Re: [sugar] Finale: consider merging a few fun Sugar patches?
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> * At *very* high level the patch sets looks sane. I would be >> comfortable with them going in if Scott reviews Martin set, and Martin >> reviews Scott set. >> * The patches are large and I don't think it's impossible that they >> would cause regressions. Our release manager should be aware of it and >> keep loving us if it happens. >> * I would help by getting packages in the builds and doing a bit of testing. > > * Both patches contains string additions I guess (hopefully not > changes?). Someone would have to sort that out with sayamindu and the > localization team. String addtions ?? Now ?? -sdg- -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Finale: consider merging a few fun Sugar patches?
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 01:23:57PM +0530, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: >On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> * At *very* high level the patch sets looks sane. I would be >>> comfortable with them going in if Scott reviews Martin set, and Martin >>> reviews Scott set. >>> * The patches are large and I don't think it's impossible that they >>> would cause regressions. Our release manager should be aware of it and >>> keep loving us if it happens. >>> * I would help by getting packages in the builds and doing a bit of testing. >> >> * Both patches contains string additions I guess (hopefully not >> changes?). Someone would have to sort that out with sayamindu and the >> localization team. > > >String addtions ?? Now ?? >-sdg- Sigh. I knew I was forgetting something important. I guess these can be first-on-deck for 8.2.1 then. :( Michael ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [Telepathy] ANNOUNCE: telepathy-salut 0.3.5 released
Le mercredi 17 septembre 2008 à 20:14 +0200, Morgan Collett a écrit : > For those not on the Telepathy list... And as said, on #8441 there is a backport of this fix in the rpm package which seems to fix the issue. > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Guillaume Desmottes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 18:38 > Subject: [Telepathy] ANNOUNCE: telepathy-salut 0.3.5 released > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > telepathy-salut 0.3.5 (2008-09-17) > == > The "Please don't flood my network" release. > > Tarball: > http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/releases/telepathy-salut/telepathy-salut-0.3.5.tar.gz > Signature: > http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/releases/telepathy-salut/telepathy-salut-0.3.5.tar.gz.asc > > > This release fixes an annoying bug causing Salut announcing all the OLPC > activities which are present on the network. You should consider > upgrading if they are OLPC XO's running on your network. > > Enhancements: > > * Add a test framework > > Fixes: > > * Only announce OLPC activity we actually joined (dev.laptop.org #8441) > > > > Regards, > > >G. > > ___ > Telepathy mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/telepathy > ___ > Sugar mailing list > Sugar@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar > ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Sugar-meeting REMINDER (Thursday September 18 2008 - 14.00 (UTC)) --- irc.freenode.net, #sugar-meeting
---Topics--- * keep on reviewing the list we have at ReleaseTeam/Roadmap/0.84#Goals ---Note--- we want to hand out roadmap items to people if possible. So would be nice if the developers interested would join. Best, Simon ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Reviews report
= Approved requests = to improve activity switching performance only take screenshots on activity save and close http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8432 ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Finale: consider merging a few fun Sugar patches?
