Re: [sugar] Volunteers/help for sugar/cerebro integration
Le mercredi 14 mai 2008 à 12:23 -0400, Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos a écrit : The integration can be done in either of these two ways: 1) Create a new telepathy connection manager that will act as interface between telepathy and cerebro. Some preliminary work already done by Michael Stone [2]. This way is a lot much saner. If you implement a new presence-service, XO won't be able to connect to a school server (using jabber) anymore. Furthermore, activities use also the Telepathy API (for tubes and chat mainly) so you'll need it anyway. Please don't break the abstraction layer. G. 2) Add the necessary callbacks in cerebro that will allow it to act as presence service to sugar directly [3]. Cerebro provides the necessary functionality, but lacks several dbus callbacks. ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [PATCH] scroll activity list with the arrow keys
Any reason to not use key_press events or similar? I don't think we should patch gtk.ScrolledWindow behavior. Marco On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, the patch below adds the Up and Down arrow keys to the gtk.ScrolledWindow key bindings in the activity list as requested by Eben. But, if I understand correctly, this code alters the behavior of _all_ the gtk.ScrolledWindow instances in the shell. Two questions: - To Eben: Is this desired? - To anyone: Which place would be best for this code? Thanks, Tomeu diff --git a/src/view/home/activitieslist.py b/src/view/home/activitieslist.py index f638738..7264852 100644 --- a/src/view/home/activitieslist.py +++ b/src/view/home/activitieslist.py @@ -15,6 +15,7 @@ # Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin St, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA import gobject +import gtk import hippo from sugar import profile @@ -31,7 +32,17 @@ class ActivitiesList(hippo.CanvasScrollbars): def __init__(self): hippo.CanvasScrollbars.__init__(self) self.set_policy(hippo.ORIENTATION_HORIZONTAL, hippo.SCROLLBAR_NEVER) - + +gtk.binding_entry_add_signal(gtk.ScrolledWindow, gtk.keysyms.Up, 0, + 'scroll-child', + gtk.ScrollType, gtk.SCROLL_STEP_BACKWARD, + bool, False) + +gtk.binding_entry_add_signal(gtk.ScrolledWindow, gtk.keysyms.Down, 0, + 'scroll-child', + gtk.ScrollType, gtk.SCROLL_STEP_FORWARD, + bool, False) + self._box = hippo.CanvasBox( \ background_color=style.COLOR_WHITE.get_int()) self.set_root(self._box) ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [PATCH] scroll activity list with the arrow keys
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any reason to not use key_press events or similar? I don't think we should patch gtk.ScrolledWindow behavior. Well, I guess that Eben will want this behavior in all the list views (mesh, group, activity, more?). Tomeu On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, the patch below adds the Up and Down arrow keys to the gtk.ScrolledWindow key bindings in the activity list as requested by Eben. But, if I understand correctly, this code alters the behavior of _all_ the gtk.ScrolledWindow instances in the shell. Two questions: - To Eben: Is this desired? - To anyone: Which place would be best for this code? Thanks, Tomeu diff --git a/src/view/home/activitieslist.py b/src/view/home/activitieslist.py index f638738..7264852 100644 --- a/src/view/home/activitieslist.py +++ b/src/view/home/activitieslist.py @@ -15,6 +15,7 @@ # Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin St, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA import gobject +import gtk import hippo from sugar import profile @@ -31,7 +32,17 @@ class ActivitiesList(hippo.CanvasScrollbars): def __init__(self): hippo.CanvasScrollbars.__init__(self) self.set_policy(hippo.ORIENTATION_HORIZONTAL, hippo.SCROLLBAR_NEVER) - + +gtk.binding_entry_add_signal(gtk.ScrolledWindow, gtk.keysyms.Up, 0, + 'scroll-child', + gtk.ScrollType, gtk.SCROLL_STEP_BACKWARD, + bool, False) + +gtk.binding_entry_add_signal(gtk.ScrolledWindow, gtk.keysyms.Down, 0, + 'scroll-child', + gtk.ScrollType, gtk.SCROLL_STEP_FORWARD, + bool, False) + self._box = hippo.CanvasBox( \ background_color=style.COLOR_WHITE.get_int()) self.set_root(self._box) ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [PATCH] scroll activity list with the arrow keys
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any reason to not use key_press events or similar? I don't think we should patch gtk.ScrolledWindow behavior. Well, I guess that Eben will want this behavior in all the list views (mesh, group, activity, more?). Even so, I don't think we should change gtk.ScrolledWindow behavior. Make a subclass of it instead. Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Bug triaging
Sure thing, Marco. (Howdy, Sugar list! I believe everyone originally cc'd on this email is on the list.) (The below is a direct copy of my email to Bernie last night.) This should get moved to a better location (perhaps a [[Bugmastering]] page) but I wanted to run it by people for a sanity check. There are plenty of questions on that page, and what I've done is almost certainly suboptimal; I am throwing this out there for feedback on how I can improve the usefulness of what I just did (it took about an hour to read all the existing bug reports and write those notes). http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mchua#Bugmastering.2C_round_1 -Mel Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: Mel, can you post about this on the sugar mailing list so that we can continue the discussion there? What you wrote to Bernie was a very nice start... Thanks, Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [Its.an.education.project] Freedom is a good deal (Was: Ivan's latest blog entry on OLPC)
Hi, Bernie's post resonates so well with my experience, that I need to comment on it. On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 2:23 PM, Bernie Innocenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin Langhoff wrote: No quite :-) but, I've been through the early linux-linux power user-pissed off by linux, got a powerbook-pissed off by OSX, back to linux cycle. Ah, me too! My OSX period lasted almost 2 years, and yours? ~1 year, bought a PPC Mac Mini for coding in ObjC + Cocoa as I was a big fan of OpenSTEP, but ended dedicating more time to python and pyCocoa when I knew that OLPC had decided to go with pygtk. The just works of OSX on Apple hardware was nice, but I chose to trade a bit of convenience (not much, IMO) for helping the efforts to bring software production capacity to the masses. I also had a 4-5 years Windows development period. A prerequisite for me to become profoundly disgusted by the whole proprietary software ecosystem. Same here, with Borland Delphi. We contracted very expensive professional support from some serious companies and frankly, its quality lacked tons behind what you get today from the FOSS communities. It seems to me that new users who have grown in this golden era cannot truly appreciate the amount of freedom they enjoy these days, after 10 years of steady growth of FOSS have increasingly forced proprietary vendors away from their worst practices. Yup. Who remembers daisy chaining 3 hardware dongles to my parallel port just to use the software they needed at work? And juggling a dozen different CDs just to install everything they required to use a new computer? Each time a machine would reboot, you'd get plenty of annoying splash screens of which you couldn't get rid. Not to mention searching for cracks on astalavista so you could use a text editor and a zip archiver :-) Believe it or not, this is how computers really looked like in the '90s, when Microsoft was still dominating the (computing) world. Matches my own experience. Now OSX is 80% open source, and Microsoft is forced to give away server applications unencumbered with per-seat licenses. Would this have happened also without GNU, Linux, Apache, Samba...? I doubt it. My opinion as well. Most users, especially the non technical ones, feel more comfortable using a convenient mixture of free and proprietary software that solves their immediate computing needs. Fine, but they should be aware how much they are actually benefiting from the efforts of thousands who stand still and work on providing alternative solutions. Yes, some effort needs to be done in order to see the situation in perspective. I guess journalists (or rather publications) are too busy announcing products to analyze what happened during the last two decades. If Rob Savoye and his friends were content with using Adobe's Flash, now we'd not have Gnash which works pretty decently, is portable to different CPUs, and can start the movies paused by default (a nice anti-ad feature). Check it out and help the Gnash hackers by reporting bugs or sending your patches. Freedom is not a theoretical issue. It has very important practical consequences too, but these are sometimes harder to see, even when they are right in front of your nose. Yes, freedom may not be for free... but it's usually a good investment. In my own words, FOSS in this education project has two main benefits: - Short term benefit: communities ranging in size from international organizations to regional administrations can be in charge of the software, without having to depend on foreign corporations that have very different goals and that _will_ abuse their disproportionate power. What OLPC has invested in Sugar to date is in reach of any government and of most regional organizations in the world. This is like that because Sugar is built on top of the work of thousands of individuals and companies that chose to contribute their work to the whole community. - Long term benefit: the recipients of the machines can understand how software and content can be created and distributed _by themselves_. People can use knowledge to their own benefit without having to depend on channels controlled by others. At the end, it's a matter of giving power to the people, I guess that's what makes me a fundamentalist and a terrorist. Cheers, Tomeu ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Report on OLPC in Ethiopia
AFAIK this is the first published report in a format somewhat akin to what people want to see when they ask for documented proof on how OLPC is actually operating in the field. I contrast that to blogs and PR efforts around the day of distribution of XOs. http://www.eduvision.ch/en/meta/documents/ethiopiareport_080227a-mh.pdf The producer is a for-profit (?) consulting firm in Switzerland. Ed Cherlin has mentioned he has access to some other unpublished reports that might give a more complete picture Yama ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] 65-node simple mesh test (and counting... ;-)
