Re: [Sugar-devel] Home Activity resume issues still in Soas2-200903061846?

[Tomeu Vizoso]

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 05:28, Gary C Martin  wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> Just wondered if the auto resume from home is meant to be fixed now in
> Soas2-200903061846? I saw the patches from Tomeu go past quite a while
> ago. For me in Soas2-200903061846 it's still causing duplicate
> instances of an activity rather than actually switching the the
> existing instance. An rpm -q sugar says:
>
>        sugar-0.84.0-1.fc11.i586
>
> Hopefully just something broken with F11 (maybe dbus? I'm guessing
> badly).

Should be working, though I haven't found yet a way to run Soas2. How
are you running that image?

Thanks,

Tomeu
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Video chat contact

[Bernie Innocenti]

[cc += sugar-devel@, morgs, guillaume]

Christoph Derndorfer wrote:
> after several attempts I finally managed to get the Video Chat activity 
> (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Video_Chat) working so Freemor and I could 
> talk for a little while.
> 
> However we also ran into a couple of very odd issues, e.g. my Video Chat 
> instance disappeared from the frame as soon we were connected, however 
> audio still worked and Freemor was able to see the feed from my camera.
> 
> Anyway, now I was wondering who to contact wrt these issues, the wiki 
> page doesn't seem to contain any contact information and the Trac 
> entries also only point to a somewhat generic sounding Collabora account.

Did you get any answer, Christoph?  The developers are more likely
to spot technical questions like this if you Cc sugar-de...@.

Morgs and Guillaume seem to have worked on it over 6 months ago:
  http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/video-chat-activity/

-- 
   // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/
 \X/  Sugar Labs   - http://www.sugarlabs.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Quick run through of Activities on Soas2-200903061846

[Bert Freudenberg]

On 12.03.2009, at 05:18, Gary C Martin wrote:

> Environment: VirtualBoxVM running on an Intel Mac
> SoaS: Soas2-200903061846
> Build: Fedora release 10.91 (Rawhide)
> Sugar: 0.84.0


I tried this again, in WMWare Fusion on Mac.

On first boot, I got the "no loop device found" error.

On second boot, it worked fine.

One thing I noticed when shutting down is that the CD drive is still  
locked, which VMWare complains/warns about.

> Etoys-100: Fails, line 77: exec etoys: not found

Did you install Etoys yourself? AFAICT it is not pre-installed yet.  
SoaS-2 is still missing the "etoys" glucose module, so the fructose  
"Etoys" won't work.

Basically, the stand-alone Etoys.xo is only useful on raw OLPC builds,  
which only ship glucose but not fructose.

> Scratch-12: exec: /usr/bin/squeak: cannot execute: No such file or  
> directory


This depends on the squeak virtual machine, which would have been  
pulled in by the etoys rpm if it was installed.

Thanks for testing and reporting back!

- Bert -

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Home Activity resume issues still in Soas2-200903061846?

[Bert Freudenberg]

On 12.03.2009, at 10:08, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 05:28, Gary C Martin   
> wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> Just wondered if the auto resume from home is meant to be fixed now  
>> in
>> Soas2-200903061846? I saw the patches from Tomeu go past quite a  
>> while
>> ago. For me in Soas2-200903061846 it's still causing duplicate
>> instances of an activity rather than actually switching the the
>> existing instance. An rpm -q sugar says:
>>
>>sugar-0.84.0-1.fc11.i586
>>
>> Hopefully just something broken with F11 (maybe dbus? I'm guessing
>> badly).
>
> Should be working

It's only working from the "circle" home view for me, not the "list"  
view.

> though I haven't found yet a way to run Soas2. How are you running  
> that image?


WMWare works fine, so I assume the VMWare player for Linux would work  
too. Gary was using VirtualBox IIRC.

- Bert -


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[Sugar-devel] SoaS-200903051021

[Dave Bauer]

I have successfully installed SoaS on USB and booted on my laptop.

After 15 mins the screen goes blank, perhaps for power savings, and I cannot
get it to come back on. Even if I reboot, once I get into sugar the screen
is blanked out.

Does anyone have an idea or hint where I can debug this? I was able to get
into the virtual consolse and login. I reviewed the logs but I didn't see
any events in the log that would hint at a solution.

Dave
-- 
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d...@solutiongrove.com
http://www.solutiongrove.com
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[Sugar-devel] string freeze exception request

[Tomeu Vizoso]

Hi,

would like to add the string "Dismiss" to the sugar module.

It's used for dismissing a file transfer icon from the frame.

Thanks,

Tomeu
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Re: [Sugar-devel] yet another corrected screenshot image!

[Walter Bender]

I haven't studied it in any scientific way, but I have never seen
anyone use freeform in the field. I can also make a strong case for
its inappropriateness in the classroom and the additional support
overhead. For simplicity-sake, if for no other reason, we should drop
it.

