https://logs.xmpp.org/council/2020-10-14?p=h#2020-10-14-96797efc60b25a8e
1) Roll Call Present: Georg, Zash, Jonas, Daniel, Dave 2) Agenda Bashing Jonas has a few amendments, in view of [1]. 3) Editor's Update * Accepted XEP-0393 (Message Styling) as Draft * Accepted XEP-0444 (Message Reactions) as Experimental 4a) Last Call: XEP-0443 (Compliance Suites 2020) - https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0443.html Jonas expects that calling this so near the end of the current Council will at least allow for valuable feedback so the next council can advance it quickly. Daniel promised to add the A/V section, but that's not blocking, and the author, Georg, would like to hear more voices (no pun intended.) Zash thinks this being in Standards Track is weird - Georg thinks it's for historical reasons, but likes that it gives the full Standards process. Dave is a little concerned that this might not be very useful without Community input - Jonas and Georg think that's the entire point of the LC - Dave thinks that while that's true, it's a desperate last attempt. Georg: +1 Jonas: +1 Zash: +1 Daniel: +1 Dave: +1 4b) Decide whether to CFE XEP-0363 (HTTP File Upload) or fix/replace XEP-0066 (Out of Band Data) A CFE doesn't normally require authorisation by Council, but some would like to discuss integration with OOB first. Dave notes that the CFE doesn't require his input beforehand, and is happy to give that input on-list during the CFE. Jonas notes that there was some controversy and would like to avoid unnecessary calls, so if Dave will be strongly against advancing 0363 as is, it's better to resolve that beforehand. Dave would like to see what the community has to say about it first. Daniel suggests the Editor can just start the CFE, and if anything additional comes up then it can all be addressed in one go - Jonas feels that's the consensus. Georg would like to see an XEP that defines the intended use of OOB for inline media - Daniel would like to avoid yet another XEP if 0066 can easily be fixed/clarified. Georg doesn't expect it really can be fixed, but a section could be added which outlines the use of OOB for inline media. Zash suggests fixing XEP-0385 (Stateless Inline Media Sharing (SIMS)) as an alternative - Georg agrees that would be ideal, but implementers are already using OOB; not much can be done about that, but it can at least be documented. Jonas moves the rest of this stimulating discussion to AOB. 4c) Advance XEP-0411 (Bookmarks Conversion) - https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0411.html Daniel notes that nobody objected to his feedback [2]. Jonas: +1 Zash: +1 Georg: +1 Dave: +1 Daniel: +1 Jonas is fine with advancing this, but thinks it should definitely be deprecated in the not too distant future. Georg notes that it's part of the current Compliance Suites. Zash thinks it makes sense for transition mechanisms to be short-lived and then obsoleted once they've served their purpose. 4d) Advance XEP-0292 (vCard4 over XMPP) - https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0292.html This was Last Called during the previous council, but not advanced. Jonas notes this is formally in Deferred, which the Editor will clean up, so there's nothing to vote on. The author has been pinged, so hopefully that will move things forward. 4e) Advance XEP-0352 (Client State Indication) - https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0352.html Already accepted [3]. 4f) Advance XEP-0353 (Jingle Message Initiation) - https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0353.html This was also not advanced by the previous council; Editor will do the necessary tidying. 4g) MR #22 (XEP-0308: modernize LMC sending) - https://gitlab.com/xsf/xeps/-/merge_requests/22 Vote restarted after appropriate modifications were made. Daniel: +1 Dave: +1 (this looks clearer) Jonas: +1 Georg: +1 (of course) Zash: +1 Dave thinks this matches reality, though isn't fond of the warning as it doesn't feel like great UX - Zash says UX suggestions aren't normative. 5) Pending Votes Jonas adds his +1 to PR #988, but says it needs editorial changes [4]; Georg also adds a +1 for when the editorial changes have been approved. 6) Date of Next 2020-10-21 1500 UTC 7a) AOB i: OOB vs SIMS vs …? Jonas asks whether this needs to be discussed in a meeting - Dave suggests taking it to the list; Jonas asks Dave to start a thread - Dave will once the CFE is under way. Daniel really doesn't want 0363 to be held up by SIMS - neither does anyone else. Georg doesn't really mind as long it's properly documented somewhere. Daniel volunteers to create a PR for XEP-0066 (right after he's done with the CS-2020 A/V section); Dave suspects that XEP-0266 (Codecs for Jingle Audio) and XEP-0299 (Codecs for Jingle Video) might also need updating. 7b) AOB ii: Elections Season! The Board and Council Elections have begun [5], although there is currently only one applicant - maybe Jonas shouldn't be allowed to rule the XSF with an iron fist - apply now! Georg wonders at what point Council must not start any new votes - Jonas thinks the last meeting should work, as this council has been quite good with not letting things expire; Dave notes that incomplete Last Calls will have to be restarted after a Council election - Jonas amends that to: two weeks before the last meeting for a full two-week vote, and four weeks before for a Last Call followed by a two-week vote. Georg suggest not starting any more LCs, then; a list of nice-to-LC XEPs can be passed to the next Council - Jonas says that list currently consists of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) and XEP-0390 (Entity Capabilities 2.0). Georg thinks 0313 is somewhat contested and isn't sure about implementations of 0390 - Jonas notes that MattJ requested waiting until his patches to 0313 were applied, but it hasn't yet been LC'ed. Daniel adds that Babbler [6] has an implementation of 0390. Georg needs to re-read 0390 to check whether it has sufficient provisions for server-side conversion and caching - disco#info requests seem to be the main (and most unneeded) reason for mobile device wake-up. Georg requests that somebody who remembers the security issues of Caps could write an (Informational) XEP on that. 8) Close Thanks Jonas, Tedd, everyone. [1] https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2020-October/037809.html [2] https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2020-September/037781.html [3] https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2020-August/037702.html [4] https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/988#issuecomment-707850648 [5] https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2020 [6] https://bitbucket.org/sco0ter/babbler/src/master/
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