Re: [Standards] [Members] IETF 89 and the XMPP WG meeting - are you going?

2014-02-19 Thread Mike Taylor
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*bump*

please do add your name to the wiki page noted below so we can figure
things out *before* the event.

On 02/12/2014 12:39 PM, Mike Taylor wrote:
 IETF 89 is approaching and the XMPP Working Group is scheduled to
 meet - see http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/IETF_89 for details.
 
 The importance of the XMPP WG is that quite a few XMPP related 
 technologies are now also IETF drafts and they need activity and 
 discussion so they can move forward to be considered IETF
 documents.
 
 The Working Group is where all of this activity takes place and it 
 really helps the process when XMPP folk are participating.
 
 The London WG meeting is a great opportunity for new (and old)
 members to come, help and participate - to that end I created the
 above wiki page to help get a feel for who can attend. The board is
 also considering helping defray some of the costs but we need a
 better feel for how many people are going (or would go) so we can
 decide.
 
 Please do list your name on the wiki page if you are going so we
 can start getting organized for this.
 
 thanks
 

- -- 

bear
xmpp agitator; ops curmudgeon; generalist
http://bear.im/about
http://bear.im/pubkey.txt
0A93 9BA7 8203 FCBC 58A9 E8B5 9D1E 0661 8EE5 B4D8
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[Standards] IETF 89 and the XMPP WG meeting - are you going?

2014-02-12 Thread Mike Taylor
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Hash: SHA1

IETF 89 is approaching and the XMPP Working Group is scheduled to meet
- - see http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/IETF_89 for details.

The importance of the XMPP WG is that quite a few XMPP related
technologies are now also IETF drafts and they need activity and
discussion so they can move forward to be considered IETF documents.

The Working Group is where all of this activity takes place and it
really helps the process when XMPP folk are participating.

The London WG meeting is a great opportunity for new (and old) members
to come, help and participate - to that end I created the above wiki
page to help get a feel for who can attend. The board is also
considering helping defray some of the costs but we need a better feel
for how many people are going (or would go) so we can decide.

Please do list your name on the wiki page if you are going so we can
start getting organized for this.

thanks
- -- 

bear
xmpp agitator; ops curmudgeon; generalist
http://bear.im/about
http://bear.im/pubkey.txt
0A93 9BA7 8203 FCBC 58A9 E8B5 9D1E 0661 8EE5 B4D8
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Re: [Standards] Event Logging over XMPP

2013-11-10 Thread Mike Taylor
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On 11/10/2013 09:34 AM, Markus Kohlhase wrote:
 Anybody objects if I write a XEP proposal about this?
 no, absolutely not! Markus
 
Please do and count me in if you need help with this!

- -- 

bear
xmpp agitator; ops curmudgeon; generalist
http://bear.im/about
http://bear.im/pubkey.txt
0A93 9BA7 8203 FCBC 58A9 E8B5 9D1E 0661 8EE5 B4D8
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Re: [Standards] Event Logging over XMPP

2013-11-10 Thread Mike Taylor
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On 11/10/2013 11:26 AM, Yusuke DOI wrote:
 Peter,
 
 (2013-11-11 0:43), Peter Waher wrote:
 
 XML has many features that are very nice: Plugability and
 versioning using namespaces, validation (schema), swearch (xpath)
 and transformations/conversions (xslt).
 
 I don't think it's beneficial to start JSON vs. XMPP discussion
 here. If we want to hand logs to JSON-based systems, this doesn't
 mean we should use JSON as-is. For example, we can still use
 JSON-ish XML instead. In the case, if we use complex namespace and
 XML-ish versioning, XML-JSON binding may become broken.
 
 What I would like to clarify is use cases.

fortunately I don't think we need to go down that dragon strewn path
as we can now just put xmpp-ftw or stanza.io into the mix.

 
 'logging' is a too broad word I think. What framework/logging 
 facilities in your mind?
 
 I was thinking of network/admin logging, for instance like or
 based on Syslog semantics (also IETF). Could be used to log
 events of interest to system administrators, network architects,
 etc. Can also be used to find problems or learn how IoT networks
 based on XMPP work.
 