That said, I cannot argue with your observation that an overloaded
ring is problematic as well. For 0.86, we should consider some of
spiral options, such as the sunflower, which are much more space
efficient. At the same time, I think the real answer lies in better
use the idea that groups of activities can be selected for the ring: a
teacher might say to the child, this week, I want everyone to put
Browse, Write, and Turrtle Art on their desktops. At home, a different
collection might be available. So maybe we can explore the notion of
collections rather than layouts?

-walter

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
 wrote:
> I fully understand your confusion, this issue has been going back and
> forth for too long.
>
> We should probably talk this over more thoroughly before deciding
> either way. Nicholas had (and I'm assuming still has) very strong
> reservations about the ring, which caused us to reconsider it, but at
> the time it was too late to change and it made it into the build. As
> you know I was initially in favor of the ring (which I think has a
> strong iconic presence), but when I began seeing screenshots of
> overloaded rings it seemed like the favorites model perhaps wasn't
> working as well as we had hoped.
>
> This is a case where it would really help to do observations and see
> how children are using the Home view, and which of the two views they
> prefer using... Or do we have any findings and observations we can
> already draw from?
>
> For now, the question remains which view (freeform/ring) we use to
> represent Sugar. Or perhaps at least in the interim it would make
> sense to avoid Home altogether and use the Neighborhood view as the
> "signature" shot?
>
> I agree that we would ideally keep either the ring or freeform, but
> not both, for simplicity...
>
> More discussion ahead, I sense.
>
>
> Christian
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Walter Bender  
> wrote:
>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
>>  wrote:
>>> Hi Sean
>>>
>>>
>>> We are currently debating moving to freeform view as the default
>>> (maybe even the only) view in Home. To be on the safe side, should we
>>> use that view here instead, seeing as it already exists in the UI?
>>> CC'ing Walter for his thoughts as well...
>>>
>>
>> Boy am I ever confused. I thought (and hoped) that we were going to
>> get rid of the freeform view, not the ring view.
>>
>> -walter
>>
>> --
>> Walter Bender
>> Sugar Labs
>> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com
>
> http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com
>
> 917/ 575 0013
>



-- 
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Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [Sugar-devel] yet another corrected screenshot image!

[Jameson Quinn]

I agree that we should drop freeform, and choose one, iconic, layout. Then
we could plan for easy searching - using tags, names, or recentness - which
greyed out the unselected apps.

If we did this, my vote would be: ring up to 16 activities, then a single
(non-sunflower) spiral.

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

> I haven't studied it in any scientific way, but I have never seen
> anyone use freeform in the field. I can also make a strong case for
> its inappropriateness in the classroom and the additional support
> overhead. For simplicity-sake, if for no other reason, we should drop
> it.
>
> That said, I cannot argue with your observation that an overloaded
> ring is problematic as well. For 0.86, we should consider some of
> spiral options, such as the sunflower, which are much more space
> efficient. At the same time, I think the real answer lies in better
> use the idea that groups of activities can be selected for the ring: a
> teacher might say to the child, this week, I want everyone to put
> Browse, Write, and Turrtle Art on their desktops. At home, a different
> collection might be available. So maybe we can explore the notion of
> collections rather than layouts?
>
> -walter
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
>  wrote:
> > I fully understand your confusion, this issue has been going back and
> > forth for too long.
> >
> > We should probably talk this over more thoroughly before deciding
> > either way. Nicholas had (and I'm assuming still has) very strong
> > reservations about the ring, which caused us to reconsider it, but at
> > the time it was too late to change and it made it into the build. As
> > you know I was initially in favor of the ring (which I think has a
> > strong iconic presence), but when I began seeing screenshots of
> > overloaded rings it seemed like the favorites model perhaps wasn't
> > working as well as we had hoped.
> >
> > This is a case where it would really help to do observations and see
> > how children are using the Home view, and which of the two views they
> > prefer using... Or do we have any findings and observations we can
> > already draw from?
> >
> > For now, the question remains which view (freeform/ring) we use to
> > represent Sugar. Or perhaps at least in the interim it would make
> > sense to avoid Home altogether and use the Neighborhood view as the
> > "signature" shot?
> >
> > I agree that we would ideally keep either the ring or freeform, but
> > not both, for simplicity...
> >
> > More discussion ahead, I sense.
> >
> >
> > Christian
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Walter Bender 
> wrote:
> >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
> >>  wrote:
> >>> Hi Sean
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We are currently debating moving to freeform view as the default
> >>> (maybe even the only) view in Home. To be on the safe side, should we
> >>> use that view here instead, seeing as it already exists in the UI?
> >>> CC'ing Walter for his thoughts as well...
> >>>
> >>
> >> Boy am I ever confused. I thought (and hoped) that we were going to
> >> get rid of the freeform view, not the ring view.
> >>
> >> -walter
> >>
> >> --
> >> Walter Bender
> >> Sugar Labs
> >> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com
> >
> > http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com
> >
> > 917/ 575 0013
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
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>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] yet another corrected screenshot image!

