[Sugar-devel] [ASLO] Release FoodForce2-1

[Sugar Labs Activities]

Activity Homepage:
http://activities.sugarlabs.org/addon/4206

Sugar Platform:
from 0.82 to 0.86

Download Now:
http://activities.sugarlabs.org/downloads/version/29214

Release notes:
FoodForce2 : FoodForce2 has been developed as a complete learning platform 
which teaches children through games with interactive stories. It helps them 
collaborate and learn by developing a village.

Reviewer comments:
This request has been approved.
Please look at http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1182 ticket
(and request for FoodForce trac component is a good idea as well 
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activity_Team/Getting_Involved#Share_your_activity)

Sugar Labs Activities
http://activities.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Screen Displays (text)

[Art Hunkins]

+1

Art Hunkins

- Original Message - 
From: "Raul Gutierrez Segales" 
To: "Walter Bender" 
Cc: "Art Hunkins" ; 
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Screen Displays (text)


> On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 17:28 -0400, Walter Bender wrote:
>> I determine whether or not I am on an XO with:
>>
>> if os.path.exists('/sys/power/olpc-pm'): # then assume you are on an 
>> XO
>>
>
> Shouldn't we encapsulate this method (is_xo?()) somewhere? I've seen it
> spread in a couple of places so far..
>
>
>
> 

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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Raul Gutierrez Segales]

On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 15:31 +0530, Manusheel Gupta wrote:
> Gabriel, please ask the teacher to download the latest SocialCalc
> activity package from here . 

Could we move/copy this to a.sl.o? Makes life easier for deployment
teams to then grab activities and make them available at local
servers.. 

Thanks!

P.S.: i am assuming it's not available (yet) at a.sl.o because of the
link you provided.. i couldn't check myself since a.sl.o is down at the
moment. 


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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)

[Raul Gutierrez Segales]

On Thu, 2009-08-13 at 15:06 -0400, Walter Bender wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:17 PM, David Van Assche wrote:
> [snip]
> > Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not seeing
> > it?
> 
> We all seem to agree that feedback is important.
> 
> We mostly agree that there is value in feedback from all deployments,
> big and small.
> 
> We are currently getting valuable feedback from the field: Sur, the
> Ceibal blogs, reports from Nepal, Greg's reports from GPA, et al.
> 
> We need more feedback and therefore we are exploring additional means
> of getting it. You ideas are welcome!
> 

Perhaps a section in Sugar Digest with links to highlights of what went
on in deployments during the week?

Wearing a deployer-hat I must confess that we could (Paraguayan
Deployment Team) do a better job filing tickets, giving feedback, etc. 

Will try to keep discipline from now on :-)


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Karma: bundle layout improve

[Felipe López Toledo]

> Hmm, your proposal could work. Before I air my concerns, I don't think
> we should use the word "lesson" to refer to the tutorial part of a Karma
> lesson. Calling the union of lesson + exercise+game+lesson plan also a
> "lesson" is confusing. I prefer we call the 1st part of a karma lesson a
> "tutorial" or "reading". I think that will make things less confusing
> than using "lesson" twice in slightly different contexts.
+1 for "reading"


> There will likely be a lot of common assets between the tutorial, game,
> and exercise. Splitting them up entirely could create a lot of
> duplication as the same images and sounds are present in both. However,
> it also could make life easier for the programmer, who wouldn't have to
> prefix each image w/  "exercise" or "tutorial".
yes, I'm aware, but at the end it's an advantage to separate the content:

with the current design and common assets, if the coder is writing the
"game" an try to get an image from "exercise" will need to  access
"assets / {lag-code | generic} / images/ exercise/ {imageFile}",
now... let's think, what if I want to take the "game" and merge it
with other lesson:
I will need to look inside the code and look for the common assets (in
order to copy them and move them).
and what if the {imageFile} already exists inside the common destiny
(exercise) folder?
need to rename some image and fix some code :S

I think keeping things in different folders will bring clearness of
what are we coding and where are the files stored. So, we will be able
to copy and just paste the whole file and everything will be working.

> I think we should change the current layout to reflect some of your
> points http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Karma/Bundle_layout#Lesson
> but I am wary or separating the tutorial, exercise, and game so sharply
renamed "lesson" to "reading"

greetings

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Bryan Berry wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 11:18 +0545, Christoph Derndorfer wrote:
>> 2009/8/14 Felipe López Toledo 
>>         Hello there
>>
>>         I know we already talked about the Bundle_layout[ 1 ]
>>         but, I suggest to reorganize Lesson structure  using this:
>>
>>         lesson_name/
>>          index.html   # lesson content
>>          lesson/        # lesson folder
>>          game/         # game folder
>>          exercise/      #exercise folder
>>          
>>
>>         lesson, game and exercise folder will contain
>>         index.html   # the lesson, game or whatever
>>         css/
>>         js/
>>         assets/
>>           generic/
>>              images/
>>              audio/
>>              video/
>>             ...
>>           {lang-Code}/
>>              images/
>>              audio/
>>              video/
>>           
>
> Hmm, your proposal could work. Before I air my concerns, I don't think
> we should use the word "lesson" to refer to the tutorial part of a Karma
> lesson. Calling the union of lesson + exercise+game+lesson plan also a
> "lesson" is confusing. I prefer we call the 1st part of a karma lesson a
> "tutorial" or "reading". I think that will make things less confusing
> than using "lesson" twice in slightly different contexts.
>
> Subzero, the benefit of your approach is that it makes it easier to
> reuse games and exercises in new lessons. This makes sense when an
> adding game can relatively easily be transformed into a subtraction
> game. At the same time, the related tutorial and exercise could easily
> be remade for subtraction.
>
> There will likely be a lot of common assets between the tutorial, game,
> and exercise. Splitting them up entirely could create a lot of
> duplication as the same images and sounds are present in both. However,
> it also could make life easier for the programmer, who wouldn't have to
> prefix each image w/  "exercise" or "tutorial".
>
> I think we should change the current layout to reflect some of your
> points http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Karma/Bundle_layout#Lesson
> but I am wary or separating the tutorial, exercise, and game so sharply
>
> but let me think about this more ;)
>
>
> --
> Bryan W. Berry
> Technology Director
> OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org
>
>



-- 
Felipe López Toledo
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar frozen when trying to register.. bug in idmgr?

