date:20100306

Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)

2010-03-06 Thread Pedro Melo

Hi,

On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:01 AM, Evgeniy Khramtsov xramt...@gmail.com wrote:
 There is already STUN support in ejabberd :P
 For me it is unclear why we need another way to discover client's public ip,
 that's why I'm asking

Because I already have a XMPP stack, and if I can get away without
having to include a TURN stack, thats a win on my book.

Besides, this is a trivial XEP. The C2S already has your IP address,
so its easier to ask your server for it.

Bye,
-- 
Pedro Melo
http://www.simplicidade.org/
xmpp:m...@simplicidade.org
mailto:m...@simplicidade.org

Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)

2010-03-06 Thread Hannes Tschofenig


FYI: STUN and TURN are two separate mechanisms.

What are the requirements for the client when Jingle is used?

Pedro Melo wrote:

Hi,

On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:01 AM, Evgeniy Khramtsov xramt...@gmail.com wrote:
  

There is already STUN support in ejabberd :P
For me it is unclear why we need another way to discover client's public ip,
that's why I'm asking



Because I already have a XMPP stack, and if I can get away without
having to include a TURN stack, thats a win on my book.

Besides, this is a trivial XEP. The C2S already has your IP address,
so its easier to ask your server for it.

Bye,

Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)

2010-03-06 Thread Pedro Melo

Hi,

On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Hannes Tschofenig
hannes.tschofe...@gmx.net wrote:
 FYI: STUN and TURN are two separate mechanisms.

I meant STUN, sorry.

Bye,
-- 
Pedro Melo
http://www.simplicidade.org/
xmpp:m...@simplicidade.org
mailto:m...@simplicidade.org

Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)

2010-03-06 Thread Justin Karneges

On Saturday 06 March 2010 01:33:25 Pedro Melo wrote:
 On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:01 AM, Evgeniy Khramtsov xramt...@gmail.com 
wrote:
  There is already STUN support in ejabberd :P
  For me it is unclear why we need another way to discover client's public
  ip, that's why I'm asking

 Because I already have a XMPP stack, and if I can get away without
 having to include a [STUN] stack, thats a win on my book.

I don't think obtaining your external IP address alone is all that useful 
anymore.  Years ago, I could have seen it being an aid to those who were port 
forwarding (e.g. with XEP-65), and back then even I was strongly desiring 
such an extension.  That's how the earlier protocols like ICQ and AIM worked, 
too, so it made sense to want to mirror the state of the art.

However, these days I'm starting to think that all of our p2p activity should 
be UDP-based and/or configurationless, and that port-forwarding is a concept 
from the stone age.  Google has it right.

-Justin

Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)

2010-03-06 Thread Matthew Wild

On 6 March 2010 18:12, Justin Karneges
justin-keyword-jabber.093...@affinix.com wrote:
 On Saturday 06 March 2010 01:33:25 Pedro Melo wrote:
 On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:01 AM, Evgeniy Khramtsov xramt...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  There is already STUN support in ejabberd :P
  For me it is unclear why we need another way to discover client's public
  ip, that's why I'm asking

 Because I already have a XMPP stack, and if I can get away without
 having to include a [STUN] stack, thats a win on my book.

 I don't think obtaining your external IP address alone is all that useful
 anymore.  Years ago, I could have seen it being an aid to those who were port
 forwarding (e.g. with XEP-65), and back then even I was strongly desiring
 such an extension.  That's how the earlier protocols like ICQ and AIM worked,
 too, so it made sense to want to mirror the state of the art.


I don't feel that any of these amount to an argument to not accept and
publish the XEP. People want this, it's trivial to do, we should
standardize a way of doing it. Done.

Now this XEP isn't telling people not to use STUN, TURN, UDP or
Jingle... it's for the people who don't want or need to use those
technologies (perhaps for the moment). I don't feel we should be
limiting what people want to do with XMPP, or how they should build
their applications.

Matthew

Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)

2010-03-06 Thread Kurt Zeilenga

As noted in the XEP, the server actually returns what it perceives to be the 
client's IP address.

What the security considerations miss is that doing so may unintentionally 
cause disclose information about the network information the server operates in.

Server operators likely don't want to enable this if their server sits behind a 
reverse NAT (or some sort of ALG/proxy) as it would disclose the inside IP 
address of that reverse NAT.  Even if that isn't a security consider for the 
server operator, that IP address is likely not what the client wanted.

-- Kurt

On Mar 5, 2010, at 10:53 AM, XMPP Extensions Editor wrote:

 Version 0.1 of XEP-0279 (Server IP Check) has been released.
 
 Abstract: This specification defines a simple XMPP extension that enables a 
 client to discover its external IP address.
 