[Christian Marc Schmidt]

I think it would be a good idea to call a design meeting to hash out
the pros and cons of both views, freeform and ring (ring working only
in conjunction with favorites, which we know is it's current
limitation).

We could also discuss a possible third view, but then I believe it is
important that it feels related to the UI design as a whole (both
freeform and ring do, bearing similarity to the organization in
neighborhood and groups). Maybe there are solutions to make ring more
scalable, as Sean was suggesting?

Unfortunately Eben is traveling this weekend, so let's shoot for the following.

Are all interested parties able to convene on #sugar-meeting at 10am
EST/13.00 UTC on Saturday March 21 for an initial discussion where we
discuss the benefits of either view and will attempt to make a
decision? Please come prepared with your thoughts, and as much
research as you are able to obtain from actual observations with
children!


Christian


On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Walter Bender  wrote:
> I haven't studied it in any scientific way, but I have never seen
> anyone use freeform in the field. I can also make a strong case for
> its inappropriateness in the classroom and the additional support
> overhead. For simplicity-sake, if for no other reason, we should drop
> it.
>
> That said, I cannot argue with your observation that an overloaded
> ring is problematic as well. For 0.86, we should consider some of
> spiral options, such as the sunflower, which are much more space
> efficient. At the same time, I think the real answer lies in better
> use the idea that groups of activities can be selected for the ring: a
> teacher might say to the child, this week, I want everyone to put
> Browse, Write, and Turrtle Art on their desktops. At home, a different
> collection might be available. So maybe we can explore the notion of
> collections rather than layouts?
>
> -walter
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
>  wrote:
>> I fully understand your confusion, this issue has been going back and
>> forth for too long.
>>
>> We should probably talk this over more thoroughly before deciding
>> either way. Nicholas had (and I'm assuming still has) very strong
>> reservations about the ring, which caused us to reconsider it, but at
>> the time it was too late to change and it made it into the build. As
>> you know I was initially in favor of the ring (which I think has a
>> strong iconic presence), but when I began seeing screenshots of
>> overloaded rings it seemed like the favorites model perhaps wasn't
>> working as well as we had hoped.
>>
>> This is a case where it would really help to do observations and see
>> how children are using the Home view, and which of the two views they
>> prefer using... Or do we have any findings and observations we can
>> already draw from?
>>
>> For now, the question remains which view (freeform/ring) we use to
>> represent Sugar. Or perhaps at least in the interim it would make
>> sense to avoid Home altogether and use the Neighborhood view as the
>> "signature" shot?
>>
>> I agree that we would ideally keep either the ring or freeform, but
>> not both, for simplicity...
>>
>> More discussion ahead, I sense.
>>
>>
>> Christian
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Walter Bender  
>> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
>>>  wrote:
 Hi Sean


 We are currently debating moving to freeform view as the default
 (maybe even the only) view in Home. To be on the safe side, should we
 use that view here instead, seeing as it already exists in the UI?
 CC'ing Walter for his thoughts as well...

>>>
>>> Boy am I ever confused. I thought (and hoped) that we were going to
>>> get rid of the freeform view, not the ring view.
>>>
>>> -walter
>>>
>>> --
>>> Walter Bender
>>> Sugar Labs
>>> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com
>>
>> http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com
>>
>> 917/ 575 0013
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>



-- 
anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com

http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com

917/ 575 0013
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[Sugar-devel] SugarBot in 2009

[Simon Schampijer]

Hi,

we lost somehow track in integrating SugarBot [1] the last time. It 
looks quite promising and ready though:

http://code.google.com/p/sugarbot/wiki/RunningSugar

Is there someone interested in taking this on?

Zach, anything you see that would block these efforts?

Regards,
Simon

[1] sugarbot is a GUI automation utility for the OLPC Project's Sugar 
GUI. It provides functionality for developers to write tests for their 
Activities, and monitor those tests in a similar manner to unit-tests. 
sugarbot supports buildbot, so that multiple platforms and host 
configurations may be tested seamlessly.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] yet another corrected screenshot image!

[Wade Brainerd]

Hey all,

I'd like to take the opportunity to (as usual) plug my alternate home
view design.

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Wade/Ideas/Activity_Management

If people feel that it would be worth exploring I'd be happy to flesh
the design out further.

Unfortunately it's unlikely that I'll be able to make the Saturday
chat, but I can try if there is real interest.

