Re: [sugar] Microsoft

[Seth Woodworth]

Let's look at this with a slightly different lens before we blow up on NN
and Microsoft.

What does this agreement equate to?  And what are the alternatives to
Microsoft?

If the XO was running a completely closed source stack with no documentation
on hardware, how would the Linux community feel?  They would feel that they
were being shut out and not allowed to run whatever software they wanted to
or develop.  This is something the linux community has speared hardware
companies over for years.

So as a fair practice I think it's clear that no special actions can
ethically be made to prevent Windows or any other OS from running on the
machine.  So a Windows port for the XO isn't something that could have been
preventative.

Furthermore OLPC's sale of the XO hardware doesn't come with any
restrictions for use.  To not allow countries to install windows once they
take ownership would be a completely unethical move given OLPC's commitments
to freedom.

>From scuttlebut about this deal and the way that I understand it, it's the
equivalent of OLPC/Quanta selling the machines to Microsoft and they doing
whatever they want with them.  I'm not as clear on this point, but is there
an ethical problem with selling the machine to Microsoft?  Could OLPC
ethically Not sell the machine to whoever wanted to buy them in large
volumes?  We must remember that hardware companies have invested a good deal
of money on the expectation that they can at best break even on the XO
production.  They haven't reached nearly the levels of machines sold to
satisfy these manufacturors.

Do I want to see Windows on the XO?  No, never, and god I hope not.  Will
Microsoft end up screwing us?  Likely, given their history.

Will this still give us the chance to put great hardware and content into
the hands of children all over the world?  Yes.

But Linux and FOSS can't triumph over Microsoft by excluding them and by
obfusication.  We need to make a better product.

With Walter Bender on his own and dedicated to bringing Sugar to every
machine on a FOSS stack, and all OLPC produced software being safely GPL'ed,
I feel confident that Sugar can beat out Windows.  Let's focus on getting
sugar and linux and what we *can* do instead of being angry.  I plan on
staying and producing content, translations and improvements for OLPC and
for children.

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org

Seth Woodworth

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Asheesh Laroia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On Thu, 15 May 2008, Nicholas Negroponte wrote:
>
> > One Laptop per Child is announcing an agreement with Microsoft
> > to make a dual boot, Linux/Windows, version of the XO laptop. In
> > addition, our intention is to engage one or more third parties to port
> Sugar to
> > run on Windows in order to reach a wider installed base of laptops. In
> the
> > meanwhile, OLPC remains fully committed to our goal: a completely free
> > and open learning platform for the world's children. The mission
> > statement of OLPC has not changed in three years (attached).
>
> My copy of this mail (as available at
> http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2008-May/005752.html ) does not
> have the attachment of the mission statement.
>
> -- Asheesh.
>
> --
> Absolutum obsoletum.  (If it works, it's out of date.)
>-- Stafford Beer
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Re: [sugar] [support-gang] Microsoft

[Seth Woodworth]

>
>
> He's not declaring a policy of ethical inaction.  He made an
> announcement called "Microsoft" wherein he describes an OLPC-supported
> firmware modification that will allow Windows to boot on the XO-1.  He
> p it to an OLPC mailing list.  He then claimed no OLPC resources would
> be devoted to the project.  I'm left wondering how many of those
> resources went into this firmware mod.


No OLPC resources would be involved in porting Sugar to Windows.  So his
statement was true, if a bit misleading.


> If XO sales are so unrestricted, why can't I buy one at laptop.org?


Are you willing to buy 100 or more?



>
>
> > Will this still give us the chance to put great hardware and content into
> > the hands of children all over the world?  Yes.
>
> Hardware is useless without control.  Remember when this was an
> education project?  Where'd all *that* rhetoric go?  In this country,
> we complain about vendor lock-in -- on everything from terrible ISO
> standards (remember who was behind subverting THAT open process) to
> our mobile phones.  But this isn't some abstract problem that prevents
> us from using Google Maps on our Blackberries.  These kids don't
> *have* anything else, and we should not hand control of their
> education over to *any* for-profit company.  In fact, we should
> *actively oppose* the idea.



