[sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
Hi All, Thanks a lot for the input on which activities to ship! Here is the list of activities I will to management as my suggestion on what we ship. Please help test these! See the end of the e-mail for instructions. The list I recommend is essentially the G1G1 activities (kudos to the team who chose the first set!). In addition to those I list a few which got repeated votes (except Chess and Sudoku which are a concession to SJ ;-) Original G1G1 activities: Browse Read Write Paint Record TamTam Jam, Mini, on fence: Synthlab, Edit, Chat Pippy Etoys Turtle Art Calculate Measure Distance Memorize Terminal Log Analyze New ones: Help Implode Speak Maze SimCity Scratch Xaos StarChart Moon GCompris Chess GCompris Sudoku The only significant change from the original G1G1 set is the TamTam. I think we should include 2 not 4 so as not to over weight them against other activities. Let me know if anyone has comments on that (Jean can you live with that?). Not all of these are sure to make it. On the other hand it's very unlikely that anything else will make it. So if you have an urgent request or a specific concern please speak up now. Of course, anyone can download additional activities so even if an activity is not on this list, it still attracts a lot of users. We need help testing these with the latest 8.2 image. We plan to make a release candidate today and if it passes smoke test we will add the activities and content to create a signed release candidate on Monday! Developers, Please reply with the final version and URL of each activity which we should include in the image. Each one must pass final test and have an active and reachable developer to make the final list. Morgan, can you make sure we have a contact e-mail and name on each of these? Also, let me know if you any of them are orphaned or not well maintained. All, Please test them all one more time let us know how it goes. I want to know if each of these passes the tests described here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_cases_8.2.0#Activities Please create a new test case for any activity that needs one. To do that, go to this page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Form:Test_case and entering Tests/Activities/nameofactivity to create a new test case. Then choose activity from the drop down and you can just paste in the steps test from above for a start. Then you can add a test result by clicking on the "+" sign next to the test case (it takes a little while for them to show up after creation). You can also e-mail comments or test results back to this list. Thanks a lot for your help. Thanks, Greg S ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
What are your criteria? Are you ranking things by supportability and size? If so Ruler is a no-brainer. It's 20kb and is unlikely to break easily. On the other hand SimCity is hard to make drastic changes and still be called SimCity. It's currently buggy and has no active maintainer. On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi All, > > Thanks a lot for the input on which activities to ship! > > Here is the list of activities I will to management as my suggestion on > what we ship. > > Please help test these! See the end of the e-mail for instructions. > > The list I recommend is essentially the G1G1 activities (kudos to the > team who chose the first set!). In addition to those I list a few which > got repeated votes (except Chess and Sudoku which are a concession to SJ > ;-) > > Original G1G1 activities: > Browse > Read > Write > Paint > Record > TamTam Jam, Mini, on fence: Synthlab, Edit, > Chat > Pippy > Etoys > Turtle Art > Calculate > Measure > Distance > Memorize > Terminal > Log > Analyze > > New ones: > Help > Implode > Speak > Maze > SimCity > Scratch > Xaos > StarChart > Moon > GCompris Chess > GCompris Sudoku > > The only significant change from the original G1G1 set is the TamTam. I > think we should include 2 not 4 so as not to over weight them against > other activities. > > Let me know if anyone has comments on that (Jean can you live with that?). > > Not all of these are sure to make it. On the other hand it's very > unlikely that anything else will make it. So if you have an urgent > request or a specific concern please speak up now. > > Of course, anyone can download additional activities so even if an > activity is not on this list, it still attracts a lot of users. > > We need help testing these with the latest 8.2 image. We plan to make a > release candidate today and if it passes smoke test we will add the > activities and content to create a signed release candidate on Monday! > > Developers, > > Please reply with the final version and URL of each activity which we > should include in the image. Each one must pass final test and have an > active and reachable developer to make the final list. > > Morgan, > > can you make sure we have a contact e-mail and name on each of these? > Also, let me know if you any of them are orphaned or not well maintained. > > All, > > Please test them all one more time let us know how it goes. > > I want to know if each of these passes the tests described here: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_cases_8.2.0#Activities > > Please create a new test case for any activity that needs one. > > To do that, go to this page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Form:Test_case > and entering Tests/Activities/nameofactivity to create a new test case. > Then choose activity from the drop down and you can just paste in the > steps test from above for a start. > > Then you can add a test result by clicking on the "+" sign next to the > test case (it takes a little while for them to show up after creation). > > You can also e-mail comments or test results back to this list. > > Thanks a lot for your help. > > Thanks, > > Greg S > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