[Raul Gutierrez Segales]

On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 10:23 +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 19:22, Raul Gutierrez Segales 
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Has anybody experienced Sugar (0.82) freezing when trying to register
> > against the server? I was unable to register (although connectivity
> > seemed fine) and when sniffing the network I saw:
> >
> > 172.18.0.1.8080 > 172.18.96.196.47780: S
> > 172.18.0.1.8080 > 172.18.96.196.47780: S
> > 172.18.0.1.8080 > 172.18.96.196.47780: S
> > 172.18.0.1.8080 > 172.18.96.196.47780: S
> >
> > I thought idmgr might be hanged.. So I did:
> >
> > service idmgr restart
> >
> > and everything started working again.. Anyone bumped into something
> > similar recently?
> 
> Never saw that, but this should be async so the UI doesn't freezes.
> Could you please enter a ticket about it in http://dev.sugarlabs.org?
> 

http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1181


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Screen Displays (text)

[Raul Gutierrez Segales]

On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 17:28 -0400, Walter Bender wrote:
> I determine whether or not I am on an XO with:
> 
> if os.path.exists('/sys/power/olpc-pm'): # then assume you are on an XO
> 

Shouldn't we encapsulate this method (is_xo?()) somewhere? I've seen it
spread in a couple of places so far.. 




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[Sugar-devel] New sugar meeting channel in Spanish

[Pilar Saenz]

Hi,

Thinking about how to involve more Spanish speakers into IRC meetings,
it's available a transbot between #sugar-meeting and the new
#sugar-reunion channels.
Spanish users can join #sugar-reunion and all sentences will be
translated to english into #sugar-meeting channel and vice versa.

Documentation in spanish
http://co.sugarlabs.org/go/Transbot

-- 
María del Pilar Sáenz
Fundación Sugar Labs Colombia
http://co.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Screen Displays (text)

[Walter Bender]

I use

  gtk.gdk.screen_width()
  gtk.gdk.screen_height()

to determine the absolute screen size in pixels.

I have never been able to get a consistent pixels per inch reading, however.

I assume a scale factor for non-XO for my text of 1.6 relative to text
on an XO display, which seems to give generally consistent results.

I determine whether or not I am on an XO with:

if os.path.exists('/sys/power/olpc-pm'): # then assume you are on an XO

-walter

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Art Hunkins wrote:
> As this list knows, I've been struggling with font sizes and screen
> displays - to get my text-based activity looking right on various
> size/format displays. By "looking right", I mean: a single fixed screen
> (there is no scrolling; all text is always visible) that fills up fairly
> fully, but does not overflow vertically or horizontally. (Literally no
> graphics except buttons, frames and spins.)
>
> I'm using 3(or 4?) basic displays, and all require me to format differently.
> (And in a drastic way.) These are: the XO-1 (native, as well as using SoaS);
> a 17" 4:3 ratio LCD monitor; and the (approx. 16:9) display on an ASUS
> EEEPC90 netbook. I gather that Sugar (via PyGTK) does not do any
> auto-adjusting, at least text-wise, to different screen formats. You can't
> even use a native XO-1 activity copied to SoaS and played back on the XO-1.
>
> As I've mentioned before, the native XO-1 project only fills the upper
> left-hand corner of my LCD monitor. A second version for the LCD monitor
> overflowed (both vertically and horizontally) both a wide-screen Toshiba
> laptop and the ASUS. A third, ASUS version looks fair (if too small) on the
> LCD monitor, and is *way* too small for the XO-1.
>
> I have wonderful, easy ways now to adjust font size, both for the entire
> activity and locally. It's just that for now it seems a different project
> version is needed by each type of display, as well as for XO-1 (native)
> vis-a-vis Sugar on a Stick.
>
> Has anyone squarely faced and solved this issue?
>
> I suppose it would help if "auto-scrollbars" appeared (both horizontal and
> vertical). However, I really do need everything on a single screen and
> always visible. What I'm looking for is some reasonable auto-adjust to
> monitor format/type.
>
> Art Hunkins
>
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-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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[Sugar-devel] Screen Displays (text)

[Art Hunkins]

As this list knows, I've been struggling with font sizes and screen 
displays - to get my text-based activity looking right on various 
size/format displays. By "looking right", I mean: a single fixed screen 
(there is no scrolling; all text is always visible) that fills up fairly 
fully, but does not overflow vertically or horizontally. (Literally no 
graphics except buttons, frames and spins.)

I'm using 3(or 4?) basic displays, and all require me to format differently. 
(And in a drastic way.) These are: the XO-1 (native, as well as using SoaS); 
a 17" 4:3 ratio LCD monitor; and the (approx. 16:9) display on an ASUS 
EEEPC90 netbook. I gather that Sugar (via PyGTK) does not do any 
auto-adjusting, at least text-wise, to different screen formats. You can't 
even use a native XO-1 activity copied to SoaS and played back on the XO-1.

As I've mentioned before, the native XO-1 project only fills the upper 
left-hand corner of my LCD monitor. A second version for the LCD monitor 
overflowed (both vertically and horizontally) both a wide-screen Toshiba 
laptop and the ASUS. A third, ASUS version looks fair (if too small) on the 
LCD monitor, and is *way* too small for the XO-1.

I have wonderful, easy ways now to adjust font size, both for the entire 
activity and locally. It's just that for now it seems a different project 
version is needed by each type of display, as well as for XO-1 (native) 
vis-a-vis Sugar on a Stick.

Has anyone squarely faced and solved this issue?

I suppose it would help if "auto-scrollbars" appeared (both horizontal and 
vertical). However, I really do need everything on a single screen and 
always visible. What I'm looking for is some reasonable auto-adjust to 
monitor format/type.

Art Hunkins 

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[Sugar-devel] python webkit DOM bindings - help needed

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

hi folks,

as you probably know i completed an initial version of webkit python
DOM bindings back in november 2008, and have been maintaining them
ever since.  i began the process of getting them accepted into the
main webkit svn repository and, to say that i kinda messed that up
would be an understatement of the first order.  so - if you've been
counting on pywebkitgtk and webkit getting python DOM bindings
"officially" fairly soon, i'm really sorry, but it's not happening.

the only way it's going to happen is if i'm not communicating directly
with the webkit gtk maintainers, whose behaviour has been a weird
mixture of technically first grade help alongside shockingly
disrespectful attitudes which i will not describe, here.

what that means is that if you are in any way counting on using
pywebkitgtk to any degree of sophistication in OLPC projects (i.e.
more than "just a browser", such as being able to respond to DOM
events etc.), you should consider helping out with the "submission"
process of the patches that make up the webkit gobject bindings.

perhaps i am assuming a level of interest that does not actually
exist, for which i apologise in taking up your time.

but, given that there is the distinct possibility, as described by
brendan from the mozilla foundation a couple of weeks ago, that as
XULrunner focusses its priority on performance over-and-above all
other considerations and responsibilities, python-xpcom will just 
drop off the map, entirely (thus making hulahop entirely useless, and
taking the OLPC browser with it), i thought that pywebkitgtk with DOM
bindings would be a good replacement to take over from it.

so - if this _is_ something that is of interest to the OLPC project,
in the absence of any other initiatives (which i would be delighted to
see), i've started a write-up for people wishing to begin
contributing, here:

http://wiki.github.com/lkcl/webkit/helping-with-16401master

once again i apologise for letting you down, by driving the webkit
developers absolutely insane and beyond their ability to cope with
this initiative, and also if i have misjudged the strategic importance
that pywebkitgtk represents i again apologise for taking up your time.

l.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] python hulahop article

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

>  >  i'd say that that's a price paid for the incredible power and
>  > flexibility of what it brings, but hey, nobody said it would be easy
>  > :)   i'm dead impressed that you got XPCOM right, and that it works as
>  > expected, by providing seamless inter-language communication - and now
>  > am a bit puzzled that it's to be deprecated.
>
>
> Isn't that the same that GObject Introspection brings? You code in
>  whatever language that produces a .so with some metadata, then you can
>  call it from any language with bindings for g-o-i.

http://blogs.gnome.org/johan/2007/11/30/future-of-gnome-language-bindings/

 answer: yes it is.  sorry it took so long to get back to you with an
answer, i had to be prompted by someone else putting that article in
front of me.

 l.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Andrés Nacelle]

Really thanks a lot for all the feedback, let me tell you that this is one
of the best feedback I`ve received in a while, congratulations.

