Re: [Standards] How to handle send_last_published_items / on_sub_and_presence for PEP nodes?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 4/20/09 6:04 AM, Dave Cridland wrote: > On Mon Apr 20 12:43:02 2009, Jonathan Schleifer wrote: >> Wouldn't make it more sense to only get the PEP events of users who >> are online and get the last event of a user as soon as he signs in? >> IMO, this would make more sense and this is also how ejabberd handles >> it. > > Well, no, not really. > > Lots of "rich presence" states persist even when the user is offline. > The field, for instance, we can even set *when* we go offline, > and lots of clients (include Gajim) can make use of this. If I go > offline so I can, for example, play games, or because I've gone on > holiday, I think that my contacts should get the backdated PEP event > telling them so when I'm offline. > > And plenty of PEP items unrelated to online/offline state exist, too, so > to limit PEP to only cases when the contacts are online is simply broken. Right. The on_sub_and_presence setting relates to the *subscriber's* presence, not the *publisher's* presence. > So again, I'd say: > > 1) The spec says that you get PEP events for ALL contacts, online or not. > > 2) The spec doesn't say you get events for newly online contacts. Which is consistent with the meaning of on_sub_and_presence. I'll clarify this point further in XEP-0060 and XEP-0163. /psa - -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknsgREACgkQNL8k5A2w/vw5cQCgorITHZydzmOY+HvgYIPQs/Wj c/kAn1pcNpsJFmmaWBsY+xKtE4d3NJDT =O9vV -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Standards] How to handle send_last_published_items / on_sub_and_presence for PEP nodes?
Am 20.04.2009 um 14:04 schrieb Dave Cridland: Lots of "rich presence" states persist even when the user is offline. The field, for instance, we can even set *when* we go offline, and lots of clients (include Gajim) can make use of this. If I go offline so I can, for example, play games, or because I've gone on holiday, I think that my contacts should get the backdated PEP event telling them so when I'm offline. Makes sense. And plenty of PEP items unrelated to online/offline state exist, too, so to limit PEP to only cases when the contacts are online is simply broken. So again, I'd say: 1) The spec says that you get PEP events for ALL contacts, online or not. 2) The spec doesn't say you get events for newly online contacts. 3) Some client mistakenly rely on odd server behaviour, particular in the case of (2). We remove the PEP event when a user signs off because it would be inconsistent to what you'd get when you sign in again. You wouldn't get the PEP events of offline users then. But as we cleared now that this is an ejabberd bug, I'm happy to change that once ejabberd is fixed. 4) (1) and (2) are not only what the specification says, but also the desired behaviour. -- Jonathan PGP.sig Description: Signierter Teil der Nachricht
Re: [Standards] How to handle send_last_published_items / on_sub_and_presence for PEP nodes?
This is the point: ejabberd has changed its way of handling this (2.0.2 was doing right), and my guess is that this is not compliant to the specification. Furthermore, our BuddyMob service makes a big use of this (for example to get the last known geoloc of offline contacts). This also means that you never get the avatar of your offline contacts (as long as they stay offline). Jonathan Schleifer a écrit : Wouldn't make it more sense to only get the PEP events of users who are online and get the last event of a user as soon as he signs in? IMO, this would make more sense and this is also how ejabberd handles it. -- Jonathan begin:vcard fn:Vincent BARAT n:BARAT;Vincent org:UBIKOD adr:C.S. 30817;;11 rue du Clos Courtel;Rennes cedex 7;Bretagne;35708;France email;internet:vincent.ba...@ubikod.com title:Project Director tel;work:+33 (0)2.99.84.88.26 tel;fax:+33 (0)2.99.84.88.30 tel;cell:+33 (0)6.15.41.15.18 url:http://www.ubikod.com/ version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [Standards] How to handle send_last_published_items / on_sub_and_presence for PEP nodes?