On 08-09-19, at 18:27, Greg Smith wrote: > Hi All, > > Thanks a lot for the input on which activities to ship! > > Here is the list of activities I will to management as my suggestion > on what we ship. > > Please help test these! See the end of the e-mail for instructions. > > The list I recommend is essentially the G1G1 activities (kudos to > the team who chose the first set!). In addition to those I list a > few which got repeated votes (except Chess and Sudoku which are a > concession to SJ ;-) > > Original G1G1 activities: > Browse > Read > Write > Paint > Record > TamTam Jam, Mini, on fence: Synthlab, Edit, > Chat > Pippy > Etoys > Turtle Art > Calculate > Measure > Distance > Memorize > Terminal > Log > Analyze > > New ones: > Help > Implode > Speak > Maze > SimCity > Scratch > Xaos > StarChart > Moon > GCompris Chess > GCompris Sudoku > > The only significant change from the original G1G1 set is the > TamTam. I think we should include 2 not 4 so as not to over weight > them against other activities. > > Let me know if anyone has comments on that (Jean can you live with > that?). Yes. However, I think Mini and Edit would be my picks. Your call. > > > Not all of these are sure to make it. On the other hand it's very > unlikely that anything else will make it. So if you have an urgent > request or a specific concern please speak up now. > > Of course, anyone can download additional activities so even if an > activity is not on this list, it still attracts a lot of users. > > We need help testing these with the latest 8.2 image. We plan to > make a release candidate today and if it passes smoke test we will > add the activities and content to create a signed release candidate > on Monday! > > Developers, > > Please reply with the final version and URL of each activity which > we should include in the image. Each one must pass final test and > have an active and reachable developer to make the final list. > > Morgan, > > can you make sure we have a contact e-mail and name on each of > these? Also, let me know if you any of them are orphaned or not well > maintained. > > All, > > Please test them all one more time let us know how it goes. > > I want to know if each of these passes the tests described here: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_cases_8.2.0#Activities > > Please create a new test case for any activity that needs one. > > To do that, go to this page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Form:Test_case > and entering Tests/Activities/nameofactivity to create a new test > case. Then choose activity from the drop down and you can just paste > in the steps test from above for a start. > > Then you can add a test result by clicking on the "+" sign next to > the test case (it takes a little while for them to show up after > creation). > > You can also e-mail comments or test results back to this list. > > Thanks a lot for your help. > > Thanks, > > Greg S > > > ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
This seems weighted toward older kids. I think you should include all of gcompris and TuxPaint. Paint is not a good drawing app for young children (or anybody else, but I digress). Colors is good. Cartoon builder is good for young kids. On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 5:42 PM, jean piche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 08-09-19, at 18:27, Greg Smith wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > Thanks a lot for the input on which activities to ship! > > > > Here is the list of activities I will to management as my suggestion > > on what we ship. > > > > Please help test these! See the end of the e-mail for instructions. > > > > The list I recommend is essentially the G1G1 activities (kudos to > > the team who chose the first set!). In addition to those I list a > > few which got repeated votes (except Chess and Sudoku which are a > > concession to SJ ;-) > > > > Original G1G1 activities: > > Browse > > Read > > Write > > Paint > > Record > > TamTam Jam, Mini, on fence: Synthlab, Edit, > > Chat > > Pippy > > Etoys > > Turtle Art > > Calculate > > Measure > > Distance > > Memorize > > Terminal > > Log > > Analyze > > > > New ones: > > Help > > Implode > > Speak > > Maze > > SimCity > > Scratch > > Xaos > > StarChart > > Moon > > GCompris Chess > > GCompris Sudoku > > > > The only significant change from the original G1G1 set is the > > TamTam. I think we should include 2 not 4 so as not to over weight > > them against other activities. > > > > Let me know if anyone has comments on that (Jean can you live with > > that?). > > Yes. However, I think Mini and Edit would be my picks. Your call. > > > > > > > Not all of these are sure to make it. On the other hand it's very > > unlikely that anything else will make it. So if you have an urgent > > request or a specific concern please speak up now. > > > > Of course, anyone can download additional activities so even if an > > activity is not on this list, it still