I`ll be telling you about this when I look at this.

Bye

Andres Nacelle.

2009/8/14 Benjamin M. Schwartz 

> Andrés Nacelle wrote:
> > We've got good results with the ejabber, but we don't know what
> > will happen in a big school where 200 or 300 XO may appear n the
> > Neighbourhood view.
>
> Two solutions have been developed for this problem.  Both work by making
> sure that each user does not see all 300 other users.
>
> 1.  Collabora's Gadget.  Gadget is a Jabber extension that can be run with
> ejabberd.  It modifies the visibility/roster behaviors so that each user
> only sees a restricted number of other users.  Who sees who can be
> configured programmatically, or even made to be random.
>
> 2.  Moodle's ejabberd integration.  Martin Langhoff developed a system to
> connect Moodle's concept of classes to ejabberd.  The result is that each
> user only sees other users in his/her class, as configured through the
> Moodle web interface.
>
> I'll propose a third option, while we're talking about it:
>
> 3.  Per-class servers.  You can run many different ejabberd instances,
> with DNS names like year4classD.schoolserver.local, one for each
> classroom.  Users can connect to the one for their classroom.  Even if all
> the ejabberds are running on the same physical server, this would prevent
> overload.  Once the servers are set up, no further server-side
> configuration is required, and users can choose which class they are in.
>
> --Ben
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Benjamin M. Schwartz]

Andrés Nacelle wrote:
> We've got good results with the ejabber, but we don't know what
> will happen in a big school where 200 or 300 XO may appear n the
> Neighbourhood view.

Two solutions have been developed for this problem.  Both work by making
sure that each user does not see all 300 other users.

1.  Collabora's Gadget.  Gadget is a Jabber extension that can be run with
ejabberd.  It modifies the visibility/roster behaviors so that each user
only sees a restricted number of other users.  Who sees who can be
configured programmatically, or even made to be random.

2.  Moodle's ejabberd integration.  Martin Langhoff developed a system to
connect Moodle's concept of classes to ejabberd.  The result is that each
user only sees other users in his/her class, as configured through the
Moodle web interface.

I'll propose a third option, while we're talking about it:

3.  Per-class servers.  You can run many different ejabberd instances,
with DNS names like year4classD.schoolserver.local, one for each
classroom.  Users can connect to the one for their classroom.  Even if all
the ejabberds are running on the same physical server, this would prevent
overload.  Once the servers are set up, no further server-side
configuration is required, and users can choose which class they are in.

--Ben



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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[David Van Assche]

Yeah, with that many clients, I'd play with the s2s option to load balance
the xmpp traffic. Either that, and/or take out all debugging options, error
feedback, and the like, so you only get the needed traffic... This page
gives some tuning options:
http://www.ejabberd.im/tuning

Enabling Gadget is supposed to really help, too. Please let us know how it
all goes, as this kind of information is invaluable. From the realtively few
reports we get about collaboration scaling, it seems xmpp based sharing is
not very widespread yet. I guess this is fortunate in one way (things
generally work), but unfortunate in another (not enough feedback)

Also this from ejabberd site:

"Kernel poll reduces ejabberd's CPU usage when it has hundreds (or more)
network connections. It does not affect memory consumption or latency, so if
you plan to support great amounts of simultaneous connected users, you
really want to have a Jabber server with Kernel Poll support."
There is also the possibility of using a different server, but from
everything mentioned, it does seem like Erlang based ejabberd will scale
better than anything else. But good things have been said about Java based
Openfire and Tigase, and Lua based Prosody. We are actually doing an
internal evaluation of the various xmpp servers at my work, so I'll try
publishing that...

good luck,
David Van Assche

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Andrés Nacelle  wrote:

> Hi David, we're aware of this situation. In fact we attempt to share
> activities between this mush XO in order to compare the performance against
> the ejabber. We've got good results with the ejabber, but we don't know what
> will happen in a big school where 200 or 300 XO may appear n the
> Neighbourhood view.
> Without the ejabber lots of udp traffic is generated, from which about 60%
> are retransmissions. If ejabber is used you still should get an improvement
> on the performance if you disable the beacons and the probe response, they
> can produce saturation in the net for some seconds.
>
> Thank for you advise and help.
>
> Andres Nacelle
>
> 2009/8/14 David Van Assche 
>
> Hi Andrés,
>>   The sharing of activities not working for more than a few connections is
>> a common issue in all the deployments I have seen. It is really important to
>> have an ejabberd server to help with routing xmpp traffic, if you plan on
>> running more than a few XOs in collaborative mode.
>>
>> kind regards,
>> David Van Assche
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Andrés Nacelle <
>> anace...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello you all,
>>>
>>> In first place thanks for asking, 'm glad to try to help here.
>>>
>>> Well, lets see. I think in first place we need to make sure witch is the
>>> version of the SO and firmware on the XO from the teacher and children,
>>> which is really easy for the teacher to tell us. There's a chance that she
>>> (or some student) have an activity called something like "Info XO", in that
>>> case they just have to run it and the info will be displayed. In case she
>>> doesn't have it she needs to pres the "tick" button on the game pad during
>>> the booting for the firmware and after the booting change to a terminal an
>>> there look for the SO version.
>>> Once we have that info we can start to see if we can do something about
>>> the mesh issue.
>>> Independent of this, we never been able to share activities on the mesh
>>> for more than a few XO, trying with 20 no XO shared a thing, not even one.
>>>
>>> On the other topics I have nothing to say different from what has been
>>> said in the mailing list.
>>>
>>> Thank
>>>
>>> Andres Nacelle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/8/14 Tomeu Vizoso 
>>>
>>> 2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
 > Hi all,
 >
 > I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
 > request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
 >
 > 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
 > "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.

 Not sure we can debug this remotely :/

 Andrés, do you know about any work in the Ceibal plan to determine the
 reliability of the mesh network?