Regards,
Wade

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
 wrote:
> I think it would be a good idea to call a design meeting to hash out
> the pros and cons of both views, freeform and ring (ring working only
> in conjunction with favorites, which we know is it's current
> limitation).
>
> We could also discuss a possible third view, but then I believe it is
> important that it feels related to the UI design as a whole (both
> freeform and ring do, bearing similarity to the organization in
> neighborhood and groups). Maybe there are solutions to make ring more
> scalable, as Sean was suggesting?
>
> Unfortunately Eben is traveling this weekend, so let's shoot for the 
> following.
>
> Are all interested parties able to convene on #sugar-meeting at 10am
> EST/13.00 UTC on Saturday March 21 for an initial discussion where we
> discuss the benefits of either view and will attempt to make a
> decision? Please come prepared with your thoughts, and as much
> research as you are able to obtain from actual observations with
> children!
>
>
> Christian
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Walter Bender  
> wrote:
>> I haven't studied it in any scientific way, but I have never seen
>> anyone use freeform in the field. I can also make a strong case for
>> its inappropriateness in the classroom and the additional support
>> overhead. For simplicity-sake, if for no other reason, we should drop
>> it.
>>
>> That said, I cannot argue with your observation that an overloaded
>> ring is problematic as well. For 0.86, we should consider some of
>> spiral options, such as the sunflower, which are much more space
>> efficient. At the same time, I think the real answer lies in better
>> use the idea that groups of activities can be selected for the ring: a
>> teacher might say to the child, this week, I want everyone to put
>> Browse, Write, and Turrtle Art on their desktops. At home, a different
>> collection might be available. So maybe we can explore the notion of
>> collections rather than layouts?
>>
>> -walter
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
>>  wrote:
>>> I fully understand your confusion, this issue has been going back and
>>> forth for too long.
>>>
>>> We should probably talk this over more thoroughly before deciding
>>> either way. Nicholas had (and I'm assuming still has) very strong
>>> reservations about the ring, which caused us to reconsider it, but at
>>> the time it was too late to change and it made it into the build. As
>>> you know I was initially in favor of the ring (which I think has a
>>> strong iconic presence), but when I began seeing screenshots of
>>> overloaded rings it seemed like the favorites model perhaps wasn't
>>> working as well as we had hoped.
>>>
>>> This is a case where it would really help to do observations and see
>>> how children are using the Home view, and which of the two views they
>>> prefer using... Or do we have any findings and observations we can
>>> already draw from?
>>>
>>> For now, the question remains which view (freeform/ring) we use to
>>> represent Sugar. Or perhaps at least in the interim it would make
>>> sense to avoid Home altogether and use the Neighborhood view as the
>>> "signature" shot?
>>>
>>> I agree that we would ideally keep either the ring or freeform, but
>>> not both, for simplicity...
>>>
>>> More discussion ahead, I sense.
>>>
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Walter Bender  
>>> wrote:
 On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
  wrote:
> Hi Sean
>
>
> We are currently debating moving to freeform view as the default
> (maybe even the only) view in Home. To be on the safe side, should we
> use that view here instead, seeing as it already exists in the UI?
> CC'ing Walter for his thoughts as well...
>

 Boy am I ever confused. I thought (and hoped) that we were going to
 get rid of the freeform view, not the ring view.

 -walter

 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com
>>>
>>> http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com
>>>
>>> 917/ 575 0013
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Walter Bender
>> Sugar Labs
>> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com
>
> http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com
>
> 917/ 575 0013
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Quick run through of Activities on Soas2-200903061846

[Gary C Martin]

Hi Bert,

On 12 Mar 2009, at 10:22, Bert Freudenberg wrote:

> On 12.03.2009, at 05:18, Gary C Martin wrote:
>
>> Environment: VirtualBoxVM running on an Intel Mac
>> SoaS: Soas2-200903061846
>> Build: Fedora release 10.91 (Rawhide)
>> Sugar: 0.84.0
>
> I tried this again, in WMWare Fusion on Mac.
>
> On first boot, I got the "no loop device found" error.
>
> On second boot, it worked fine.
>
> One thing I noticed when shutting down is that the CD drive is still  
> locked, which VMWare complains/warns about.

I haven't given VMWare a try yet, but it was on my list of other VM's  
to try now that I have an Intel based box to play with. Sun's  
VirtualBox seems to be playing very well from what I've tried so far.

>> Etoys-100: Fails, line 77: exec etoys: not found
>
> Did you install Etoys yourself? AFAICT it is not pre-installed yet.  
> SoaS-2 is still missing the "etoys" glucose module, so the fructose  
> "Etoys" won't work.

Yes, etoys glucose is still missing from builds (I wasn't sure at the  
time I tried), I'd installed the Etoys-100 fructose bundle manually  
just to try.

> Basically, the stand-alone Etoys.xo is only useful on raw OLPC  
> builds, which only ship glucose but not fructose.
>
>> Scratch-12: exec: /usr/bin/squeak: cannot execute: No such file or  
>> directory
>
> This depends on the squeak virtual machine, which would have been  
> pulled in by the etoys rpm if it was installed.
>
> Thanks for testing and reporting back!