attracts a lot of users. > > > > We need help testing these with the latest 8.2 image. We plan to > > make a release candidate today and if it passes smoke test we will > > add the activities and content to create a signed release candidate > > on Monday! > > > > Developers, > > > > Please reply with the final version and URL of each activity which > > we should include in the image. Each one must pass final test and > > have an active and reachable developer to make the final list. > > > > Morgan, > > > > can you make sure we have a contact e-mail and name on each of > > these? Also, let me know if you any of them are orphaned or not well > > maintained. > > > > All, > > > > Please test them all one more time let us know how it goes. > > > > I want to know if each of these passes the tests described here: > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_cases_8.2.0#Activities > > > > Please create a new test case for any activity that needs one. > > > > To do that, go to this page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Form:Test_case > > and entering Tests/Activities/nameofactivity to create a new test > > case. Then choose activity from the drop down and you can just paste > > in the steps test from above for a start. > > > > Then you can add a test result by clicking on the "+" sign next to > > the test case (it takes a little while for them to show up after > > creation). > > > > You can also e-mail comments or test results back to this list. > > > > Thanks a lot for your help. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Greg S > > > > > > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- "The water won't clear up 'til we get the hogs out of the creek." -- Jim Hightower ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
On 20 Sep 2008, at 01:42, jean piche wrote: >> The only significant change from the original G1G1 set is the >> TamTam. I think we should include 2 not 4 so as not to over weight >> them against other activities. >> >> Let me know if anyone has comments on that (Jean can you live with >> that?). > > Yes. However, I think Mini and Edit would be my picks. Your call. Oh I think Synthlab is great! Think of all those budding sound engineers! I know it currently (using ~8.2) starts to stutter if you hit more than a few keys at once and wave the mouse about, but it's makes some great sounds through an amp if your gentle on the keys. :-) --Gary ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
How about adding these into Joyride Activities one at a time ? A sort of encouragement for testers to test them out. before 8.2 release :) -iXo On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 15:27, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi All, > > Thanks a lot for the input on which activities to ship! > > Here is the list of activities I will to management as my suggestion on > what we ship. > > Please help test these! See the end of the e-mail for instructions. > > The list I recommend is essentially the G1G1 activities (kudos to the > team who chose the first set!). In addition to those I list a few which > got repeated votes (except Chess and Sudoku which are a concession to SJ > ;-) > > Original G1G1 activities: > Browse > Read > Write > Paint > Record > TamTam Jam, Mini, on fence: Synthlab, Edit, > Chat > Pippy > Etoys > Turtle Art > Calculate > Measure > Distance > Memorize > Terminal > Log > Analyze > > New ones: > Help > Implode > Speak > Maze > SimCity > Scratch > Xaos > StarChart > Moon > GCompris Chess > GCompris Sudoku > > The only significant change from the original G1G1 set is the TamTam. I > think we should include 2 not 4 so as not to over weight them against > other activities. > > Let me know if anyone has comments on that (Jean can you live with that?). > > Not all of these are sure to make it. On the other hand it's very > unlikely that anything else will make it. So if you have an urgent > request or a specific concern please speak up now. > > Of course, anyone can download additional activities so even if an > activity is not on this list, it still attracts a lot of users. > > We need help testing these with the latest 8.2 image. We plan to make a > release candidate today and if it passes smoke test we will add the > activities and content to create a signed release candidate on Monday! > > Developers, > > Please reply with the final version and URL of each activity which we > should include in the image. Each one must pass final test and have an > active and reachable developer to make the final list. > > Morgan, > > can you make sure we have a contact e-mail and name on each of these? > Also, let me know if you any of them are orphaned or not well maintained. > > All, > > Please test them all one more time let us know how it goes. > > I want to know if each of these passes the tests described here: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_cases_8.2.0#Activities > > Please create a new test case for any activity that needs one. > > To do that, go to this page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Form:Test_case > and entering Tests/Activities/nameofactivity to create a new test case. > Then choose activity from the drop down and you can just paste in the > steps test from above for a start. > > Then you can add a test result by clicking on the "+" sign next to the > test case (it takes a little while for them to show up after creation). > > You can also e-mail comments or test results back to this list. > > Thanks a lot for your help. > > Thanks, > > Greg S > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
