date:20090402

2009/4/2 Christian Marc Schmidt :
> Gary, this looks great--thanks for resizing the logo.
>
> It might be nice to have the logo change color, like on the website. Just a
> thought.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. A simple inline script tag would
do the trick, probably.

Eben

>
> Christian
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Gary C Martin  wrote:
>>
>> On 1 Apr 2009, at 16:27, Christian Marc Schmidt wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Gary--this looks great! One small suggestion: could we bring the logo
>>> down in scale to ca. 75%? That would look better...
>>
>> Hi Christian, here's a shot with logo down to ~75% of previous (and some
>> minor tweaks):
>>
>>
>>  http://dev.sugarlabs.org/attachment/ticket/645/simple_static_page_v3.png
>>
>> --G
>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Gary C Martin 
>>> wrote:
>>> On 1 Apr 2009, at 05:52, Simon Schampijer wrote:
>>>
>>> Gary C Martin wrote:
>>> On 31 Mar 2009, at 22:40, Gary C Martin wrote:
>>> On 30 Mar 2009, at 14:59, Sean DALY wrote:
>>>
>>> I really like this idea, "baseline" so first-time visitors won't get
>>> lost between site sections
>>>
>>> Christian, would it be possible for you to put together that 1 page
>>> linking to the different sections + Google?
>>> FWIW: Assuming it's not being worked on yet, I just picked this ticket
>>> up. Will post a screen grab to the list tomorrow for quick review/
>>> feedback cycle.
>>> Here's a quick first pass at a simple static page, please do fire off
>>>  some feedback - FWIW, I'm not too keen on how the Google treatment  clashes
>>> with SL logo, but it is a useful feature to have on a home page:
>>>
>>> http://dev.sugarlabs.org/attachment/ticket/645/simple_static_page_v1.png
>>> Regards,
>>> --Gary
>>> --Gary
>>>
>>> Do we need the google logo for trademark reasons? Otherwise I would just
>>> leave it out. It says 'Google' on the button already.
>>>
>>> Should I just drop it all together for now? I know we are used to seeing
>>> it on the default OLPC XO home page, but it's not like we thought it
>>> necessary to put Google search on www.sugarlabes.org
>>>
>>>
>>> Would be nice to have a link to our bug tracker as well - maybe just
>>> named 'Bugs'.
>>>
>>> Sure, here it is with the extra link and dropping the Google logo (but
>>> keeping the Google search inputs):
>>>
>>>
>>> http://dev.sugarlabs.org/attachment/ticket/645/simple_static_page_v2.png
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course - ideally this page would be translated :/ We can do that for
>>> 0.86 then I guess :)
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> --Gary
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>  Simon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com
>>>
>>> http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com
>>>
>>> 917/ 575 0013
>>
>
>
>
> --
> anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com
>
> http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com
>
> 917/ 575 0013
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] How to implement TTS + highlighting

2009-04-02 Thread James Simmons

Chirag,

The phrase "widget from Read Etexts" in Ben's email gave me a thought.  
You see, there is no "Read Etexts widget".  I just use a regular 
textarea and scrolled window.  But it occurs to me that maybe you could 
make such a widget which combines the textarea and scrollable window, 
plus the text to speech and highlighting code.  You could have a method 
in the widget to activate speech and another to pause speech.  Maybe you 
could provide a method that lets the developer specify a key to start 
and pause speech.  (For instance, "KP_End" is what Read Etexts uses).   
The spoken words would be highlighted using Pango, and the scrollbars 
would be adjusted to make the spoken word visible at all times.  This 
widget could become part of the Sugar Python library.

This kills two birds with one stone.  You could use the widget in Sugar 
itself to do what you are describing.  In addition to that, Activity 
developers using Python would have a simple way of adding in place TTS 
with highlighting to their Activities.  This might have all kinds of 
interesting possibilities.  You could write "Adventure" style games 
where the game spoke to the child and had TTS with highlighting to 
encourage the child to read along with the instructions spoken.  
Multi-player games with collaboration could have a built in chat 
function that used the widget.  Players could send each other messages, 
like "Checkmate!" or "You sunk my battleship!"

I believe doing things this way would make your work more useful.  You 
would have the built in Sugar facility you're proposing to add TTS to 
Activities with no support for it, plus you provide a standard way for 
Activities to do their own TTS in place.  The widget could be made 
simple enough to use that children could use it in their own programs.

James Simmons

chirag jain wrote:
> well acheiving captioning or karaoke style coloring in the same window
> where the text is selected is something a difficult task. I have no
> idea how it can be acheived. My idea is the same as you mentioned that
> a separate window containing the selected text from the current window
> will be opened. The captioning will be acheived in that separate
> window not in the current window.
>
> I will mention it specifically in my proposal also.
> On 4/2/09, Benjamin M. Schwartz  wrote:
>   
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> James Simmons wrote:
>> 
>>> As you point out in your proposal, highlighting the word as it is spoken
>>> is a big part of the benefit of what you're proposing.  If all you
>>> wanted to do was capture some highlighted text in the clipboard and have
>>> it spoken in a voice you can configure in a control panel, that would be
>>> easy, even trivial.  It's the highlighting that's difficult.
>>>   
>> ...
>> 
>>> If I had to write a facility that did what Read Etexts does outside of
>>> the Activity I wouldn't know how to do it.  It seems to me that
>>> highlighting is best done by the Activity itself.  I can't deny that it
>>> would be useful to have all this work done as you have described without
>>> the Activity knowing anything about it, but it doesn't seem feasible.
>>> You'd have to have something that could work with gtk textareas, the
>>> evince component Read uses, Abiword, and everything else that came along.
>>>   
>> What if we forget about showing the highlighting "in place"?  Instead, the
>> TTS button can pop up a small window or palette showing the text from the
>> "clipboard" (actually the PRIMARY selection[1]).  This window would use
>> the widget from Read Etexts or Listen and Spell, to provide active
>> highlighting.  As soon as TTS completes, the window disappears.
>>
>> That gives us "karaoke" highlighting with any activity that supports
>> selection.
>> 

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[Sugar-devel] GSoC proposal: Speech Synthesis

2009-04-02 Thread chirag jain

Improved my proposal

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/speech-synthesis

Please give some reviews..
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Browse-106

2009-04-02 Thread Gary C Martin

On 2 Apr 2009, at 10:50, Martin Langhoff wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:08 AM, Gary C Martin   
> wrote:
>> Sorry to rush on this, but barring objections, I get the feeling  
>> this is
>> getting close to happening in the next 24hrs...
>>
>>  http://dev.sugarlabs.org/attachment/ticket/645/simple_static_page_v3.png
>
> Objection! :-) Please re-add the link to 'Local Schoolserver'.