No problem! Having a machine I can nw run (multiple) VMs on is going  
to make some of this testing a lot easier, especially with the real  
XOs for comparison.

I'm getting really kind'a worried about the level of marketing hype  
that may go out with the Sugar 0.84.0 official 'launch', without a  
good set of stable and useful Activities, promoting Sugar is like  
promoting rock concert without actual musicians.

> - Bert -

Regards,
--Gary
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] yet another corrected screenshot image!

[Christian Marc Schmidt]

Hi Wade--your proposal looks very interesting. Let's discuss on the
call on March 21st, if you are able to join us then (at 10am EST).


Christian

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Wade Brainerd  wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I'd like to take the opportunity to (as usual) plug my alternate home
> view design.
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Wade/Ideas/Activity_Management
>
> If people feel that it would be worth exploring I'd be happy to flesh
> the design out further.
>
> Unfortunately it's unlikely that I'll be able to make the Saturday
> chat, but I can try if there is real interest.
>
> Regards,
> Wade
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
>  wrote:
>> I think it would be a good idea to call a design meeting to hash out
>> the pros and cons of both views, freeform and ring (ring working only
>> in conjunction with favorites, which we know is it's current
>> limitation).
>>
>> We could also discuss a possible third view, but then I believe it is
>> important that it feels related to the UI design as a whole (both
>> freeform and ring do, bearing similarity to the organization in
>> neighborhood and groups). Maybe there are solutions to make ring more
>> scalable, as Sean was suggesting?
>>
>> Unfortunately Eben is traveling this weekend, so let's shoot for the 
>> following.
>>
>> Are all interested parties able to convene on #sugar-meeting at 10am
>> EST/13.00 UTC on Saturday March 21 for an initial discussion where we
>> discuss the benefits of either view and will attempt to make a
>> decision? Please come prepared with your thoughts, and as much
>> research as you are able to obtain from actual observations with
>> children!
>>
>>
>> Christian
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Walter Bender  
>> wrote:
>>> I haven't studied it in any scientific way, but I have never seen
>>> anyone use freeform in the field. I can also make a strong case for
>>> its inappropriateness in the classroom and the additional support
>>> overhead. For simplicity-sake, if for no other reason, we should drop
>>> it.
>>>
>>> That said, I cannot argue with your observation that an overloaded
>>> ring is problematic as well. For 0.86, we should consider some of
>>> spiral options, such as the sunflower, which are much more space
>>> efficient. At the same time, I think the real answer lies in better
>>> use the idea that groups of activities can be selected for the ring: a
>>> teacher might say to the child, this week, I want everyone to put
>>> Browse, Write, and Turrtle Art on their desktops. At home, a different
>>> collection might be available. So maybe we can explore the notion of
>>> collections rather than layouts?
>>>
>>> -walter
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
>>>  wrote:
 I fully understand your confusion, this issue has been going back and
 forth for too long.

 We should probably talk this over more thoroughly before deciding
 either way. Nicholas had (and I'm assuming still has) very strong
 reservations about the ring, which caused us to reconsider it, but at
 the time it was too late to change and it made it into the build. As
 you know I was initially in favor of the ring (which I think has a
 strong iconic presence), but when I began seeing screenshots of
 overloaded rings it seemed like the favorites model perhaps wasn't
 working as well as we had hoped.

 This is a case where it would really help to do observations and see
 how children are using the Home view, and which of the two views they
 prefer using... Or do we have any findings and observations we can
 already draw from?

 For now, the question remains which view (freeform/ring) we use to
 represent Sugar. Or perhaps at least in the interim it would make
 sense to avoid Home altogether and use the Neighborhood view as the
 "signature" shot?

 I agree that we would ideally keep either the ring or freeform, but
 not both, for simplicity...

 More discussion ahead, I sense.


 Christian


 On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Walter Bender  
 wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
>  wrote:
>> Hi Sean
>>
>>
>> We are currently debating moving to freeform view as the default
>> (maybe even the only) view in Home. To be on the safe side, should we
>> use that view here instead, seeing as it already exists in the UI?
>> CC'ing Walter for his thoughts as well...
>>
>
> Boy am I ever confused. I thought (and hoped) that we were going to
> get rid of the freeform view, not the ring view.
>
> -walter
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>



 --
 anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com

 http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com

 917/ 575 0013

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Walter Bender
>>> Sugar Labs
>>> http://www.s

Re: [Sugar-devel] Quick run through of Activities on Soas2-200903061846

[Tomeu Vizoso]