 Changelog: Initial published version. (psa)
 
 Diff: N/A
 
 URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0279.html

[Standards] Comments on SIFT

2010-03-06 Thread Waqas Hussain

While implementing mod_sift for Prosody, I saw some possibilities for
improvement and had thoughts about issues. Some of these follow.


1. Remove disallowed child elements for filtered messages and presence.

Here's a typical identi.ca message:

  message from=upd...@identi.ca/xmpp001daemon to=wa...@jaim.at type=chat
  bodyevan: RT @sil doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for
dad can't read the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I
have no USB ... [23931040]/body
  html xmlns=http://jabber.org/protocol/xhtml-im;
  body xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml;
  : RT @doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for dad can't read
the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I have no USB
...
  a href=http://identi.ca/evan;evan/a
  span class=vcard
  a title=Stuart Langridge class=url href=http://identi.ca/user/279;
  span class=fn nicknamesil/span
  /a
  /span
  a 
href=http://identi.ca/conversation/24011046#notice-23931040;[23931040]/a
  /body
  /html
  entry xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom;
  source
  titleevan - Identi.ca/title
  link href=http://identi.ca/evan; /
  link rel=self type=application/atom+xml href=http://identi.ca/evan; /
  link rel=license href=http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/; /
  iconhttp://avatar.identi.ca/1-96-20090819204503.jpeg/icon
  /source
  titleRT @sil doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for dad
can't read the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I
have no USB .../title
  author
  nameevan/name
  urihttp://identi.ca/user/1/uri
  /author
  actor xmlns=http://activitystrea.ms/spec/1.0/;
  object-typehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/person/object-type
  id xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom;http://identi.ca/user/1/id
  title xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom;Evan Prodromou/title
  link rel=alternate type=text/html href=http://identi.ca/evan;
xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; /
  link rel=avatar type=image/jpeg
xmlns:ns1=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns1:height=353
xmlns:ns2=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns2:width=353
href=http://avatar.identi.ca/1-353-20090819204502.jpeg;
xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; /
  link rel=avatar type=image/jpeg
xmlns:ns1=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns1:height=96
xmlns:ns2=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns2:width=96
href=http://avatar.identi.ca/1-96-20090819204503.jpeg;
xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; /
  link rel=avatar type=image/jpeg
xmlns:ns1=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns1:height=48
xmlns:ns2=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns2:width=48
href=http://avatar.identi.ca/1-48-20090819204503.jpeg;
xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; /
  link rel=avatar type=image/jpeg
xmlns:ns1=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns1:height=24
xmlns:ns2=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns2:width=24
href=http://avatar.identi.ca/1-24-20090819204503.jpeg;
xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; /
  point xmlns=http://www.georss.org/georss;45.5088375 -73.587809/point
  preferredUsername
xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0;evan/preferredUsername
  displayName xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0;Evan
Prodromou/displayName
  note xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0;Montreal hacker
and entrepreneur. Founder of identi.ca, lead developer of StatusNet,
CEO of StatusNet Inc./note
  address xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0;
  formattedMontreal, Quebec, Canada/formatted
  /address
  urls xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0;
  typehomepage/type
  valuehttp://evan.prodromou.name//value
  primarytrue/primary
  /urls
  /actor
  link rel=alternate type=text/html
href=http://identi.ca/notice/23931040; /
  idhttp://identi.ca/notice/23931040/id
  published2010-03-06T20:01:22+00:00/published
  updated2010-03-06T20:01:22+00:00/updated
  link rel=ostatus:conversation
href=http://identi.ca/conversation/24011046; /
  forward ref=http://identi.ca/notice/23928915;
href=http://identi.ca/notice/23928915;
xmlns=http://ostatus.org/schema/1.0; /
  content type=htmlRT @span class=vcarda
href=http://identi.ca/user/279; class=url title=Stuart
Langridgespan class=fn nicknamesil/span/a/span doom. the
Shuttle computer I'm setting up for dad can't read the hard drive.
Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I have no USB .../content
  /entry
  /message

Look at the size of that. Should I laugh or cry?  This should be reduced to:

  message from=upd...@identi.ca/xmpp001daemon to=wa...@jaim.at type=chat
  bodyevan: RT @sil doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for
dad can't read the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I
have no USB ... [23931040]/body
  /message

for mobile clients. That's roughly 6% of the original (~4,257 bytes
reduced to ~262 bytes). I think without this behavior, message
filtering is pretty useless.

Useless fact: Watching offline messages from identi.ca using up
bandwidth in slow motion (slow, expensive GPRS with payment based on
bandwidth usage) is what got mod_sift for Prosody started.