On Mon Apr 20 12:43:02 2009, Jonathan Schleifer wrote: Wouldn't make it more sense to only get the PEP events of users who are online and get the last event of a user as soon as he signs in? IMO, this would make more sense and this is also how ejabberd handles it. Well, no, not really. Lots of "rich presence" states persist even when the user is offline. The field, for instance, we can even set *when* we go offline, and lots of clients (include Gajim) can make use of this. If I go offline so I can, for example, play games, or because I've gone on holiday, I think that my contacts should get the backdated PEP event telling them so when I'm offline. And plenty of PEP items unrelated to online/offline state exist, too, so to limit PEP to only cases when the contacts are online is simply broken. So again, I'd say: 1) The spec says that you get PEP events for ALL contacts, online or not. 2) The spec doesn't say you get events for newly online contacts. 3) Some client mistakenly rely on odd server behaviour, particular in the case of (2). 4) (1) and (2) are not only what the specification says, but also the desired behaviour. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:d...@cridland.net - xmpp:d...@dave.cridland.net - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade
Re: [Standards] How to handle send_last_published_items / on_sub_and_presence for PEP nodes?
Wouldn't make it more sense to only get the PEP events of users who are online and get the last event of a user as soon as he signs in? IMO, this would make more sense and this is also how ejabberd handles it. -- Jonathan PGP.sig Description: Signierter Teil der Nachricht
Re: [Standards] How to handle send_last_published_items / on_sub_and_presence for PEP nodes?
I fully agree. That's also my conclusion. Dave Cridland a écrit : FWIW, I looked through XEP-0060 section 9, and concluded that the correct behaviour appears to be: a) ALL contacts have a PEP service, which will send out last published events, whether or not the owner of that service is online or not. b) There is no mention of any resending of last events for when the owner comes online. However, Gajim (at least, and possibly other clients) appear to rely on different behaviour. Dave. begin:vcard fn:Vincent BARAT n:BARAT;Vincent org:UBIKOD adr:C.S. 30817;;11 rue du Clos Courtel;Rennes cedex 7;Bretagne;35708;France email;internet:vincent.ba...@ubikod.com title:Project Director tel;work:+33 (0)2.99.84.88.26 tel;fax:+33 (0)2.99.84.88.30 tel;cell:+33 (0)6.15.41.15.18 url:http://www.ubikod.com/ version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [Standards] How to handle send_last_published_items / on_sub_and_presence for PEP nodes?
On Mon Apr 20 10:00:33 2009, Vincent BARAT wrote: It appears that the specification of the handling of the send_last_published_items / on_sub_and_presence option (default option) on PEP nodes is not clear: people understand it in different ways. Coincidentally, I noticed this the other day while testing some PEP edge cases in our server, too. When a user become available, should he receive the last items published on all PEP nodes belonging to ALL of his contacts (provided he asked for them through his caps) or should he receive the last items published on all PEP nodes belonging to his CURRENTLY ONLINE contacts only? There's also a related issue. Gajim, at least, ignores PEP events for offline contacts. Foolish Gajim, because if the answer is "ALL", then it won't get a new event when the contact comes online - unless, mind, a contact coming online itself causes a rebroadcast of the last event. So, should a last_published rebroadcast happen when a resource for an account comes online, and (optionally) this is the only such resource? FWIW, I looked through XEP-0060 section 9, and concluded that the correct behaviour appears to be: a) ALL contacts have a PEP service, which will send out last published events, whether or not the owner of that service is online or not. b) There is no mention of any resending of last events for when the owner comes online. However, Gajim (at least, and possibly other clients) appear to rely on different behaviour. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:d...@cridland.net - xmpp:d...@dave.cridland.net - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade
[Standards] How to handle send_last_published_items / on_sub_and_presence for PEP nodes?
Hello, It appears that the specification of the handling of the send_last_published_items / on_sub_and_presence option (default option) on PEP nodes is not clear: people understand it in different ways. To clarify, I have one simple question: When a user become available, should he receive the last items published on all PEP nodes belonging to ALL of his contacts (provided he asked for them through his caps) or should he receive the last items published on all PEP nodes belonging to his CURRENTLY ONLINE contacts only? Thanks to clarify. begin:vcard fn:Vincent BARAT n:BARAT;Vincent org:UBIKOD adr:C.S. 30817;;11 rue du Clos Courtel;Rennes cedex 7;Bretagne;35708;France email;internet:vincent.ba...@ubikod.com title:Project Director tel;work:+33 (0)2.99.84.88.26 tel;fax:+33 (0)2.99.84.88.30 tel;cell:+33 (0)6.15.41.15.18 url:http://www.ubikod.com/ version:2.1 end:vcard