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 18:55, Gary C Martin  wrote:
> Hi Bert,
>
> On 12 Mar 2009, at 10:22, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>
>> On 12.03.2009, at 05:18, Gary C Martin wrote:
>>
>>> Environment: VirtualBoxVM running on an Intel Mac
>>> SoaS: Soas2-200903061846
>>> Build: Fedora release 10.91 (Rawhide)
>>> Sugar: 0.84.0
>>
>> I tried this again, in WMWare Fusion on Mac.
>>
>> On first boot, I got the "no loop device found" error.
>>
>> On second boot, it worked fine.
>>
>> One thing I noticed when shutting down is that the CD drive is still
>> locked, which VMWare complains/warns about.
>
> I haven't given VMWare a try yet, but it was on my list of other VM's
> to try now that I have an Intel based box to play with. Sun's
> VirtualBox seems to be playing very well from what I've tried so far.
>
>>> Etoys-100: Fails, line 77: exec etoys: not found
>>
>> Did you install Etoys yourself? AFAICT it is not pre-installed yet.
>> SoaS-2 is still missing the "etoys" glucose module, so the fructose
>> "Etoys" won't work.
>
> Yes, etoys glucose is still missing from builds (I wasn't sure at the
> time I tried), I'd installed the Etoys-100 fructose bundle manually
> just to try.

I think SMParrish is going to make a group package that would pull all
of glucose.

>> Basically, the stand-alone Etoys.xo is only useful on raw OLPC
>> builds, which only ship glucose but not fructose.
>>
>>> Scratch-12: exec: /usr/bin/squeak: cannot execute: No such file or
>>> directory
>>
>> This depends on the squeak virtual machine, which would have been
>> pulled in by the etoys rpm if it was installed.
>>
>> Thanks for testing and reporting back!
>
> No problem! Having a machine I can nw run (multiple) VMs on is going
> to make some of this testing a lot easier, especially with the real
> XOs for comparison.
>
> I'm getting really kind'a worried about the level of marketing hype
> that may go out with the Sugar 0.84.0 official 'launch', without a
> good set of stable and useful Activities, promoting Sugar is like
> promoting rock concert without actual musicians.

I get the point and agree, but could be said that in most rock
concerts don't perform any actual musicians :p

Regards,

Tomeu
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows

[Dave Bauer]

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Wade Brainerd  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Luke Faraone  wrote:
>  Virtualbox is Free and potentially similar.  Also, coLinux
>  requires Administrator privileges to run, so students on school
> computers
>  probably can't use it.[1]
> >>> Don't VMs on Windows require admin privileges to install and/or run (I
> >>> honestly don't know)?
> >>
> >> I presume that we can package up the emulator as just some .exe on a USB
> >> stick, to be run without needing installation.
> >
> > VirtualBox and VMWare all need drivers in the Windows kernel, so you
> > are limitted to amazingly slow quemu.
>
> QEMU is plenty fast when you install the acceleration service.  What
> it lacks is a simple installer.
>
> > Finally, we cannot legally redistribute VMware and the interesting
> > parts of VirtualBox like USB and rdesktop support.
>
> We can redistribute VMware player as part of a Virtual Appliance.
>
> But really, all we need to be doing is producing .vmdk files (virtual
> disk images) for our SoaS snapshots.  These files can be loaded in any
> of VMware, VirtualBox and Parallels, and can be used with QEMU after a
> command line conversion step.
>

You need the VMware, VirtualBox, or Parallels specifc extensions and
drivers, so we really end up needing one image for each platform to make
this easy for people to use. Hackers can of course, always customize the
VMDK.

I just tried coverting the VirtualBox VDI and learned that Parallels can't
just load the image, it needs the VMware or VirtualBox VM configuration file
that goes with the VM to do the import.

I am sure its possible, but it's a little trickier than it looks.

Dave

>
> Once we have a stream of .vmdk files coming, we can move on to
> creating Virtual Appliances or other easier to use solutions.
>
> Check out 
> http://dev.laptop.org/~wadeb/OLPC-XO-Software-8.2.0-Setup.exe
> for an example of a QEMU-based installer for Windows.  This uses
> OLPC's 8.2.0 release but could be easily retargeted at SoaS.
>
> Cheers,
> Wade
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 
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d...@solutiongrove.com
http://www.solutiongrove.com
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows

[Sascha Silbe]

Removed iaep from CC as I we're just talking about technical details 
without educational impact now.


On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 10:44:32PM -0400, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote:

[Sugar _does_ work (natively) over an ssh tunnel]

Are you using the "sugar-emulator" command?

Usually, but I've also run sugar directly on a regular X server:

startx $(which ssh) su...@aquarium.local ./.xinitrc -- :2

(with .xinitrc containing "exec dbus-launch --exit-with-session 
sugar-shell")


I tried it again a few minutes ago and it's about as fast (or rather 
slow) as locally (haven't tried out any fancy stuff like Jukebox 
though).


