Re: [sugar] [Sugar-devel] OLPC + Sugar
Yamandu Ploskonka wrote: Ed mentions three legs. Then, in a Mandelbrothian nightmare each seems to grow quite a few more, and it's often hard to keep track and to know who actually, if any, has any decision-making power for any specific purpose, what are the teams, how do they connect, where do assorted flavors of community intersect... Congratulations, Yama! The above deserves being part of my personal collection of quotes, side by side with Einstein, Gandhi, George Bernard Shaw, Linus Torvalds... -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] notes on 8.2.0, specifically 767 (was 8.2.1)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Firefox 2 and 3 are only slightly sugarized. GS - True. It is what it is and no plans to make big changes here AFAIK. greg -- i think you answered your own question. the issues raised in that linked email are a result of firefox not being fully sugarized. it might be possible to improve their behavior, but this falls squarely under the big make traditional X11 apps work better under sugar umbrella. We already have a Sugarized version of Firefox: Browse. But people complained the interface didn't look and behave like Firefox. So now we provide a Firefox activity, but people complain it's not sugarized enough!!! We can't win this game ;-) -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Fwd: Roadmap update
[cc += sugar-devel@ -- when do we close the old list?] Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 5:13 PM, David Farning [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This ends up being an excellent division of responsibility. OLPC can focus their resources more heavily on specific deployment issues. Sugar Labs can take a more innovative and upstream footing. For the record, I agree :) It's going to be painful in the short time, but it's the right thing to do and I'm confident the Sugar community will succeed in it. *But* everyone needs to do a big effort to make this division of responsibility clear and transparent, *PLEASE*. +1. As usual, we need a *clear* public statement from OLPC management. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] OLPC Afghanistan
Ebtihaj Obaidi wrote: Hi dears. finally OLPC Afghanistan started its official work from Afghanistan. For details just visit: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/One_Laptop_Per_Child_Afghanistan OR http://www.olpc.blogsky.com Are any of you going to hack on the Sugar codebase? If so, let us know if there's anything we can do to assist. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Closing this list
Morgan Collett wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:38, Marco Pesenti Gritti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, as previously announced we have a now an upstream mailing list for Sugar development: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/ My suggestion would be to close sugar@lists.laptop.org and have the few distribution specific discussions in [EMAIL PROTECTED] *If* there is full consensus we might also consider to copy the subscriber list of sugar@lists.laptop.org to [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1 from me. +1 from me too. Next Monday I'll ask the admins at 1CC if we can move the existing subscribers and maybe add a redirect. What might help is to list the lists in a discoverable place on the wikis, showing clearly which list is appropriate for what, since we are getting support questions on iaep etc. Well the list of all public lists is here: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/ Each list already comes with its own description, but feel free to propose changes. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] Sugar Camp - Friday Nov 21
David Farning wrote: As you can see, the schedule for sugarcamp has been updated. Here: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugarcamp/Schedule#Friday_the_21st People who could not attend, we also have some photos from Ryan: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugarcamp/Photos and slides for the presentations: http://sugarlabs.org/go/MarketingTeam/Presentations -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] On OLPC and Sugar collaboration (Was: Schedule for SugarCamp?)
Bernie Innocenti wrote: I know you'll find this split controversial, but this is what a lot of people asked for. I also think defining independent -- but interoperable -- roadmaps will result in higher quality results. We can ensure that periodic (or continuous) integration is part of the equation. One important clarification on my stand for those who read from remote (Scott knows these things already): * I strongly feel that OLPC and Sugar Labs should remain independent entities, but collaborate closely; * I often visit the OLPC headquarters to talk with people and work on Sugar Labs related stuff. As a result, I hope, some of our reciprocal misunderstandings have been cleared; * We expressly welcome any OLPC employee or contractor as a member of the Sugar community -- we already have 2 OLPC chairs in the board; * When I and the other Sugar developers say Sugar, we intend the Sucrose modules as defined here: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy; Not the whole OS distro with Sugar installed on it. Surprisingly, naming has been a major source of confusion! * From a governance PoV: regardless of who handed the individual paychecks, the Sugar team has functioned for over 2 years as an self-sufficient unit. They are all senior engineers, with Marco being their lead and the interface OLPC can use for feature requests. * From a branding PoV: in order for Sugar to attract a wider user and developer base, it needs to stop looking like a subproduct of OLPC. * From an engineering PoV: like any medium/large scale project, Sugar needs more regular, more predictable, time-based releases. This does not necessarily make it harder to meet the requirements of its primary downstream distributor. Scott and I disagree on the last 2 points. Although I trust we both want Sugar to live long and prosper. A few months ago, there was a lot of flaming about Sugar 0.82.0 being released too early, or being too buggy, or lacking some features desired by OLPC. Part of this criticism is certainly funded: 0.82 was the first release cycle entirely coordinated Sugar Labs. But many would agree that 0.82 was a *huge* leap forward done in just 6 months by a very resource constraint team of 3 full-time developers. If we plan well at the meeting and then follow the plan closely, next release will roll out much smoother. And if, as a result of new partnerships, we could put a few more people working on Sugar, things would progress a lot faster. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] On OLPC and Sugar collaboration (Was: Schedule for SugarCamp?)