Be realisitic.  Our software isn't customizable beyond a hypothetical.  We
offer no man pages, no GCC, no source on board, and no training on how to
use program.  Before we can make the argument of being more customizeable we
need to actually document how to change things and supply such information
on the XO.

A Kindle can still allow you to read a book.  Is closed source as useful as
open source?  No.  Is DRM a good thing for children in the third workd?
No.  But is a calculator better than nothing?  Yes.  Keep that in mind.

>
>
> > But Linux and FOSS can't triumph over Microsoft by excluding them and by
> > obfusication.  We need to make a better product.
>
> I don't care who triumphs over whom.  I did not donate to the OLPC
> foundation to fund a market-assault vector for a convicted monopolist.


I'm not clear how much OLPC is benefitting from this deal, other than
laptops sold.

You make a good point.  A large fraction of the OLPC community is going to
see this as a sellout to microsoft.  And as completely changing the goals of
the project.  A lot of developers are going to leave the project, and a lot
of the community is going to leave because they care as much about FOSS in
education as Laptops in Education.  And that's not a bad belief.  Open
materials and tools are greatly superior to closed ones.


>
>
> > With Walter Bender on his own and dedicated to bringing Sugar to every
> > machine on a FOSS stack, and all OLPC produced software being safely
> GPL'ed,
> > I feel confident that Sugar can beat out Windows.  Let's focus on getting
> > sugar and linux and what we *can* do instead of being angry.  I plan on
> > staying and producing content, translations and improvements for OLPC and
> > for children.
>
> Sugar can't beat out Windows if it's busy running on top of Windows.


I wholeheartedly believe that Sugar on a FOSS stack will preform better than
Sugar on a Windows stack.  And I think that this development community can
prove that.  Now, that proof may well happen at sugarlabs and possibly even
on different hardware.  I think that it is fairly safe to say that Sugarlabs
isn't going to be spending a lot of time porting sugar to windows.


> "Additionally, the Fedora, Debian and Ubuntu software environments run
> on the XO-1, adding support for tens of thousands of free software
> applications."
>
> I am terrified at the thought that the rest of this press release
> might be anywhere near as disingenuous as this statement.


It sounds like typical marketing doublethink. The people and community of
OLPC that I have worked with have been very open and truthful like a FREE
AND OPEN project should be.  NN however neglests to really have a dialog
with the community.  There is a big disconnect between the CEO and the
community that supports it.  This isn't how Ubuntu and Mark Shuttleworth
work.


> However, the software we have is not ready to go against competition
> from Microsoft, especially with untapped emerging markets on the line.
>  You can't fight a corporation by turning the other cheek -- much less
> by giving them a key to your house.


Let's also remember that the OLPC project was orignally planned to be open
hardware as well.  If that had happened, as it should, we would be in the
same boat now.

Sugar on a free stack has to beat windows by it's quality.  This is my goal
and this is my belief.
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Re: [sugar] [support-gang] Microsoft

[Seth Woodworth]

>
>
> ...and to which the free software (linux) community would respond with a
> reverse engineering effort, at it's own (collective) expense, and rather
> quickly have a solution.  If turnabout is fair play, let Microsoft adopt the
> free software community response as well.
>

The golden rule doesn't say: "Treat others as you have been treated,"  It
says to treat others as you would like to be treated.


So as a fair practice I think it's clear that no special actions can
>> ethically be made to prevent Windows or any other OS from running on the
>> machine.  So a Windows port for the XO isn't something that could have been
>> preventative.
>
>
> Agree. But that's not what is being proposed. The agreement clearly
> includes a modification of the original principles (minimum cost for the
> devices) to provide a Microsoft handicap in this game. I would not call that
> "fair practice."
>

What is being proposed is that if you want it to run Microsoft apps then
countries can pay an extra $10.  This gives *them* a handycap in the game
and makes it that much easier for us.