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 04:05:26AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > >> On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> * At *very* high level the patch sets looks sane. I would be > >>> comfortable with them going in if Scott reviews Martin set, and Martin > >>> reviews Scott set. [...] > I guess these can be first-on-deck for 8.2.1 I'll do my review but Scott need not worry about mine since my patches are already in 0.82.1[1] and 8.2-758[2]. > Michael Martin 1. http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=sugar;a=commit;h=434ab0ce729a670a119f033386190eaf6a8827ca 2. http://mock.laptop.org/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=repos;a=commitdiff;h=e0489cd6dec4b910445f489632adb44ba136c1c1 pgpGg4oDHBi8H.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Sugar oversight board meeting reminder
Friday at 14:00UTC (10AM EST) icr.freenode.net #sugar-meeting The major topics will be follow ups on the various committees established at the last meeting. We'll also be discussing funding models and opportunities. (Please see http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/OversightBoard/Minutes for details.) -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [RELEASE] Write 58
Simon Schampijer wrote: > J.M. Maurer wrote: >> On Sun, 2008-09-14 at 13:20 +0200, J.M. Maurer wrote: >>> Changelog: >>> * Fix 6021: Write crash on buddy left >>> * Add license field to activity.info >>> >>> Bundle: http://dev.laptop.org/~uwog/Write-58.xo >> Source: http://dev.laptop.org/~uwog/Write-58.tar.bz2 >> >> Marc > > Hi Marc, > > thanks for the release! > > The tarballs need to go to this repository > http://dev.laptop.org/pub/sugar/sources/write-activity/ > > Actually there has been a sucrose-0.82 branch created ( > http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/write;a=shortlog;h=sucrose-0.82 > ) where the localizations have been committed to. Would be cool to > cherry-pick the commits from master > ( http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Git_Tips ) and do a new release. > > Extra bonus if you add a COPYING file for the fedora packaging and > http://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=460960 create a new MANIFEST :) > > - get the latest sugar-toolkit (there are some bundlebuilder fixes) > - rm the current MANIFEST in the calculate activity > - do ./setup.py fix_manifest > - release and create the new tarball > > Thanks, > Simon Done it to speed up the rawhide process. source: http://dev.laptop.org/pub/sugar/sources/write-activity/Write-59.tar.bz2 bundled: http://dev.laptop.org/~erikos/bundles/0.82.1/Write-59.xo Best, Simon ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Design Meeting REMINDER (Thursday September 18, 2008 @ 15.30 UTC) --- irc.freenode.net, #sugar-meeting
Today will mark the first biweekly design meeting on IRC. I hope to see you there. Topics: * Visual clipboard API * Advancing the Journal * Thoughts on some icons - Eben ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1v2 Activities
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 23:54, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi All, > > We need to pick the activities we ship with 8.2 when its manufactured > for G1G1 users. Management needs to sign off on the final list as early > as next week. > > Its not definitive but we want your input on what we should include. > > What do you think are the most important activities to include? > > Please pick up to 10 and put them in order of priority. > > We will tally the votes and use that as input to the decision. My votes: * Help * Chat * Browse * Read * Write * Etoys * Pippy * Record * Terminal * TamTamMini Regards Morgan ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Finale: consider merging a few fun Sugar patches?
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 3:53 AM, Sayamindu Dasgupta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > String addtions ?? Now ?? Three words: "Triangle", "Box", and "Spiral". I wonder if a compromise version of the patch might remove all the words and just use icons for the three different layouts. The words don't actually add much (except maybe for "Freeform" -- but what does that word mean, actually). --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Finale: consider merging a few fun Sugar patches?
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Martin Dengler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'll do my review but Scott need not worry about mine since my patches > are already in 0.82.1[1] and 8.2-758[2]. Hm, I'm actually a bit disappointed by this, because I'd been hoping (based on just the phrase "network feedback" which Michael used when describing your patches to me) that this was a quick fix for the "connected networks indistinguishable from unconnected network" issue in the networks view. Feedback from testers has consistently indicated that this is an issue for them (especially when they are transitioning from an old build). I'd hoped that we could come up with *some* reasonable stop gap, whether it's a halo, or a square in the center of the circle, or *something*. Boo. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Finale: consider merging a few fun Sugar patches?
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 4:57 PM, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Martin Dengler > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I'll do my review but Scott need not worry about mine since my patches >> are already in 0.82.1[1] and 8.2-758[2]. > > Hm, I'm actually a bit disappointed by this, because I'd been hoping > (based on just the phrase "network feedback" which Michael used when > describing your patches to me) that this was a quick fix for the > "connected networks indistinguishable from unconnected network" issue > in the networks view. Feedback from testers has consistently > indicated that this is an issue for them (especially when they are > transitioning from an old build). I'd hoped that we could come up > with *some* reasonable stop gap, whether it's a halo, or a square in > the center of the circle, or *something*. Boo. I agree. I think Eben liked the different icon idea. Eben, can you spec this? (keep it simple) Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Finale: consider merging a few fun Sugar patches?