OK :-)

Silly question, so I've added a link to http://schoolserver/ which  
will be a broken link unless you are in a school environment with a  
school server set to that name. Could distros (like SoaS, or XO  
targeted builds), change the resolution order through /etc/host.conf  
(maybe also /etc/nsswitch.conf) so that the check for schoolserver go  
first to a dns server? If that fails to resolve, a local host file  
entry could then try to go to the schools moodle server at 
http://schools.sugarlabs.org/

Hmmm, I guess that's going to mess with browser cookies, but just  
thought I'd raise the question.

I might look at some other old html tricks (but not for this release)  
that could avoid the broken link. Some dhtml tricks might work hiding  
the potential error page in a hidden frame and auto switching to the  
public server URL if the local URL fails.

> BTW, did you mean to CC the list? We've dropped to a private thread...

Ooops, back on list.

--G

> cheers,
>
>
> m
> -- 
> martin.langh...@gmail.com
> mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
> - ask interesting questions
> - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
> - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Browse-106

2009-04-02 Thread Sean DALY

remember the URL should be http://www.sugarlabs.org and not http://sugarlabs.org

thanks


On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Gary C Martin  wrote:
> On 2 Apr 2009, at 10:50, Martin Langhoff wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:08 AM, Gary C Martin 
>> wrote:
>>> Sorry to rush on this, but barring objections, I get the feeling
>>> this is
>>> getting close to happening in the next 24hrs...
>>>
>>>  http://dev.sugarlabs.org/attachment/ticket/645/simple_static_page_v3.png
>>
>> Objection! :-) Please re-add the link to 'Local Schoolserver'.
>
> OK :-)
>
> Silly question, so I've added a link to http://schoolserver/ which
> will be a broken link unless you are in a school environment with a
> school server set to that name. Could distros (like SoaS, or XO
> targeted builds), change the resolution order through /etc/host.conf
> (maybe also /etc/nsswitch.conf) so that the check for schoolserver go
> first to a dns server? If that fails to resolve, a local host file
> entry could then try to go to the schools moodle server at 
> http://schools.sugarlabs.org/
>
> Hmmm, I guess that's going to mess with browser cookies, but just
> thought I'd raise the question.
>
> I might look at some other old html tricks (but not for this release)
> that could avoid the broken link. Some dhtml tricks might work hiding
> the potential error page in a hidden frame and auto switching to the
> public server URL if the local URL fails.
>
>> BTW, did you mean to CC the list? We've dropped to a private thread...
>
> Ooops, back on list.
>
> --G
>
>> cheers,
>>
>>
>> m
>> --
>> martin.langh...@gmail.com
>> mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
>> - ask interesting questions
>> - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>> - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Browse-106

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Gary C Martin  wrote:
> Silly question, so I've added a link to http://schoolserver/ which will be a
> broken link unless you are in a school environment with a school server set
> to that name. Could distros (like SoaS, or XO targeted builds), change the
> resolution order through /etc/host.conf (maybe also /etc/nsswitch.conf) so

Messing with nsswitch is a bit messy. My plan is to have a svc
announcement (bonjour style) so the python code in Browse could check
whether there's an XS service on the network and do something magic --
like catch the browser opening http://schoolserver/ and change it to
the url obtained via bonjour.

It's iffy though :-/ and will probably break other stuff.

> Hmmm, I guess that's going to mess with browser cookies, but just thought
> I'd raise the question.

The schoolserver redirects to the fqdn immediately so that the right
cookies kick in. At least that's not a problem :-)

cheers,

martin
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Browse-106

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Gary C Martin  wrote:
> On 2 Apr 2009, at 10:50, Martin Langhoff wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:08 AM, Gary C Martin 
>> wrote:
>>> Sorry to rush on this, but barring objections, I get the feeling
>>> this is
>>> getting close to happening in the next 24hrs...
>>>
>>>  http://dev.sugarlabs.org/attachment/ticket/645/simple_static_page_v3.png
>>
>> Objection! :-) Please re-add the link to 'Local Schoolserver'.
>
> OK :-)
>
> Silly question, so I've added a link to http://schoolserver/ which
> will be a broken link unless you are in a school environment with a
> school server set to that name. Could distros (like SoaS, or XO
> targeted builds), change the resolution order through /etc/host.conf
> (maybe also /etc/nsswitch.conf) so that the check for schoolserver go
> first to a dns server? If that fails to resolve, a local host file
> entry could then try to go to the schools moodle server at 
> http://schools.sugarlabs.org/

We should really start referring to this as the "collaboration
server", especially if we're going to include it as a link available
in all distributions/environments. Ideally, we'd fall back to some
page which describes the benefits of having a collaboration server and
point to links for setting one up, if there isn't one available. I
have no idea how to do that.

- Eben

> Hmmm, I guess that's going to mess with browser cookies, but just
> thought I'd raise the question.
>
> I might look at some other old html tricks (but not for this release)
> that could avoid the broken link. Some dhtml tricks might work hiding
> the potential error page in a hidden frame and auto switching to the
> public server URL if the local URL fails.
>
>> BTW, did you mean to CC the list? We've dropped to a private thread...
>
> Ooops, back on list.
>
> --G
>
>> cheers,
>>
>>
>> m
>> --
>> martin.langh...@gmail.com
>> mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
>> - ask interesting questions
>> - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>> - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Browse-106

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Eben Eliason  wrote:

> We should really start referring to this as the "collaboration
> server", especially if we're going to include it as a link available
> in all distributions/environments. Ideally, we'd fall back to some
> page which describes the benefits of having a collaboration server and
> point to links for setting one up, if there isn't one available. I
> have no idea how to do that.
>

You can probably use the dnsResolve() function (commonly used in
PACfiles). Some code
we might be able to use/modify:
http://forums.devarticles.com/javascript-development-22/dns-lookup-using-javascript-74973.html

I don't know javascript, but if nobody else bothers I'll look into it.