>
>> Furthermore OLPC's sale of the XO hardware doesn't come with any
>> restrictions for use.  To not allow countries to install windows once they
>> take ownership would be a completely unethical move given OLPC's commitments
>> to freedom.
>
>
> OLPC has NEVER made any mention of preventing anyone (with a developer key)
> from installing whatever software they wanted to install on the XO, (which
> cannot be said of all computer system manufacturers
> cough*cough*XBOX*cough*cough) That's not what's being discussed here.
> Negroponte is taking proactive action to create a more favorable environment
> for Microsoft. Is OLPC making the same offer to Ubuntu?  Debian?  What about
> Red Hat?
>

I agree.  Let's start a dialog with Ubuntu!  Mark Shuttleworth has mentioned
OLPC favorably on this blog a few times, and much of the community has been
interested in getting Ubuntu running on the XO.  There is a need for a full
desktop as well as a sugar UI for these machines.  I run Debian on my XO
personally and I would love to have a fast Xubuntu going on it.


>
> Not at all. The problem appears to be that Microsoft is asking/demanding
> that the OLPC principles be modified in deference to Microsoft.
>

I don't agree with that statement.  If the extra $10 is optional if
countries insist on Microsoft anyway.  If that's not the case (which of
course isn't clear with the meager amount of information we're given) then
you are right.


> I was under the impression the hardware manufacturers weren't loosing
> anything on the per-unit sales.
>

I may very well be wrong.

But I do know that Quanta isn't going to let OLPC open source the hardware
schematics that they own until sale volumes are much higher.

Will this still give us the chance to put great hardware and content into
>> the hands of children all over the world?  Yes.
>
>
> Nope. It's over.
>

I'm sorry you feel that way.  I'm not going to argue if that's the way you
feel.  I hope that you get involved in Sugarlabs, which is all safely GPL'd
or maybe work with me on Open / Creative Commons content.  There is a lot of
work that can be done that can still help and not help OLPC+Microsoft.



> I think you are under the impression that the 'education project' has been
> somehow hindered by efforts aimed at *preventing* Microsoft from
> contributing. I do not see that as the case. Speaking as one of those 'free
> software fundamentalists", I can say I long ago wrote-off Microsoft and
> pretty much ignore what they choose to do. (They know it, and that
> dismissiveness is one of the things that keeps Microsoft up at night.)
>

I don't understand how that follows?


> With Walter Bender on his own and dedicated to bringing Sugar to every
>> machine on a FOSS stack, and all OLPC produced software being safely GPL'ed,
>> I feel confident that Sugar can beat out Windows.
>
>
> Of course. Sugar is not dead, just OLPC.  That's why the fork occurred.
>

Sugarlabs isn't a fork.  The code bases are still the same and aren't going
to change.  It's more like upstream sources now.  Or a forking of
management, not code.



>
> Let's focus on getting sugar and linux and what we *can* do instead of
>> being angry.  I plan on staying and producing content, translations and
>> improvements for OLPC and for children.
>>
>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org
>>
>> Seth Woodworth
>>
>
>
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Re: [sugar] Microsoft

[Seth Woodworth]

>
> Wrong. It's called tit-for-tat, otherwise known as fair-is-fair.
> It's perfectly ethical to defend oneself against an adversary
> who has no qualms about anything.



"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

- Ghandi
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Re: [sugar] [support-gang] Microsoft

[Seth Woodworth]

>
>
> devil's advocate:  how would someone on the outside (of either
> OLPC, or sugarlabs) know that that is the case?  all that has
> happened (from the public view of things) is that this new wiki
> has sprung up, claiming essentially that "this is where sugar
> lives".  there's been no "announcement" (that i've seen), and no
> corresponding announcement from OLPC, so an observer is sort of
> left to wonder what's going on.


The wiki's barely up.  AFAIK Walter and the rest of the mailing list are
still deciding what the group is and isn't.
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Re: [sugar] [IAEP] Sugar for the rich

[Seth Woodworth]

This release of sucrose that requires jhbuild isn't ever the sort of
thing you would need to build or work with on your XO.  The XO's
environment is such that it doesn't require the jhbuild system.  And
if you are on a unix based system, all of the tools that you need to
build our sources, sucrose or sugar are available in your distro's
repos.  If you're able to get online to our source, you can get the
tools you need to play with them.