The most interesting thing was that Debian bug #512258 [1] did NOT 
happen (while the same command - with or without ssh - issued locally 
triggered it). But that's only a side issue. :)


Don't VMs on Windows require admin privileges to install and/or run 
(I honestly don't know)?
I presume that we can package up the emulator as just some .exe on a 
USB stick, to be run without needing installation.
As I've heard (read: I don't really know) most VMs on Windows need 
kernel drivers as well. Those would need to be installed by an 
administrator.



[1] http://bugs.debian.org/512258

CU Sascha

--
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http://www.infra-silbe.de/


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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows

[Dave Bauer]

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Dave Bauer  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Wade Brainerd  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Luke Faraone  wrote:
>>  Virtualbox is Free and potentially similar.  Also, coLinux
>>  requires Administrator privileges to run, so students on school
>> computers
>>  probably can't use it.[1]
>> >>> Don't VMs on Windows require admin privileges to install and/or run (I
>> >>> honestly don't know)?
>> >>
>> >> I presume that we can package up the emulator as just some .exe on a
>> USB
>> >> stick, to be run without needing installation.
>> >
>> > VirtualBox and VMWare all need drivers in the Windows kernel, so you
>> > are limitted to amazingly slow quemu.
>>
>> QEMU is plenty fast when you install the acceleration service.  What
>> it lacks is a simple installer.
>>
>> > Finally, we cannot legally redistribute VMware and the interesting
>> > parts of VirtualBox like USB and rdesktop support.
>>
>> We can redistribute VMware player as part of a Virtual Appliance.
>>
>> But really, all we need to be doing is producing .vmdk files (virtual
>> disk images) for our SoaS snapshots.  These files can be loaded in any
>> of VMware, VirtualBox and Parallels, and can be used with QEMU after a
>> command line conversion step.
>>
>
> You need the VMware, VirtualBox, or Parallels specifc extensions and
> drivers, so we really end up needing one image for each platform to make
> this easy for people to use. Hackers can of course, always customize the
> VMDK.
>
> I just tried coverting the VirtualBox VDI and learned that Parallels can't
> just load the image, it needs the VMware or VirtualBox VM configuration file
> that goes with the VM to do the import.
>
> I am sure its possible, but it's a little trickier than it looks.
>

Ok, I was able to take the Virtualbox VM and conver it to run in Parallels,
but its not easy and you definitely need to install the Parallels Tools. I
also have created a new Parallels native VM based on SoaS slightly modifying
the instructions to build the VM on Virtualbox.

Dave


>
> Dave
>
>>
>> Once we have a stream of .vmdk files coming, we can move on to
>> creating Virtual Appliances or other easier to use solutions.
>>
>> Check out 
>> http://dev.laptop.org/~wadeb/OLPC-XO-Software-8.2.0-Setup.exe
>> for an example of a QEMU-based installer for Windows.  This uses
>> OLPC's 8.2.0 release but could be easily retargeted at SoaS.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Wade
>> ___
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dave Bauer
> d...@solutiongrove.com
> http://www.solutiongrove.com
>



-- 
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d...@solutiongrove.com
http://www.solutiongrove.com
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[Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] CartoonBuilder-3

[Aleksey Lim]

http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4037

== Source ==

http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/honey/CartoonBuilder/CartoonBuilder-3.tar.bz2

== Bundle ==

http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/downloads/file/25947/cartoonbuilder-3.xo

== NEWS ==

* Run activity in CM12 environment
* Swtich to simplejson

-- 
Aleksey
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[Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] InfoSlicer-4

[Aleksey Lim]

http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4042

== Source ==

http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/honey/InfoSlicer/InfoSlicer-4.tar.bz2

== Bundle ==

http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/downloads/file/25952/infoslicer-4.xo

== NEWS ==

* Run activity in CM12 environment

-- 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows

[Luke Faraone]

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Dave Bauer  wrote:

> But really, all we need to be doing is producing .vmdk files (virtual
>>> disk images) for our SoaS snapshots.  These files can be loaded in any
>>> of VMware, VirtualBox and Parallels, and can be used with QEMU after a
>>> command line conversion step.
>>>
>>
In any case, even if it was this easy (other seem to report otherwise), it's
more steps than an educator should have to perform. The idea is that we can
provide them with prepackaged, no extra-fluff-needed executables, *as well*
as in raw image formats.

Moreover, VMDK files are (IIRC) hard to generate programmatically, whereas
COW/QEMU images can be generated easilly as part of a build script.
-- 
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http://luke.faraone.cc
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows

[Wade Brainerd]

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Luke Faraone  wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Dave Bauer  wrote:

 But really, all we need to be doing is producing .vmdk files (virtual
 disk images) for our SoaS snapshots.  These files can be loaded in any
 of VMware, VirtualBox and Parallels, and can be used with QEMU after a
 command line conversion step.
>
> In any case, even if it was this easy (other seem to report otherwise), it's
> more steps than an educator should have to perform. The idea is that we can
> provide them with prepackaged, no extra-fluff-needed executables, *as well*
> as in raw image formats.
>
> Moreover, VMDK files are (IIRC) hard to generate programmatically, whereas
> COW/QEMU images can be generated easilly as part of a build script.