-- 
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http://luke.faraone.cc
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Local static page, final call for edits (Re: [RELEASE] Browse-106)

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Gary C Martin  wrote:
> On 2 Apr 2009, at 17:16, Eben Eliason wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Gary C Martin 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2 Apr 2009, at 10:50, Martin Langhoff wrote:
>>>
 On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:08 AM, Gary C Martin 
 wrote:
>
> Sorry to rush on this, but barring objections, I get the feeling
> this is
> getting close to happening in the next 24hrs...
>
>
>  http://dev.sugarlabs.org/attachment/ticket/645/simple_static_page_v3.png

 Objection! :-) Please re-add the link to 'Local Schoolserver'.
>>>
>>> OK :-)
>>>
>>> Silly question, so I've added a link to http://schoolserver/ which
>>> will be a broken link unless you are in a school environment with a
>>> school server set to that name. Could distros (like SoaS, or XO
>>> targeted builds), change the resolution order through /etc/host.conf
>>> (maybe also /etc/nsswitch.conf) so that the check for schoolserver go
>>> first to a dns server? If that fails to resolve, a local host file
>>> entry could then try to go to the schools moodle server at
>>> http://schools.sugarlabs.org/
>>
>> We should really start referring to this as the "collaboration
>> server", especially if we're going to include it as a link available
>> in all distributions/environments. Ideally, we'd fall back to some
>> page which describes the benefits of having a collaboration server and
>> point to links for setting one up, if there isn't one available. I
>> have no idea how to do that.
>
> I went for "school", didn't really want the top right links turning into war
> and peace like some of our other pages have (wiki is especially bad, you
> need a wide screen to view them all!) ;-)
>
> So... Eben/Martin is it to be "school" or "collaboration"?

I'd definitely vote for "collaboration" myself, but I'll defer to
Martin. The general idea here is to prevent future confusion, since
the server needn't be tied to a school for any technological reasons.
That's certainly a prominent case, but these servers are being run in
many other contexts as well, and in the future, there may even be a
facility for selecting your collaboration server among several.

Although, thinking about this again, this wouldn't be a hard coded
value. This would be the server chosen in the network settings. So I
guess I'm confused about what this hard-coded url actually is. If it
really is something that's specific to schools with OLPC deployments,
then it shouldn't be part of the SugarLabs start page; it should be
part of the OLPC distribution only.

Eben

> And yes, colours do roll through the 12 sets (though that does eat 100Kb on
> png logos), "home" does link to www.sugarlabs.org, and the css rollover
> inverted style matches Christian's design.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> --Gary
>
>> - Eben
>>
>>> Hmmm, I guess that's going to mess with browser cookies, but just
>>> thought I'd raise the question.
>>>
>>> I might look at some other old html tricks (but not for this release)
>>> that could avoid the broken link. Some dhtml tricks might work hiding
>>> the potential error page in a hidden frame and auto switching to the
>>> public server URL if the local URL fails.
>>>
 BTW, did you mean to CC the list? We've dropped to a private thread...
>>>
>>> Ooops, back on list.
>>>
>>> --G
>>>
 cheers,


 m
 --
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
>>>
>>> ___
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>
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Local static page, final call for edits (Re: [RELEASE] Browse-106)

2009-04-02 Thread Tomeu Vizoso

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 19:22, Eben Eliason  wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Gary C Martin  wrote:
>> On 2 Apr 2009, at 17:16, Eben Eliason wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Gary C Martin 
>>> wrote:

 On 2 Apr 2009, at 10:50, Martin Langhoff wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:08 AM, Gary C Martin 
> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry to rush on this, but barring objections, I get the feeling
>> this is
>> getting close to happening in the next 24hrs...
>>
>>
>>  http://dev.sugarlabs.org/attachment/ticket/645/simple_static_page_v3.png
>
> Objection! :-) Please re-add the link to 'Local Schoolserver'.

 OK :-)

 Silly question, so I've added a link to http://schoolserver/ which
 will be a broken link unless you are in a school environment with a
 school server set to that name. Could distros (like SoaS, or XO
 targeted builds), change the resolution order through /etc/host.conf
 (maybe also /etc/nsswitch.conf) so that the check for schoolserver go
 first to a dns server? If that fails to resolve, a local host file
 entry could then try to go to the schools moodle server at
 http://schools.sugarlabs.org/
>>>
>>> We should really start referring to this as the "collaboration
>>> server", especially if we're going to include it as a link available
>>> in all distributions/environments. Ideally, we'd fall back to some
>>> page which describes the benefits of having a collaboration server and
>>> point to links for setting one up, if there isn't one available. I
>>> have no idea how to do that.
>>
>> I went for "school", didn't really want the top right links turning into war
>> and peace like some of our other pages have (wiki is especially bad, you
>> need a wide screen to view them all!) ;-)
>>
>> So... Eben/Martin is it to be "school" or "collaboration"?
>
> I'd definitely vote for "collaboration" myself, but I'll defer to
> Martin. The general idea here is to prevent future confusion, since
> the server needn't be tied to a school for any technological reasons.
> That's certainly a prominent case, but these servers are being run in
> many other contexts as well, and in the future, there may even be a
> facility for selecting your collaboration server among several.
>
> Although, thinking about this again, this wouldn't be a hard coded
> value. This would be the server chosen in the network settings. So I
> guess I'm confused about what this hard-coded url actually is. If it
> really is something that's specific to schools with OLPC deployments,
> then it shouldn't be part of the SugarLabs start page; it should be
> part of the OLPC distribution only.

My understanding is that we are going to be interested in providing
other sugar-specific services than collaboration in a server, like
backups.

Regards,

Tomeu

> Eben
>
>> And yes, colours do roll through the 12 sets (though that does eat 100Kb on
>> png logos), "home" does link to www.sugarlabs.org, and the css rollover
>> inverted style matches Christian's design.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> --Gary
>>
>>> - Eben
>>>
 Hmmm, I guess that's going to mess with browser cookies, but just
 thought I'd raise the question.

 I might look at some other old html tricks (but not for this release)
 that could avoid the broken link. Some dhtml tricks might work hiding
 the potential error page in a hidden frame and auto switching to the
 public server URL if the local URL fails.

> BTW, did you mean to CC the list? We've dropped to a private thread...

 Ooops, back on list.

 --G

> cheers,
>
>
> m
> --
> martin.langh...@gmail.com
> mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
> - ask interesting questions
> - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
> - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Local static page, final call for edits (Re: [RELEASE] Browse-106)

2009/4/2 Gary C Martin 
>
> And yes, colours do roll through the 12 sets (though that does eat 100Kb on
> png logos), "home" does link to www.sugarlabs.org, and the css rollover
> inverted style matches Christian's design.
>

Maybe I missed the discussion earlier, but what is the purpose in the
color-changing logo? Moreover, can't we use SVG (or
SVGZfor extra compression), since
those files are much smaller? All the ones
listed on the 
[[Logo]]
page are about 10kb each, and would be even smaller if they were compressed.
(and Browse supports that AFAICT)

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Local static page, final call for edits (Re: [RELEASE] Browse-106)

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:
> My understanding is that we are going to be interested in providing
> other sugar-specific services than collaboration in a server, like
> backups.

Yes - there's a lot more than collaboration on the XS. Backups,
internet access, upgrades, lots of stuff. Printing, if the GSoC
proposal is a winner. All of that makes for a very long link name ;-)

...'School' is shorter...

cheers,



m

-- 
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 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Local static page, final call for edits (Re: [RELEASE] Browse-106)

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Luke Faraone  wrote:
> color-changing logo? Moreover, can't we use SVG (or SVGZ for extra
> compression), since those files are much smaller?