Bernie Innocenti wrote: * When I and the other Sugar developers say Sugar, we intend the Sucrose modules as defined here: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy; Not the whole OS distro with Sugar installed on it. Surprisingly, naming has been a major source of confusion! If we asked Stallman, he'd certainly say we should call the whole OS distribution OLPC/Sugar :-) -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Updated Sugarcamp schedule
I cleaned it up a bit more and beautified it a little for readability: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugarcamp/Schedule We have left all of Tuesday free for additional talks and brainstorms. If you'd like to have one, just edit the wiki and grab a slot for yourself. We also have re-allocatable time on Monday afternoon and Saturday morning. If you have a presentation on Wednesday and you feel it's inadequately compressed, feel free to move it elsewhere. Please, note that some OLPC employees might not make it for Monday and Tuesday. Also note that members of the Sugar Labs oversight board will have planning and strategy meetings on Friday afternoon. During all the free hacking sessions, we could as well have brainstorms in nearby rooms. Please add those in the rightmost column. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] Schedule for SugarCamp?
Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: I think the idea is that the speaker manages their half hour... giving one or more of their talks on http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugarcamp/Proposals. For a better schedule, I think it would be good if each speaker would add the title of their talk on the wiki page. Yes, please. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] Schedule for SugarCamp?
C. Scott Ananian wrote: Please reserve the 3pm-5pm Thursday time slot for the roadmap meeting; I've gotten people to clear their schedules for that slot already. I've left it there, and split it in two parts: 15-17: Brainstorm: OLPC 9.1 draft roadmap and priorities 17-19 Brainstorm: Sugar 0.84 roadmap and priorities Ed McNierney is leading the first, Marco the second. The Sugar roadmap comes last so we can use the OLPC requirements as input for finer-grained tasks impacting Sugar. I know you'll find this split controversial, but this is what a lot of people asked for. I also think defining independent -- but interoperable -- roadmaps will result in higher quality results. We can ensure that periodic (or continuous) integration is part of the equation. I would decompress the talks on multiple days, keeping into account that the OLPC developers might have to leave at any time to assist with G1G1. I'd prefer the Wed talks not be decompressed. But +1 on claiming other slots via wiki. How about moving talks that are less interesting to OLPC people to Monday and Tueday? I'm thinking things like Sugar Labs Infrastructure, etc. Secondly, I suppose Tuesday after hours, when OLPC employees could attend freely, would be a good time to reallocate more of those talks. Also, what are these talks with no title you scheduled Tuesday after dinner? 1900 Marco Gritti / Michael Stone 2000 C. Scott Ananian / Tomeu Vizoso -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] Sugar Camp Cambridge 17-21 Nov
Bernie Innocenti wrote: Walter is looking for another place for Thursday and Friday. We can probably use the Media Lab for the weekend. Walter just confirmed another meeting room at CIC for Thu and Fri. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] Sugar Camp Cambridge 17-21 Nov
Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: Christian Schmidt is interested to come and give a talk and hold a brainstorming session about UI. Saturday would work best for him, can we reserve a slot of the schedule for it? Great! Please, update the list of proposals with these details. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] Sugar Camp Cambridge 17-21 Nov
Brendan R. Powers wrote: I would like to propose a discussion on making the collaboration a bit more standards compliant. The idea would be to get sugar to function more like a standard jabber IM client, as well as using existing standards in place of some of the custom solutions used now (xmlrpc instead of dbus perhaps?). I would also like to talk about using the colaboration API to talk to external services not on the jabber network(a moodle server for instance). As well as a possibly a few API changes to make these sorts of services easier to access for activity developers. Having a standards base and flexible collaboration framework that extends beyond the sugar ecosystem offers some very interesting possibilities. I would also like to discuss some of the jabber scalability problems, as well as how we manage grouping students into classes, and collaborating with other schools over the internet. If people thinks this is a good idea for discussion I will add it to the wiki. By all means, yes! Make sure you also involve Martin Langhoff (school server architect) and either Morgan Collet or Robert McQueen (not sure who of them worked more on the Sugar/Jabber integration). Cc'ing them all :-) -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] Sugar Camp Cambridge 17-21 Nov