 > 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
 > home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
 > in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
 > she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
 >
 > 3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
 > pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").
 >
 > 4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
 > move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.

 I understand the frustration, do you think we could get copies of
 those files and more details about the workflow?

 About usb sticks, in versions earlier than 0.84 we are usin

[Sugar-devel] Problem listing journal objects

[Jim Simmons]

In View Slides I have some code that lists out what image files it
finds in the Journal and puts the results in a table, with the idea
that these images may be added to a slide show.  Until now I have been
just putting image files in the root directory of a thumb drive and
have been using the code below to list them:

ds_objects, num_objects =
datastore.find({'mime_type':['image/jpeg',  'image/gif', 'image/tiff',
 \
'image/png']},  'title')
for i in xrange (0, num_objects, 1):
iter = self.ls_right.append()
self.ls_right.set(iter, COLUMN_IMAGE,
ds_objects[i].metadata['title'])
self.ls_right.set(iter,  COLUMN_PATH,  ds_objects[i])

Now this works, but there is a limit to how many files you can put in
a thumb drive root.  I decided to make subdirectories in the thumb
drive and put images in each.  As far as the Journal Activity itself
is concerned this works fine.  I have no problem seeing my image files
in the Journal Activity when it is pointing to the thumb drive.
However, I do not get a listing of the stuff in the thumb drive with
this code, unless the picture is in the root directory of the thumb
drive.

Obviously there is a way to list out these images since the Journal
can do it.  So what am I missing here?

Thanks,

James Simmons
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[Sugar-devel] Design meeting (0.86 features) --- Sunday 16.08.2009 14:00 (UTC)

[Simon Schampijer]

Hey,

next Thursday is Feature Freeze:
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Roadmap#Schedule - this is the list of 
the current features: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Feature_List

We have some open design questions we want to discuss:

* New Toolbar Design
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/New_Toolbar_Design
- simple activity issue (see 
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2009-August/017939.html)
- labels for subtoolbars

* Tags in Journal
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Tags_in_Journal

* Tabs in Browse
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Tabs_In_Browse
- look of the tabs

Date: Sunday 16.08.2009 14:00 (UTC)
Where: irc - #sugar-meeting (freenode)

See you there,
 Simon
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[Sugar-devel] Triage meeting (little features) --- Monday 17.08.2009 14:00 (UTC)

[Simon Schampijer]

Hey,

next Thursday is Feature Freeze: 
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Roadmap#Schedule - this is the list of 
the current features: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Feature_List

What we want to on Monday is, scanning our tracker for tickets that have 
bugs which requires bigger code changes, or are "little feature" like. 
We might be able to fix the bigger ones in time, and at the same time 
get a better feeling what bubbles in the bug pot.

Date: Monday 17.08.2009 14:00 (UTC)
Where: irc - #sugar-meeting (freenode)

See you there,
Simon
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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Andrés Nacelle]

Hi David, we're aware of this situation. In fact we attempt to share
activities between this mush XO in order to compare the performance against
the ejabber. We've got good results with the ejabber, but we don't know what
will happen in a big school where 200 or 300 XO may appear n the
Neighbourhood view.
Without the ejabber lots of udp traffic is generated, from which about 60%
are retransmissions. If ejabber is used you still should get an improvement
on the performance if you disable the beacons and the probe response, they
can produce saturation in the net for some seconds.

Thank for you advise and help.

Andres Nacelle

2009/8/14 David Van Assche 

> Hi Andrés,
>   The sharing of activities not working for more than a few connections is
> a common issue in all the deployments I have seen. It is really important to
> have an ejabberd server to help with routing xmpp traffic, if you plan on
> running more than a few XOs in collaborative mode.
>
> kind regards,
> David Van Assche
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Andrés Nacelle <
> anace...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy> wrote:
>
>> Hello you all,
>>
>> In first place thanks for asking, 'm glad to try to help here.
>>
>> Well, lets see. I think in first place we need to make sure witch is the
>> version of the SO and firmware on the XO from the teacher and children,
>> which is really easy for the teacher to tell us. There's a chance that she
>> (or some student) have an activity called something like "Info XO", in that
>> case they just have to run it and the info will be displayed. In case she
>> doesn't have it she needs to pres the "tick" button on the game pad during
>> the booting for the firmware and after the booting change to a terminal an
>> there look for the SO version.
>> Once we have that info we can start to see if we can do something about
>> the mesh issue.
>> Independent of this, we never been able to share activities on the mesh
>> for more than a few XO, trying with 20 no XO shared a thing, not even one.
>>
>> On the other topics I have nothing to say different from what has been
>> said in the mailing list.
>>
>> Thank
>>
>> Andres Nacelle
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2009/8/14 Tomeu Vizoso 
>>
>> 2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> > I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
>>> > request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
>>> >
>>> > 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
>>> > "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.
>>>
>>> Not sure we can debug this remotely :/
>>>
>>> Andrés, do you know about any work in the Ceibal plan to determine the
>>> reliability of the mesh network?
>>>
>>> > 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
>>> > home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
>>> > in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
>>> > she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
>>> >
>>> > 3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
>>> > pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").
>>> >
>>> > 4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
>>> > move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.
>>>
>>> I understand the frustration, do you think we could get copies of
>>> those files and more details about the workflow?
>>>
>>> About usb sticks, in versions earlier than 0.84 we are using a scheme
>>> that is quite fragile, specially when using the same stick with
>>> non-sugar computers.
>>>
>>> I would recommend deleting the .olpc.store in the usb stick after
>>> every usage in a non-sugar computer and see if weird things stop
>>> happening. If this helps somehow, then we should find a way to
>>> publicize this trick. Note that from Sugar 0.84 this is not needed.
>>>
>>> > 5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
>>> > Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.
>>>
>>> Manu, know anything about it? I guess having a ticket with the
>>> activity logs would help here.
>>>
>>> > 6) She claims that files dissappear for no reason. This probably needs
>>> > to be clarified. She discards the possibility of kids deleting files
>>> > by accident.
>>>
>>> Yes, this deserves further clarification. It's a very wide issue, so
>>> we'll need a way to track all the different circumstances in which
>>> data reliability can happen. The journal data store was rewritten in
>>> 0.84 with increasing reliability on mind, but I guess it will take a
>>> while to update all machines to that or later versions of Sugar.
>>>
>>> > Now the question is, how can we get these questions in reasonable
>>> > shape so it is useful information for debugging?
>>>
>>> That's the Million Laptops Question ;)
>>>
>>> We are doing nice progress on this, but it's a really big task.
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot,
>>>
>>> Tomeu
>>>
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > Gabriel
>>> >
>>> >
>>>

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)

[Tomeu Vizoso]

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 17:12, David Van Assche wrote:
> Ok, I think what's happening here is a breakdown in communication. When I
> used the term obvious, I was talking about Christoph's email... I was
> stating that perhaps the message, as I understood it, was that we need more
> data from the field... and that _the message_ was not obvious enough in the
> email. I never meant that the feedback was not obvious enough... or that
> developers were not doing enough to keep us informed.