Yeah, let me experiment briefly and get back to the list... - Eben On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 4:57 PM, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Martin Dengler >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> I'll do my review but Scott need not worry about mine since my patches >>> are already in 0.82.1[1] and 8.2-758[2]. >> >> Hm, I'm actually a bit disappointed by this, because I'd been hoping >> (based on just the phrase "network feedback" which Michael used when >> describing your patches to me) that this was a quick fix for the >> "connected networks indistinguishable from unconnected network" issue >> in the networks view. Feedback from testers has consistently >> indicated that this is an issue for them (especially when they are >> transitioning from an old build). I'd hoped that we could come up >> with *some* reasonable stop gap, whether it's a halo, or a square in >> the center of the circle, or *something*. Boo. > > I agree. I think Eben liked the different icon idea. Eben, can you > spec this? (keep it simple) > > Marco > ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Sugar-meeting MINUTES (Thursday September 18 2008 - 14.00 (UTC))
We made good progress on reviewing the list we have at ReleaseTeam/Roadmap/0.84#Goals * assigned owners and peers to all groups * started to assign owners to each feature You can find the orphaned items under ''Unassigned'' in each section. Give them a home! Thanks, Simon ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1v2 Activities
Hi, > Please pick up to 10 and put them in order of priority. > We will tally the votes and use that as input to the decision. So, we shipped 19 activities with G1G1v1; that means the ten activities people vote for here are likely to be a subset of that list, and we aren't learning much about what new things we should include. People replying might decide to give 20 suggestions instead of 10, or to omit original G1G1 activities from their list. - Chris. -- Chris Ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1v2 Activities
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Ball wrote: | Hi, | |> Please pick up to 10 and put them in order of priority. | |> We will tally the votes and use that as input to the decision. | | So, we shipped 19 activities with G1G1v1; that means the ten activities | people vote for here are likely to be a subset of that list, and we | aren't learning much about what new things we should include. People | replying might decide to give 20 suggestions instead of 10, or to omit | original G1G1 activities from their list. | Also, G1G1v1 shipped with the old Sugar interface, which made managing large numbers of installed Activities very difficult. By contrast, the new Sugar UI means that we could easily ship 100 Activities, with only 15 starred by default. Activities' average size on disk varies substantially, but many simpler ones are only about 100 KB, compressed. 100 Activities * 100 KB = 10 MB, or 1% of the disk. Each additional Activity provides more opportunity for exploration, and makes the experience more enjoyable, so I would advocate for shipping as many as possible. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkjSgM8ACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQ4hACfcRnjtYpakrKRa92hrsI/aIkJ m0QAmwQLe6qLvzYJBNnndfI1Wz6B8tUn =qdS2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1v2 Activities
benjamin m. schwartz wrote: > Chris Ball wrote: > | So, we shipped 19 activities with G1G1v1; that means the ten activities > | people vote for here are likely to be a subset of that list, and we > | aren't learning much about what new things we should include. People > | replying might decide to give 20 suggestions instead of 10, or to omit > | original G1G1 activities from their list. > | > > Also, G1G1v1 shipped with the old Sugar interface, which made managing > large numbers of installed Activities very difficult. By contrast, the > new Sugar UI means that we could easily ship 100 Activities, with only 15 > starred by default. Activities' average size on disk varies > substantially, but many simpler ones are only about 100 KB, compressed. > 100 Activities * 100 KB = 10 MB, or 1% of the disk. Each additional > Activity provides more opportunity for exploration, and makes the > experience more enjoyable, so I would advocate for shipping as many as > possible. i disagree, to the extent that the activities appear on the laptop in a completely unorganized fashion -- there's no real notion of topic, or testedness, or age-appropriateness. too many can make the prospect of exploring them overwhelming, especially given how long it takes to try them, and that most of the names bear almost no relation to the content. i think it's better to ship a a good representative sample, and clear instructions (somewhere -- is it at least in a pre-loaded library page?) on how to explore and get more from our wiki. paul =- paul fox, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1v2 Activities
then I'd also suggest the Xavier activity, which does: - bidding game - chat - file sharing Xavier uses cerebro directly. Tree: http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/ypod/Xavier-activity;a=summary Snapshots: http://lyme.media.mit.edu/cerebro/index.php/Image:Who.png http://lyme.media.mit.edu/cerebro/index.php/Image:What.png http://lyme.media.mit.edu/cerebro/index.php/Image:Bidding2.png (in Gnome) Pol Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Chris Ball wrote: > | Hi, > | > |> Please pick up to 10 and put them in order of priority. > | > |> We will tally the votes and use that as input to the decision. > | > | So, we shipped 19 activities with G1G1v1; that means the ten activities > | people vote for here are likely to be a subset of that list, and we > | aren't learning much about what new things we should include. People > | replying might decide to give 20 suggestions instead of 10, or to omit > | original G1G1 activities from their list. > | > > Also, G1G1v1 shipped with the old Sugar interface, which made managing > large numbers of installed Activities very difficult. By contrast, the > new Sugar UI means that we could easily ship 100 Activities, with only 15 > starred by default. Activities' average size on disk varies > substantially, but many simpler ones are only about 100 KB, compressed. > 100 Activities * 100 KB = 10 MB, or 1% of the disk. Each additional > Activity provides more opportunity for exploration, and makes the > experience more enjoyable, so I would advocate for shipping as many as > possible. > > - --Ben > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAkjSgM8ACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQ4hACfcRnjtYpakrKRa92hrsI/aIkJ > m0QAmwQLe6qLvzYJBNnndfI1Wz6B8tUn > =qdS2 > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > ___ > Devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos Graduate student Viral Communications MIT Media Lab Tel: +1 (617) 459-6058 http://www.mit.edu/~ypod/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1v2 Activities
I noticed in the new help activity there is an activity sampler of 21 activities. Are these going to be shipped? - Bert - ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Finale: consider merging a few fun Sugar patches?