The network manager could be the culprit here, although I thought you had it disabled, how did you disable it? When it's running it looks like it first looks on channel 1 for a DHCP server. Then channel 6. Then channel 11. Then it tries to connect to the last known access point. Then it does it all again. This will take a bit of time... Only then does it assume that there is no DHCP server and switches to ad hoc mode on channel 1. Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 6:04 PM To: C. Scott Ananian Cc: OLPC Development; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sugar ml Subject: Re: 65-node simple mesh test (and counting... ;-) On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Marcus Leech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd be *very* interested to compare the distribution on a wired network. It seems to me that given the broadcast model, everybody should see everybody else in much shorter time than the 55 seconds shown in the outlying cluster on that graph. Marcus, this is indeed an interesting idea. However it has a significant problem: wiring up more than 60 XOs onto a switch requires equipment, time and space that OLPC cannot presently provide. Such a testbed though is absolutely necessary not only as a proof of concept for your suggestion, but also for doing large scale mesh network testing in general. The common, but erroneous, assumption is often made that a wireless network is just like a wired network, but with the wires removed. So very true! On a wireless network, broadcasts are successfully received with much lower probability. RF is mysterious and magical, and all sorts of connection asymmetries, near-field effects, and radiation lobe patterns conspire to make it unlikely that *everyone* can hear you equally at once -- and then you get into remote collisions and other mechanisms that make you unaware that not everyone heard you. And there is not 'ack' mechanism for 802.11 broadcast. All these are true also, but I think we're mystifying things a little bit here. The wireless medium is unpredictable mainly because its properties are also a function of time (a non-issue in wired networks), but at least (thank God!) it [the wireless medium] does not discriminate between broadcast and unicast frames! Adding an ack scheme to broadcasts should yield equal (or even better due to lowered speed) reliability using broadcast frames. Even without the ack scheme, I noticed that, on average, some 95% of the data transmitted over broadcast are successfully received on all nodes. We are throwing this away by discarding it on our wireless interfaces. Pol -- Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos Graduate student Viral Communications MIT Media Lab Tel: +1 (617) 459-6058 http://www.mit.edu/~ypod/ ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] hot corners
Duplicated from another thread, but it seems this comment belongs here: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 4:20 AM, Simon Schampijer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mikus Grinbergs wrote: I have put an rpm which has a control panel option to set a delay for the frame activation and an option to toggle the top of the screen to activate the frame as well. I'm not in agreement with allowing Frame activation from arbitrary corners. I think it's all or nothing, due to the use of each edge for independent items, and the position of notifications in each corner. If someone doesn't want it available in all corners, they should use the key instead. On the other hand, if you meant top of the screen to mean the top /edge/ (a la warm edges), I would move to make this again a global option (on all edges), with a separate delay adjustment. Warm edges would be off by default, while hot corners, I still think, could be on by default with a reasonable delay, at least until we get further testing feedback regarding the effectiveness of that solution. - Eben ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [PATCH] scroll activity list with the arrow keys
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:04 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any reason to not use key_press events or similar? I don't think we should patch gtk.ScrolledWindow behavior. Well, I guess that Eben will want this behavior in all the list views (mesh, group, activity, more?). Confirmation on that. All list views should behave the same. - Eben ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Activity proposal: TamTam Suite
I'm all for it. TamTam has high educational value, it's well maintained and it rocks. On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Jean Piche [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Short description of the features: - Suite of Music and Sound activities based on the Csound audio engine - Update.2 will provide a stabilised beat sharing environment and a host of bug fixes. - Inter-activity data sharing will depend on the evolution of the XO Security model. * Screenshots or screencasts: No current images of the four activities but the interfaces will see few changes. * Are you willing to follow the Schedule? We will certainly try our best. One should note however that the ever shifting state of the Datastore and Journal could make this a difficult promise to hold! I think we do *not* plan any change to the Datastore ABI for this cycle. Tomeu please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks, Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Activity proposal: TamTam Suite
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Modules#tamtam-activity Please link the developers names to either a User page on the wiki or an external home page on the web. Thanks! Marco On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Jean Piche [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Short description of the features: - Suite of Music and Sound activities based on the Csound audio engine - Update.2 will provide a stabilised beat sharing environment and a host of bug fixes. - Inter-activity data sharing will depend on the evolution of the XO Security model. * Screenshots or screencasts: No current images of the four activities but the interfaces will see few changes. * Are you willing to follow the Schedule? We will certainly try our best. One should note however that the ever shifting state of the Datastore and Journal could make this a difficult promise to hold! * System components the activity depends on: Sugar, Csound, GTK, Presence, datastore, Journal, ALSA * Members of the developer team: Olivier Bélanger (new lead) Jean Piché Andrian Martin James Bergstra Nathanael Lécaudé * Status of internationalization: In pootle.. almost complete, I believe. * Code repository: http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/tamtam;a=summary * Bug tracking system: tamtam-activity in dev.laptop.org Trac ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] [PATCH] Implement search in the activity list.
Hi,
this is very similar to the mesh view search.
Thanks,
Tomeu
From fdad7268e4c39e277d75fa82c1eda1972467f9b8 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 18:21:58 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] Implement search in the activity list.
---
src/view/home/HomeBox.py| 43 +++---
src/view/home/activitieslist.py | 19 +++-
2 files changed, 56 insertions(+), 6 deletions(-)
diff --git a/src/view/home/HomeBox.py b/src/view/home/HomeBox.py
index 181849f..c9effa6 100644
--- a/src/view/home/HomeBox.py
+++ b/src/view/home/HomeBox.py
@@ -15,9 +15,10 @@
# Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin St, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA
from gettext import gettext as _
+import logging
-import gtk
import gobject
+import gtk
import hippo
from sugar.graphics import style
@@ -30,6 +31,8 @@ from view.home.activitieslist import ActivitiesList
_RING_VIEW = 0
_LIST_VIEW = 1
+_AUTOSEARCH_TIMEOUT = 1000
+
class HomeBox(hippo.CanvasBox, hippo.CanvasItem):
__gtype_name__ = 'SugarHomeBox'
@@ -41,12 +44,18 @@ class HomeBox(hippo.CanvasBox, hippo.CanvasItem):
self._enable_xo_palette = False
self._toolbar = HomeToolbar()
-#self._toolbar.connect('query-changed', self.__toolbar_query_changed_cb)
+self._toolbar.connect('query-changed', self.__toolbar_query_changed_cb)
self._toolbar.connect('view-changed', self.__toolbar_view_changed_cb)
self.append(hippo.CanvasWidget(widget=self._toolbar))
self._set_view(_RING_VIEW)
+def __toolbar_query_changed_cb(self, toolbar, query):
+if self._list_view is None:
+return
+query = query.lower()
+self._list_view.set_filter(query)
+
def __toolbar_view_changed_cb(self, toolbar, view):
self._set_view(view)
@@ -120,6 +129,9 @@ class HomeToolbar(gtk.Toolbar):
def __init__(self):
gtk.Toolbar.__init__(self)
+self._query = None
+self._autosearch_timer = None
+
self._add_separator()
tool_item = gtk.ToolItem()
@@ -131,8 +143,8 @@ class HomeToolbar(gtk.Toolbar):
'system-search')
self._search_entry.add_clear_button()
self._search_entry.set_width_chars(25)
-#self._search_entry.connect('activate', self._entry_activated_cb)
-#self._search_entry.connect('changed', self._entry_changed_cb)
+self._search_entry.connect('activate', self.__entry_activated_cb)
+self._search_entry.connect('changed', self.__entry_changed_cb)
tool_item.add(self._search_entry)
self._search_entry.show()
@@ -172,3 +184,26 @@ class HomeToolbar(gtk.Toolbar):
self.insert(separator, -1)
separator.show()
+def __entry_activated_cb(self, entry):
+if self._autosearch_timer:
+gobject.source_remove(self._autosearch_timer)
+new_query = entry.props.text
+if self._query != new_query:
+self._query = new_query
+self.emit('query-changed', self._query)
+
+def __entry_changed_cb(self, entry):
+if not entry.props.text:
+entry.activate()
+return
+
+if self._autosearch_timer:
+gobject.source_remove(self._autosearch_timer)
+self._autosearch_timer = gobject.timeout_add(_AUTOSEARCH_TIMEOUT,
+ self.__autosearch_timer_cb)
+
+def __autosearch_timer_cb(self):
+self._autosearch_timer = None
+self._search_entry.activate()
+return False
+
diff --git a/src/view/home/activitieslist.py b/src/view/home/activitieslist.py
index f638738..c04b967 100644
--- a/src/view/home/activitieslist.py
+++ b/src/view/home/activitieslist.py
@@ -31,7 +31,8 @@ class ActivitiesList(hippo.CanvasScrollbars):
def __init__(self):
hippo.CanvasScrollbars.__init__(self)
self.set_policy(hippo.ORIENTATION_HORIZONTAL, hippo.SCROLLBAR_NEVER)
-
+
+self._query = ''
self._box = hippo.CanvasBox( \
background_color=style.COLOR_WHITE.get_int())
self.set_root(self._box)
@@ -57,7 +58,14 @@ class ActivitiesList(hippo.CanvasScrollbars):
return
def _add_activity(self, activity_info):
-self._box.append(ActivityEntry(activity_info))
+entry = ActivityEntry(activity_info)
+self._box.append(entry)
+entry.set_visible(entry.matches(self._query))
+
+def set_filter(self, query):
+self._query = query
+for entry in self._box.get_children():
+entry.set_visible(entry.matches(query))
class ActivityEntry(hippo.CanvasBox, hippo.CanvasItem):
__gtype_name__ = 'SugarActivityEntry'
@@ -81,6 +89,7 @@ class ActivityEntry(hippo.CanvasBox, hippo.CanvasItem):
self._bundle_id = activity_info.bundle_id
self._version = activity_info.version
Re: [sugar] [PATCH] Merge activities.default into favorites.