Brendan R. Powers wrote: It would be great to talk about sugar in ltsp environments. I think that the jabber, and ltsp stuff are mostly 2 different issues, although they have some things in common. I could put them both down on the wiki, and we could just talk about one after the other. David Van Assche (cc'd) has already been working in this direction, although I'm not sure he can make it for the Sugarcamp. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] add xcompmgr to the olpc-development stream builds
Erik Garrison wrote: I have attached a patch to bin/sugar.in which launches xcompmgr prior to starting matchbox. I have not tested this as I don't have a recent build of Sugar to test on an XO. In 8.2 it was possible to achieve the same result by adding a hook to main.py. On IRC I said we'd be better off moving this to olpc-session, so the Sugar codebase should stay clear of platform-specific support. However, I noticed we also run the window manager from there and it would make a lot of sense to keep the composing manager next to it. Some modern window managers even do both things. Perhaps these things should be moved to olpc-session? Either way, it could be done at a later point with a separate patch. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] OpenID in the wiki
Hello, we now have OpenID authentication on http://sugarlabs.org/ . Our OpenID implementation is advertised both as a client and a server, but . == OpenID client == First of all, how do you get an OpenID? Surprise! You might already have one! See: http://openid.net/get/ To use it, just click the login with openid link in the top-right corner of the page. If you are already logged in, log off first. The client implementation does not seem to support HTTP redirects (as in http://codewiz.org/), but delegation (as in http://www.codewiz.org/wiki) works nicely. == OpenID server == The server should theoretically allow you to use the URL to your user page (http://sugarlabs.org/go/User:YOURNAME) to authenticate on other OpenID-enabled sites. I couldn't get it to work with SourceForge, but I have high hopes it would interoperate across two MediaWiki instances. Another annoyance is that, after you've bound your account to an external OpenID provider, you can't use your user page any longer to authenticate against sites. This binding seems to be permanent, and undoing it might require deleting the corresponding database record. OpenID is still a somewhat immature standard, but it shows promise and, more importantly, it's being adopted in several high profile sites. == Way forward == I'm available to help install and configure the extension across the laptop.org wikis, so we can share authentication. I will also look into OpenID plugins for Trac and the other web applications we currently use. I've also cc'd the author of the OpenID MediaWiki extension in case he can help clarify some of the issues described above. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Sugar Camp Cambridge 17-21 Nov
Hello, while the exact schedule is still being work out, we now have a confirmed location: Training Room, 5th floor, Cambridge Innovation Center http://www.cictr.com/about.html The room -- courtesy of Open Learning Exchange (http://www.ole.org/) -- can host up to 45 people and is equipped with a 1024x768 projector, a huge whiteboard. Open wi-fi will be available, along with some yummy snacks from a nearby kitchen (mens sana in corpore sano). It is booked for these dates: Mon 17 12:00 - 17:00 Tue 189:00 - 17:00 Wed 199:00 - 17:00 We can probably stay after hours -- to be confirmed. Otherwise, we'll just head to a pub with free wi-fi and continue from there ;-) Walter is looking for another place for Thursday and Friday. We can probably use the Media Lab for the weekend. Participants please updarte the wiki with your ETA and whether you still need accommodation: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugarcamp Mel, SJ and C.Scott: let's have a meeting tomorrow @ 2PM to partition the available time between Sugar talks, Sugar Labs marketing, OLPC employee meetings and the much anticipated Sugar hackathon. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Sugar Camp Cambridge 17-21 Nov