The releases and source for Sugar builds for the XO are publicly
available at dev.laptop.org and are *pretty* well documented but could
have more information available on the wiki.

Sugarlabs being much newer doesn't quite have it's sources and
projects as readily available.  Please point out what you would like
to get at first and we will do our best to get it out to you!

And as an aside, Nepal's OLPC project is already using the latest
version of Sugar, and have developed new resources inside of etoys.
Nepal isn't suffering from any lack of availability from OLPC.  Brian
Berry OLE Nepal's external face is very much on top of everything at
OLPC.  But I understand your concern.

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Mikus Grinbergs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The new Sucrose[1] 0.81.1 Development Release is out!
>
> I was enthusiastic about the OLPC.  It offered to improve the lives of the
> economically disadvantaged through technology (i.e., by affordably providing
> computational assistance).  Sugar was part of that offer -- a "new look" at
> how persons lacking "developed world" exposure could still learn to make use
> of computational assistance.  I eagerly installed the latest builds on my
> XO, to see for myself how things (for instance, the redesigned Sugar UI)
> worked.
>
> The project has matured;  to me it seems an "enclave" of developers has
> formed, with their own facilities and procedures.  Products will "trickle
> down" to places like Nepal as the "enclave" releases them.
>
> For interested parties wanting to "follow" product evolution as it is being
> fashioned (or to try to install their own modifications), the minimum
> environment (for example, for looking at Sucrose) now seems to be a laptop
> (or bigger) with jhbuild installed.
>
>
> While jhbuild facilitates the work of the "enclave", does its inclusion in
> the mainline development path act to inhibit "outsiders" (who may be from
> the economically disadvantaged group originally supported by the OLPC
> project) from contributing ?
>
>
> mikus
>
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Re: [sugar] [IAEP] TurtleArt, Logo, and XOs

[Seth Woodworth]

The built in speakers aren't going to avail you for anything much below 400
Hhz.

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sound#Speaker_Capabilities

The speakers in the XO are from and for cellphone speakers. They are
> optimized for voice, and have less quality frequency response at the low end
> of the spectrum. The XO speakers have a severely biased frequency response.
> We have recently performed a thorough analysis of the audio response curve
> of the machine and there is a spectacular 12dB peak between 3000 and 4500
> Hz, this on all models. I suspect these are mobile phone speakers designed
> for voice clarity. What this means is kids will likely crank up the volume
> so that they can hear some of the lower frequencies. Since the physical size
> of the speakers prohibits any frequencies below 350 HZ, as they try to get a
> decent bandwidth, they will get the "membrane-against-the-casing" distortion
> (which has the merit of making the kids lower the volume but risks killing
> the speakers if done routinely). Someone on the hardware side really should
> look at the long term prospects for audio hardware failure and see what
> correction we can bring, by limiting signal output and/or equalising the
> output of the AD1888 (we dont know what can be done on chip...)
>
> The speakers start rolling off at about 600 Hz and are virtually worthless
> below 400 Hz.
>
> The hardware has a one-pole highpass filter at about 400 Hz (I forget the
> exact frequency but it doesn't matter much) in order to reduce the amount of
> useless LF energy that is presented to the speakers. The rolloff is only in
> the speaker path; the headphone path has flat response across the audio
> band.
>


Just throwing the info out there.