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 11:43 PM, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 10:54 AM, C. Scott Ananian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 3:53 AM, Sayamindu Dasgupta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >>> String addtions ?? Now ?? >> >> Three words: "Triangle", "Box", and "Spiral". >> >> I wonder if a compromise version of the patch might remove all the >> words and just use icons for the three different layouts. The words >> don't actually add much (except maybe for "Freeform" -- but what does >> that word mean, actually). > > OK, attached is a screenshot of a word-less version; further > discussion at http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7685 > --scott Looks good :-). Probably Eben should make the call now . Cheers, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Design Meeting MINUTES (Thursday September 18, 2008 @ 15.30 UTC)
Our first design meeting was a bit more technical than anticipated, but we did make some progress. Minutes can be found here: http://sugarlabs.org/go/DesignTeam/Meetings#Thursday_September_18.2C_2008_-_15.30_.28UTC.29 Thanks to all that participated! - Eben ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Design Meeting MINUTES
Regarding Icon Reviews: Access Point: > The proposal discussed wraps the former AP icon (the circle) in "parenthesis" I'm in favor of such a visual indication for "AP connected". > alternate designs were proposed This brings up the whole topic of the status of the connection to the school server: At the moment, I myself am not clear on the purpose of the Neighborhood View vs. the Frame. One possible interpretation is that the Neighborhood View shows things the kid could act with in the FUTURE (e.g., select an AP for his connection to the internet), whereas the Frame shows the status of things in the PRESENT (e.g., the characteristics of an existing AP connection). In particular, it is not clear to me whether (in the overall Sugar design) if there is a currently selected AP, then that AP __MUST__ be how the kid accesses his school server. - If the answer is 'yes', all that is needed is a "binary" visual indicator for the school server - if it is present, then the kid is connected to the (backup repository at) school; if it is absent, the kid does not have a connection to the school server. [The characteristics of HOW the kid is connected to the school would be shown on the existing "connection" icon in the Frame.] - If the answer is 'no' (e.g., if the kid can be connected to the school using one IP address, and be connected to the internet / his buddies through a different IP address), then a "fancier" visual indicator ought to be used to identify the connection to the school. I believe that "connected to the school server" should be an explicit visual signal presented to the kid. Whether that signal should be presented in the Frame only, needs to be discussed. mikus ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Supporting desktop applications, extending the EWMH spec
Hello all, Marco and I have been discussing on how to make a window manager like Metacity fit into the Sugar environment, and based on our current discussions, as well as past discussions, it seems clear that we need changes to the Extended Window Manager Hints spec[1]. For details on why we want to do that, take a look at the first draft of the proposal at http://dev.laptop.org/~sayamindu/sugar_metacity/draft_1.txt The simplest way to do this is mentioned in the draft, namely, to have a new _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE hint, called _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_NETBOOK_APP (feel free to suggest a better name :-P). All sugar activities are hinted as _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_NETBOOK_APP, and the window manager maximizes and undecorates them. However, Marco suggests that for applications like Firefox, or Thunderbird, we may actually want them to be in maximized+undecorated in Sugar as well, to maximize screen real estate usage. In such a situation, things become a bit more complicated. Marco suggests a double hint, some thing like _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_NORMAL | _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_APPLICATION. In a "normal" desktop environment the second _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_APPLICATION will not have any effect, but in Sugar, _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_APPLICATION will be honoured, and windows having this hint will be maximized + undecorated. However, this brings up two problems a) applications like firefox will need to be modified so that they set the _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_APPLICATION hint (ideally we would like to run the applications unmodified). b) one of the major reasons why we can do