Unfortunately not. Gecko doesn't do "inline" svg because it is a
complex (and scriptable!) document type. At the moment, it'll only
render it in an inline frame.

There is discussion of limited svg rendering in img tags, as opera
does, but that's for the future...

m
-- 
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 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Local static page, final call for edits (Re: [RELEASE] Browse-106)

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Martin Langhoff
 wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:
>> My understanding is that we are going to be interested in providing
>> other sugar-specific services than collaboration in a server, like
>> backups.
>
> Yes - there's a lot more than collaboration on the XS. Backups,
> internet access, upgrades, lots of stuff. Printing, if the GSoC
> proposal is a winner. All of that makes for a very long link name ;-)

Fair enough

> ...'School' is shorter...

Yes, but it's still a misnomer. Nothing about this server ties it to a
school, right? Maybe it's one we're OK with, but I want to make sure
that it actually makes sense in most contexts if we're going to use
it.

Perhaps it's more important to deal with the fallback case than to
name it perfectly, so that we can indicate what it means to those who
don't have access to one.

Eben


> cheers,
>
>
>
> m
>
> --
>  martin.langh...@gmail.com
>  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
>  - ask interesting questions
>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Local static page, final call for edits (Re: [RELEASE] Browse-106)

2009-04-02 Thread Tomeu Vizoso

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 19:53, Eben Eliason  wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Martin Langhoff
>  wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:
>>> My understanding is that we are going to be interested in providing
>>> other sugar-specific services than collaboration in a server, like
>>> backups.
>>
>> Yes - there's a lot more than collaboration on the XS. Backups,
>> internet access, upgrades, lots of stuff. Printing, if the GSoC
>> proposal is a winner. All of that makes for a very long link name ;-)
>
> Fair enough
>
>> ...'School' is shorter...
>
> Yes, but it's still a misnomer. Nothing about this server ties it to a
> school, right? Maybe it's one we're OK with, but I want to make sure
> that it actually makes sense in most contexts if we're going to use
> it.
>
> Perhaps it's more important to deal with the fallback case than to
> name it perfectly, so that we can indicate what it means to those who
> don't have access to one.

"Sugar server"? "Mothership molasses"?

Regards,

Tomeu

> Eben
>
>
>> cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> m
>>
>> --
>>  martin.langh...@gmail.com
>>  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
>>  - ask interesting questions
>>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>>  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
>>
>
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[Sugar-devel] Proposal: Document proposed distro tweaks in INSTALL file (Was: Browse-106)

2009-04-02 Thread Jonas Smedegaard

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 04:03:03PM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote:
>Silly question, so I've added a link to http://schoolserver/ which will 
>be a broken link unless you are in a school environment with a school 
>server set to that name. Could distros (like SoaS, or XO targeted 
>builds), change the resolution order through /etc/host.conf (maybe also 
>/etc/nsswitch.conf) so that the check for schoolserver go first to a 
>dns server? If that fails to resolve, a local host file entry could 
>then try to go to the schools moodle server at 
>http://schools.sugarlabs.org/


Please help distributors by documenting such config options that might 
be relevant to adjust for some distributions.

I propose to use an INSTALL file in the root of source tarballs for 
these kinds of notes.  I propose to only add such INSTALL file if there 
is special things to be aware of, not mandate it for standard blah blah 
(as the GNU project do, I believe).


Kind regards,

  - Jonas

- -- 
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Local static page, final call for edits (Re: [RELEASE] Browse-106)

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:
>> Yes, but it's still a misnomer. Nothing about this server ties it to a
...
> "Sugar server"? "Mothership molasses"?

If we call it "school" and work on that as a loose metaphor -- as we
do with "online whiteboards" and "online chat", I think it's a win.

OTOH, it'd be cool to get cards with 'Mothership Molasses Architect'
next to my name.

m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Local static page, final call for edits (Re: [RELEASE] Browse-106)

2009-04-02 Thread Sameer Verma

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Martin Langhoff
 wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:
>> My understanding is that we are going to be interested in providing
>> other sugar-specific services than collaboration in a server, like
>> backups.
>
> Yes - there's a lot more than collaboration on the XS. Backups,
> internet access, upgrades, lots of stuff. Printing, if the GSoC
> proposal is a winner. All of that makes for a very long link name ;-)
>
> ...'School' is shorter...
>

+1

Sameer
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Local static page, final call for edits (Re: [RELEASE] Browse-106)

2009-04-02 Thread Sameer Verma

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Eben Eliason  wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Martin Langhoff
>  wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:
>>> My understanding is that we are going to be interested in providing
>>> other sugar-specific services than collaboration in a server, like
>>> backups.
>>
>> Yes - there's a lot more than collaboration on the XS. Backups,
>> internet access, upgrades, lots of stuff. Printing, if the GSoC
>> proposal is a winner. All of that makes for a very long link name ;-)
>
> Fair enough
>
>> ...'School' is shorter...
>
> Yes, but it's still a misnomer. Nothing about this server ties it to a
> school, right? Maybe it's one we're OK with, but I want to make sure
> that it actually makes sense in most contexts if we're going to use
> it.
>

School, on a metaphorical level, is a place where learning happens,
where children go every day, form a group, community, play, exchange,
wrestle, eat, interact, etc. So, metaphorically, to me, school is a
central focal point. School is also probably a more commonly
understood term in many cultures than say, collaboration...I can't
think of the equivalent of collaboration in Hindi. So maybe we drop
the "server" part and simply call it school?

--
Sameer

> Perhaps it's more important to deal with the fallback case than to
> name it perfectly, so that we can indicate what it means to those who
> don't have access to one.
>
> Eben
>
>
>> cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> m
>>
>> --
>>  martin.langh...@gmail.com
>>  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
>>  - ask interesting questions
>>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>>  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
>>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Local static page, final call for edits (Re: [RELEASE] Browse-106)

2009-04-02 Thread Sayamindu Dasgupta

2009/4/2 Luke Faraone :
> 2009/4/2 Gary C Martin 
>>
>> And yes, colours do roll through the 12 sets (though that does eat 100Kb
>> on png logos), "home" does link to www.sugarlabs.org, and the css rollover
>> inverted style matches Christian's design.
>
> Maybe I missed the discussion earlier, but what is the purpose in the
> color-changing logo? Moreover, can't we use SVG (or SVGZ for extra
> compression), since those files are much smaller? All the ones listed on the
> [[Logo]] page are about 10kb each, and would be even smaller if they were
> compressed. (and Browse supports that AFAICT)
>


Won't we translate this ??
:-)