Ok, I'm sorry about that. The thread was about feedback from GPA not
being relevant for the 99.99% of Sugar users, in case that helps
explain my reply.

> I really hope this makes sense. I'm a little concerned that I have to be so
> careful about wording. I sort of get the feeling that should one make any
> type of constructive criticism, this is immediately construed as a threat,
> and the person writing the criticism is forced to walk on egg shells.
>
> I understand that talking about what can be done better, or what should have
> been done that wasnt, etc causes very emotional responses because of the
> time people have given to the project, but should we really just shut up
> about this stuff? Or is there value to hearing people's opinions on how
> things could be improved?

I think you are right in that criticism is very important and I didn't
welcomed it properly, hope to improve on this.

> And on that note, I'd like to hear how I can improve gathering feedback for
> our Autonomous region, based on methods currently in place elsewhere. What
> I'm asking for is links to documentation that show how this has been done
> till now in South America, Nepal and Asia, Africa, Europe. I've looked
> around, but there is not too much information on the web. My idea is to try
> and automate this as much as possible by creating a set of scripts, or
> plugins that can measure stats and then send these (probably via xmpp)
>
> Someone mentioned munin, but this doesn't really give user statistics much
> though... its more of a network tool for servers for measuring performance,
> resource usage, and graphing these. What I am talking about is digitising
> the current manual feedback that is happening elsewhere (how many users
> running which apps, lesson plans being used, languages, how many computers
> requiring repairs, general problems people are running into, and generally
> people's feelings on sugar usage, maybe even surveys)

I would start by listing the kind of parameters for which we could use
quantitative data, then think about how we could gather it.

I remember an interesting thread in olpc-sur about assessment of the
plan ceibal, may be interesting to ask there for opinions.

Regards,

Tomeu

> kind regards,
> David Van Assche
>
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 20:17, David Van Assche
>> wrote:
>> > I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying... all I said was "we
>> > need
>> > more data from the field"
>>
>> Well, I also understood that you said that it wasn't obvious enough.
>> Which surprised me after all the noise lately about getting feedback.
>>
>> Anyway, I'm seeing feedback coming right now and also efforts to
>> organize feedback gathering. So, let's do it!
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tomeu
>>
>> > I am in no way blaming anyone for not getting feedback, on the contrary,
>> > I
>> > am frustrated that the calls for feediback are not being heard enoguh,
>> > and I
>> > am well aware of people's efforts to try and get this feedback. What I
>> > am
>> > saying is that the feedback is not coming through does this make
>> > sense?
>> > Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not
>> > seeing
>> > it?
>> >
>> > regards,
>> > David
>> >
>> > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Tomeu Vizoso 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 15:51, David Van Assche
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it
>> >> > as
>> >> > being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small
>> >> > deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is
>> >> > happening
>> >> > on a
>> >> > larger scale in the third world.
>> >>
>> >> Ok, but will give some other interesting information, or not at all?
>> >>
>> >> > And its important to acknowledge the
>> >> > differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely.
>> >>
>> >> And isn't this stating the obvious?
>> >>
>> >> > I think
>> >> > what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way
>> >> > more
>> >> > data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large
>> >> > scale,
>> >> > and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to
>> >> > have
>> >> > some
>> >> > cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa.
>> >>
>> >> I'm quite appalled by this, you don't read the mailing lists where we
>> >> make regular calls for feedback? Short from taking a plane and
>> >> v

Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[David Van Assche]

Hi Andrés,
  The sharing of activities not working for more than a few connections is a
common issue in all the deployments I have seen. It is really important to
have an ejabberd server to help with routing xmpp traffic, if you plan on
running more than a few XOs in collaborative mode.

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Andrés Nacelle  wrote:

> Hello you all,
>
> In first place thanks for asking, 'm glad to try to help here.
>
> Well, lets see. I think in first place we need to make sure witch is the
> version of the SO and firmware on the XO from the teacher and children,
> which is really easy for the teacher to tell us. There's a chance that she
> (or some student) have an activity called something like "Info XO", in that
> case they just have to run it and the info will be displayed. In case she
> doesn't have it she needs to pres the "tick" button on the game pad during
> the booting for the firmware and after the booting change to a terminal an
> there look for the SO version.
> Once we have that info we can start to see if we can do something about the
> mesh issue.
> Independent of this, we never been able to share activities on the mesh for
> more than a few XO, trying with 20 no XO shared a thing, not even one.
>
> On the other topics I have nothing to say different from what has been said
> in the mailing list.
>
> Thank
>
> Andres Nacelle
>
>
>
>
> 2009/8/14 Tomeu Vizoso 
>
> 2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
>> > request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
>> >
>> > 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
>> > "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.
>>
>> Not sure we can debug this remotely :/
>>
>> Andrés, do you know about any work in the Ceibal plan to determine the
>> reliability of the mesh network?
>>
>> > 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
>> > home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
>> > in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
>> > she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
>> >
>> > 3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
>> > pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").
>> >
>> > 4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
>> > move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.
>>
>> I understand the frustration, do you think we could get copies of
>> those files and more details about the workflow?
>>
>> About usb sticks, in versions earlier than 0.84 we are using a scheme
>> that is quite fragile, specially when using the same stick with
>> non-sugar computers.
>>
>> I would recommend deleting the .olpc.store in the usb stick after
>> every usage in a non-sugar computer and see if weird things stop
>> happening. If this helps somehow, then we should find a way to
>> publicize this trick. Note that from Sugar 0.84 this is not needed.
>>
>> > 5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
>> > Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.
>>
>> Manu, know anything about it? I guess having a ticket with the
>> activity logs would help here.
>>
>> > 6) She claims that files dissappear for no reason. This probably needs
>> > to be clarified. She discards the possibility of kids deleting files
>> > by accident.
>>
>> Yes, this deserves further clarification. It's a very wide issue, so
>> we'll need a way to track all the different circumstances in which
>> data reliability can happen. The journal data store was rewritten in
>> 0.84 with increasing reliability on mind, but I guess it will take a
>> while to update all machines to that or later versions of Sugar.
>>
>> > Now the question is, how can we get these questions in reasonable
>> > shape so it is useful information for debugging?
>>
>> That's the Million Laptops Question ;)
>>
>> We are doing nice progress on this, but it's a really big task.
>>
>> Thanks a lot,
>>
>> Tomeu
>>
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Gabriel
>> >
>> >
>> > -- Mensaje reenviado --
>> >
>> > Quisiera que supieras que tenemos algunos problemas con varias cosas
>> > en la xo y me parece que son puntos importantes para que podamos
>> > trabajar mejor con la máquina. te paso algunos, y vos ves si pueden
>> > hacer algo al respecto.
>> > Las redes malla siguen funcionando mal, y desde que se actualizaron
>> > las máquinas es peor, son muy pocos los niños que logran entrar en la
>> > misma red.
>> > He tenido dificultades cuando guardo en el pen drive textos realizados
>> > en write, los leo con el open office y luego vuelvo a cargarlo en sus
>> >  máquinas y no me los lee, aún cuando no les realizo ninguna
>> > modificación. Probé cambiándole el formato a pdf, que sé que las xo lo
>> > leen, y no pude, cuando abro el pen en la xo y hago clic en

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)

[David Van Assche]

Ok, I think what's happening here is a breakdown in communication. When I
used the term obvious, I was talking about Christoph's email... I was
stating that perhaps the message, as I understood it, was that we need more
data from the field... and that _the message_ was not obvious enough in the
email. I never meant that the feedback was not obvious enough... or that
developers were not doing enough to keep us informed.