away with the decorations in case of sugar activities is that they are designed to work well without decorations (eg: a large close button on the window itself). otoh, most desktop applications do not have this, and the close button is usually somewhere hidden in the menu. In some cases the close button may not be accessible at all (eg: a rogue popup in firefox which somehow circumvents the popup blocker and disables the menubar). Note that this is a problem with the existing Firefox activity as well. We would like to have inputs and suggestions on this issue before going ahead and making a proposal to the EWMH maintainers. Thanks, Sayamindu [1] http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/wm-spec-1.3.html -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Supporting desktop applications, extending the EWMH spec
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 10:07 PM, Sayamindu Dasgupta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >a) applications like firefox will need to be modified so that they set >the _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_APPLICATION hint (ideally we would like to run >the applications unmodified). The idea would be that applications would just these this hint upstream, if they are designed in a way that makes them compatible with running "fullscreen". > b) one of the major reasons why we can do away with the decorations in > case of sugar activities is that they are designed to work well > without decorations (eg: a large close button on the window itself). > otoh, most desktop applications do not have this, and the close button > is usually somewhere hidden in the menu. In some cases the close > button may not be accessible at all (eg: a rogue popup in firefox > which somehow circumvents the popup blocker and disables the menubar). > Note that this is a problem with the existing Firefox activity as > well. We might actually move the close button into the frame in one of the next release... (Don't take this as arguing for the approach _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_APPLICATION, it's tricky, I'm not sure what's better really.) Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Supporting desktop applications, extending the EWMH spec
Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: > The simplest way to do this is mentioned in the draft, namely, to have > a new _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE hint, called _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_NETBOOK_APP > (feel free to suggest a better name :-P). I do not understand at all why _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_FULLSCREEN is insufficient. For example, try (under Metacity) launching Firefox and then pressing F11 to go into Fullscreen mode. This results in a full-screen, undecorated window that seems to behave exactly as we desire full-screen Sugar apps to behave. Here is a quick experiment I did to compare Firefox when Maximized and Fullscreen. $ xprop > /tmp/full.txt $ xprop > /tmp/max.txt $ diff -u /tmp/max.txt /tmp/full.txt --- /tmp/max.txt2008-09-18 16:38:49.0 -0400 +++ /tmp/full.txt 2008-09-18 16:38:33.0 -0400 @@ -3,10 +3,10 @@ WM_STATE(WM_STATE): window state: Normal icon window: 0x0 -_NET_FRAME_EXTENTS(CARDINAL) = 0, 0, 25, 1 +_NET_FRAME_EXTENTS(CARDINAL) = 0, 0, 0, 0 _NET_WM_DESKTOP(CARDINAL) = 0 -_NET_WM_ALLOWED_ACTIONS(ATOM) = _NET_WM_ACTION_MOVE, _NET_WM_ACTION_RESIZE, _NET_WM_ACTION_FULLSCREEN, _NET_WM_ACTION_MINIMIZE, _NET_WM_ACTION_SHADE, _NET_WM_ACTION_MAXIMIZE_HORZ, _NET_WM_ACTION_MAXIMIZE_VERT, _NET_WM_ACTION_CHANGE_DESKTOP, _NET_WM_ACTION_CLOSE, _NET_WM_ACTION_ABOVE, _NET_WM_ACTION_BELOW -_NET_WM_STATE(ATOM) = _NET_WM_STATE_MAXIMIZED_HORZ, _NET_WM_STATE_MAXIMIZED_VERT +_NET_WM_ALLOWED_ACTIONS(ATOM) = _NET_WM_ACTION_FULLSCREEN, _NET_WM_ACTION_MINIMIZE, _NET_WM_ACTION_CHANGE_DESKTOP, _NET_WM_ACTION_CLOSE, _NET_WM_ACTION_ABOVE, _NET_WM_ACTION_BELOW +_NET_WM_STATE(ATOM) = _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN WM_HINTS(WM_HINTS): Client accepts input or input focus: True Initial state is Normal State. ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Supporting desktop applications, extending the EWMH spec
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: | ... _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_FULLSCREEN ... That should be _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN. Oops, Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkjSvfMACgkQUJT6e6HFtqRgwQCfaOj++xeB6DNjk3raFu+ZIicp g/oAoImzaINzdSSsaVNtsTyQd1LQc6Yy =p/Mn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] [RELEASE] etoys-3.0.2153
http://dev.laptop.org/pub/sugar/sources/etoys/etoys-3.0.2153.tar.gz * enable Pango for unknown locales (#8530) * fix composite character input (#8531) * fix camera not working in some locales (#8540) * releases sound device in WorldStethoscope (#8541) * preserve meta data in Journal (#8550) - Bert - ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Supporting desktop applications, extending the EWMH spec