-sdg-

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[http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings]
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Local static page, final call for edits (Re: [RELEASE] Browse-106)

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Sameer Verma  wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Eben Eliason  wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Martin Langhoff
>>  wrote:
>>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:
 My understanding is that we are going to be interested in providing
 other sugar-specific services than collaboration in a server, like
 backups.
>>>
>>> Yes - there's a lot more than collaboration on the XS. Backups,
>>> internet access, upgrades, lots of stuff. Printing, if the GSoC
>>> proposal is a winner. All of that makes for a very long link name ;-)
>>
>> Fair enough
>>
>>> ...'School' is shorter...
>>
>> Yes, but it's still a misnomer. Nothing about this server ties it to a
>> school, right? Maybe it's one we're OK with, but I want to make sure
>> that it actually makes sense in most contexts if we're going to use
>> it.
>>
>
> School, on a metaphorical level, is a place where learning happens,
> where children go every day, form a group, community, play, exchange,
> wrestle, eat, interact, etc. So, metaphorically, to me, school is a
> central focal point. School is also probably a more commonly
> understood term in many cultures than say, collaboration...I can't
> think of the equivalent of collaboration in Hindi. So maybe we drop
> the "server" part and simply call it school?

Yeah, that sounds good to me.

Eben


> --
> Sameer
>
>> Perhaps it's more important to deal with the fallback case than to
>> name it perfectly, so that we can indicate what it means to those who
>> don't have access to one.
>>
>> Eben
>>
>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> m
>>>
>>> --
>>>  martin.langh...@gmail.com
>>>  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
>>>  - ask interesting questions
>>>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>>>  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
>>>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Bugs] #645 UNSP: make sugarlabs.org the default page

2009-04-02 Thread S Page

What about the expandable library section on the home page for
downloaded .xol's? It's nifty and useful (
http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/574 ). The recent discussion about
this ('content bundles and the "OLPC Library" Browse home page')
devolved into discussing a replacement for them, but .xol files exist
now. Are they not going to work in Sugar 0.8x until a "Grand
Unification" of activity and content is coded?

The code in /usr/share/library-common/make_index.py on an XO that
rebuilds the library each time you download a collection also has the
template code to make the home page. It seems to support localization
of the home page as well.

Sean DALY wrote:
> My memory of the XO G1G1 Browse page was that there was a link to
> Help, but looking at it I see that there wasn't.

Help is an activity, and as I recall in 2008 discussions on olpc-dev
people said Browse cannot launch activities without adding Mozilla
mime type handlers and/or relaxing Rainbow security. However, Help is
just an instance of Browse's WebView that opens /help/X_Introduction.html. So another thing that a
make_index.py script could do is look for the Help activity and if
found add a
Browse the (local) Help files
link to this home page.

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Library#How_it_works has notes on how
library-common works. I think someone with moderate skills[**] could
revive it and kill three birds (generate home page, add content links
as you download collections, and add a link to the Help activity's
files if present) with one stone..
http://dev.laptop.org/git/library/library-activity/tree/library-common

[**] but more than me! :-/

Cheers,
--
=S Page
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[Sugar-devel] Naming of XS host (was: Re: Local static page, final call for edits)

2009-04-02 Thread Sascha Silbe


On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 11:25:09AM -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:


School, on a metaphorical level, is a place where learning happens,
where children go every day, form a group, community, play, exchange,
wrestle, eat, interact, etc.
While it's a good idea at the metaphorical level, "school" has a 
specific and quite often not-too-positive meaning in a lot of countries. 
For that reason, I'd vote against schoolserver. I can't think of any 
better term yet, though. :-/

How about just "XS"? It's cryptic enough not to have any connotation. ;)

CU Sascha

--
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http://www.infra-silbe.de/


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[Sugar-devel] GSoC proposal: version support for data store and Journal

2009-04-02 Thread Sascha Silbe


Hi!

As my diploma thesis got delayed again, I decided to apply for GSoC and 
implement #1 on my list of most urgent missing features in Sugar: 
Version support (sorry Michael, but Rainbow only got second place on 
that list).


The proposal is up on [1]. Feedback welcome (as always), both on the 
proposal and on the final (i.e. non-GSoC) UI design. While the GSoC 
project is only about a prototype with a limited UI, it doesn't hurt to 
start thinking about what it should become later. This is actually the 
hardest part for me: While I have strong opinions about how it shouldn't 
work and some ideas how it should, I actually don't know what design a 
regular user would understand best (or at all).



Copy of "2.1 Description":

Don't overwrite existing entries in the Journal with the same name 
(which currently means loosing the old content forever and happens 
automatically), but rather add a new version to the entry. Enhance the 
UI to allow easy (and simple to understand) access to "old" versions, 
including modification (which means automatically saving in a new 
branch). As "easy and simple to understand" isn't actually easy to 
implement, I'll concentrate on enhancing the current Journal view by 
adding previous/next buttons to the details view of each entry for the 
primary part of the project. Adding a version tree details view and 
possibly other ways of presenting versions are planned for the optional 
(based on remaining time) "bonus part". Metadata is going to be part of 
each version (and mutable without creating a new version) at first.



PS: Special thanks to Ben and Homunq (?). You provided great feedback 
(especially on issues where we disagree), I'm looking forward to 
pestering...I mean, discussing future more-or-less high-level design 
decisions with you. :)


[1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Version_support_for_datastore

CU Sascha

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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC proposal: version support for data store and Journal

2009/4/2 Sascha Silbe :
> Hi!
>
> As my diploma thesis got delayed again, I decided to apply for GSoC and
> implement #1 on my list of most urgent missing features in Sugar: Version
> support (sorry Michael, but Rainbow only got second place on that list).

Hooray! I agree this is a much needed feature.

> The proposal is up on [1]. Feedback welcome (as always), both on the
> proposal and on the final (i.e. non-GSoC) UI design. While the GSoC project
> is only about a prototype with a limited UI, it doesn't hurt to start
> thinking about what it should become later. This is actually the hardest
> part for me: While I have strong opinions about how it shouldn't work and
> some ideas how it should, I actually don't know what design a regular user
> would understand best (or at all).
>
>
> Copy of "2.1 Description":
>
> Don't overwrite existing entries in the Journal with the same name (which
> currently means loosing the old content forever and happens automatically),

Yup.

> but rather add a new version to the entry. Enhance the UI to allow easy (and
> simple to understand) access to "old" versions, including modification
> (which means automatically saving in a new branch). As "easy and simple to

In all of our preliminary designs, we actually proposed that branches
be flattened from the perspective of the user. That is, the most
recent head of any branch in a tree is the "canonical version" which
appears as the most recent entry in the Journal. I certainly welcome
more thought in the area, but I think that this simplification is
probably the right one, for kids, and with respect to the time-based
nature of the Journal.