I really hope this makes sense. I'm a little concerned that I have to be so
careful about wording. I sort of get the feeling that should one make any
type of constructive criticism, this is immediately construed as a threat,
and the person writing the criticism is forced to walk on egg shells.

I understand that talking about what can be done better, or what should have
been done that wasnt, etc causes very emotional responses because of the
time people have given to the project, but should we really just shut up
about this stuff? Or is there value to hearing people's opinions on how
things could be improved?

And on that note, I'd like to hear how I can improve gathering feedback for
our Autonomous region, based on methods currently in place elsewhere. What
I'm asking for is links to documentation that show how this has been done
till now in South America, Nepal and Asia, Africa, Europe. I've looked
around, but there is not too much information on the web. My idea is to try
and automate this as much as possible by creating a set of scripts, or
plugins that can measure stats and then send these (probably via xmpp)

Someone mentioned munin, but this doesn't really give user statistics much
though... its more of a network tool for servers for measuring performance,
resource usage, and graphing these. What I am talking about is digitising
the current manual feedback that is happening elsewhere (how many users
running which apps, lesson plans being used, languages, how many computers
requiring repairs, general problems people are running into, and generally
people's feelings on sugar usage, maybe even surveys)

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 20:17, David Van Assche
> wrote:
> > I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying... all I said was "we
> need
> > more data from the field"
>
> Well, I also understood that you said that it wasn't obvious enough.
> Which surprised me after all the noise lately about getting feedback.
>
> Anyway, I'm seeing feedback coming right now and also efforts to
> organize feedback gathering. So, let's do it!
>
> Regards,
>
> Tomeu
>
> > I am in no way blaming anyone for not getting feedback, on the contrary,
> I
> > am frustrated that the calls for feediback are not being heard enoguh,
> and I
> > am well aware of people's efforts to try and get this feedback. What I am
> > saying is that the feedback is not coming through does this make
> sense?
> > Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not seeing
> > it?
> >
> > regards,
> > David
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Tomeu Vizoso 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 15:51, David Van Assche
> >> wrote:
> >> > H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it
> as
> >> > being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small
> >> > deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening
> >> > on a
> >> > larger scale in the third world.
> >>
> >> Ok, but will give some other interesting information, or not at all?
> >>
> >> > And its important to acknowledge the
> >> > differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely.
> >>
> >> And isn't this stating the obvious?
> >>
> >> > I think
> >> > what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way
> more
> >> > data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large
> >> > scale,
> >> > and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have
> >> > some
> >> > cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa.
> >>
> >> I'm quite appalled by this, you don't read the mailing lists where we
> >> make regular calls for feedback? Short from taking a plane and
> >> visiting school by school, I don't see what else I can do to get that
> >> feedback.
> >>
> >> You understand Spanish, search the olpc-sur mailing list for posts by
> >> Walter and me and tell here again if we don't ask for feedback.
> >>
> >> It's really frustrating that we are here spending our savings and time
> >> on this project, and not only the people deploying our software don't
> >> want to talk to us despite our requests, but other people still think
> >> we don't want to know about them.
> >>
> >> Frustratedly yours,
> >>
> >> Tomeu
> >>
> >> > kind Regards,
> >> > David Van Assche
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David Farning <
> dfarn...@sugarlabs.org>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph
> >> >> Derndorfer 

Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Andrés Nacelle]

Hello you all,

In first place thanks for asking, 'm glad to try to help here.

Well, lets see. I think in first place we need to make sure witch is the
version of the SO and firmware on the XO from the teacher and children,
which is really easy for the teacher to tell us. There's a chance that she
(or some student) have an activity called something like "Info XO", in that
case they just have to run it and the info will be displayed. In case she
doesn't have it she needs to pres the "tick" button on the game pad during
the booting for the firmware and after the booting change to a terminal an
there look for the SO version.
Once we have that info we can start to see if we can do something about the
mesh issue.
Independent of this, we never been able to share activities on the mesh for
more than a few XO, trying with 20 no XO shared a thing, not even one.

On the other topics I have nothing to say different from what has been said
in the mailing list.

Thank

Andres Nacelle




2009/8/14 Tomeu Vizoso 

> 2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
> > request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
> >
> > 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
> > "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.
>
> Not sure we can debug this remotely :/
>
> Andrés, do you know about any work in the Ceibal plan to determine the
> reliability of the mesh network?
>
> > 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
> > home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
> > in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
> > she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
> >
> > 3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
> > pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").
> >
> > 4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
> > move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.
>
> I understand the frustration, do you think we could get copies of
> those files and more details about the workflow?
>
> About usb sticks, in versions earlier than 0.84 we are using a scheme
> that is quite fragile, specially when using the same stick with
> non-sugar computers.
>
> I would recommend deleting the .olpc.store in the usb stick after
> every usage in a non-sugar computer and see if weird things stop
> happening. If this helps somehow, then we should find a way to
> publicize this trick. Note that from Sugar 0.84 this is not needed.
>
> > 5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
> > Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.
>
> Manu, know anything about it? I guess having a ticket with the
> activity logs would help here.
>
> > 6) She claims that files dissappear for no reason. This probably needs
> > to be clarified. She discards the possibility of kids deleting files
> > by accident.
>
> Yes, this deserves further clarification. It's a very wide issue, so
> we'll need a way to track all the different circumstances in which
> data reliability can happen. The journal data store was rewritten in
> 0.84 with increasing reliability on mind, but I guess it will take a
> while to update all machines to that or later versions of Sugar.
>
> > Now the question is, how can we get these questions in reasonable
> > shape so it is useful information for debugging?
>
> That's the Million Laptops Question ;)
>
> We are doing nice progress on this, but it's a really big task.
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Tomeu
>
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Gabriel
> >
> >
> > -- Mensaje reenviado --
> >
> > Quisiera que supieras que tenemos algunos problemas con varias cosas
> > en la xo y me parece que son puntos importantes para que podamos
> > trabajar mejor con la máquina. te paso algunos, y vos ves si pueden
> > hacer algo al respecto.
> > Las redes malla siguen funcionando mal, y desde que se actualizaron
> > las máquinas es peor, son muy pocos los niños que logran entrar en la
> > misma red.
> > He tenido dificultades cuando guardo en el pen drive textos realizados
> > en write, los leo con el open office y luego vuelvo a cargarlo en sus
> >  máquinas y no me los lee, aún cuando no les realizo ninguna
> > modificación. Probé cambiándole el formato a pdf, que sé que las xo lo
> > leen, y no pude, cuando abro el pen en la xo y hago clic en el
> > archivo, ahí puedo ver que está el texto (no lo abrió aún) y hago clic
> > en retomar y qqueda la hoja en blanco. no tengo idea como voy  a hacer
> > para que reparen el texto si ellos no lo bajan en la xo.
> > yo no entiendo, pensé que al tener kubuntu y el open office podría
> > trabajar igual que los niños, pasando de una máquina a la otra sin
> > problemas. Necesito saber más para poder manejarme mejor.
> > otra dificultad que encontré es que en el social calc, la planilla
> > electrónica, a