Can somebody review this patch? I'd like to implement the date field in the activity list, but that will conflict heavily with this patch. Thanks, Tomeu 2008/5/13 Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [re-adding sugar to cc] 2008/5/12 Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I glanced at this, and I *think* that it does what I want it to, but I wanted to clarify. (The comment # Activities to be automatically added to the ring after an upgrade worried me). What I expect this to do is merge a list of specified default activities D with a list of favorite activities F, such that the ring contains F ∪ D, where F is the up to date list of user chosen favorites and D is a list of defaults as specified /by the latest upgrade/. So I guess a clear point I'm questioning is if the activities.defaults is a) specified by the countries at time of customization and b) read from an activity pack upon future updates, such that it is not actually a hard coded list (except, perhaps, as a default when no other list has been provided via the above methods). Yes, the activities.defaults file is read and merged in the way you describe every time it changes. This will happen in the scenarios you mentioned. It also appears that that the implementation performs the merge of F and D once each time a new defaults file appears (via an activity pack update), which is desired behavior, but I just wanted to confirm that. Right. PS. Can someone give me a clearer idea of the activity pack and how they actually work? My personal interpretation of the idea is that it consists a bundle of activity bundles, and a file which specifies the new activities.defaults. I furthermore assume that the activities.defaults file included should *only* reference activities included in the activity pack. Could I get confirmation on this? Yes, this is my understanding as well, although I have no first-hand info on that. Thanks, Tomeu ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [PATCH] scroll activity list with the arrow keys
Hi,
this new patch uses key-press-event.
Thanks,
Tomeu
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 5:08 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:04 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Any reason to not use key_press events or similar? I don't think we
should patch gtk.ScrolledWindow behavior.
Well, I guess that Eben will want this behavior in all the list views
(mesh, group, activity, more?).
Confirmation on that. All list views should behave the same.
- Eben
From e3ff1c398a20d019b6da49fdd61b0d8d1ed1 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 18:55:50 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] Make arrows scroll up and down in scroll views.
---
src/view/home/activitieslist.py | 22 +-
1 files changed, 21 insertions(+), 1 deletions(-)
diff --git a/src/view/home/activitieslist.py b/src/view/home/activitieslist.py
index f638738..ebdf1ec 100644
--- a/src/view/home/activitieslist.py
+++ b/src/view/home/activitieslist.py
@@ -15,6 +15,7 @@
# Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin St, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA
import gobject
+import gtk
import hippo
from sugar import profile
@@ -31,7 +32,8 @@ class ActivitiesList(hippo.CanvasScrollbars):
def __init__(self):
hippo.CanvasScrollbars.__init__(self)
self.set_policy(hippo.ORIENTATION_HORIZONTAL, hippo.SCROLLBAR_NEVER)
-
+self.props.widget.connect('key-press-event', self.__key_press_event_cb)
+
self._box = hippo.CanvasBox( \
background_color=style.COLOR_WHITE.get_int())
self.set_root(self._box)
@@ -59,6 +61,24 @@ class ActivitiesList(hippo.CanvasScrollbars):
def _add_activity(self, activity_info):
self._box.append(ActivityEntry(activity_info))
+def __key_press_event_cb(self, widget, event):
+keyname = gtk.gdk.keyval_name(event.keyval)
+
+vadjustment = self.props.widget.props.vadjustment
+if keyname == 'Up':
+if vadjustment.props.value vadjustment.props.lower:
+vadjustment.props.value -= vadjustment.props.step_increment
+elif keyname == 'Down':
+max_value = vadjustment.props.upper - vadjustment.props.page_size
+if vadjustment.props.value max_value:
+vadjustment.props.value = min(
+vadjustment.props.value + vadjustment.props.step_increment,
+max_value)
+else:
+return False
+
+return True
+
class ActivityEntry(hippo.CanvasBox, hippo.CanvasItem):
__gtype_name__ = 'SugarActivityEntry'
--
1.5.2.5
___
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Re: [sugar] Bug triaging
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Mel Chua [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure thing, Marco. (Howdy, Sugar list! I believe everyone originally cc'd on this email is on the list.) Hi Mel, I added comments in the wiki. Hope they are as useful to you as your questions have been to me :) Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Help building and running sugar
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:57 PM, Gustavo Olaza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, tanks for yours answers but I'm not running yet. I installed the python-numpy package before run Sugar again. Looking around, I saw that the Sugar run but without the apps, so I did a new build and a package named 'libxapian15' is missing. I only have a libxapian13 in the repositories. What can I do to solve this issue? Edit sugar-jhbuild/config/sysdeps/ubuntu-7.04.xml and replace libxapian15 with libxapian13. Try to build. If that works, let me know and I'll update it in git. Regards Morgan ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [PATCH] (Incomplete) Activity Launch Feedback
I'm resubmitting this patch, as a lot has changed on master since it was last posted. I'd /really/ like to have a working version of this in joyride for testing by next Monday, since it will give us the opportunity to get feedback directly from educators from the deployment countries. - Eben On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A small update this time. I rewrote the launchbox.py file. This version uses a simple CanvasBox, eliminating the need for a complex layout class for what amounts to a centered icon. I also eliminated some old code that was leftover from my early tests. Finally, I implemented the suspend/resume methods for the class, so that the icon only pulses when it's visible. Note that the suspend/resume methods require a small patch to HomeWindow.py, which calls them, but I'm not going to resend the entire patch to change those two lines at the moment...I just wanted those looking over this work in progress to see the cleaner launchbox code. - Eben On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's my second pass at the launcher patch. This version changes little in the actual behavior of the code, but substantially cleans up the code itself. I pulled all of the pending_activity code out, simplifying the model a good deal, as we no longer need it with the new Home design. I also re-factored the flow of the launch (and launch failed) notifications, unifying so that everything occurs first in the model which then sends signals to the view, rather than having the view call the model in some cases and vice versa, which led to inconsistencies. These changes also made the calls to notify_launch in the shell cleaner, passing the home_activity object instead of several other parameters, which in turn cleaned up the call stack for setting/changing the launching activity icon. I'm much more satisfied here. The main problem that remains is that the launching activity feedback is still mostly maintained within the view. The model remains unchanged from before. We need to clean this up so that a launching activity (which doesn't yet have a window) can still be considered active in the model, so that the view always properly reflects the model instead of tiptoeing around it to achieve the launching feedback effect. Thoughts on how to best achieve this goal are welcomed, as it gets a bit more intimate with the window management business that I'm unfamiliar with. - Eben On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 1:19 AM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This patch is mainly for Marco, who plans to help me finish and clean up the new activity launcher. It's currently full of TODOs, comments, temporary hacks, etc, but it's in a nearly complete state inasmuch as it will run smoothly despite the partially unfinished and poorly styled implementation. Also, launchbox.py is a new file to be added to src/view/home/ in addition to applying the patch, and of course you'll need to edit the Makefile to include it as well. Marco, take a peek at the various comments I've made; I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the remainder. It's looking good so far. - Eben From ea80763aa46aea1cf6a54eab8370c662b6ab4d09 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 03:22:34 -0400 Subject: [PATCH] New activity launch feedback This is a first pass which provides a mostly complete demo of the new activity launching feedback design. It also greatly cleans up the code, both eliminating the now unused pending activity throughout, and re-factoring the signals regarding activity launch (and failure) between the model and the view. Future changes need to be made to fully support the new approach in the view itself, rather than tiptoeing around the model to present the desired effect. --- src/model/homemodel.py | 62 + src/model/shellmodel.py |1 + src/shellservice.py |4 +- src/view/Shell.py| 47 +++- src/view/frame/activitiestray.py | 33 +++ src/view/frame/friendstray.py|8 ++-- src/view/frame/zoomtoolbar.py|4 ++- src/view/home/HomeWindow.py | 23 -- src/view/home/activitieslist.py |6 +++- src/view/home/activitiesring.py | 15 + 10 files changed, 110 insertions(+), 93 deletions(-) diff --git a/src/model/homemodel.py b/src/model/homemodel.py index 5538f84..3601cd8 100644 --- a/src/model/homemodel.py +++ b/src/model/homemodel.py @@ -42,7 +42,13 @@ class HomeModel(gobject.GObject): 'activity-added': (gobject.SIGNAL_RUN_FIRST, gobject.TYPE_NONE, ([gobject.TYPE_PYOBJECT])), -'activity-started':