On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 2:12 AM, Benjamin M. Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: >> >> The simplest way to do this is mentioned in the draft, namely, to have >> a new _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE hint, called _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_NETBOOK_APP >> (feel free to suggest a better name :-P). > > I do not understand at all why _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_FULLSCREEN is > insufficient. For example, try (under Metacity) launching Firefox and then > pressing F11 to go into Fullscreen mode. This results in a full-screen, > undecorated window that seems to behave exactly as we desire full-screen > Sugar apps to behave. > > Here is a quick experiment I did to compare Firefox when Maximized and > Fullscreen. > $ xprop > /tmp/full.txt > $ xprop > /tmp/max.txt > $ diff -u /tmp/max.txt /tmp/full.txt > --- /tmp/max.txt2008-09-18 16:38:49.0 -0400 > +++ /tmp/full.txt 2008-09-18 16:38:33.0 -0400 > @@ -3,10 +3,10 @@ > WM_STATE(WM_STATE): >window state: Normal >icon window: 0x0 > -_NET_FRAME_EXTENTS(CARDINAL) = 0, 0, 25, 1 > +_NET_FRAME_EXTENTS(CARDINAL) = 0, 0, 0, 0 > _NET_WM_DESKTOP(CARDINAL) = 0 > -_NET_WM_ALLOWED_ACTIONS(ATOM) = _NET_WM_ACTION_MOVE, _NET_WM_ACTION_RESIZE, > _NET_WM_ACTION_FULLSCREEN, _NET_WM_ACTION_MINIMIZE, _NET_WM_ACTION_SHADE, > _NET_WM_ACTION_MAXIMIZE_HORZ, _NET_WM_ACTION_MAXIMIZE_VERT, > _NET_WM_ACTION_CHANGE_DESKTOP, _NET_WM_ACTION_CLOSE, _NET_WM_ACTION_ABOVE, > _NET_WM_ACTION_BELOW > -_NET_WM_STATE(ATOM) = _NET_WM_STATE_MAXIMIZED_HORZ, > _NET_WM_STATE_MAXIMIZED_VERT > +_NET_WM_ALLOWED_ACTIONS(ATOM) = _NET_WM_ACTION_FULLSCREEN, > _NET_WM_ACTION_MINIMIZE, _NET_WM_ACTION_CHANGE_DESKTOP, > _NET_WM_ACTION_CLOSE, _NET_WM_ACTION_ABOVE, _NET_WM_ACTION_BELOW > +_NET_WM_STATE(ATOM) = _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN > WM_HINTS(WM_HINTS): >Client accepts input or input focus: True >Initial state is Normal State. > Some of our activities have a separate fullscreen mode. Take a look at the two screenshots of record: Fullscreen: http://dev.laptop.org/~sayamindu/sugar_metacity/Captura%20de%20pantalla_1.png Normal: http://dev.laptop.org/~sayamindu/sugar_metacity/Captura%20de%20pantalla_1_2.png Marco suggest that this can be worked around in sugar though. However, though we do not always show frames (or panels), there are some environments which show at least a single panel all the time (eg: Ubuntu Netbook Remix). In those cases, fullscreen might mean that frame may have to be covered as well. Who knows, maybe in the future sugar may also decide to show a single frame permanently on the screen. Thanks, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Supporting desktop applications, extending the EWMH spec
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 11:02 PM, Sayamindu Dasgupta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Some of our activities have a separate fullscreen mode. Take a look at > the two screenshots of record: > > Fullscreen: > http://dev.laptop.org/~sayamindu/sugar_metacity/Captura%20de%20pantalla_1.png > Normal: > http://dev.laptop.org/~sayamindu/sugar_metacity/Captura%20de%20pantalla_1_2.png > > Marco suggest that this can be worked around in sugar though. Yeah this could be handled differently in Sugar. > However, though we do not always show frames (or panels), there are > some environments which show at least a single panel all the time (eg: > Ubuntu Netbook Remix). In those cases, fullscreen might mean that > frame may have to be covered as well. Who knows, maybe in the future > sugar may also decide to show a single frame permanently on the > screen. I'm not even sure why it works with the current frame... The wm is supposed fullscreen windows on the top of docks: http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/wm-spec-1.3.html#STACKINGORDER Another point is that Sugar activities would have to be modified to run correctly on a normal desktop (or we would have to come up with some logic to set the fullscreen hint conditionally). Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Supporting desktop applications, extending the EWMH spec
