he did not widen the frames but instead opted to build a deep firebox
with solid copper "legs" to help conduct some of the heat up into the boiler
as there was no room for the common "water legs".

GaryB
 

RE: Coal fired BAGRS

[Shyvers, Steve]

Dave and the list,

Maybe I was joking a little about the Ruby. Take a close look at Henk
Bunte's description of his home-made coal-fired loco on his website at
www.modelbouwatelier.nl. The firebox is about 7/8" wide and 2-3/8" long per
his drawing, which you can download. The firebox is deep and the  boiler
diameter is about 2-3/8". These dimensions will make Ruby look  chunky, but
it might be possible to slim it down a bit. Undoubtedly one would have to
sacrifice some scale proportions in favor of functionality, just as the
BAGRS loco does.

Regards,
Steve
 

Re: Coal fired BAGRS

[trotfox]

It would be possible to modify the frames by carefully bending them wider
then adding to them so that the firebox could ride between them.  If you
remove the cab floor the frames are just left hanging there.  :)

You'd have to get it just right though as the axles could bind if the
back of the frames don't end up in their same origional locations...

Trot, the fox who's tossin' thoughts...

On Tue, 1 May 2001, Jim Curry wrote:

> Dave:
>
> John Shaw makes a new locomotive style boiler so the original fuel source is
> not material to the converted engine.  Major issues are space between or
> above the frames for the firebox/ashpan.  From there he needs some new
> plumbing for a blower and nozzle and in many cases he puts an axle pump on.
> There's no reason the Rube couldn't continue with the Goodall type injection
> system that people are using now.
>
> Jim


 /\_/\TrotFox\ Always remember,
( o o )  AKA Landon Solomon   \ "There is a
 >\./< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
 

Re: Coal fired BAGRS

[Clark Lord]

There's an echo here in the small scale list.
CBL  
Glad you mentioned the nozzle and axle pump Jim.  Another modification
needed is a way to open the smoke box door so the flues can be brushed.

Jim Curry wrote:
> 
> Dave:
> 
> John Shaw makes a new locomotive style boiler so the original fuel source is
> not material to the converted engine.  Major issues are space between or
> above the frames for the firebox/ashpan.  From there he needs some new
> plumbing for a blower and nozzle and in many cases he puts an axle pump on.
> There's no reason the Rube couldn't continue with the Goodall type injection
> system that people are using now.
> 
> Jim
> 

RE: Coal fired BAGRS

[VR Bass]

> This begs the question: what are the components and steps necessary 
> to make a conversion from gas to coal?

Boiler and smokebox, exhaust nozzle, feedwater pump(s). Did I forget 
anything? I'm not sure Ruby has room for a sufficient firebox between her 
frames, though one as long as my dummy one might possibly generate 
enough heat.

regards,
  -vance-

Vance Bass
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass 

Re: Coal fired BAGRS

[Clark Lord]

John Shawe makes a new locomotive style boiler that fits into the old
space.  He does not use the original boiler.  He does reuse the fittings
such as the water glass, safety valves, throttle controls.  He adds a
blower control if needed and rebuilds the rear frame to accommodate the
locomotive style boiler's fire box and grate.  Of course the front of
the tender needs to be cut out so you have a space for unburned coal. 
It's really quite a job.  And he does charge a tidy amount for that
service.  But if you want a coal fired Aster Mikado, John's your man.

Clark

Dave Cole wrote:
> 
> At 11:28 AM -0700 5/1/01, Shyvers, Steve wrote:
> >Now who will pick up the challenge and make a coal-fired Ruby?
> 
> This begs the question: what are the components and steps necessary
> to make a conversion from gas to coal?
> 
> Have the conversions John Shawe has made been from gas or alcohol?
> 
> Or was Steve joking? ;-) ...
> 
> \dmc
> 
> --
> ^^^
> Dave Cole
> Gen'l Sup't:  Grand Teton & Everglades Steam Excursion Co.
>Pacifica, Calif. USA  
> List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers
>
> Editor:   TRELLIS & TRESTLE, the newsletter of the
>Bay Area Garden Railway Society 
>
> Webconductor: Pacific Coast Live Steamers 
>
> ^^^ 

Re: Coal fired BAGRS

[Jim Curry]

Dave:

John Shaw makes a new locomotive style boiler so the original fuel source is
not material to the converted engine.  Major issues are space between or
above the frames for the firebox/ashpan.  From there he needs some new
plumbing for a blower and nozzle and in many cases he puts an axle pump on.
There's no reason the Rube couldn't continue with the Goodall type injection
system that people are using now.

Jim
 

RE: Coal fired BAGRS

[Dave Cole]

At 11:28 AM -0700 5/1/01, Shyvers, Steve wrote:
>Now who will pick up the challenge and make a coal-fired Ruby?

This begs the question: what are the components and steps necessary 
to make a conversion from gas to coal?

Have the conversions John Shawe has made been from gas or alcohol?

Or was Steve joking? ;-) ...