Re: [sugar] Help building and running sugar
2008/5/15, Marco Pesenti Gritti [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:07 PM, Morgan Collett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:57 PM, Gustavo Olaza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] Edit sugar-jhbuild/config/sysdeps/ubuntu-7.04.xml and replace libxapian15 with libxapian13. Try to build. If that works, let me know and I'll update it in git. I will try that. The alternative is to just remove xapian sysdeps. jhbuild will build it from sources in that case... Well, thanks again. -- Saludos, Gustavo Olaza ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [PATCH] (Incomplete) Activity Launch Feedback
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:51 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm resubmitting this patch, as a lot has changed on master since it was last posted. I'd /really/ like to have a working version of this in joyride for testing by next Monday, since it will give us the opportunity to get feedback directly from educators from the deployment countries. I suggest to apply it as the patch to the joyride rpm. I want feedback before refactoring the model to get the patch in a committable state. How does that sound? Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [PATCH] (Incomplete) Activity Launch Feedback
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 9:51 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, responding privately for more details on your suggestion. Are you suggesting that I copy the patch onto a laptop direclty (say, via USB) and then apply it to the already installed OS? Could you give me details on where and how to accomplish this? Thanks. Adding the list back because I think it's interesting to discuss ways to get experimental patches like this in the build. I guess you won't mind. No. The way the code gets in the build is: 1 Build a tarball from the git sources 2 Build and rpm from the sources 3 Joyride build system grabs the rpm and put it on the images. I suggest we apply your patch as part of step 2. Does that make more sense? Ummm, maybe. Do you mean build an rpm from the tarball? Otherwise, how do we get the patch into the rpm without actually pushing the changes to git master? In any case, I know little about how any of these steps work. What does your suggestion imply I need to do myself to make this happen? And, for that matter, if it's still going to wind up in a joyride build anyway (instead of run and tested on a few specific laptops with modified builds), then what advantage does this have over just putting the experimental patch in master? It could always be reverted or cleaned up subsequently. Thanks! - Eben ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [PATCH] (Incomplete) Activity Launch Feedback
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 10:03 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ummm, maybe. Do you mean build an rpm from the tarball? Yeah the sources tarball. Otherwise, how do we get the patch into the rpm without actually pushing the changes to git master? In any case, I know little about how any of these steps work. What does your suggestion imply I need to do myself to make this happen? Nope, but you will need someone to make an rpm for you in any case. And, for that matter, if it's still going to wind up in a joyride build anyway (instead of run and tested on a few specific laptops with modified builds), then what advantage does this have over just putting the experimental patch in master? Would you actually prefer to run it only on a few specific laptops? I was thinking that developers community feedback (through joyride) would be also valuable here. About advantages. I guess I'm trying to keep master as the reference source and to push experimental patches somewhere else. As soon as a patch is in main code repository it's very easy to forget about the implementation problems it had, especially when swamped with a bunch of other things. An alternative would be to sync your repository with master, build the source tarball from it, and make clear in the rpm spec where the source is coming from. It's cleaner, but I'm not sure it brings practical advantages at the moment. Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [PATCH] (Incomplete) Activity Launch Feedback
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 10:03 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how do we get the patch into the rpm without actually pushing the changes to git master? In any case, I know little about how any of these steps work. What does your suggestion imply I need to do myself to make this happen? Nope, but you will need someone to make an rpm for you in any case. OK, so can I be off the hook on this, and assume that you or someone else will apply the patch and make the rpm? It would be great to see it in a build before the weekend so we can make sure it operates well enough before the demos on Tuesday. Would you actually prefer to run it only on a few specific laptops? I was thinking that developers community feedback (through joyride) would be also valuable here. No, I agree that it would be better to have more people try it. - Eben ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] review: gadget buddy search code
Ar 15/05/2008 am 20:33, ysgrifennodd Dafydd Harries: +class BuddyIqTest5(TestCase): +buddy multi query with two results +class BuddyIqTest5(TestCase): +buddy query with an invalid property Let's rename the second one to BuddyIqInvalidPropertyTest or something like that. Same applies to ActivityIqTest4. -- Dafydd ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] review: gadget presence branch
A review of the 'presence' branch in Guillaume's Gadget tree, as taken from:
https://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/guillaume/gadget;a=shortlog;h=presence
diff --git a/gadget/component.py b/gadget/component.py
index 6fcb682..f52e780 100644
--- a/gadget/component.py
+++ b/gadget/component.py
@@ -83,6 +83,7 @@ class GadgetService(component.Service):
xmlstream.addObserver('//message', self.message)
xmlstream.addObserver('//presence', self.presence)
+# FIXME: we should send presence to buddies subscribed to gadget.
How?
if self.debug:
self.xmlstream.setDispatchFn(self.onElement)
I'm guessing your roster branch answers this question.
@@ -235,6 +236,9 @@ class GadgetService(component.Service):
def presence(self, stanza):
type = stanza.getAttribute('type')
from_ = stanza.getAttribute('from')
+# remove the ressource
+jid = from_.split('/')[0]
+to = stanza.getAttribute('to')
if from_ is None:
return
Twisted has code for handling JIDs; let's use that.
from twisted.words.protocols.jabber import jid
jid.JID('[EMAIL PROTECTED]/baz').userhost()
'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
@@ -249,20 +253,47 @@ class GadgetService(component.Service):
result = domish.Element((None, 'presence'))
result['type'] = 'subscribed'
result['to'] = from_
+result['from'] = to
self.send(result)
-log.msg('%s subscribed to gadget' % from_)
+log.msg('%s subscribed to gadget' % jid)
# request subscription to the buddy
result = domish.Element((None, 'presence'))
result['type'] = 'subscribe'
result['to'] = from_
+result['from'] = to
self.send(result)
+
elif type == 'subscribed':
-log.msg('subscribed to %s' % from_)
-# FIXME: add buddy to the model ?
+log.msg('subscribed to %s' % jid)
+# send gadget's presence
+presence = domish.Element((None, 'presence'))
+presence['to'] = from_
+presence['from'] = to
+self.send(presence)
+# FIXME: add buddy to model
+
elif type == 'unsubscribed':
-log.msg('unsubscribed from %s' % from_)
-# FIXME: remove buddy from the model ?