 Then, I guess netconf/netmod(YANG) and SNMP will be a first
 choices. FYI, as IoT-related disucussion there are proposal on
 CoAP-based management interface (not adopted by IETF yet).
 
 http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/core/current/msg05102.html
 

The realm of logging appears to be broadly divided into two camps; the
folks who live in the structured realm of SNMP type log generation and
the others who sling text and/or JSON at a receiving entity.

I am mainly interested in using XMPP as a transport so am not to
worried about maintaining a strict XML structure but I can see how
that would be beneficial to have. This means we would need to identify
a core set of elements as MUST with the rest being optional.


- -- 

bear
xmpp agitator; ops curmudgeon; generalist
http://bear.im/about
http://bear.im/pubkey.txt
0A93 9BA7 8203 FCBC 58A9 E8B5 9D1E 0661 8EE5 B4D8
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Re: [Standards] Proposal: Event logging over XMPP

2013-11-10 Thread Mike Taylor
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On 11/10/2013 02:58 PM, Steffen Larsen wrote:
 Hi Peter,
 
 First of all great work and perfect to bring this up.. I’ve done
 this a while now, but haven’t brought it to a broader audience.
 thumbs up!

indeed, good job and +1 for this

 So here is my first 50 cent on the doc:
 
 Cool stuff with the tags.. This I can tel you will be valuable for
 many people. I use these kind of tags all the time to piggy back
 stuff, that could be valuable in the context.
 
 I don’t like the tag “event”. I think it should be log tag
 instead, no to confuse anybody. I have made several custom XMPP
 components and client where they have event tag embedded, which
 have a completely different meaning and context.

I also think that event is a bit too broad of a term here and would
prefer log or even eventlog

 
 Type and Level? I think its too complicated. Only level should be 
 present and with fewer clases.. Debug, Info, Notice… is way too
 much. People tend to misuse and not think when they have a lot of
 choices. :-)

I also think that this may be too many options and would prefer to see
Level limited to a smaller set and have Type removed completely as it
could be implemented as Tags.

I do love that you've chosen to use words instead of numbers to
represent the levels.

Another item I wanted to bring up is can we just remove timezone
worries completely and say use UTC and only UTC? IMO it is a best
practice and would avoid the whole TZ issue (yea, yea, I know this one
is going to be a long shot ;)

thanks!

 
 -Cheers! /Steffen
 
 On 10 Nov 2013, at 20:31, Peter Waher peter.wa...@clayster.com 
 mailto:peter.wa...@clayster.com wrote:
 
 Hello all
 
 First of all: Thank you to everybody providing both input and an 
 interest. It is clear the need for an extension in this area is 
 missing and both wanted and needed.
 
 So I took the opportunity to write a first proposal based on all
 your comments and on our past experience as well, on how such an
 event logging extension could look like (attached). I’ve made
 sure Syslog events can be mapped onto such event log messages
 (being a standard and all), but extended it a bit to provide for
 things lacking in Syslog as well as adapting it to the world of
 XML where new possibilities exist.
 
 The extension is made so that it can be used both by those who
 only want to send simple text events and by those who want to
 have a more controlled way of sending data (including data and
 types). Hopefully this is a good compromise. But as with all
 compromises, it has the possibility to offend people in both
 camps…
 
 What do you think? If you have any questions, comments or
 suggestions please don’t hesitate to mail them.
 
 Best regards, Peter Waher
 
 xep--EventLog.html
 


- -- 

bear
xmpp agitator; ops curmudgeon; generalist
http://bear.im/about
http://bear.im/pubkey.txt
0A93 9BA7 8203 FCBC 58A9 E8B5 9D1E 0661 8EE5 B4D8
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Re: [Standards] Event Logging over XMPP

2013-11-09 Thread Mike Taylor
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Hash: SHA1

On 11/09/2013 03:13 PM, Robert Kosten wrote:
 Hi, a Lurker here ;-)
 
 I've had the same thought about two years ago as well so I
 implemented a small Monolog (PHP Logging Library) Handler that sent
 log messages as both formatted message (for standard chat clients)
 and a custom stanza for our status board. At the time I thought
 that pub/sub might actually be better though, because I didn't
 really want the logger to know who would receive the message...
 