\dmc

-- 
^^^
Dave Cole
Gen'l Sup't:  Grand Teton & Everglades Steam Excursion Co.
   Pacifica, Calif. USA  
List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers
   
Editor:   TRELLIS & TRESTLE, the newsletter of the
   Bay Area Garden Railway Society 
   
Webconductor: Pacific Coast Live Steamers 
   
^^^ 

RE: Coal fired BAGRS

[Shyvers, Steve]

Jim and the list:

Yes! Congratulations to John! He absolutely must share the details about how
he did it.

Now who will pick up the challenge and make a coal-fired Ruby?

Steve 

Re: Coal fired BAGRS

[trotfox]

Now you guys just have to help me convince him to make a bear-trap stack
to catch all the cinders that it spews during operation!

Makes fer some purty farworks!  {:]

Trot, the slightly-singed, fox...

On Tue, 1 May 2001, VR Bass wrote:

> Congratulations, John!  Now, tell us how you got it to breathe.  When I was
> there a month or so ago, John and Landon and I brainstormed about why
> John's boiler was so short of breath, and how he might modify it.  I'd love to
> hear what it took.  Homebrewed coal-fired boilers are pretty rare beasts, so
> probably we can all learn from John's experiments.  John, a report please?
>
> -vance-


 /\_/\TrotFox\ Always remember,
( o o )  AKA Landon Solomon   \ "There is a
 >\./< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
 

Re: Coal fired BAGRS

[VR Bass]

Congratulations, John!  Now, tell us how you got it to breathe.  When I was 
there a month or so ago, John and Landon and I brainstormed about why 
John's boiler was so short of breath, and how he might modify it.  I'd love to 
hear what it took.  Homebrewed coal-fired boilers are pretty rare beasts, so 
probably we can all learn from John's experiments.  John, a report please?

-vance-

"Another day goes by in the time machine.  
I'm breaking my brain over what it might mean
just to claim the time and turn away
and make today today."  --James Taylor 

Re: Coal fired BAGRS

[Terry Griner]

Jim,
  Send John my compliments! and please ask when he plans to write it up for Steam in 
the Garden! I have loved his other mods, and am planning to do a few.
Terry Griner
Columbus Ohio USA
 Only 3 days until I go to St Louis!!


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/01/01 12:37PM >>>
Will miracles never cease!  The Dallas branch of the HSSLS met in Mesquite, 
Texas this past weekend under clear Texas skies.  

A number of interesting folks were there including "Trotfox" with his 
diminishing "Ruby" and Lego stationary steam engine.  There were about a 
dozen steamers (folks) and about 16 steamers (engines).  As usual there had 
to be at least one engine which was field stripped -- Caleb never got his new 
"Reno" to run at Diamondhead BUT under the watchful eyes and hands of several 
interested parties it perked up and ran like a champ.  ALCOHOL (Yep, the 
stuff Kevin O preaches about regularly) was the problem.  You just can't get 
a high quality engine to run on low test alcohol. (Thanks to Dan Fuller for 
sharing his good stuff!)

An AWNUTS train pulled by Jim Crabb's "Sammie" and Bill C's coal fired SR24 
are staples; as well as several Roundhouse engines owned by Rob Cooley and a 
super Aster kit built by Ed Hume. But what really took the prize was --

(drum roll please) -

John Thomson's COAL FIRED BAGRS engine.  As you know if you read SitG, John 
has published over 25 mods for this modest little engine.  Saturday he showed 
off his greatest accomplishment with his normal modesty.  This little 
vertical-boiler engine built up a head of steam (using the recently purchased 
Welsh coal imported from the UK) and moved around the track in a highly 
dignified manner.  There was great applause!  The only challenge left is to 
keep enough water in the boiler.  Any coal firing steamer will attest to the 
fact -- they use lots of water.

Jim Crabb
Seabrook 

Coal fired BAGRS

[SALTYCRABB]

Will miracles never cease!  The Dallas branch of the HSSLS met in Mesquite, 
Texas this past weekend under clear Texas skies.  

A number of interesting folks were there including "Trotfox" with his 
diminishing "Ruby" and lego stationary steam engine.  There were about a 
dozen steamers (folks) and about 16 steamers (engines).  As usual there had 
to be at least one engine which was field stripped -- Caleb never got his new 
"Reno" to run at Diamondhead BUT under the watchful eyes and hands of several 
interested parties it perked up and ran like a champ.  ALCOHOL (yep, the 
stuff Kevin O preaches about regularly) was the problem.  You just can't get 
a high quality engine to run on low test alcohol. (Thanks to Dan Fuller for 
sharing his good stuff!)

An AWNUTS train pulled by Jim Crabb's "Sammie" and Bill C's coal fired SR24 
are staples; as well as several Roundhouse engines owned by Rob Cooley and a 
super Aster kit built by Ed Hume. But what really took the prize was --

(drum roll please) -

John Thomson's COAL FIRED BAGRS engine.  As you know if you read SitG, John 
has published over 25 mods for this modest little engine.  Saturday he showed 
off his greatest accomplishment with his normal modesty.  This little 
vertical-boiler engine built up a head of steam (using the recently purchased 
Welsh coal imported from the UK) and moved around the track in a highly 
dignified manner.  There was great applause!  The only challenge left is to 
keep enough water in the boiler.  Any coal firing steamer will attest to the 
fact -- they use lots of water.

Jim Crabb
Seabrook