+log.msg('unsubscribed from %s' % jid)
+# the buddy will be removed from the model when we'll receive
+# the 'unavailable' presence
+
+elif type == 'probe':
+log.msg('%s is online' % jid)
+self.model.buddy_add(jid, {})
+
+# send gadget's presence
+presence = domish.Element((None, 'presence'))
+presence['to'] = from_
+presence['from'] = to
+self.send(presence)
+
+elif type == 'unavailable':
+log.msg('%s is offline' % jid)
+try:
+self.model.buddy_remove(jid)
+except KeyError:
+pass
def muc_presence(self, stanza):
type = stanza.getAttribute('type')
diff --git a/gadget/test_component.py b/gadget/test_component.py
index 4d4a808..5382edb 100644
--- a/gadget/test_component.py
+++ b/gadget/test_component.py
@@ -238,6 +238,7 @@ class SubscriptionTest(TestCase):
presence = domish.Element((ns.CLIENT, 'presence'))
presence['from'] = '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
+presence['to'] = 'gadget.foo.org'
presence['type'] = 'subscribe'
self.server.send(presence)
return self.done
@@ -250,6 +251,50 @@ class SubscriptionTest(TestCase):
assert stanza['type'] == 'subscribe'
self.done.callback(None)
+class ProbePresenceTest(TestCase):
+test if gadget adds buddies to the model when it receives their
+probe presence
+def runTest(self):
+self.done = defer.Deferred()
+self.server.addOnetimeObserver('//presence', self.presence)
+
+presence = domish.Element((ns.CLIENT, 'presence'))
+presence['from'] = '[EMAIL PROTECTED]/Ressource'
s/Ressource/Resource/.
+presence['to'] = 'gadget.foo.org'
+presence['type'] = 'probe'
+self.server.send(presence)
+return self.done
+
+def presence(self, stanza):
+assert stanza.name == 'presence'
+
+buddy = self.service.model.buddy_by_id('[EMAIL PROTECTED]')
+assert buddy.jid == '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
+
+self.done.callback(None)
+
+class UnavailablePresenceTest(TestCase):
+test if gadget removes buddies from the model when it receives their
+unavailable presence
+def runTest(self):
+self.done = defer.Deferred()
+self.service.model.buddy_add('[EMAIL PROTECTED]', {})
+
+presence = domish.Element((ns.CLIENT, 'presence'))
+
[sugar] Microsoft
One Laptop per Child is announcing an agreement with Microsoft to make a dual boot, Linux/Windows, version of the XO laptop. In addition, our intention is to engage one or more third parties to port Sugar to run on Windows in order to reach a wider installed base of laptops. In the meanwhile, OLPC remains fully committed to our goal: a completely free and open learning platform for the world's children. The mission statement of OLPC has not changed in three years (attached). Sugar is the first user interface specifically designed for children and teachers to learn and collaborate, and remains central to our strategy. Broadening Sugar's reach to as many children as possible remains key to OLPC's mission. To enable the Sugar environment to reach as many children as possible, particularly in the poorest areas of the world, OLPC must be able to bid on educational technology contracts, some of which require that Microsoft Windows be able to run on our hardware. The increased volumes will lower the XO-1's price, already lowest in the industry with capabilities no other laptop shares. OLPC is substantially increasing its engineering resources and all software development continues entirely on GNU/Linux. We will continue to work to make Sugar on Linux the best possible platform for education and to invest in our expanding Linux deployments in Peru, Uruguay, Mexico and elsewhere. No OLPC resources are going to porting Sugar to Microsoft Windows, although as a free software project, we encourage others to do so. The Sugar user interface is already available for Fedora, Debian and Ubuntu Linux distributions, greatly broadening Sugar's reach to the millions of existing Linux systems. We continue to solicit help from the free software community in these efforts. Additionally, the Fedora, Debian and Ubuntu software environments run on the XO-1, adding support for tens of thousands of free software applications. Open Firmware V2, the free and open source BIOS, is now capable of running Linux, Microsoft Windows XP and other operating systems, and was developed by Firmworks with support from OLPC. This will enable dual boot of OLPC XO laptops with Microsoft Windows XP in addition to the existing Fedora-based system and will become the standard BIOS/bootloader for all XO systems when completed. With this free BIOS, the XO-1 continues to be the most open laptop hardware currently available. For more information, see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/AnnounceFAQ. ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Microsoft
Dear Nicholas, You made very strong points in your keynotes about the XO outlining exactly (and correctly) WHY you were staying away from Microsoft.? Also, if you think Microsoft has any long-term interest in dual boot systems, you don't know them very well. I'm saddened by your announcement because it is anti-kid.? If the grown-ups don't stop thinking of kids as small adults, they will never get the computers they need.? 36 million kids will be using Linux in Brazil by the end of the year (in labs), so we have lots of independent verification that there is life without Microsoft.? You told us that the XO was specifically designed to avoid the need to carry the huge Windows overhead.? And, while we're at it, don't forget that Microsoft already charges many schools $100 per computer per year for the privilege of running their software. This is a sad state of affairs, indeed. David Thornburg -Original Message- From: Asheesh Laroia [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Nicholas Negroponte [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu, 15 May 2008 6:27 pm Subject: Re: [sugar] Microsoft On Thu, 15 May 2008, Nicholas Negroponte wrote: One Laptop per Child is announcing an agreement with Microsoft to make a dual boot, Linux/Windows, version of the XO laptop. In addition, our intention is to engage one or more third parties to port Sugar to run on Windows in order to reach a wider installed base of laptops. In the meanwhile, OLPC remains fully committed to our goal: a completely free and open learning platform for the world's children. The mission statement of OLPC has not changed in three years (attached). My copy of this mail (as available at http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2008-May/005752.html ) does not have the attachment of the mission statement. -- Asheesh. -- Absolutum obsoletum. (If it works, it's out of date.) -- Stafford Beer ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Microsoft
Let's look at this with a slightly different lens before we blow up on NN and Microsoft. What does this agreement equate to? And what are the alternatives to Microsoft? If the XO was running a completely closed source stack with no documentation on hardware, how would the Linux community feel? They would feel that they were being shut out and not allowed to run whatever software they wanted to or develop. This is something the linux community has speared hardware companies over for years. So as a fair practice I think it's clear that no special actions can ethically be made to prevent Windows or any other OS from running on the machine. So a Windows port for the XO isn't something that could have been preventative. Furthermore OLPC's sale of the XO hardware doesn't come with any restrictions for use. To not allow countries to install windows once they take ownership would be a completely unethical move given OLPC's commitments to freedom. From scuttlebut about this deal and the way that I understand it, it's the equivalent of OLPC/Quanta selling the machines to Microsoft and they doing whatever they want with them. I'm not as clear on this point, but is there an ethical problem with selling the machine to Microsoft? Could OLPC ethically Not sell the machine to whoever wanted to buy them in large volumes? We must remember that hardware companies have invested a good deal of money on the expectation that they can at best break even on the XO production. They haven't reached nearly the levels of machines sold to satisfy these manufacturors. Do I want to see Windows on the XO? No, never, and god I hope not. Will Microsoft end up screwing us? Likely, given their history. Will this still give us the chance to put great hardware and content into the hands of children all over the world? Yes. But Linux and FOSS can't triumph over Microsoft by excluding them and by obfusication. We need to make a better product. With Walter Bender on his own and dedicated to bringing Sugar to every machine on a FOSS stack, and all OLPC produced software being safely GPL'ed, I feel confident that Sugar can beat out Windows. Let's focus on getting sugar and linux and what we *can* do instead of being angry. I plan on staying and producing content, translations and improvements for OLPC and for children. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org Seth Woodworth On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Asheesh Laroia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 15 May 2008, Nicholas Negroponte wrote: One Laptop per Child is announcing an agreement with Microsoft to make a dual boot, Linux/Windows, version of the XO laptop. In addition, our intention is to engage one or more third parties to port Sugar to run on Windows in order to reach a wider installed base of laptops. In the meanwhile, OLPC remains fully committed to our goal: a completely free and open learning platform for the world's children. The mission statement of OLPC has not changed in three years (attached). My copy of this mail (as available at http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2008-May/005752.html ) does not have the attachment of the mission statement. -- Asheesh. -- Absolutum obsoletum. (If it works, it's out of date.) -- Stafford Beer ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [support-gang] Microsoft