Bernie Innocenti wrote: Participants please updarte the wiki with your ETA and whether you still need accommodation: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugarcamp If it wasn't sufficiently clear, participation is open to any OLPC and Sugar volunteer. We have the drinks, just bring some patches. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] November meeting
Tomeu Vizoso wrote: I would like to propose that we have a talk about this in the few next days. What about tomorrow at 17.00 UTC in #sugar-meeting at FreeNode? Scott, Michael, Chris: you are the people that are pushing stronger for this meetings to happen, is that time right for you? I have a meeting tomorrow at 17.00 UTC (10.00 EST). Can we postpone to 20.00 UTC? -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Sugar USB testing
Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Caroline Meeks I posted my notes from the visit to Fenway today: http://schoolkey.net/blog/2008/10/08/first-meeting-with-future-engineers-at-fenway-high-school Very exciting, thanks for posting it! We should get your blog on planet.sugarlabs.org http://planet.sugarlabs.org. That would be cool Bernie, can we add Caroline blog to the planet? Done, but the xml feed only provides abridged versions of the posts, without pictures: http://schoolkey.net/blog/rss/rss.xml Caroline, is there a better link we could use? Also, do you have a small avatar icon we could put next to your blog entries? -- \___/ Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ _| X | Sugar Labs Team - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ \|_O_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] rendering test
Michel Dänzer wrote: As a result of ee7c684f21d, the PutImage hook in ShmFuncs is no longer being used. Shall I commit a cleanup? ShmPutImage is still accelerated though (also, that commit is only in 1.5, not 1.4). What kind of cleanup do you have in mind? Remove the unused PutImage hook from the ShmFuncs structure. Also maybe move the whole structure definition in the xserver as it doesn't seem like something that belongs to the public xextproto interface. -- \___/ Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ _| X | Sugar Labs Team - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ \|_O_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] rendering test
Michel Dänzer wrote: On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 18:46 +0200, Bernie Innocenti wrote: Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Riccardo Lucchese [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 12:43 +0200, Riccardo Lucchese wrote: * build 703, xorg driver = amd, redraws = 200 - pixbuf: 98.63s 96.96s 96.58s 97.14s 99.21s * build 703, xorg driver = fbdev, redraws = 200 - pixbuf: 55.81s 55.40s 55.22s 55.50s 55.63s * build 2489, xorg driver = amd, redraws = 200 - pixbuf: 84.21s 84.81s 81.94s 81.79s 85.29s * build 2489, xorg driver = fbdev, redraws = 200 - pixbuf: 62.83s 62.81s 62.81s 62.66s 63.14s - joyride regressed sensibly at rendering with cairo since 703 - rendering pixbufs is extremely slow on the xo - server side surfaces are awesome ;) and btw why is fbdev faster than the geode driver at rendering pixbufs ? My performance tests with X 1.3 and 1.4 had shown that turning on EXA makes many operations slower. It's hard to tell why, but it might have to do with loosing XShmPut() (MIT shared memory), EXA does support XShmPutImage(), just not SHM pixmaps. I was remembering the code. As a result of ee7c684f21d, the PutImage hook in ShmFuncs is no longer being used. Shall I commit a cleanup? Also note that the fbdev driver by default uses a shadow framebuffer in system RAM and only updates the visible screen contents at regular intervals. It might be fairer to compare with Option ShadowFB off, at least assuming the amd driver provides other desirable features the fbdev driver can't provide. Riccardo, could you try that? -- \___/ Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ _| X | Sugar Labs Team - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ \|_O_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] rendering test