> understand" isn't actually easy to implement, I'll concentrate on enhancing
> the current Journal view by adding previous/next buttons to the details view

If you look at the designs on the wiki, you'll actually note that the
date in the detail view is a popup.
(http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Designs/Journal#12) Our plan
here was to allow selecting a version by choosing the date/time at
which is was created from this popup menu. Additionally, each version
would appear in the list/timeline view of the Journal, so that you
could just as easily scroll "back in time" to several days ago when
you made the first version of a document, and resume that directly
from there.

> of each entry for the primary part of the project. Adding a version tree
> details view and possibly other ways of presenting versions are planned for

I'd probably recommend against this, both because I think there's far
more work to be done to get this working smoothly than you might
think, and because I don't think it's actually an important feature
for kids.

> the optional (based on remaining time) "bonus part". Metadata is going to be
> part of each version (and mutable without creating a new version) at first.

This is probably the right decision. I think we need to consider
carefully what metadata gets carried over to new versions, or copies,
of a given object.

Eben

> PS: Special thanks to Ben and Homunq (?). You provided great feedback
> (especially on issues where we disagree), I'm looking forward to
> pestering...I mean, discussing future more-or-less high-level design
> decisions with you. :)
>
> [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Version_support_for_datastore
>
> CU Sascha
>
> --
> http://sascha.silbe.org/
> http://www.infra-silbe.de/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Proposal: Document proposed distro tweaks in INSTALL file (Was: Browse-106)

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:

>
> Please help distributors by documenting such config options that might
> be relevant to adjust for some distributions.
>
> I propose to use an INSTALL file in the root of source tarballs for
> these kinds of notes.  I propose to only add such INSTALL file if there
> is special things to be aware of, not mandate it for standard blah blah
> (as the GNU project do, I believe).
>

+1. This would be of great utility for downstream, and is in general just a
good idea.


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Naming of XS host (was: Re: Local static page, final call for edits)

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Sascha Silbe <
sascha-ml-ui-sugar-de...@silbe.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 11:25:09AM -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
>
>  School, on a metaphorical level, is a place where learning happens,
>> where children go every day, form a group, community, play, exchange,
>> wrestle, eat, interact, etc.
>>
> While it's a good idea at the metaphorical level, "school" has a specific
> and quite often not-too-positive meaning in a lot of countries. For that
> reason, I'd vote against schoolserver. I can't think of any better term yet,
> though. :-/
> How about just "XS"? It's cryptic enough not to have any connotation. ;)
>

But it's also unfortunately meaningless to most people. People are better
able to remember things when they have a meaning attached to them that makes
sense in everyday life. I'm not saying "schoolserver" is the right word, I
just think that adding to the alphabet soup isn't going to help us. Plus,
look at what google says  :)

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Naming of XS host (was: Re: Local static page, final call for edits)

2009-04-02 Thread Caroline Meeks

Schoolserver is a bit long.  But it does seem descriptive to me. Am I
missing something about the metaphorical level discussion? Its the server
that lives at the school right?

I had thought in the US that schools would host their school servers
externally, but after being in a couple schools and trying to download from
the web I'm not so sure.  The connection speed does seem like its an issue,
I'm imaging this will be  especially if you have  an entire class of kids
trying to watch the same movie at the same time.  My current thinking is
that a school server that includes good local caching inside the building
will be a powerful part of the entire Sugar experience even in the US.

To brainstorm a bit.

How about "Neighborhood Server" as its what powers your neighborhood view?
Although personally I find it impossible to spell neighborhood.

How about "Local Server", "MySchool",

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 5:54 PM, Luke Faraone  wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Sascha Silbe <
> sascha-ml-ui-sugar-de...@silbe.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 11:25:09AM -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
>>
>>  School, on a metaphorical level, is a place where learning happens,
>>> where children go every day, form a group, community, play, exchange,
>>> wrestle, eat, interact, etc.
>>>
>> While it's a good idea at the metaphorical level, "school" has a specific
>> and quite often not-too-positive meaning in a lot of countries. For that
>> reason, I'd vote against schoolserver. I can't think of any better term yet,
>> though. :-/
>> How about just "XS"? It's cryptic enough not to have any connotation. ;)
>>
>
> But it's also unfortunately meaningless to most people. People are better
> able to remember things when they have a meaning attached to them that makes
> sense in everyday life. I'm not saying "schoolserver" is the right word, I
> just think that adding to the alphabet soup isn't going to help us. Plus,
> look at what google says  :)
>
> --
> Luke Faraone
> http://luke.faraone.cc
>
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>
>

-- 
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[Sugar-devel] GSoC Proposal: Multimedia Broadcasting

2009-04-02 Thread Geza Kovacs

Hi all,

I am proposing a Multimedia Broadcasting activity for GSoC 2009, and
would appreciate any feedback or potential mentors. The idea is
described at:

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Multimedia-broadcasting

This proposal is somewhat a variation on the standard audio-video
chatting concept; rather than having students audio-video chat
one-on-one, which would be redundant in a classroom where the person is
physically nearby, I believe broadcasting audio and video streams
displaying presentations or live experiments locally to the masses via
streaming on their laptops, thereby replacing the need to use
projectors, would be a good usage of the available video and audio
capture sources, in a classroom setting. For full details please read
the proposal.

Regards,
Geza

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Approaching a Release...

2009-04-02 Thread S Page

> Please make sure to report all bugs you come along, so that
> they can be fixed in time until April 5th.

I noted 2 1/2 Browse problems with this "April Fool's" :-)  Live USB on an XO in

, I apologize that I probably won't have time to file bugs.

>From that:

Browse failed to start. The first time the globe icon pulsed, I looked
away, and after about 30 seconds the Journal displayed and there was
no Browse in the frame or Alt+Tab. The second time the world icon
pulsed, I saw the Browse window appear with "File not found", and then
the Journal displayed. Both times I saw nothing relevant in
~/.sugar/default/logs or /var/log/messages. The WebAactivity log
showed "Received SaveYourself", "Received SaveComplete". I had no
network connectivity.

The default home page for Browse is
/usr/share/library-common/index.html which does not exist (see bug 574
and 645). I created a dummy page here and Browse started fine!

I tried browsing file:///home/liveuser and Browse hung, putting up a
busy cursor.  [I think erikos was looking into this.]

I restarted Browse from Terminal using `sugar-launch
org.laptopWebActivity` and tried browsing http://sugarlabs.org , again
with no internet connectivity. That locked Browse, and it eventually
died with "Illegal instruction". Since Browse starts at
http://sugarlabs.org if /usr/share/library-common/index.html does not
exist, this is probably the same lockup as the first.

HTH,
--
=S Page
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Approaching a Release...