On Thu, 15 May 2008, Steve Holton wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Seth Woodworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let's look at this with a slightly different lens before we blow up on NN and Microsoft. What does this agreement equate to? And what are the alternatives to Microsoft? If the XO was running a completely closed source stack with no documentation on hardware, how would the Linux community feel? They would feel that they were being shut out and not allowed to run whatever software they wanted to or develop. This is something the linux community has speared hardware companies over for years. ...and to which the free software (linux) community would respond with a reverse engineering effort, at it's own (collective) expense, and rather quickly have a solution. If turnabout is fair play, let Microsoft adopt the free software community response as well. (When Cisco modified their WRT54G hardware so that Linux could no longer run, the response was to strip-down the gnu/linux stack even more until it would run again.) It's doubtful the free software community would do what Microsoft is demanding: asking the manufacturer to add 5-10% to the cost of the hardware to facilitate their efforts, nor would the free software community charge a $3.00 license fee for the use thereafter. I missed where the hardware was being changed and the cost going up to support this. what I read was that the boot firmware was being modified so that it could dual-boot into windows. please point me at the additional cost involved. David Lang If you're going to paint us all with the same brush, at least use the same paint, too. So as a fair practice I think it's clear that no special actions can ethically be made to prevent Windows or any other OS from running on the machine. So a Windows port for the XO isn't something that could have been preventative. Agree. But that's not what is being proposed. The agreement clearly includes a modification of the original principles (minimum cost for the devices) to provide a Microsoft handicap in this game. I would not call that fair practice. Furthermore OLPC's sale of the XO hardware doesn't come with any restrictions for use. To not allow countries to install windows once they take ownership would be a completely unethical move given OLPC's commitments to freedom. OLPC has NEVER made any mention of preventing anyone (with a developer key) from installing whatever software they wanted to install on the XO, (which cannot be said of all computer system manufacturers cough*cough*XBOX*cough*cough) That's not what's being discussed here. Negroponte is taking proactive action to create a more favorable environment for Microsoft. Is OLPC making the same offer to Ubuntu? Debian? What about Red Hat? From scuttlebut about this deal and the way that I understand it, it's the equivalent of OLPC/Quanta selling the machines to Microsoft and they doing whatever they want with them. I'm not as clear on this point, but is there an ethical problem with selling the machine to Microsoft? Not at all. The problem appears to be that Microsoft is asking/demanding that the OLPC principles be modified in deference to Microsoft. Could OLPC ethically Not sell the machine to whoever wanted to buy them in large volumes? We must remember that hardware companies have invested a good deal of money on the expectation that they can at best break even on the XO production. They haven't reached nearly the levels of machines sold to satisfy these manufacturors. The hardware manufacturers are not loosing as much on the per-unit sales of these devices as they are gaining from the non-profit funded research and development which went into producing them. I was under the impression the hardware manufacturers weren't loosing anything on the per-unit sales. Do I want to see Windows on the XO? No, never, and god I hope not. Will Microsoft end up screwing us? Likely, given their history. It will not happen unless OLPC facilitates it. They appear to be doing just so. And doing so in part with the time and money I donated to the cause. I don't like to get angry, but Will this still give us the chance to put great hardware and content into the hands of children all over the world? Yes. Nope. It's over. But Linux and FOSS can't triumph over Microsoft by excluding them and by obfusication. We need to make a better product. I think you are under the impression that the 'education project' has been somehow hindered by efforts aimed at *preventing* Microsoft from contributing. I do not see that as the case. Speaking as one of those 'free software fundamentalists, I can say I long ago wrote-off Microsoft and pretty much ignore what they choose to do. (They know it, and that dismissiveness is one of the things that keeps Microsoft up at night.) If Microsoft wants to shape up and join the future, only their shareholders will complain. That's not what's being
Re: [sugar] [support-gang] Microsoft
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 15 May 2008, Steve Holton wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Seth Woodworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let's look at this with a slightly different lens before we blow up on NN and Microsoft. What does this agreement equate to? And what are the alternatives to Microsoft? If the XO was running a completely closed source stack with no documentation on hardware, how would the Linux community feel? They would feel that they were being shut out and not allowed to run whatever software they wanted to or develop. This is something the linux community has speared hardware companies over for years. ...and to which the free software (linux) community would respond with a reverse engineering effort, at it's own (collective) expense, and rather quickly have a solution. If turnabout is fair play, let Microsoft adopt the free software community response as well. (When Cisco modified their WRT54G hardware so that Linux could no longer run, the response was to strip-down the gnu/linux stack even more until it would run again.) It's doubtful the free software community would do what Microsoft is demanding: asking the manufacturer to add 5-10% to the cost of the hardware to facilitate their efforts, nor would the free software community charge a $3.00 license fee for the use thereafter. I missed where the hardware was being changed and the cost going up to support this. what I read was that the boot firmware was being modified so that it could dual-boot into windows. please point me at the additional cost involved. David Lang from: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/technology/16laptop.html?_r=2oref=sloginoref=slogin Windows will add a bit to the price of the machines, about $3, the licensing fee Microsoft charges to some developing nations under a program called Unlimited Potential. For those nations that want dual-boot models, running both Windows and Linux, the extra hardware required will add another $7 or so to the cost of the machines, Mr. Negroponte said. Simon ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [support-gang] Microsoft
Ah, Windows needs more than 1GB to be useful; so to run Windows you need to pay extra for a SD card big enough to hold it. Doesn't add any cost for Linux, which fits nicely on the internal 1GB flash. - Jim On Fri, 2008-05-16 at 02:57 +0200, Simon Schampijer wrote: from: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/technology/16laptop.html?_r=2oref=sloginoref=slogin Windows will add a bit to the price of the machines, about $3, the licensing fee Microsoft charges to some developing nations under a program called Unlimited Potential. For those nations that want dual-boot models, running both Windows and Linux, the extra hardware required will add another $7 or so to the cost of the machines, Mr. Negroponte said. Simon ___ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Jim Gettys [EMAIL PROTECTED] One Laptop Per Child ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [support-gang] Microsoft
On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 2:57 AM, Simon Schampijer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 15 May 2008, Steve Holton wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Seth Woodworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let's look at this with a slightly different lens before we blow up on NN and Microsoft. What does this agreement equate to? And what are the alternatives to Microsoft? If the XO was running a completely closed source stack with no documentation on hardware, how would the Linux community feel? They would feel that they were being shut out and not allowed to run whatever software they wanted to or develop. This is something the linux community has speared hardware companies over for years. ...and to which the free software (linux) community would respond with a reverse engineering effort, at it's own (collective) expense, and rather quickly have a solution. If turnabout is fair play, let Microsoft adopt the free software community response as well. (When Cisco modified their WRT54G hardware so that Linux could no longer run, the response was to strip-down the gnu/linux stack even more until it would run again.) It's doubtful the free software community would do what Microsoft is demanding: asking the manufacturer to add 5-10% to the cost of the hardware to facilitate their efforts, nor would the free software community charge a $3.00 license fee for the use thereafter. I missed where the hardware was being changed and the cost going up to support this. what I read was that the boot firmware was being modified so that it could dual-boot into windows. please point me at the additional cost involved. David Lang from: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/technology/16laptop.html?_r=2oref=sloginoref=slogin Windows will add a bit to the price of the machines, about $3, the licensing fee Microsoft charges to some developing nations under a program called Unlimited Potential. For those nations that want dual-boot models, running both Windows and Linux, the extra hardware required will add another $7 or so to the cost of the machines, Mr. Negroponte said. I think the extra hardware is the 2gb SD card, as XP + Office won't fit into the NAND (especially if you're dual booting...) Correct me if I'm wrong -Bobby Powers Simon ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [support-gang] Microsoft
He's not declaring a policy of ethical inaction. He made an announcement called Microsoft wherein he describes an OLPC-supported firmware modification that will allow Windows to boot on the XO-1. He p it to an OLPC mailing list. He then claimed no OLPC resources would be devoted to the project. I'm left wondering how many of those resources went into this firmware mod. No OLPC resources would be involved in porting Sugar to Windows. So his statement was true, if a bit misleading. If XO sales are so unrestricted, why can't I buy one at laptop.org? Are you willing to buy 100 or more? Will this still give us the chance to put great hardware and content into the hands of children all over the world? Yes. Hardware is useless without control. Remember when this was an education project? Where'd all *that* rhetoric go? In this country, we complain about vendor lock-in -- on everything from terrible ISO standards (remember who was behind subverting THAT open process) to our mobile phones. But this isn't some abstract problem that prevents us from using Google Maps on our Blackberries. These kids don't *have* anything else, and we should not hand control of their education over to *any* for-profit company. In fact, we should *actively oppose* the idea. Be realisitic. Our software isn't customizable beyond a hypothetical. We offer no man pages, no GCC, no source on board, and no training on how to use program. Before we can make the argument of being more customizeable we need to actually document how to change things and supply such information on the XO. A Kindle can still allow you to read a book. Is closed source as useful as open source? No. Is DRM a good thing for children in the third workd? No. But is a calculator better than nothing? Yes. Keep that in mind. But Linux and FOSS can't triumph over Microsoft by excluding them and by obfusication. We need to make a better product. I don't care who triumphs over whom. I did not donate to the OLPC foundation to fund a market-assault vector for a convicted monopolist. I'm