Benjamin Berg wrote: On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 12:43 +0200, Riccardo Lucchese wrote: Besides this, I think the icon caching mechanism should be reworked: right now every icon has its own surfaces-cache and its svgloader. So that, if I'm not wrong, two icons showing the same svg (with same size, colors etc..) cache two distinct but identical surfaces in their _iconbuffer and cache two times the raw svg file contents in their svgloader. The cached surface is shared between different icons (the icon buffer is not shared). _surface_cache is a class variable, so that only one LRU list for the surfaces is created. That was my impression too. On the train from Brno to Prague, me and Tomeu made some quick dirty performance measurements on that code. IIRC, on startup we render something like 30 svg icons, and blit them to screen around 60 times after the home view is fully rendered. Switching views does not cause too much rendering too. While I might have a fuzzy memory for the exact numbers, I'm damn sure my conclusion was that there wasn't much to be gained by optimizing icon rendering. There were, however, a couple of icons with too many vertexes. These would take 10x the time of other average icons to render. One of these was the Tortoise icon, perhaps Tomeu remembers the other one. I guess best would be switching to have only one global cache (or not ? ;); perhaps a global cache clashes with using server side surfaces ? (see benzea's patches) A shared cache would be great. One way to do it would be to share a mmap'able file similar to the GTK+ icon cache file. But to create this file, one will need to know the icon colors that should be prerendered. More complicated would be to create a small service that uploads rendered icons to the X server, and hands back the pixmap ID. That way all applications could use one shared server side cache. (The pixmap based sapwood GTK+ engine, used on the Nokia 770/8x0 devices, does this to save memory.) We discussed this approach in Brno. I'm glad to hear it's feasible. Oh, why can't we just use the gtk icon cache with the rendered pixmaps? -- \___/ Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ _| X | Sugar Labs Team - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ \|_O_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] rendering test
Benjamin Berg wrote: Oh, why can't we just use the gtk icon cache with the rendered pixmaps? The thing is that the GTK+ icon cache are just prerendered icons (created with a standalone application). In Sugar however, we need a more complicated mechanism as the colour of the icons is changed on the fly. One would probably need to implement a custom icon cache, that prerenders the most often needed colour combinations. I wonder if we could extend gtk-update-icon-cache to pre-render also our svg icons, keyed by the stroke/fill color pair, or maybe just limited to the neutral (gray) icons. -- \___/ Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ _| X | Sugar Labs Team - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ \|_O_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] rendering test
Riccardo Lucchese wrote: Was fbdev running with EXA or XAA? (does fbdev even support EXA?) http://www.x.org/wiki/ExaStatus lists fbdev in the `Probably unsuitable for EXA support' section; so, I guess XAA. Confirmed: there's absolutely no EXA code in xf86-video-fbdev. Too bad, it would have been perfect to measure the relative overhead of going through the EXA fallbacks. My performance tests with X 1.3 and 1.4 had shown that turning on EXA makes many operations slower. It's hard to tell why, but it might have to do with loosing XShmPut() (MIT shared memory), excessive migration of pixmaps to the framebuffer, and so on. X 1.5 was supposed to have a much better EXA, at least judging from the stream of patches landed on the tree. I'd be very interested in seeing the output of oprofile while running your benchmark on X 1.4 and X 1.5. Please, remember to install the debuginfo packages for the X server, libcairo, and the geode driver. I haven't tried to run oprofile on the xo yet (it is on my todo list). Be careful, there's a catch with jffs2: it does not support the writable shared mmap that oprofiled needs. This leads to a confusing situation where you get an empty report file without any error given. Refer to this (possibly outdated) documentation for an easy workaround: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Oprofile_setup If I remember well, ExaDoMoveOutPixmap (or a function with a similar name) and memcpy were always on top of sysprof profiles in rendering tests. One advantage of repeating the profile now would be comparing the absolute times between different X servers and Fedora runtimes. Also, leaf functions tell us very little. memcpy() might be called from many different places to do different things. oprofile also supports stack traces, but for some reason I could never get them to work on the XO. One clue is that oprofile cannot use the NMI interrupt on the XO and falls back to using a software timer instead. Perhaps the stack tracing code doesn't like that. -- \___/ Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ _| X | Sugar Labs Team - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ \|_O_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Sugar on the BeagleBoard using the OpenEmbedded toolkit.