2009-04-02 Thread Caroline Meeks

Hi Sebastian,

Do you expect another SoaS1 soon?

How are you testing collaboration?

Thanks,
Caroline

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Sebastian Dziallas wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> we've a new soas-2 snapshot available for you! This is the recommended
> version for today's testing session. You can grab it here:
>
> http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/2/Soas2-200904011025.iso
>
> There's also a virtual appliance available here:
>
> http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/appliances/soas2-20090401.tar.gz
>
> Though, we'd like to request to test the .iso image as much as possible,
> as we're quickly approaching our release, which is in fact scheduled for
> April 10th. Please make sure to report all bugs you come along, so that
> they can be fixed in time until April 5th.
>
> What's new in this snapshot?
>
> * It's now based on the Rawhide state F11 Beta was composed from
> * It includes now the latest Sugar bits (thanks erikos)
>
> There are also several other improvements and bug fixes, such as you
> should now be able to remove the honey activities as a user.
>
> Again, please give this image a try and join us for the testing session!
>
> Thanks and have fun,
>--Your SoaS Team
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>



-- 
Caroline Meeks
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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC Proposal: Multimedia Broadcasting

2009-04-02 Thread Nirav Patel

Geza,

Interesting proposal, and certainly a useful Activity to have.  Keep
in mind though, that Sugar Labs is focusing on development tools and
core features more than Activities for this summer.  You may also want
to take a look at Video Chat [1] for an example of an Activity that
had similar goals.

Nirav

[1] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Video_Chat

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Geza Kovacs  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am proposing a Multimedia Broadcasting activity for GSoC 2009, and
> would appreciate any feedback or potential mentors. The idea is
> described at:
>
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Multimedia-broadcasting
>
> This proposal is somewhat a variation on the standard audio-video
> chatting concept; rather than having students audio-video chat
> one-on-one, which would be redundant in a classroom where the person is
> physically nearby, I believe broadcasting audio and video streams
> displaying presentations or live experiments locally to the masses via
> streaming on their laptops, thereby replacing the need to use
> projectors, would be a good usage of the available video and audio
> capture sources, in a classroom setting. For full details please read
> the proposal.
>
> Regards,
> Geza
>
> ___
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> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Naming of XS host (was: Re: Local static page, final call for edits)

2009-04-02 Thread Jonas Smedegaard

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:08:09PM -0400, Caroline Meeks wrote:
>Schoolserver is a bit long.  But it does seem descriptive to me. Am I 
>missing something about the metaphorical level discussion? Its the 
>server that lives at the school right?

>How about "Neighborhood Server" as its what powers your neighborhood 
>view?

I like calling it just "school". I believe "school" is metaphorically 
exactly what you describe as "neighborhood", Caroline: The nearby 
location where learning experiences most often takes place.

To elaborate a bit: At first I thought "no, a school is an institution" 
but that's my narrow use of the word which is broken, not the word 
itself, I believe.  As a kid I did not think of school as an 
institution, that came later. Back then it was an integral part of my 
life - the place I went to for education.

Just as activities technically are "applications" or "programs" but not 
promoted as such, the "school" makes sense to not advertise as a 
"server": From a user perspective it is really irrelevant if it is one 
server or a cloud of services or an integral part of the internet.

Kind regards,

  - Jonas

- -- 
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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dwYAn1/wq2wWfrMvR6Heg6Hh9rS22wIu
=ZxCC
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[Sugar-devel] sugar-jhbuild--unaccountably working

2009-04-02 Thread Edward Cherlin

I have not made any changes to my sugar-jhbuild for several days.
However, I installed the Ubuntu Sugar packages in order to have
_something_ to use. Now sugar-jhbuild mostly works. In particular, I
am delighted with the new TurtleArt. I can put further bug reports
into Trac, and not bother this list with them.

-- 
Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
And Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
http://earthtreasury.net/ (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
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[Sugar-devel] Fwd: Proposal of Google Summer of Code

2009-04-02 Thread Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício

Hello everybody,

I put my GSoC Proposal here:
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2009/Oficina

If somebody has a feedback send me an e-mail (personally or in this list) or
put in the discussion page in wiki.

Thanks a lot...

Regards

Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício
http://febracev.wordpress.com/

Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade social e com o MEIO
AMBIENTE.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC Proposal: Multimedia Broadcasting

2009-04-02 Thread Jameson Quinn

It sounds as if your proposal is not so much an activity as the ability to
screencast whatever you're doing on the XO, p2p. And it would be even better
if the "watchers" had the ability to participate. Chris Ball has already made
a prototype of something like
this.
It would be an excellent GSoC project to take this prototype and get it
closer to where it could be a part of sugar for all activities. Just how
close you think you can get it, is something you'd have to research -
perhaps with the help of IRC.

If you can come up with the beginnings of a workable proposal for this, and
get it submitted before the deadline, you definitely deserve to be on our
GSoC team! Get busy...

Jameson

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Geza Kovacs  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am proposing a Multimedia Broadcasting activity for GSoC 2009, and
> would appreciate any feedback or potential mentors. The idea is
> described at:
>
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Multimedia-broadcasting
>
> This proposal is somewhat a variation on the standard audio-video
> chatting concept; rather than having students audio-video chat
> one-on-one, which would be redundant in a classroom where the person is
> physically nearby, I believe broadcasting audio and video streams
> displaying presentations or live experiments locally to the masses via
> streaming on their laptops, thereby replacing the need to use
> projectors, would be a good usage of the available video and audio
> capture sources, in a classroom setting. For full details please read
> the proposal.
>
> Regards,
> Geza
>
> ___
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> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC Proposal: Multimedia Broadcasting

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 8:44 PM, Jameson Quinn  wrote:
> It sounds as if your proposal is not so much an activity as the ability to
> screencast whatever you're doing on the XO, p2p. And it would be even better
> if the "watchers" had the ability to participate. Chris Ball has already

I've put some time into thinking about this idea from an interaction
perspective. It's a really exciting concept, and I'd be happy to
provide design help if needed!

They way I've envisioned it working is to add a "watch" option to
every shared activity (in addition to the usual "join" option), which
would allow precisely that...observing someone elses activity (just
that activity...not full screen sharing, which we might support by
adding a "watch" action to XO icons themselves, as well). I envisioned
making a composite icon for a "watch" session which wrapped the
activity icon in an icon representing the screen, and logging that
session in the Journal like any other activity. Finally, I envision
the watcher to have the ability to grab screenshots (or perhaps video
segments?) of the presentation, such that the resulting Journal entry
serves as a record of what they watched.