Colors! is far superior to Paint. Colors! is a wonderful activity. A lot of fun and can be used for learning how to paint. The replay mechanism is a great learning tool. Using Colors! in shared mode is a great example of the potential of collaboration for aiding creativity. On Sep 19, 2008, at 3:27 PM, Greg Smith wrote: > Hi All, > > Thanks a lot for the input on which activities to ship! > > Here is the list of activities I will to management as my > suggestion on > what we ship. > > Please help test these! See the end of the e-mail for instructions. > > The list I recommend is essentially the G1G1 activities (kudos to the > team who chose the first set!). In addition to those I list a few > which > got repeated votes (except Chess and Sudoku which are a concession > to SJ ;-) > > Original G1G1 activities: > Browse > Read > Write > Paint > Record > TamTam Jam, Mini, on fence: Synthlab, Edit, > Chat > Pippy > Etoys > Turtle Art > Calculate > Measure > Distance > Memorize > Terminal > Log > Analyze > > New ones: > Help > Implode > Speak > Maze > SimCity > Scratch > Xaos > StarChart > Moon > GCompris Chess > GCompris Sudoku > > The only significant change from the original G1G1 set is the > TamTam. I > think we should include 2 not 4 so as not to over weight them against > other activities. > > Let me know if anyone has comments on that (Jean can you live with > that?). > > Not all of these are sure to make it. On the other hand it's very > unlikely that anything else will make it. So if you have an urgent > request or a specific concern please speak up now. > > Of course, anyone can download additional activities so even if an > activity is not on this list, it still attracts a lot of users. > > We need help testing these with the latest 8.2 image. We plan to > make a > release candidate today and if it passes smoke test we will add the > activities and content to create a signed release candidate on Monday! > > Developers, > > Please reply with the final version and URL of each activity which we > should include in the image. Each one must pass final test and have an > active and reachable developer to make the final list. > > Morgan, > > can you make sure we have a contact e-mail and name on each of these? > Also, let me know if you any of them are orphaned or not well > maintained. > > All, > > Please test them all one more time let us know how it goes. > > I want to know if each of these passes the tests described here: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_cases_8.2.0#Activities > > Please create a new test case for any activity that needs one. > > To do that, go to this page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Form:Test_case > and entering Tests/Activities/nameofactivity to create a new test > case. > Then choose activity from the drop down and you can just paste in the > steps test from above for a start. > > Then you can add a test result by clicking on the "+" sign next to the > test case (it takes a little while for them to show up after > creation). > > You can also e-mail comments or test results back to this list. > > Thanks a lot for your help. > > Thanks, > > Greg S > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
Am 25.09.2008 um 10:06 schrieb Sameer Verma: > On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:04 PM, Sameer Verma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Sameer Verma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >>> >>> In an attempt to make the decision-making process more unbiased >>> (or at >>> least more multi-criteria) I've put up a basic spreadsheet for a >>> scoring matrix at >>> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDg&hl=en >>> >>> In the spreadsheet, there are three main components. Column B has >>> factors such as stability, performance, etc to assess against. I >>> just >>> made these up, but feel free to make your own. The weights (column >>> C) >>> essentially defines the importance of each factor as a percentage >>> of a >>> total of 100%. The rest of the columns are for each activity. Feel >>> free to add your own. Score them on a scale of 1 to 10. Each score >>> gets weighted and you'll see totals at the bottom. Sort for the >>> totals >>> in Descending order and skim off the top 10. >>> >>> There you have it. Multi-criteria decision-making made simple. >>> >>> Sameer >>> >> I've added a new set of factors to the spreadsheet which now reflects >> the list from >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Creating_an_activity#Include_your_Activity_in_the_core.3F >> >> This list is row 41 and below. >> >> Before I go on and add more to it, is anyone interested in building >> this further? >> > BTW, the spreadsheet is at > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDg&hl=en So by that metric, Terminal is the best activity. Huh? - Bert - ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