David Farning wrote: Welcome to the Sugar on the BeagleBoard project. It seems that we have all of the pieces in place to do a port. I'd be glad to help after I'm settled back in Europe, which will be around Sep 8th. -- \___/ Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ _| X | Sugar Labs Team - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ \|_O_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Proposal: Activity developers mailing list
Greg Smith wrote: I want to read all the e-mails that are important for XO users and I want to skip anything not directly relevant to them. I'll archive and maintain links to the rest in case I need to look something up. Knowing my perspective, let me know if you have any suggestions on how I can optimize my efficiency with the new communication channels. I think the Sugar development list, once moved to sugarlabs.org, will still focus on the same topics. If, and when, the traffic about non-OLPC ports grows to a point where it becomes distracting to core development, we might create additional lists. Cross-posting to multiple Sugarlabs and OLPC lists will be welcome as always. As for the technical aspect of reading multiple lists, can I suggest using gmame.org? Their list archives are very usable and they even relay them over NNTP, which is generally faster than IMAP for a large number of posts. The way I do it, is a little geeky, but I found it optimal: I use procmail recipes based on the Sender header to sort each list into its own server-side Maildir folder. Then, I use IMAP to access it from all my laptops. This lets me comfortably subscribe to ~30 lists for a total of 5GB of mail :-) We can rebuild him, we have the technology ... better than he was before, better, stronger, faster! http://www.technorati.com/videos/youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DaZ9phMCn_Lw It's too bad I have a 3kb/s downlink here in Kathmandu, but I know *exactly* where this quote comes from ;-))) -- \___/ Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ _| X | Sugar Labs Team - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ \|_O_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Proposal: Activity developers mailing list
Greg Smith wrote: I prefer it on lists.laptop.org. Mainly because I don't have capacity to watch lists from two mailman servers. What do you mean by this? Do you read the archives rather than subscribing to the lists? It also depends somewhat on the purpose. We need to communicate dependencies, APIs, and other things related to activities on the XO. Hopefully we can use this list for that. I agree with you: keeping developers of activities and Sugar core together on the same list might enable better mutual understanding. And the current traffic is far from scaring anybody. -- \___/ Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ _| X | Sugar Labs Team - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ \|_O_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] Killing hung activities
Today I was testing Paing in Joyride and managed to hung it in a way that hogs the CPU. There seems to be no way to kill such an activity from Sugar. Stop just tries to close the X window, which is ineffective in such cases. We'd need to fire a timer to check if the activity is still there after a few seconds and, in that case, send a SIGKILL. A safer design would pop a Wait/Force Quit window before proceeding. -- \___/ Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ _| X | Sugar Labs Team - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ \|_O_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] Fwd: Autonomous system for Sugar development....
Jim Gettys wrote: These discussions should be best be on email, or at worst scheduled, published in advance IRC meetings (*with minutes*). This project is world wide, with participation in (almost) every timezone and continent; we must enable all interested to participate. As projects grow, IRC is less and less appropriate for such discussion, and any IRC use needs to become scheduled pre-published events (and even then, you leave out people on some parts of the world). Mail has the features of leaving a record, and allowing time-shifting. My ancestors would say verba volant, scripta manent. -- \___/ Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ _| X | Sugar Labs Team - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ \|_O_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] documentation effort for sugar api
David Farning wrote: On Sat, 2008-06-07 at 10:26 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: A little fine tuning and we should be able to put the contents of html/api on our server. Do you want to give it a try? :) Bernie could give you shell access to sugarlabs.org and we could do it there. I am willing to give it a try. Could you or Bernie configure apache to serve a static folder for the API files? I don't feel comfortable messing with configurations on a live systems. Sure. Send me your ssh keys and the username you desire, and I'll create an account for you. Then, put the output in ~/public_html, test, and let me know. You can use cron of course. -- \___/ Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ _| X | Sugar Labs Team - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ \|_O_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Missing 0.81.1 tarballs
Host not found? Not in DNS? That's weird. It might have to do with the fact that lists.sugarlabs.org is actually a CNAME, and we do not have MX records. This is incorrect according to RFCs, but I had never seen an MTA complaining. Here, I updated the zone. Bert, please try again. Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: Doh! Bernie? Marco On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Bert Freudenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 22.05.2008, at 18:14, Bert Freudenberg wrote: I uploaded tarballs for etoys and etoys-activity: http://dev.laptop.org/pub/sugar/sources/ But the mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] bounced: - The following addresses had permanent fatal errors - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (reason: 550 5.1.2 Host not found (not in DNS)) Reporting-MTA: DNS; klopstock Received-From-MTA: DNS; p50996fc3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de Arrival-Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 18:12:39 +0200 (MEST) Final-Recipient: RFC822; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Action: failed Status: 5.1.2 Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.1.2 Host not found (not in DNS) Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 18:12:41 +0200 (MEST) Final-Log-ID: x033a6k4MC95PS.ee63d728 - Bert - ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar -- \___/ _| X | Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \|_O_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] OLPC's bizarre behaviors