 Sadly that code belongs to a former company and I'm not certain I
 can remember everything about it (It was a quick'n'dirty
 solution), otherwise I'd attach it :-P
 
 Regards, Robert Kosten
 
 On 11/09/2013 09:08 PM, Steffen Larsen wrote:
 No haven’t seen such a XEP, but I’ve implemented something like
 it to be able to remote debug set-top boxes etc. I’ve just did a
 dumb implementation based on message stanzas, where the client
 can send the log to diff. implementations like console, remote
 (xmpp), file etc. with different levels.
 
 So I am interested as well. :-)


I could see this happening by wrapping the protocol that Logstash uses.

 
 /Steffen
 
 On 09 Nov 2013, at 19:30, Matthew Wild mwi...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On 9 November 2013 18:24, Peter Waher
 peter.wa...@clayster.com wrote:
 Hello
 
 Is anybody aware of event logging extensions for XMPP? XEP
 0163, 207 and 316 all relate to publish/subscript (personal)
 events as I can see. What I’m looking for is system and
 network events for system administrators, like Syslog, for
 instance, but over XMPP.
 
 No, but I have wished for such a XEP before now. I'd love to
 see a simple one that primarily defines a way to transport log
 messages over XMPP (perhaps re-using syslog semantics).
 
 Regards, Matthew
 


- -- 

bear
xmpp agitator; ops curmudgeon; generalist
http://bear.im/about
http://bear.im/pubkey.txt
0A93 9BA7 8203 FCBC 58A9 E8B5 9D1E 0661 8EE5 B4D8
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Re: [Standards] jabber-id email header

2013-09-19 Thread Mike Taylor
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Hash: SHA1

On 09/19/2013 10:44 PM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
 Back in 2007 we defined an email header for advertising your Jabber
 ID in your email messages:
 
 http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-saintandre-jabberid-08.txt
 
 For various reasons we never got this header registered with IANA,
 but on re-reading RFC 3864 I've concluded that we could add it to
 the provisional register through a XEP instead of an RFC.
 
 Is there still interest in registering this header?

I'm +1 for this because it will make sense when we start using our JID
as an identity marker.

 
 Peter
 
 

- -- 

bear
xmpp agitator; ops curmudgeon; generalist
http://bear.im/about
http://bear.im/pubkey.txt
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Re: [Standards] Fwd: Re: [cryptography] Is it just me or is this fundamentally broken?

2013-03-05 Thread Mike Taylor
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Hash: SHA1

On 03/05/2013 12:04 PM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
 I would like to suggest that we change XEP-0027 from Active to 
 Deprecated (and then Obsolete). The technology is no longer in
 wide use, and it has so many problems that I don't think we want
 to actively suggest that people implement it.
 

+1 for being proactive at clearing out older (and unwise) info


 Peter
 
 
  Original Message  Subject: Re: [cryptography] Is
 it just me or is this fundamentally broken? Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013
 18:24:46 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre stpe...@stpeter.im To:
 Peter Gutmann pgut...@cs.auckland.ac.nz CC:
 cryptogra...@randombit.net
 
 On 3/4/13 4:42 PM, Peter Gutmann wrote:
 Quoting http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0027.html#signing:
 
 Signing enables a sender to verify that they sent a certain block
  of text. [...] The text that is signed MAY be the empty string.
 
 (There's no metadata or anything there, just a raw signature).
 
 No one uses XEP-0027 these days, they all use OTR. The PGP
 integration with XMPP clients was an early experiment in the Jabber
 community before we even called it XMPP. Think 13+ years ago. But
 clients never signed empty strings, although we never fixed the
 spec because no one was using the technology. I'll push to make the
 spec Obsolete.
 
 Peter
 
 ___ cryptography
 mailing list cryptogra...@randombit.net 
 http://lists.randombit.net/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
 
 
 

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bear
xmpp agitator; ops curmudgeon; generalist
http://bear.im/about
http://bear.im/pubkey.txt
0A93 9BA7 8203 FCBC 58A9 E8B5 9D1E 0661 8EE5 B4D8
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