> > BTW, the spreadsheet is at > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDg&hl=en > > So by that metric, Terminal is the best activity. Huh? Yeah. Do these numbers mean anything? What is the point of averaging unrelated numbers? Averaging lines of code score and usability score almost looks like an idea of an innumerate. Teaching kids how to treat these scores properly would be a great lesson. -- Yoshiki ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > BTW, the spreadsheet is at >> > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDg&hl=en >> >> So by that metric, Terminal is the best activity. Huh? > > Yeah. Do these numbers mean anything? What is the point of > averaging unrelated numbers? Averaging lines of code score and > usability score almost looks like an idea of an innumerate. > > Teaching kids how to treat these scores properly would be a great > lesson. > > -- Yoshiki > ___ > Sugar mailing list > Sugar@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar > The numbers are just fillers. They don't mean anything. The idea is for you guys to fill in numbers based on a metric and not because its popular on the list. Feel free to edit as needed. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Sameer Verma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> > BTW, the spreadsheet is at >>> > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDg&hl=en >>> >>> So by that metric, Terminal is the best activity. Huh? >> >> Yeah. Do these numbers mean anything? What is the point of >> averaging unrelated numbers? Averaging lines of code score and >> usability score almost looks like an idea of an innumerate. >> >> Teaching kids how to treat these scores properly would be a great >> lesson. >> >> -- Yoshiki >> ___ >> Sugar mailing list >> Sugar@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar >> > > The numbers are just fillers. They don't mean anything. The idea is > for you guys to fill in numbers based on a metric and not because its > popular on the list. Feel free to edit as needed. > > Sameer Additionally, the list of factors on that spreadsheet were also "out of thin air". If you look at Row 41, you'll see the list of factors from G1G1. The weights can be adjusted as long as they add up to 100% I hope this is making sense. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help, Testing
Hi Sameer, I don't see a lot of support yet (I had to look up innumerate in the dictionary :-) but the Google spreadsheet has been very helpful for me. I like to think I'm not innumerate but I can be obdurate. I hope we keep using it and people can take what they want from it. Each release that goes to manufacturing for G1G1 shipments needs to have a set of activities pre-installed. Other deployments generally get to pick which activities they want or they start with the default "G1G1 set". The same is true of the libraries that you see on the upper left of the opening Browse screen. I leave that area to SJ. In the end, which activities get shipped is up to "the boss" but they are open to suggestions and input. The one critical thing is that the activity must be stable and well supported. Aside from that we can make any suggestion we want and give a justification for it as we see fit. I need to find out how flexible we can be about adding or changing the activities we ship when 8.2.1 goes to manufacturing. Assuming we have some flexibility to change or add, we should start identifying the suggested changes now. I think the spreadsheet is a step in the right direction. If it can help us uncover activities that clearly stand out from the pack that would be very helpful in deciding the next set to ship. FYI one thing I learned in this exercise is that activity authors are available and interested in improving their activities for XO users. We have a little momentum now so I want to revive the excitement in the activity authoring community. I'll follow up on that, after we finish the final regression tests of 8.2. If all goes as planned, XOs will start rolling off the line with 8.2 in six days from today! Thanks, Greg S ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
At Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:37:09 -0500, Sameer Verma wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > BTW, the spreadsheet is at > >> > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDg&hl=en > >> > >> So by that metric, Terminal is the best activity. Huh? > > > > Yeah. Do these numbers mean anything? What is the point of > > averaging unrelated numbers? Averaging lines of code score and > > usability score almost looks like an idea of an innumerate. > > > The numbers are just fillers. They don't mean anything. The idea is > for you guys to fill in numbers based on a metric and not because its > popular on the list. Feel free to edit as needed. I still don't get it... Even if people edit the spreadsheet "as needed", at what point is it going to start "making sense"? The question is whether things can be put on one dimentional axis in this way. As you also know, using numbers doesn't necessarily make it "unbiased". -- Yoshiki ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:37:09 -0500, > Sameer Verma wrote: >> >> On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > BTW, the spreadsheet is at >> >> > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDg&hl=en >> >> >> >> So by that metric, Terminal is the best activity. Huh? >> > >> > Yeah. Do these numbers mean anything? What is the point of >> > averaging unrelated numbers? Averaging lines of code score and >> > usability score almost looks like an idea of an innumerate. >> > >> The numbers are just fillers. They don't mean anything. The idea is >> for you guys to fill in numbers based on a metric and not because its >> popular on the list. Feel free to edit as needed. > > I still don't get it... Even if