C. Scott Ananian wrote: I would like to nominate SJ and Adam for the role of interim community liason, as they've done a fantastic job to date building and nourishing their respective content and support communities. SJ and Adam did a great job in the past to leverage and organize the community around OLPC, so I think they'd be perfect fits for this job. However, it seems most of the communication work needs to be directed *within* OLPC rather than towards its discontent community. Folks were alienated for a number of reasons, most very easy to grasp even without holding a degree in community building. One might consider reviewing some of the abundant criticism published in the open by people including Greg, RMS, Wayan, Ivan and Mako. And maybe pick some of their advice. A very important first step in the right direction would be suppressing all those secret mailing lists and bring most of the communication back on [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes, there might be a small amount of confidentiality even within an open source charity. The same kind of things mommy and daddy would keep secret for the good of the family. Transparency is an *essential* precondition for regaining the trust of donors, volunteers and all plenty of other idealistic people who believe in reinventing education. Is there a better argument for secrecy besides our new business partners demand us to keep all our agreements secret? Restoring transparency would be just the first step, but an important step. Concrete things I'd like to see a liason take charge of: a) monthly tech mini-conferences to present current work and wild ideas b) the same for deployments, to exchange success stories, challenges, and curricula a) [...] d) Good ideas. e) A more broadly-focused community news, agressively seeking out and incorporating local as well as offical OLPC content Restoring the old weekly news posted to devel@ would be a good start. Perhaps even publishing the longer version that went by the name of below the line or something like that. f) [...] h) Very good ideas too. I'd like to stress, Scott, that your efforts towards improving communication are, as always, *very* welcome. -- \___/ _| X | Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \|_O_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] A few thoughts on SugarLabs
Same feeling here. Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: This is exactly what I think about it. Thanks so much for writing it down so clearly. Marco On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently, I've encountered several people who seem to be looking for perspective on the relationship between OLPC and SugarLabs. I'd like to offer a few thoughts for them to chew on: 1. Sugar is good enough to be interesting to lots of people in the world, in particular, people who don't have XOs. 2. In order to reach more people, Sugar needs to be natively accessible, e.g. by being packaged for their favorite distributions (and operating systems, as we start looking at the larger world). 3. We would like more contributions; even if some of them do not fit with the user experience we want to provide on the XO. SugarLabs is a fine place to capture many kinds of contributions. 4. Finally, insofar as OLPC and its partners continue to pay the salaries of Sugar developers, supply useful infrastructure, and represent the largest chunk of the Sugar install base, OLPC and its partners will continue to have a lot of say in the development of Sugar. Regards, Michael ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar -- \___/ _| X | Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \|_O_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [Its.an.education.project] One2OneMate
Walter Bender wrote: I got my hands on a One2OneMate last night. It is a pretty cool machine. The keyboard is full, their is a touch screen, built in wireless, some expansion slots, etc. It is light, runs quiet and cool. Yes, yes... but the important uber-geek question is: have you dalready voided the warranty? How do its guts look like? :-) It comes with a nice suite of applications: Konqueror, a PDF viewer, a note pad, typing tutor, Tux paint, a calculator, etc. It uses a simple tab- and icon-based desktop. It is responsive. I am trying to install some apps off of their server--haven't figured out how to get to the console yet. Definite Sugar potential!! Very cool! Do you have a contact I could call to get a sample here in Florence? The people of OLPC Austria might also be interested in testing it for their pilots. Also, I'd like to get in touch with the developers to see if *they* would be interested in doing the work of adapting Sugar to their own system. -- \___/ _| X | Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \|_O_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Mail backlog; list moderators needed
Samuel Klein wrote: I just forwarded a bunch of mail from non-subscribers from the past two weeks. I am looking for 1-2 people to help moderate this list -- this involves filtering spam, passing on messages from non-list members, keeping heated discussions on-topic, and moderating the rare overzealous poster. Please reply to me off-list if interested. Some time ago, I posted the following comments about moderation to a closed OLPC list. This is not to say there shouldn't be someone managing the list. Just that they should not apply a strict moderation policy. Do you agree on this? Original Message Subject: Re: on transparency Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:38:29 +0200 From: Bernie Innocenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Samuel Klein [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: Marco Pesenti Gritti [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Samuel Klein wrote: If we can clarify this, the list mods can be encouraged