not clear how much OLPC is benefitting from this deal, other than laptops sold. You make a good point. A large fraction of the OLPC community is going to see this as a sellout to microsoft. And as completely changing the goals of the project. A lot of developers are going to leave the project, and a lot of the community is going to leave because they care as much about FOSS in education as Laptops in Education. And that's not a bad belief. Open materials and tools are greatly superior to closed ones. With Walter Bender on his own and dedicated to bringing Sugar to every machine on a FOSS stack, and all OLPC produced software being safely GPL'ed, I feel confident that Sugar can beat out Windows. Let's focus on getting sugar and linux and what we *can* do instead of being angry. I plan on staying and producing content, translations and improvements for OLPC and for children. Sugar can't beat out Windows if it's busy running on top of Windows. I wholeheartedly believe that Sugar on a FOSS stack will preform better than Sugar on a Windows stack. And I think that this development community can prove that. Now, that proof may well happen at sugarlabs and possibly even on different hardware. I think that it is fairly safe to say that Sugarlabs isn't going to be spending a lot of time porting sugar to windows. Additionally, the Fedora, Debian and Ubuntu software environments run on the XO-1, adding support for tens of thousands of free software applications. I am terrified at the thought that the rest of this press release might be anywhere near as disingenuous as this statement. It sounds like typical marketing doublethink. The people and community of OLPC that I have worked with have been very open and truthful like a FREE AND OPEN project should be. NN however neglests to really have a dialog with the community. There is a big disconnect between the CEO and the community that supports it. This isn't how Ubuntu and Mark Shuttleworth work. However, the software we have is not ready to go against competition from Microsoft, especially with untapped emerging markets on the line. You can't fight a corporation by turning the other cheek -- much less by giving them a key to your house. Let's also remember that the OLPC project was orignally planned to be open hardware as well. If that had happened, as it should, we would be in the same boat now. Sugar on a free stack has to beat windows by it's quality. This is my goal and this is my belief. ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Microsoft
Seth Woodworth writes: So as a fair practice I think it's clear that no special actions can ethically be made to prevent Windows or any other OS from running on the machine. So a Windows port for the XO isn't something that could have been preventative. Wrong. It's called tit-for-tat, otherwise known as fair-is-fair. It's perfectly ethical to defend oneself against an adversary who has no qualms about anything. Just look at the deal. Dual-boot costs $7 extra. Governments will not pay the extra $7 to allow dual-boot. I do believe in fairness. The XO should run Windows about as well as the Xbox 360 runs Linux. Note that the Xbox 360 has numerous hardware features which were purposely designed to impede Linux. Fairness mandates that we have hardware to lock out Windows. Hardware is costly of course. A slightly weaker solution would be to have the firmware use SMM/SMI tricks to regularly get a bit of CPU time to scan for Windows in memory. If the firmware finds that Windows is running, then it silently corrupts RAM. The ideal would be to make Windows survive about an hour before crashing. (keep the feature secret of course, to make debugging painful) ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [support-gang] Microsoft
2008/5/16 Steve Holton [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Seth Woodworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] With Walter Bender on his own and dedicated to bringing Sugar to every machine on a FOSS stack, and all OLPC produced software being safely GPL'ed, I feel confident that Sugar can beat out Windows. Of course. Sugar is not dead, just OLPC. That's why the fork occurred. Steve, there is *no* fork. The reason sugarlabs.org is born is that, to be able to broaden Sugar's reach as Nicholas has pointed out in his note, we need to give it a stronger and more independent identity. There are no changes nor disagreements between the Sugar developers. And as you probably know some of them are contracted by OLPC. Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Better AP and school server icons in neighborhood view
At http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Priorities-2008 it says: MOMA animation is good to show how to get started -- specifically connecting to wifi (G1G1). The way access points are displayed doesn't give kids enough of a clue about the consequences of clicking on it -- not obvious whether it helps you get on the network, for instance. so I wondered if there could be a better design to represent both random APs and school servers. I took a very rough stab at it: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:School_server_and_ap.png The antenna is to symbolize network connectivity, and the school server icon is shaped as a house/building. What do you think of the idea, and/or do you agree that it's a good idea to make them symbolic than circles? Eduardo ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Better AP and school server icons in neighborhood view
No. Triangles are banned. (sorry Eduardo, you will probably not understand this, ignore...) Marco On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 3:30 AM, Eduardo H Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Priorities-2008 it says: MOMA animation is good to show how to get started -- specifically connecting to wifi (G1G1). The way access points are displayed doesn't give kids enough of a clue about the consequences of clicking on it -- not obvious whether it helps you get on the network, for instance. so I wondered if there could be a better design to represent both random APs and school servers. I took a very rough stab at it: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:School_server_and_ap.png The antenna is to symbolize network connectivity, and the school server icon is shaped as a house/building. What do you think of the idea, and/or do you agree that it's a good idea to make them symbolic than circles? Eduardo ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [support-gang] Microsoft
...and to which the free software (linux) community would respond with a reverse engineering effort, at it's own (collective) expense, and rather quickly have a solution. If turnabout is fair play, let Microsoft adopt the free software community response as well. The golden rule doesn't say: Treat others as you have been treated, It says to treat others as you would like to be treated. So as a fair practice I think it's clear that no special actions can ethically be made to prevent Windows or any other OS from running on the machine. So a Windows port for the XO isn't something that could have been preventative. Agree. But that's not what is being proposed. The agreement clearly includes a modification of the original principles (minimum cost for the devices) to provide a Microsoft handicap in this game. I would not call that fair practice. What is being proposed is that if you want it to run Microsoft apps then countries can pay an extra $10. This gives *them* a handycap in the game and makes it that much easier for us. Furthermore OLPC's sale of the XO hardware doesn't come with any restrictions for use. To not allow countries to install windows once they take ownership would be a completely unethical move given OLPC's commitments to freedom. OLPC has NEVER made any mention of preventing anyone (with a developer key) from installing whatever software they wanted to install on the XO, (which cannot be said of all computer system manufacturers cough*cough*XBOX*cough*cough) That's not what's being discussed here. Negroponte is taking proactive action to create a more favorable environment for Microsoft. Is OLPC making the same offer to Ubuntu? Debian? What about Red Hat? I agree. Let's start a dialog with Ubuntu! Mark Shuttleworth has mentioned OLPC favorably on this blog a few times, and much of the community has been interested in getting Ubuntu running on the XO. There is a need for a full desktop as well as a sugar UI for these machines. I run Debian on my XO personally and I would love to have a fast Xubuntu going on it. Not at all. The problem appears to be that Microsoft is asking/demanding that the OLPC principles be modified in deference to Microsoft. I don't agree with that statement. If the extra $10 is optional if countries insist on Microsoft anyway. If that's not the case (which of course isn't clear with the meager amount of information we're given) then you are right. I was under the impression the hardware manufacturers weren't loosing anything on the per-unit sales. I may very well be wrong. But I do know that Quanta isn't going to let OLPC open source the hardware schematics that they own until sale volumes are much higher. Will this still give us the chance to put great hardware and content into the hands of children all over the world? Yes. Nope. It's over. I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm not going to argue if that's the way you feel. I hope that you get involved in Sugarlabs, which is all safely GPL'd or maybe work with me on Open / Creative Commons content. There is a lot of work that can be done that can still help and not help OLPC+Microsoft. I think you are under the impression that the 'education project' has been somehow hindered by efforts aimed at *preventing* Microsoft from contributing. I do not see that as the case. Speaking as one of those 'free software fundamentalists, I can say I long ago wrote-off Microsoft and pretty much ignore what they choose to do. (They know it, and that dismissiveness is one of the things that keeps Microsoft up at night.) I don't understand how that follows? With Walter Bender on his own and dedicated to bringing Sugar to every machine on a FOSS stack, and all OLPC produced software being safely GPL'ed, I feel confident that Sugar can beat out Windows. Of course. Sugar is not dead, just OLPC. That's why the fork occurred. Sugarlabs isn't a fork. The code bases are still the same and aren't going to change. It's more like upstream sources now. Or a forking of management, not code. Let's focus on getting sugar and linux and what we *can* do instead of being angry. I plan on staying and producing content, translations and improvements for OLPC and for children. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org Seth Woodworth ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Resp.: Better AP and school server icons in neighborhood view