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: |> However, though we do not always show frames (or panels), there are |> some environments which show at least a single panel all the time (eg: |> Ubuntu Netbook Remix). In those cases, fullscreen might mean that |> frame may have to be covered as well. Who knows, maybe in the future |> sugar may also decide to show a single frame permanently on the |> screen. This is an interesting problem, but it is not relevant for Sugar at this time. I think a discussion with the Ubuntu developers would be wonderful, but since we do not have such a semi-permanent bar in Sugar, we can implement all our desired behaviors using simply the existing EWMH. | | I'm not even sure why it works with the current frame... The wm is | supposed fullscreen windows on the top of docks: | | http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/wm-spec-1.3.html#STACKINGORDER For usability/security reasons, the Frame must always be on top, regardless of what hints an Activity sets on its windows, so we cannot follow this recommended stacking order. The window manager will have to enforce the ordering, eventually in conjunction with a real X security framework. | Another point is that Sugar activities would have to be modified to | run correctly on a normal desktop (or we would have to come up with | some logic to set the fullscreen hint conditionally). Running Sugar Activities in a standard desktop environment is something that we have not discussed enough. It's important to remember that Activities (e.g. Write) require Sugar's UI to load files, save files, join shared instances, monitor current sharing partners, etc. Activities will never run on a bare desktop; they will always require a launcher shell, even if it is much less comprehensive than a full Sugar shell. This shell can also be responsible for setting window hints appropriately, or for providing Activities with enough information about the environment for them to set appropriate window hints. In summary, I believe we can safely move to a lightly patched Metacity while tagging our windows purely according to the EWMH. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkjSyWYACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQSfgCfWR0riur6iMJiqxSkRmkY+mu8 3MAAn1iM/D2RX+aivuljZPLyqvFM8ytd =i782 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Supporting desktop applications, extending the EWMH spec
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 11:34 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In summary, I believe we can safely move to a lightly patched Metacity > while tagging our windows purely according to the EWMH. That would mean to make Sugar impossible to use on a standard distribution. Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Supporting desktop applications, extending the EWMH spec
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: | On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 11:34 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: |> In summary, I believe we can safely move to a lightly patched Metacity |> while tagging our windows purely according to the EWMH. | | That would mean to make Sugar impossible to use on a standard distribution. You mean because it would make Sugar depend on a nonstandard branch of Metacity? I can understand why distributions might be reluctant to carry such a thing. Let's keep thinking about this. For example, I wonder what Metacity does to a window that is both _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN and _NET_WM_STATE_BELOW? Does it stack it below the Frame, if the Frame is _NET_WM_TYPE_DOCK and _NET_WM_STATE_ABOVE? If not, could we convince the Metacity developers that this is a good idea? What about making Activities run as _NET_WM_TYPE_DESKTOP? How does Metacity handle multiple DESKTOP windows? (It probably isn't happy about them...) EWMH specifies a _NET_RESTACK_WINDOW message. Could Sugar, acting as a pager, send this message to Metacity at appropriate times to raise the Frame to the top, above FULLSCREEN windows? It may be that we can find a way to make this work under stock Metacity if we're creative. If not, Metacity is under very active development. Perhaps we can find a small change that resolves our problem and is satisfying to upstream Metacity. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkjS0nwACgkQUJT6e6HFtqT9CQCgoNuyrq73SGUwzfvW/E2JHWhN 8sAAn1YDg6ro9fCc3W2E3OiyUXZ8rnYk =/BHQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Supporting desktop applications, extending the EWMH spec
On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Benjamin M. Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > | On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 11:34 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz > | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > |> In summary, I believe we can safely move to a lightly patched Metacity > |> while tagging our windows purely according to the EWMH. > | > | That would mean to make Sugar impossible to use on a standard > distribution. > > You mean because it would make Sugar depend on a nonstandard branch of > Metacity? I can understand why distributions might be reluctant to carry > such a thing. Yup. I will look into your proposal/discussion tomorrow. My brain is pretty much dead at the moment :) Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Any idea why ./setup fix_manifest should auto delete my locale directory?