Re: [Sugar-devel] Karma: bundle layout improve

[Bryan Berry]

On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 11:18 +0545, Christoph Derndorfer wrote:
> 2009/8/14 Felipe López Toledo 
> Hello there
> 
> I know we already talked about the Bundle_layout[ 1 ]
> but, I suggest to reorganize Lesson structure  using this:
> 
> lesson_name/
>  index.html   # lesson content
>  lesson/# lesson folder
>  game/ # game folder
>  exercise/  #exercise folder
>  
> 
> lesson, game and exercise folder will contain
> index.html   # the lesson, game or whatever
> css/
> js/
> assets/
>   generic/
>  images/
>  audio/
>  video/
> ...
>   {lang-Code}/
>  images/
>  audio/
>  video/
>   

Hmm, your proposal could work. Before I air my concerns, I don't think
we should use the word "lesson" to refer to the tutorial part of a Karma
lesson. Calling the union of lesson + exercise+game+lesson plan also a
"lesson" is confusing. I prefer we call the 1st part of a karma lesson a
"tutorial" or "reading". I think that will make things less confusing
than using "lesson" twice in slightly different contexts.

Subzero, the benefit of your approach is that it makes it easier to
reuse games and exercises in new lessons. This makes sense when an
adding game can relatively easily be transformed into a subtraction
game. At the same time, the related tutorial and exercise could easily
be remade for subtraction.

There will likely be a lot of common assets between the tutorial, game,
and exercise. Splitting them up entirely could create a lot of
duplication as the same images and sounds are present in both. However,
it also could make life easier for the programmer, who wouldn't have to
prefix each image w/  "exercise" or "tutorial".

I think we should change the current layout to reflect some of your
points http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Karma/Bundle_layout#Lesson
but I am wary or separating the tutorial, exercise, and game so sharply
 
but let me think about this more ;)


-- 
Bryan W. Berry
Technology Director
OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org

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[Sugar-devel] community support

[David Farning]

http://getsatisfaction.com/sugarlabs is getting some questions from users.

If you are interest in community support, here is your chance:)

david
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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[David Farning]

Tickets filed for 2-5.
Thanks

david

2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
> Hi all,
>
> I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
> request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
>
> 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
> "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.
>
> 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
> home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
> in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
> she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
>
> 3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
> pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").
>
> 4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
> move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.
>
> 5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
> Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.
>
> 6) She claims that files dissappear for no reason. This probably needs
> to be clarified. She discards the possibility of kids deleting files
> by accident.
>
> Now the question is, how can we get these questions in reasonable
> shape so it is useful information for debugging?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gabriel
>
>
> -- Mensaje reenviado --
>
> Quisiera que supieras que tenemos algunos problemas con varias cosas
> en la xo y me parece que son puntos importantes para que podamos
> trabajar mejor con la máquina. te paso algunos, y vos ves si pueden
> hacer algo al respecto.
> Las redes malla siguen funcionando mal, y desde que se actualizaron
> las máquinas es peor, son muy pocos los niños que logran entrar en la
> misma red.
> He tenido dificultades cuando guardo en el pen drive textos realizados
> en write, los leo con el open office y luego vuelvo a cargarlo en sus
>  máquinas y no me los lee, aún cuando no les realizo ninguna
> modificación. Probé cambiándole el formato a pdf, que sé que las xo lo
> leen, y no pude, cuando abro el pen en la xo y hago clic en el
> archivo, ahí puedo ver que está el texto (no lo abrió aún) y hago clic
> en retomar y qqueda la hoja en blanco. no tengo idea como voy  a hacer
> para que reparen el texto si ellos no lo bajan en la xo.
> yo no entiendo, pensé que al tener kubuntu y el open office podría
> trabajar igual que los niños, pasando de una máquina a la otra sin
> problemas. Necesito saber más para poder manejarme mejor.
> otra dificultad que encontré es que en el social calc, la planilla
> electrónica, a la mitad de los chicos se les borra la información al
> guardar, es decir, queda en el journal como guardada, pero los datos
> no aparecen en pantalla cuando abrís.
> Pasa mucho que les desaparecen los archivos, se les borran solos.
> Antes creía que eran ellos que los borraban sin querer, pero ahora me
> doy cuenta que es así.
> ___
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> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
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[Sugar-devel] Engineering committee

[Aleksey Lim]

Hi all,

Some questions were risen on irc channel:

tomeu │ so, pending issues I see: 1) tarball containing binaries, 2) sucrose 
bundles containing binary code, 3) duplicated 
  │ code in sucrose tarballs, 4) adding dependencies to the platform


So, we need an engineering committee to solve these questions effectively.

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 02:07:06PM -0500, David Farning wrote:
> Please ping me when start to feel the need for such a committee.  I
> can point you to examples of successful steering committees or I can
> help you create one to meet sugar developers needs.
> 
> david

I guess its time to share your experience ;)

-- 
Aleksey
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS with SD cards irregularities

[Bill Kerr]

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Sascha Silbe <
sascha-ml-ui-sugar-de...@silbe.org> wrote:

> [CC list trimmed quite a bit]
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 04:20:17PM +0930, Bill Kerr wrote:
>
>  aborted
>> boot:
>>
>>
>> I then tried tab anyway and got:
>>
>> linux0 check0 local
>>
>
> Please try typing "linux0 rootwait" (without the quotes) and pressing
>  at the "boot:" prompt.