Actually, you can create a .vmdk from .img using the QEMU tools.  It's
just that .vmdk is much more widely supported that .img so it would
save a conversion step for most VM users.

I agree that we should be providing 1 click solutions *in addition* to
providing .vmdk files for people who already use VMs regularly.

Wade
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows

[Dave Bauer]

>
> Actually, you can create a .vmdk from .img using the QEMU tools.  It's
> just that .vmdk is much more widely supported that .img so it would
> save a conversion step for most VM users.
>
> I agree that we should be providing 1 click solutions *in addition* to
> providing .vmdk files for people who already use VMs regularly.
>

Right, VMDK is not easily reusable though, for Parallels you have to perform
a few steps to reuse it.

One click solution is the goal of course. QEMU really isn't that solution
unless you can use acceleration. The speed is pretty much unusable
otherwise, and that is really only useful for testing if you are very
patient. Anyone who needs a 1-click installer also would expect reasonable
performance.
 I haven't found an easy way to get QEMU working with acceleration on OS X.
I think we are working towards a solution, just not as quickly as we would
like.

Dave

>
> Wade
>



-- 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows

[Wade Brainerd]

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Dave Bauer  wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>> Actually, you can create a .vmdk from .img using the QEMU tools.  It's
>> just that .vmdk is much more widely supported that .img so it would
>> save a conversion step for most VM users.
>>
>> I agree that we should be providing 1 click solutions *in addition* to
>> providing .vmdk files for people who already use VMs regularly.
>
> Right, VMDK is not easily reusable though, for Parallels you have to perform
> a few steps to reuse it.
>
> One click solution is the goal of course. QEMU really isn't that solution
> unless you can use acceleration. The speed is pretty much unusable
> otherwise, and that is really only useful for testing if you are very
> patient. Anyone who needs a 1-click installer also would expect reasonable
> performance.
>  I haven't found an easy way to get QEMU working with acceleration on OS X.
> I think we are working towards a solution, just not as quickly as we would
> like.
>
> Dave

I brought up VMware Virtual Appliances as an option at one point, has
anyone tried creating one of those?  I'm not sure how close to "one
click" they are though.

VirtualBox appears to have the beginnings of some appliance support as well.

Best,
Wade
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows

[Luke Faraone]

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Wade Brainerd  wrote:

> I brought up VMware Virtual Appliances as an option at one point, has
> anyone tried creating one of those?  I'm not sure how close to "one
> click" they are though.
>

My main problem wiht VMWare is that it's closed-source and hard to convert
to other formats.


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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows

[S Page]

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Dave Bauer  wrote:
>  I haven't found an easy way to get QEMU working with acceleration on OS X.

QEMU on Windows is also confused, or I am.

http://sugarlabs.org/go/Supported_systems/Windows still points to
Wade's fine bundle and detailed steps from Ton van Overbeek  but both
are to run OLPC 8.2.0 images which is old Sucrose.

Meanwhile http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Emulating_the_XO/Quick_Start/Windows
and its parent have lots of information about QEMU, but mostly
out-of-date.

I put today's SoaS2 ISO in my dusty old qemu 0.9.0 directory on
Windows XP.  I think you use "-cdrom Soas2-200903121944.iso" to make
it work.

C:\Qemu> net start kqemu

The KQEMU virtualisation module for QEMU service was started successfully.

C:\Qemu>qemu.exe -L . -m 256 -kernel-kqemu -soundhw es1370 -net user
-net nic,model=rtl8139 -cdrom Soas2-200903121944.iso

Version mismatch between kqemu module and qemu (00010400 00010300) -
disabling kqemu use

Maybe that's why it's mind-blowingly slow to boot.


QEMU 0.10 is out, but the two Japanese URLs don't have Windows
binaries.  Some random person at
http://qemu-forum.ipi.fi/viewtopic.php?f=5&p=14435 has a Windows
build, while a compatible kqemu accelerator is nowhere to be found.
There is a QEMU 0.9.1 Windows binary, I don't know if available kqemu
works for it.

Emulating OLPC OS Images with QEMU has been difficult on any platform
ever since the 3DNow! extensions problem arose, I think that's why
Wade and Ton van Overbeek made special binaries.  But maybe old
versions of qemu/kqemu are fine for SoaS images.


> I think we are working towards a solution, just not as quickly as we would
> like.
The story of the life since the Industrial Revolution ;-)

Regards,
--
=S Page
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