2. Offline messages.

A SIFT

Re: [Standards] Comments on SIFT

2010-03-06 Thread Jason


interesting - I've built a variation on this for offline messages,
but allowing quite complex allow criteria. I couldnt make xmpp do it 
(I'm not saying xmpp couldnt, but just that I couldnt figure out how) as 
my case seemed to require altered routing rules and a few other issues 
surrounding my frequent, but momentary presence requirement, so I ended 
up just using xmpp as a transport.


Cheers.



Waqas Hussain wrote:

While implementing mod_sift for Prosody, I saw some possibilities for
improvement and had thoughts about issues. Some of these follow.


1. Remove disallowed child elements for filtered messages and presence.

Here's a typical identi.ca message:

  message from=upd...@identi.ca/xmpp001daemon to=wa...@jaim.at type=chat
  bodyevan: RT @sil doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for
dad can't read the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I
have no USB ... [23931040]/body
  html xmlns=http://jabber.org/protocol/xhtml-im;
  body xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml;
  : RT @doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for dad can't read
the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I have no USB
...
  a href=http://identi.ca/evan;evan/a
  span class=vcard
  a title=Stuart Langridge class=url href=http://identi.ca/user/279;
  span class=fn nicknamesil/span
  /a
  /span
  a 
href=http://identi.ca/conversation/24011046#notice-23931040;[23931040]/a
  /body
  /html
  entry xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom;
  source
  titleevan - Identi.ca/title
  link href=http://identi.ca/evan; /
  link rel=self type=application/atom+xml href=http://identi.ca/evan; /
  link rel=license href=http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/; /
  iconhttp://avatar.identi.ca/1-96-20090819204503.jpeg/icon
  /source
  titleRT @sil doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for dad
can't read the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I
have no USB .../title
  author
  nameevan/name
  urihttp://identi.ca/user/1/uri
  /author
  actor xmlns=http://activitystrea.ms/spec/1.0/;
  object-typehttp://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/person/object-type
  id xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom;http://identi.ca/user/1/id
  title xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom;Evan Prodromou/title
  link rel=alternate type=text/html href=http://identi.ca/evan;
xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; /
  link rel=avatar type=image/jpeg
xmlns:ns1=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns1:height=353
xmlns:ns2=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns2:width=353
href=http://avatar.identi.ca/1-353-20090819204502.jpeg;
xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; /
  link rel=avatar type=image/jpeg
xmlns:ns1=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns1:height=96
xmlns:ns2=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns2:width=96
href=http://avatar.identi.ca/1-96-20090819204503.jpeg;
xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; /
  link rel=avatar type=image/jpeg
xmlns:ns1=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns1:height=48
xmlns:ns2=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns2:width=48
href=http://avatar.identi.ca/1-48-20090819204503.jpeg;
xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; /
  link rel=avatar type=image/jpeg
xmlns:ns1=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns1:height=24
xmlns:ns2=http://purl.org/syndication/atommedia; ns2:width=24
href=http://avatar.identi.ca/1-24-20090819204503.jpeg;
xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom; /
  point xmlns=http://www.georss.org/georss;45.5088375 -73.587809/point
  preferredUsername
xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0;evan/preferredUsername
  displayName xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0;Evan
Prodromou/displayName
  note xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0;Montreal hacker
and entrepreneur. Founder of identi.ca, lead developer of StatusNet,
CEO of StatusNet Inc./note
  address xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0;
  formattedMontreal, Quebec, Canada/formatted
  /address
  urls xmlns=http://portablecontacts.net/spec/1.0;
  typehomepage/type
  valuehttp://evan.prodromou.name//value
  primarytrue/primary
  /urls
  /actor
  link rel=alternate type=text/html
href=http://identi.ca/notice/23931040; /
  idhttp://identi.ca/notice/23931040/id
  published2010-03-06T20:01:22+00:00/published
  updated2010-03-06T20:01:22+00:00/updated
  link rel=ostatus:conversation
href=http://identi.ca/conversation/24011046; /
  forward ref=http://identi.ca/notice/23928915;
href=http://identi.ca/notice/23928915;
xmlns=http://ostatus.org/schema/1.0; /
  content type=htmlRT @span class=vcarda
href=http://identi.ca/user/279; class=url title=Stuart
Langridgespan class=fn nicknamesil/span/a/span doom. the
Shuttle computer I'm setting up for dad can't read the hard drive.
Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I have no USB .../content
  /entry
  /message

Look at the size of that. Should I laugh or cry?  This should be reduced to:

  message from=upd...@identi.ca/xmpp001daemon to=wa...@jaim.at type=chat
  bodyevan: RT @sil doom. the Shuttle computer I'm setting up for
dad can't read the hard drive. Won't boot from USB, has no CD drive, I
have

Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)

Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)

Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)

Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)

Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)

Re: [Standards] NEW: XEP-0279 (Server IP Check)

[Standards] Comments on SIFT

Re: [Standards] Comments on SIFT

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