Any idea why running "./setup fix_manifest" should be auto deleting my locale directory? Seems a little mean spirited of it - doesn't warn me or anything. --Gary ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1v2 Activities
On 19 Sep 2008, at 00:13, Douglas Bagnall wrote: > (AFAICT) we're limited to: > > XaoS - org.codewiz.XaoS > Sokoban - de.hpi.swa.Sokoban > Pipes- de.hpi.swa.Pipes > Bounce - bounce > Chat - org.laptop.Chat > DrGeoII - org.ofset.DrGeoII > Breakout - de.hpi.swa.Breakout > Funtowers- de.hpi.swa.Funtowers > DiceWars - de.hpi.swa.DiceWars > X activity - org.laptop.wiki.XActivity > StackAttack - de.hpi.swa.StackAttack > Joke Machine - org.worldwideworkshop.JokeMachineActivity > Sokobaenle - de.hpi.swa.Sokobaenle > BlockAttack - de.hpi.swa.BlockAttack > Abalone - de.hpi.swa.Abalone > SameGame - de.hpi.swa.SameGame > > > Not that it really matters, of course. Meow, ooh ouch ;-) > Most activities fail by having no bundle_id, and only 36/115 have > host_version. Perhaps correcting http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_tutorial would help? I'm showing my age here, but is bundle_id a replacement for service_name? Seem to be identical. OK, well... I 'think' Moon-5 can now go on your shiny happy list – available from the the Activities wiki page or get it fresh via the Control Panel software updater if you already have a previous version. However, any hints would be much appreciated as to what this last remaining setup.py WARNING is trying to tell me? WARNING:root:bundle_name deprecated, now comes from activity.info I've not had much luck tracking it down, and I make no reference to bundle_name in my code. --Gary ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1v2 Activities
Howdy. This G1G1v1 user's top ten list: 1. Help (wish it was on my xo when I first got it) 2. Terminal 3. Browse (with Adobe Flash not Gnash) 4. Write (with keybindings mod to AbiWord) 5. Develop 6. Read 7. Pippy 8. E-Toys 9. News Reader 10. xoIRC Bubbling under the top ten are the stand alone Library activity and Walter's Gmail2 when ready for prime time. Even though they're not 'activities', both yum and mc have been very useful. Since the new Sugar Control Panel lets the end user pick which activities to install with the updater, I don't think it's too important how many are shipped. ¡Gracias! genesee -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/G1G1v2-Activities-tp1096679p1099949.html Sent from the OLPC Sugar mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1v2 Activities
Gary C Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Perhaps correcting http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_tutorial would > help? Good point -- done, at least for host_version and bundle_id. As it happens the actually published HelloWorld activity is one of the worst offenders, having no activity_version. That might even break things. > I'm showing my age here, but is bundle_id a replacement for > service_name? Seem to be identical. It is, they are. I'm not sure why it changed, and all the code I've seen tries both, but the spec is adamant (that's http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles). > OK, well... I 'think' Moon-5 can now go on your shiny happy list – Yes! I've got no idea about that bundle_name warning, sorry. Douglas ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1v2 Activities
douglas wrote: > Gary C Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Perhaps correcting http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_tutorial would >> help? > > Good point -- done, at least for host_version and bundle_id. As it > happens the actually published HelloWorld activity is one of the > worst offenders, having no activity_version. That might even break > things. > > > I'm showing my age here, but is bundle_id a replacement for > > service_name? Seem to be identical. > > It is, they are. I'm not sure why it changed, and all the code I've > seen tries both, but the spec is adamant (that's > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles). huh. here's where it changed, almost a year ago: http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Activity_bundles&diff=69258&oldid=69078 paul =- paul fox, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