Seth



On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This is wonderful. Thank you. I have been wishing for some of these
> features, particularly multiple sensor input and lower frequencies.
> Many bass and contrabass wind instruments and standard keyboard
> instruments go below 100 Hz.
>
> The note A above middle C (A4, MIDI 69) is 440 Hz, so four octaves
> below, the lowest note on a piano, is A0, 27.5 Hz, MIDI 21. (MIDI runs
> about five octaves above and below, beyond the limits of human hearing
> on the low end). It would be awesome to be able to demonstrate 32 ft
> and 64 ft organ pipes, which go down to five octaves below middle C,
> with a frequency of 8.2 Hz. You can't hear it, but you can feel it in
> your bones. I have seen such pipes on an organ in England, where
> legend has it that naughty choirboys were stuck in the very biggest to
> be shot up to the top and let down again on the air blowing through.
>
> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 11:33 AM, Arjun Sarwal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 7:14 PM, Brian Silverman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >> hi
> >>
> >> sorry for the delay in responding... been busy.
> >>
> >>> I hear you don't have a recent XO!   Please add yourself to our
> >>> contributors database and we will send you a laptop asap :
> projectdb.olpc.at
> >>> 
> >>
> >> thank you for this. I haven't added myself yet but plan on doing so in
> the
> >> coming weeks.
> >>
> >>> There's also the TurtleArt with Sensors project, which should probably
> be
> >>> merged back into the TurtleArt trunk -- you should talk to arjun sarwal
> >>> about this.
> >>>
> >>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Measure#Sensor_Input_into_Turtle_Art
> >>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities#Programming
> >>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Turtle_Art
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yes, we should talk about this. My preference, if possible, is to
> somehow
> >> keep the versions separate. As I'm sure you've noticed, the design
> aesthetic
> >> of TurtleArt is quite minimalist. There are a lot of possible additions
> that
> >> were "obvious" that I ignored anyway. Sensors are a really good idea.
> >> However, rather than viewing them as an extension  I'd prefer to view
> them
> >> as part of an alternative version.
> >
> > Dear SJ, Brian :
> >
> > Perhaps Turtle Art could then be the 'upstream version'  and I could
> > maintain the 'Turtle Art with Sensors' fork ..?
> >
> > Thoughts ?
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
> > Dear Community:
> >
> > I have been working on a modification of Turtle Art with sensors that
> > works better than the version that has gone in Peru Activity pack. The
> > earlier one needed me to do gstreamer Kungfu to get the samples of
> > sensors/sound. The new version uses python-alsaaudio. When
> > python-alsaaudio (#6535) is included in builds getting samples(AC/DC)
> > from ADC becomes much easier and straightforward.
> >
> >
> > Also, I have been working upon re organizing the pages associated with
> > Measure Activity and Sensors with the aim that there should be easily
> > accessible information for people who visit the page. For example
> > educators click straight away on the educators section, people who
> > want to 'hack around' have access to the 

Re: [sugar] [OLPC library] Things I would like taken away from the wiki: Sign-up lists

[Seth Woodworth]

>
> > create a bot or tool that makes this ad-hoc list broadcasting function
> > (including making sure people are notified via email), I would be
> ecstatic.
>
> Such bots are in existance on the english wikipedia, they are also open
> source.
>
> The issue is that people don't know how easy it is to start a lists.l.o
> mailing
> list, we need to make that more obvious. That could fix much of this issue.



Yes, they exist.  But to create and maintain a bot, and then teaching people
to use it, and giving permissions to post to given lists of people?  It's a
complex structure that does not currently exist and would be *more* work to
administer by hand.

My point remains.  The lists that exist on the wiki now, detract from
volunteering and currently provide no benefit as currently used.
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Re: [sugar] [OLPC library] big images, resized images, SVG files

[Seth Woodworth]

I've been talking to Eben (a sugar-designer) about how to wrangle svg out of
screenshots.  svg's make a lot more sense in the long term documentation
sense.  svg's are going to be a *lot* easier to translate than a series of
png's.

Not to mention some kind of svg tool would be great for children to be able
to take screenshots themselves.  The differences between vector and rastor
are totally something that could get integrated into paint colors! and
several activities.

Nirav, a GSoC intern, worked on some amazing image recognition tools for the
XO's camera, in sugar.  I wonder if anything that he worked on would be
applicable?


On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Walter Bender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> > For that matter, Browse can render SVG files directly.
>
> We had discussed this in Austin. It'd be great if there were a simple
> way to do a Sugar screen capture as SVG as opposed to PNG. Not sure if
> that would work for all of the GTK components, but everything else is
> native SVG.
>
> -walter
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Re: [sugar] G1G1v2 Activities

[Seth Woodworth]

I vote very strongly for Ruler. It's less than 20kb non-compressed!  It's
too small *not* to include.