people edit the spreadsheet "as > needed", at what point is it going to start "making sense"? The > question is whether things can be put on one dimentional axis in this > way. As you also know, using numbers doesn't necessarily make it > "unbiased". > > -- Yoshiki > ___ > Sugar mailing list > Sugar@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar > Hi Yoshiki, So, let's see this from the way it first started. There was a call for for a list of favorites, and the list came in. Everyone has their favorite list. If I say "I want terminal" that's a binary decision. Yes/No. If I say "Terminal is Cool/OK/Sucks" it has three levels inputs. Why I say "Cool" is of course based on my own intuitive assessment, but its not explicit. Instead, if we say the qualification of Terminal is based on attributes such as Epistemiologocal impact, quality, etc. now we have something more explanatory for "Cool". Additionally, by factoring in weights for each item, we can say that they are not all equally important. Epistemological impact is the most important, so we assign it 25%. By scoring each activity on 9 attributes, we spread the bias across the attributes. The weighted score of an activity is its attribute score factored by its weight. As for the biased/unbiased part, yes, you can score all attributes at 10 and get the max possible score, but we are all doing this for a reason, so I assume we'll all be prudent about scoring. Additionally, the scale of 1 to 10 for each attribute provides more variation than a binary yes/no type answer. In the end it all depends on how subjective your scoring was. For example, I really don't know how to rate "Fun" for terminal on a scale of 1 to 10. But, maybe we can collectively say that Terminal scores 7 for "Fun". Now, if Fun wasn't weighted highly for G1G1, it wouldn't make much of a difference anyway. In fact, if we had time, you could also use Monte Carlo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_method) to improve the inputs. Most spreadsheets can do this easily. The weighted scoring approach isn't new. Its used quite commonly in many multi-criteria assessment situations. Given that we are on a time crunch, this may not be the way to go. Maybe flip the coin and be done with it :-) Hopefully next time we can spend more time on a more multi-criteria approach instead of "Cool". cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help, Testing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Sameer, > > I don't see a lot of support yet (I had to look up innumerate in the > dictionary :-) but the Google spreadsheet has been very helpful for me. > I like to think I'm not innumerate but I can be obdurate. > I had to look up obdurate :-) > I hope we keep using it and people can take what they want from it. > Agreed. > Each release that goes to manufacturing for G1G1 shipments needs to have > a set of activities pre-installed. Other deployments generally get to > pick which activities they want or they start with the default "G1G1 set". > > The same is true of the libraries that you see on the upper left of the > opening Browse screen. I leave that area to SJ. > > In the end, which activities get shipped is up to "the boss" but they > are open to suggestions and input. The one critical thing is that the > activity must be stable and well supported. > Indeed. Whoever makes the decision about what activities will ship, its a binary outcome at that point. Ship/Don't ship. I've seen plenty of "strategic IT" decisions made on golf courses to know how that goes ;-) However, the weighted scoring approach makes it easier to spread the decision making across multiple criteria. I use it heavily in my own decisions with everything from buying a car, to selecting a school for my daughter. > Aside from that we can make any suggestion we want and give a > justification for it as we see fit. > > I need to find out how flexible we can be about adding or changing the > activities we ship when 8.2.1 goes to manufacturing. Assuming we have > some flexibility to change or add, we should start identifying the > suggested changes now. > OK. > I think the spreadsheet is a step in the right direction. If it can help > us uncover activities that clearly stand out from the pack that would be > very helpful in deciding the next set to ship. > > FYI one thing I learned in this exercise is that activity authors are > available and interested in improving their activities for XO users. We > have a little momentum now so I want to revive the excitement in the > activity authoring community. > That's the other purpose of such an approach. If a particular activity scored low on "Uniqueness" and "Uniqueness" is of great importance for a given deployment, that's good feedback to the activity's author. > I'll follow up on that, after we finish the final regression tests of 8.2. > OK. I'd be more than happy to help. I've cleaned up a lot of the items on the spreadsheet that were creating confusion. I've basically moved the core stuff to another tab. The old stuff is in the Matrix (deprecated) tab. The new material is in the Matrix (current) tab. Notes tab has basic information and Glossary tab has definitions of "Epistemiological Impact" etc. https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDg&hl=en > If all goes as planned, XOs will start rolling off the line with 8.2 in > six days from today! > My fingers are crossed! cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