:) I do, I remember once APs where triangles, and someone disliked them. Eduardo 2008/5/16, Marco Pesenti Gritti [EMAIL PROTECTED]: No. Triangles are banned. (sorry Eduardo, you will probably not understand this, ignore...) Marco On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 3:30 AM, Eduardo H Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Priorities-2008 it says: MOMA animation is good to show how to get started -- specifically connecting to wifi (G1G1). The way access points are displayed doesn't give kids enough of a clue about the consequences of clicking on it -- not obvious whether it helps you get on the network, for instance. so I wondered if there could be a better design to represent both random APs and school servers. I took a very rough stab at it: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:School_server_and_ap.png The antenna is to symbolize network connectivity, and the school server icon is shaped as a house/building. What do you think of the idea, and/or do you agree that it's a good idea to make them symbolic than circles? Eduardo ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Microsoft
Wrong. It's called tit-for-tat, otherwise known as fair-is-fair. It's perfectly ethical to defend oneself against an adversary who has no qualms about anything. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. - Ghandi ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Resp.: Better AP and school server icons in neighborhood view
On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 3:36 AM, Eduardo H Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :) I do, I remember once APs where triangles, and someone disliked them. Ssssh he might be around tonight :) Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [support-gang] Microsoft
seth wrote: Of course. Sugar is not dead, just OLPC. That's why the fork occurred. Sugarlabs isn't a fork. The code bases are still the same and aren't going to change. It's more like upstream sources now. Or a forking of management, not code. devil's advocate: how would someone on the outside (of either OLPC, or sugarlabs) know that that is the case? all that has happened (from the public view of things) is that this new wiki has sprung up, claiming essentially that this is where sugar lives. there's been no announcement (that i've seen), and no corresponding announcement from OLPC, so an observer is sort of left to wonder what's going on. paul =- paul fox, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (arlington, ma, where it's 57.4 degrees) ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Microsoft
Kurt H Maier wrote: How is this relevant? When Microsoft sits down and throws its vast resources at making Windows just work on the XO-1, it's going to blow our current FOSS distributions out of the water. *That's* what worries me. We don't have suspend and resume working without breaking SD cards. We're retooling Sugar's datastore. OLPC3 is being born. A couple million dollars from Microsoft could turn out a Windows install that *works*, and then no country on the planet would bother even looking at a feature-incomplete FOSS alternative I think the way to protect Sugar and to take a step further in the whole project is giving one step back: Sugar must be able to run on any Linux distro. I know that it is hard... but IF we are able to take this step back then Sugar (and many other things) will be in better competitive position. Regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [support-gang] Microsoft
devil's advocate: how would someone on the outside (of either OLPC, or sugarlabs) know that that is the case? all that has happened (from the public view of things) is that this new wiki has sprung up, claiming essentially that this is where sugar lives. there's been no announcement (that i've seen), and no corresponding announcement from OLPC, so an observer is sort of left to wonder what's going on. The wiki's barely up. AFAIK Walter and the rest of the mailing list are still deciding what the group is and isn't. ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Providing more information on battery palette?
Intro: When I initially read Sugar HIG, I loved the palettes, because it would provide basic information on the primary, and more detailed on the secondary. While I understand that the detail provided on the secondary palette must have some limits, I also imagined that those limits would be higher than they currently are. For example, the secondary palettes for connected and unconnected APs are pretty slim, giving out the ESSID for the first and the radio channel for the second. Ok, the workload on the Sugar developers is already imense, and so going to the point of this email: Mel Chua is developping a Power Activity, which will show various statistics like voltage, amperage, wattage that the charger is currently supplying to the laptop, to help those in the field developing and using alternative energy sources to charge their laptops. In such a power-conscious laptop as the XO, I ask you, and especially Eben, if some subset of this information would be fit to have on the secondary palette of the battery. Currently, the only extra information it gives is a more fine-grained charge bar, and the time until it is discharged. Eduardo ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Firmware change (Re: Microsoft)
On May 15, 2008, at 10:39 PM, Korakurider wrote: On 5/16/08, Nicholas Negroponte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Open Firmware V2, the free and open source BIOS, is now capable of running Linux, Microsoft Windows XP and other operating systems, and was developed by Firmworks with support from OLPC. This will enable dual boot of OLPC XO laptops with Microsoft Windows XP in addition to the existing Fedora-based system and will become the standard BIOS/bootloader for all XO systems when completed. With this free BIOS, the XO-1 continues to be the most open laptop hardware currently available. I am not firmware-savvy but: what prevent windows from booting with V1 Firmware and how do they resolved it? (that is Ivan mentioned in his blog article?) Unlike Linux, Windows requires a BIOS to perform certain operations for it (ACPI, for example). OFW v1 didn't support those operations. What I would like to understand is security risk the change will give users of our linux stack. Don't we really need to be worry about that? We want to run on top of OFW v2 (or v1) because it supports our security model, whereas a plain BIOS doesn't. wad ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Problems with mesh OLPC Sur list / problemas con la malla
Hi y'all, I am double posting for I do not know whose fish this is. A teacher in Uruguay indicates issues with operating with mesh, two others confirmed they had a similar experience of random connectivity. Please help, either subscribe to OLPC-Sur to answer in Spanish or respond through either list or personally and I will translate back. Yama Translation of the original message: The problem I was mentioning is that we know the mesh in itself to work, what we have not been able to do is to achieve a collaborative activity such as you are supposed to be able to. Chat works perfectly, I connect, I see who is in the neighborhood, I invite that person and we chat; but it is very difficult with other activities. The connection is very unstable and in a group with 15-20 children there is always a couple XO that will not connect or they don't see the rest even if they are connected. We have solved this by working by pairs, but if it is supposed that the plan is one computer per child, what is proper is that each one have one, isn't it? As a sidenote, I am writing from the XO, two blocks from my house there is a school that has un punto de acceso, I am lucky I can connect!!! In the neighborhood you can see 3 points of the mesh (I do not know if that is what you call them, doesn't matter) 1, 6, 11. Generally connection works on 1. After this is established, it lasts less than half an hour and it breaks, or some XO disconnect. I want to make clear that even though the connection is random, I can choose on what mesh to connect by clicking on that point, it takes a few minutes but you can do it. Questions: Do you know how far this can be done? Are the numbers related to that radius? Why do those XOs that are in one mesh see each other but not those in another? It would be good that all the people who are connected see each other and the different points act as bridges to gather those who are farther away. In the classroom not all can connect to the same mesh so it is impossible to achieve a shared project. Another matter is that, suppose we can connect several people, chat or talk works impeccably but when we try to share activities that are like more complex such as Paint or Write (don't even mention eToys) all gets much more difficult. greeTings original message follows El problema al que hacía referencia es que conocemos el funcionamiento de la malla en sí, lo que no hemos podido lograr es realizar una actividad colaborativa tal como se supone que debería ser. El chat funciona perfectamente. me conecto, veo quién está en el vecindario, lo invito y charlamos; pero es muy difícil con las otras actividades. La conexión es muy inesatable y en un grupo de 15 o 20 niños siempre hay un par de xo que no se conectan o no ven a las demás aunque estén conectadas. Lo hemos solucionado trabajando en duplas, pero si se supone que el plan es una compu por niño, lo correcto sería que cada uno tenga la suya no? Comento que estoy escribiendo desde la olpc, a 2 cuadras de mi casa hay una escuela que tiene un access point, por suerte me puedo conectar!!! En el vecindario se ven 3 puntos de malla (no sé si así se llaman, no importa) la 1, la 6 y la 11. Por lo general la conexión se logra en la 1. Luego de establecida la misma, dura menos de media hora y se corta, o se desconectan algunas xo. Quiero aclarar que si bien la conexión es aleatoria, puedo elegir en qué malla conectarme haciendo clic en el punto, toma unos minutos pero se logra. Preguntasss: Saben en qué radio de distancia funciona? Los números se relacionan con este radio? Por qué se ven entre sí las xo que están en la misma malla y no ven a las que están en las otras? Estaría bueno que se vieran todas las personas conectadas y que los diferentes puntos hicieran de puente para captar a los que están más lejos. En el aula no todos pueden conectarse a la misma entonces es imposible realizar un trabajo compartido. Otro aspecto es que supongamos que logramos conectarnos una cuantas personas, el chat o charla funciona impecable pero cuando intentamos compartir actividades si se quiere más complejas como Pintar o Escribir (ni que hablar de Etoys), todo se dificulta. Salu2 ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Bug triaging
Ported here, with replies: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/TriageTeam I'll likely take another iteration through the bugs in ~22 hours (late tomorrow night in Boston), keeping Marco's comments in mind, so if anyone else wants to chime in before I do that, please go for it! -Mel Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Mel Chua [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure thing, Marco. (Howdy, Sugar list! I believe everyone originally cc'd on this email is on the list.) Hi Mel, I added comments in the wiki. Hope they are as useful to you as your questions have been to me :) Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