Top Ten:

1.) Ruler
2.) Moon
3.) StarChart
4.) Bridge
5.) XaoS
6.) Frotz
7.) WikiBrowse Spanish
8.) Words
9.) Tumbleboy

On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Gary C Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > So I should keep both in my activity.info for backwards compatibility
> with
> > early builds?
>
> This was change *long* time ago. I suspect your activity would not
> work for other reasons if run with such an old Sugar.
>
> Marco
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Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing

[Seth Woodworth]

What are your criteria?  Are you ranking things by supportability and size?
If so Ruler is a no-brainer.  It's 20kb and is unlikely to break easily.

On the other hand SimCity is hard to make drastic changes and still be
called SimCity.  It's currently buggy and has no active maintainer.

On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Thanks a lot for the input on which activities to ship!
>
> Here is the list of activities I will to management as my suggestion on
> what we ship.
>
> Please help test these! See the end of the e-mail for instructions.
>
> The list I recommend is essentially the G1G1 activities (kudos to the
> team who chose the first set!). In addition to those I list a few which
> got repeated votes (except Chess and Sudoku which are a concession to SJ
> ;-)
>
> Original G1G1 activities:
> Browse
> Read
> Write
> Paint
> Record
> TamTam Jam, Mini, on fence: Synthlab,  Edit,
> Chat
> Pippy
> Etoys
> Turtle Art
> Calculate
> Measure
> Distance
> Memorize
> Terminal
> Log
> Analyze
>
> New ones:
> Help
> Implode
> Speak
> Maze
> SimCity
> Scratch
> Xaos
> StarChart
> Moon
> GCompris Chess
> GCompris Sudoku
>
> The only significant change from the original G1G1 set is the TamTam. I
> think we should include 2 not 4 so as not to over weight them against
> other activities.
>
> Let me know if anyone has comments on that (Jean can you live with that?).
>
> Not all of these are sure to make it. On the other hand it's very
> unlikely that anything else will make it. So if you have an urgent
> request or a specific concern please speak up now.
>
> Of course, anyone can download additional activities so even if an
> activity is not on this list, it still attracts a lot of users.
>
> We need help testing these with the latest 8.2 image. We plan to make a
> release candidate today and if it passes smoke test we will add the
> activities and content to create a signed release candidate on Monday!
>
> Developers,
>
> Please reply with the final version and URL of each activity which we
> should include in the image. Each one must pass final test and have an
> active and reachable developer to make the final list.
>
> Morgan,
>
> can you make sure we have a contact e-mail and name on each of these?
> Also, let me know if you any of them are orphaned or not well maintained.
>
> All,
>
> Please test them all one more time let us know how it goes.
>
> I want to know if each of these passes the tests described here:
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_cases_8.2.0#Activities
>
> Please create a new test case for any activity that needs one.
>
> To do that, go to this page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Form:Test_case
> and entering Tests/Activities/nameofactivity to create a new test case.
> Then choose activity from the drop down and you can just paste in the
> steps test from above for a start.
>
> Then you can add a test result by clicking on the "+" sign next to the
> test case (it takes a little while for them to show up after creation).
>
> You can also e-mail comments or test results back to this list.
>
> Thanks a lot for your help.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg S
>
>
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Re: [sugar] [Grassroots-l] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing

[Seth Woodworth]

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Walter Bender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> In fact, there is a great deal of data from the field in the form of
> the activity packs that Peru, Uruguay, et al. developed. These
> collections have been vetted and tested extensively and have a
> built-in community of support. They are learning-centric collections,
> but presumably, those G1G1 purchasers who are interested in other
> pursuits will run Fedora/GNOME or XP.
>
> -walter




I'm not convinced that they are well-tested.  They included News Reader,
which hasn't worked for the last several releases.  That doesn't suggest to
me that their activities went through any kind of extensive testing before
deployment.   They have since been tested in the field by children.  I
*haven't* seen much feedback from kids yet.  At least not from South
American and not any broad spectrum.

---Seth
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