to keep discussion on topic. Strict moderation and splitting into micro-topic groups was attempted by the venerable FidoNet and Usenet, two very large pre-Internet networks. In my experience, it created more trouble than benefit. A large part of the traffic was moderators bitching with subscribers about what is on topic and how the policy should be modified to allow or deny a particular behavior. Lots of posting would begin with disclaimers: I'm not sure this is on topic, please forgive me if it's not The most popular argument was: you are wasting everybody's bandwidth!, along with estimates of how many bytes were transferred to convey the inappropriate topic. Then when bandwidth was not a problem any more, it became a S/N ratio issue. Some individuals cannot suffer to hear others expressing their own ideas and bring up bandwidth and S/N excuses as a way to censor them. This is why moderation in public forums was a bed idea and was dropped in modern Internet. What works very well, instead, is self moderation and peer-to-peer moderation, because people in general learn to avoid behavior that upsets everybody else. I think the Wikipedia works on the very same principle. -- \___/ _| o | Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \|_X_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Sugar Interface on Classmate PC
[cc += aaron] Chuka Uzoegwu wrote: I am very much interested in getting the sugar interface to work on the Classmate PC. I read the article on the subject matter in OLPC news and I have started to work on it. I still have not been able to get the Sugar work on the CMPC. Can anyone help. Ask Aaron Kaplan, he's the author of this hack. Do you know where I could get a Classmate for experimental purposes? -- \___/ _| o | Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \|_X_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [Its.an.education.project] Sugar on the EEE PC
Tomeu Vizoso wrote: Which resolution it has? I can give it a look next week when I get back to a working jhbuild install. 800x480. -- \___/ _| o | Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \|_X_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] Sugar API documentation
Edward Cherlin wrote: And when I say documentation, I mean a handful of awesome activities that are copiously documented in a literate programming style. I am a professional API tech writer, and I have been a developer. I would be delighted to work on this, if I could get the support I need. What do the developers use now? I talked about it with Marco on IRC. Some documentation is done with gtk-doc because of our extensive use of the Gnome APIs. We are not opposed to switch to something else (Doxygen, Epydoc) if there seems to be benefits and someone volunteers to do the conversion. Checkout the main Sugar repository and have a look yourself: git clone git://dev.laptop.org/sugar There are plenty of other related projects that could use some love. Personally, I think documenting these low-level details and the internals of Sugar has a low effort/utility ratio. The code base seemed sufficiently understandable even the first time I've looked at it. There's much more value in clearly describing the overall architecture, the interaction between Sugar and Activities, the various DBus protocols, etc. Some of this exists in wiki.latop.org, but much of this information is incomplete, disorganized or just bitrotting. So, rather than the API-oriented fine-grained documentation (which may be a lot of to revise and extend), I'd like to see the stuff in the wiki reorganized and revised to assume the form of a comprehensive, top-down developer manual for the Sugar environment. My non-pro $0.02 opinion. Edward, what do you think about it? -- \___/ _| o | Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \|_X_| It's an education project, not a laptop project! ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue
Bryan Berry wrote: 1. We are having a lot of trouble w/ jumpy cursors. You know where the touchpad behaves erratically. Is there an easy fix to this problem? we are using build 703, MP machines, and firmware Q2d14. We have the kids hold down the 4 corner buttons as recommended in the XO user guide but that doesn't seem to consistently fix the problem. Dust is an issue at the schools but that can't explain the high rate of jumpy cursors. Please assist Can you explain in detail the behavior of the cursor when it's acting erratically? There are many independent touchpad problems that look alike. Of these, the only one I could fix in software was this one: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/2804 The symptoms of #2804 are quite distinctive: the cursor jumps immediately towards the bottom-right corner of the screen each time you put your finger on the touchpad. Dilinger and Smithbone have been working on the calibration issue, but I don't know if they finally succeeded. Dilinger also had a cleaned up version of the driver, combining together several touchpad fixes, cleanups and re-enabling the pen tablet too (#5268). That patch-set had been held until after Update.1 because it introduced yet another regression (#6079). I don't know who has been working on it, if anybody. Given our current situation, I might soon find plenty of free time to work on these things :-) -- \/ _|| Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \|__=_| It's an education project, not a laptop project ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] jumpy cursor problem and sugar issue
Andres Salomon wrote: Yeah, all the code's in master. No known bugs in the touchpad driver, but the kernel was just updated to 2.6.25. Of course, the most important change might be the PT-in-relative-mode thing; when the GS screws up, just push down hard and use the PT to do what you want to do. That's really cool, Dilinger! The Turkish had asked me when this would happen and I was embarrassed to admit there was no ETA for it yet. Is the new kernel already in one of our unstable builds? Do you think it would be dogfoodable enough for the faster branch, maybe? On second thought, maybe faster should be used only for those changes that make things, well, faster. Otherwise it would quickly become a dumping ground. -- \/ _|| Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \|__=_| It's an education project, not a laptop project ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