Eben

> made a prototype of something like this. It would be an excellent GSoC
> project to take this prototype and get it closer to where it could be a part
> of sugar for all activities. Just how close you think you can get it, is
> something you'd have to research - perhaps with the help of IRC.
>
> If you can come up with the beginnings of a workable proposal for this, and
> get it submitted before the deadline, you definitely deserve to be on our
> GSoC team! Get busy...
>
> Jameson
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Geza Kovacs  wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am proposing a Multimedia Broadcasting activity for GSoC 2009, and
>> would appreciate any feedback or potential mentors. The idea is
>> described at:
>>
>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Multimedia-broadcasting
>>
>> This proposal is somewhat a variation on the standard audio-video
>> chatting concept; rather than having students audio-video chat
>> one-on-one, which would be redundant in a classroom where the person is
>> physically nearby, I believe broadcasting audio and video streams
>> displaying presentations or live experiments locally to the masses via
>> streaming on their laptops, thereby replacing the need to use
>> projectors, would be a good usage of the available video and audio
>> capture sources, in a classroom setting. For full details please read
>> the proposal.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Geza
>>
>> ___
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>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Proposal of Google Summer of Code

I had this idea when I was making the very first mockups of Paint, and
I think it's a great idea! Check out the mockup: it's the brush with
the little gear next to it, which I always referred to as the
"behavior brush".
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Activity_paint_tools.jpg

The secondary palette for the brush would offer a list of different
behaviors (which should be object which can be copied, shared,
installed, etc., ideally). More importantly, the behaviors would be
defined by simple scripts which took some basic pre-defined parameters
(or maybe even allowed the creator of the behavior to define new
parameters, linked to sliders or checkboxes or what have you...not
sure), offered some predefined ways to size the brush, set colors,
draw shapes, and make brush strokes, and thus allowed creation of
behaviors with some simple syntax.

As an example, you could have a "mirror" behavior which read in the
current coordinates, and then made two marks with the brush mirrored
across the middle of the canvas. A custom parameter could define which
axis (or axes) were mirrored. You could have brushes which added
randomness to the position making squiggly lines; or a brush which set
the color based on the time to draw rainbow strokes; or a brush that
worked like an airbrush of star shapes. The possibilities are endless,
I think.

Anyway, as Ben said, focus isn't on activities; but I wanted to chime
in since I think this is truly a fantastic idea and I'd love to see it
happen.

Eben

PS. I also had plans to allow behavior shapes, as well:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Activity_paint_shapes_polygon.jpg

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício
 wrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
> I put my GSoC Proposal here:
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2009/Oficina
>
> If somebody has a feedback send me an e-mail (personally or in this list) or
> put in the discussion page in wiki.
>
> Thanks a lot...
>
> Regards
>
> Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício
> http://febracev.wordpress.com/
>
> Antes de imprimir, pense em sua responsabilidade social e com o MEIO
> AMBIENTE.
>
>
> ___
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> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC Proposal: Multimedia Broadcasting

2009-04-02 Thread Geza Kovacs

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Eben Eliason  wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 8:44 PM, Jameson Quinn  wrote:
>> It sounds as if your proposal is not so much an activity as the ability to
>> screencast whatever you're doing on the XO, p2p. And it would be even better
>> if the "watchers" had the ability to participate. Chris Ball has already
>
> I've put some time into thinking about this idea from an interaction
> perspective. It's a really exciting concept, and I'd be happy to
> provide design help if needed!
>

Thanks for the responses. While I did consider the usefulness of
VNC-type remote desktop control interaction, which "Multi-point remote
desktop" seems to be, considering the fact that for most activities
like Write or Paint, the ability to instantly share and update data
already accomplishes much of the "collaboration" aspect, I don't see
how this would be any more useful in a practical context than just
straight-out Google Docs-type collaboration. Additionally, this
wouldn't be a very general solution for collaboration in activities,
since the behavior and response to multiple pointers, and the
associated conflicts when two users are attempting to accomplish
conflicting goals for each activity would differ enough that this
"share" functionality would likely have to be re-implemented for each
activity.

I perhaps didn't quite clarify enough that I intend for this to be
used primarily in "presenter-directed" activities oriented towards
demonstrations to be viewed by the entire class, rather than
one-on-one student-to-student interaction as these other tools seem to
focus on. Thus examples of such situations would be where a teacher is
displaying a live lab experiment (in the context of broadcasting the
external webcam and audio input) or displaying how to use a particular
activity to the class (in the context of broadcasting the X11 output).
In this context, given that the students are more passive learners
that raise questions than active participants, I believe that the best
form of interaction, if any, would be annotation; as in the student
circles a term in an equation that they don't understand, or point out
something in the video they want the teacher to clarify; that way the
teacher can receive the input without disrupting the presentation.

To summarize, this is essentially more of an attempt to replicate what
projectors, presentations, and laser pointers are used for today
(broadcasting info to the students and soliciting their feedback),
rather than an activity-specific rich-immersion one-on-one student
collaboration attempt. The advantage is merely convenience; if the
student is receiving the stream from the teacher, he can view it from
the convenience of his laptop, or he can for example pause, rewind, or
record the stream if it's being cached, which he would be unable to do
if the teacher is merely displaying information on a projector. Thus I
don't really believe that any of these existing tools are quite
adapted to this niche; both video chat and activity sharing are too
specialized towards one-on-one interaction.

If this idea isn't really considered interesting, I could of course
revise my proposal to introduce more rich and direct forms of
interaction. I merely believe that this more conservative approach
would be more appealing to teachers who have grown up teaching with
projector-based presentations all their life, and would be more
immediately useful and require less maintenance by introducing no
activity-specific code.

> They way I've envisioned it working is to add a "watch" option to
> every shared activity (in addition to the usual "join" option), which
> would allow precisely that...observing someone elses activity (just
> that activity...not full screen sharing, which we might support by
> adding a "watch" action to XO icons themselves, as well). I envisioned
> making a composite icon for a "watch" session which wrapped the
> activity icon in an icon representing the screen, and logging that
> session in the Journal like any other activity. Finally, I envision
> the watcher to have the ability to grab screenshots (or perhaps video
> segments?) of the presentation, such that the resulting Journal entry
> serves as a record of what they watched.
>
> Eben
>
>> made a prototype of something like this. It would be an excellent GSoC
>> project to take this prototype and get it closer to where it could be a part
>> of sugar for all activities. Just how close you think you can get it, is
>> something you'd have to research - perhaps with the help of IRC.
>>
>> If you can come up with the beginnings of a workable proposal for this, and
>> get it submitted before the deadline, you definitely deserve to be on our
>> GSoC team! Get busy...
>>
>> Jameson
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Geza Kovacs  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am proposing a Multimedia Broadcasting activity for GSoC 2009, and
>>> would appreciate any feedback or potential mentors. The idea is
>>> described

Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC Proposal: Multimedia Broadcasting