WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE REMOVE THIS FOOL!
Brandon Goodin
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Subject: RE: Justifying Struts
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--- Begin Message ---
Ya I just started coding a project in PHP. I love the spaghetti code and
complete lack of structural rules :-D
Other such loves...
1) I love how there are no namespaces
2) I love the mish-mash of procedural and object oriented principals.
3) I love the lack of scope to store objects or basic string data in general
(no application scope, weak request scope, and, from #2, a procedural/oo
page scope that makes you wanna scream)
4) Loose (obsurdly) typing that can and DOES encourage crappy programming.
5) I love how at every chance they attempt to borrow from java, but due to
their underpinnings always wind up seriously short and still find room to
cut down java.
My advice to PHP... MAKE UP YOUR MIND!!! :-))
Anyways, that's my .02,
Brandon Goodin
-Original Message-
From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 6:17 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: Justifying Struts
I'm with you, Mike! That's why I stopped using this confounded framework
and returned to good ole ASP
Mark
> I've heard about
> Struts and have researched it over the last few hours. The MVC
> approach makes
> sense, but I'm still not sold on it yet. Here are some doubts I have.
>
> 1) I think the separation of presentation (view) from the model and
> controller
> has gone too far (or probably is not done well in Struts). For
> example, I like
> to have my front end developers do form (field) validation. These
> developers
> should not have to write beans to do this (all examples I've seen so
> far do
> form validation in Java beans). This somewhat contradicts the J2EE
> development
> model where "application developers", who are basically scripters (not
> OO
> developers), do the front end work.
>
> 2) There is just too much junk to write to do a simple form. The
> samples I've
> seen have involve too many files to do a simple form. Plus, why
> should I have
> to write a new bean for each form. Why can't the bean either be
> generated
> automatically or there be a general purpose bean (with properties that
> are
> created dynamically) that works for all forms?
>
> 3) We already separate business logic nicely, usually by encapsulating
> the
> logic in beans or EJBs. By the time the "application developers" get
> to work
> writing JSP/HTML, they are not writing any business logic. So why add
> the
> overhead of Struts (or any other framework)?
>
> 4) Because we separate out business logic into beans and EJBs, Java is
> simply
> used as a scripting langauge in our JSPs - in just the same way that
> VBScript
> is used in Active Server Pages. We try not to confuse the object
> oriented
> language called Java, with the scripting language called Java that we
> use in
> JSPs. We use a very small subset of Java in JSPs.
>
> 5) Based on #4, I don't particularly care for taglibs either. Again,
> we are
> simply using Java to do simple scripting. Loops are probably the most
> complex
> thing we do. So why add the extra overhead of taglibs. A loop is a
> loop
> whether it has the syntax of Java or a taglib. Plus, if I want my
> front-end
> developers to get any experience with serious development, I'd rather
> have them
> dealing with Java as opposed to taglibs, which have no value in the
> real world
> of programming.
>
> 6) Performance is unknown. I've looked through the mail archives and
> have seen
> requests for performance figures, but no answers (plenty of folks
> pushing
> Struts though).
>
> Mike
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