I did try "linux0 rootwait" (without the quotes) at the boot prompt

It just did the same thing as before: the XO icon appears, the ring form but
without icons, just dots and then it exits to the WARNING screen, the same
screen as before


>
>
>
> CU Sascha
>
> --
> http://sascha.silbe.org/
> http://www.infra-silbe.de/
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJKf+iJAAoJELpz82VMF3DaXNoIALyHYMGerpPDgZkNxX0pHyRJ
> xECIoycASh0XCSlDRXuKc42VWuGrDOwhUMHHznP2hd+EjwnQaw6+LFEmKiRojXxm
> JptMpGHB6WpSdLC7u9aiuXb1Z6knSpkrp+Iavvj2l8qwKIdsb3PnSz6OWvxpnzix
> RQm+GywXGuchW6pK0KOiq26iRD8FdKjTTbky4C+r5zWW/U6QfAJ9XBUEP4PaheZD
> zFpH2mFYhROIqlKL8MnQ/HENrUGg8r/trUrVONebh/QM0vRrT6AYbR7VnEJ0uHnE
> g0a6VWmUP/OTFzKzAiQYeJmu26BJFdvFGnp29ttkj/zPGLpUEaUxKsX0uMy3bcc=
> =kzeB
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Chakra (iPhone style;-) - Stage 1

[Christoph Derndorfer]

2009/8/14 Christoph Derndorfer 

> I just commited an early version of a Chakra's Stage 1 as suggested by
> Bryan in his latest blog entry (
> http://karmaproject.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/building-a-better-chakra-some-ideas/#comments
> ).
>

Added very early versions of Stage 2 (for Grade 1) and Stage 3 (Grade 1 -
English)...

Christoph

-- 
Christoph Derndorfer
co-editor, olpcnews
url: www.olpcnews.com
e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com
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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Manusheel Gupta]

Tomeu,

> 5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
> Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.

>Manu, know anything about it? I guess having a ticket with the
>activity logs would help here.

Yes, this bug was existing in an earlier version of SocialCalc, which has
been fixed in 0.8.3g release.

Save and restore should work very well now.

Gabriel, please ask the teacher to download the latest SocialCalc activity
package from here  . Kindly let me know if
we run into any issues. Thank you for sharing the feedback.

Regards,

Manu


On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:

> 2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
> > request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
> >
> > 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
> > "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.
>
> Not sure we can debug this remotely :/
>
> Andrés, do you know about any work in the Ceibal plan to determine the
> reliability of the mesh network?
>
> > 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
> > home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
> > in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
> > she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
> >
> > 3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
> > pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").
> >
> > 4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
> > move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.
>
> I understand the frustration, do you think we could get copies of
> those files and more details about the workflow?
>
> About usb sticks, in versions earlier than 0.84 we are using a scheme
> that is quite fragile, specially when using the same stick with
> non-sugar computers.
>
> I would recommend deleting the .olpc.store in the usb stick after
> every usage in a non-sugar computer and see if weird things stop
> happening. If this helps somehow, then we should find a way to
> publicize this trick. Note that from Sugar 0.84 this is not needed.
>
> > 5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
> > Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.
>
> Manu, know anything about it? I guess having a ticket with the
> activity logs would help here.
>
> > 6) She claims that files dissappear for no reason. This probably needs
> > to be clarified. She discards the possibility of kids deleting files
> > by accident.
>
> Yes, this deserves further clarification. It's a very wide issue, so
> we'll need a way to track all the different circumstances in which
> data reliability can happen. The journal data store was rewritten in
> 0.84 with increasing reliability on mind, but I guess it will take a
> while to update all machines to that or later versions of Sugar.
>
> > Now the question is, how can we get these questions in reasonable
> > shape so it is useful information for debugging?
>
> That's the Million Laptops Question ;)
>
> We are doing nice progress on this, but it's a really big task.
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Tomeu
>
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Gabriel
> >
> >
> > -- Mensaje reenviado --
> >
> > Quisiera que supieras que tenemos algunos problemas con varias cosas
> > en la xo y me parece que son puntos importantes para que podamos
> > trabajar mejor con la máquina. te paso algunos, y vos ves si pueden
> > hacer algo al respecto.
> > Las redes malla siguen funcionando mal, y desde que se actualizaron
> > las máquinas es peor, son muy pocos los niños que logran entrar en la
> > misma red.
> > He tenido dificultades cuando guardo en el pen drive textos realizados
> > en write, los leo con el open office y luego vuelvo a cargarlo en sus
> >  máquinas y no me los lee, aún cuando no les realizo ninguna
> > modificación. Probé cambiándole el formato a pdf, que sé que las xo lo
> > leen, y no pude, cuando abro el pen en la xo y hago clic en el
> > archivo, ahí puedo ver que está el texto (no lo abrió aún) y hago clic
> > en retomar y qqueda la hoja en blanco. no tengo idea como voy  a hacer
> > para que reparen el texto si ellos no lo bajan en la xo.
> > yo no entiendo, pensé que al tener kubuntu y el open office podría
> > trabajar igual que los niños, pasando de una máquina a la otra sin
> > problemas. Necesito saber más para poder manejarme mejor.
> > otra dificultad que encontré es que en el social calc, la planilla
> > electrónica, a la mitad de los chicos se les borra la información al
> > guardar, es decir, queda en el journal como guardada, pero los datos
> > no aparecen en pantalla cuando abrís.
> > Pasa mucho que les desaparecen los archivos, se les borran solos.
> > Antes creía que eran ellos que los borraban sin querer, pero ahora me
> > doy cuenta que es

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)

[Tomeu Vizoso]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 20:17, David Van Assche wrote:
> I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying... all I said was "we need
> more data from the field"

Well, I also understood that you said that it wasn't obvious enough.
Which surprised me after all the noise lately about getting feedback.

Anyway, I'm seeing feedback coming right now and also efforts to
organize feedback gathering. So, let's do it!

Regards,

Tomeu

> I am in no way blaming anyone for not getting feedback, on the contrary, I
> am frustrated that the calls for feediback are not being heard enoguh, and I
> am well aware of people's efforts to try and get this feedback. What I am
> saying is that the feedback is not coming through does this make sense?
> Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not seeing
> it?
>
> regards,
> David
>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 15:51, David Van Assche
>> wrote:
>> > H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it as
>> > being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small
>> > deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening
>> > on a
>> > larger scale in the third world.
>>
>> Ok, but will give some other interesting information, or not at all?
>>
>> > And its important to acknowledge the
>> > differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely.
>>
>> And isn't this stating the obvious?
>>
>> > I think
>> > what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way more
>> > data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large
>> > scale,
>> > and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have
>> > some
>> > cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa.
>>
>> I'm quite appalled by this, you don't read the mailing lists where we
>> make regular calls for feedback? Short from taking a plane and
>> visiting school by school, I don't see what else I can do to get that
>> feedback.
>>
>> You understand Spanish, search the olpc-sur mailing list for posts by
>> Walter and me and tell here again if we don't ask for feedback.
>>
>> It's really frustrating that we are here spending our savings and time
>> on this project, and not only the people deploying our software don't
>> want to talk to us despite our requests, but other people still think
>> we don't want to know about them.
>>
>> Frustratedly yours,
>>
>> Tomeu
>>
>> > kind Regards,
>> > David Van Assche
>> >
>> > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David Farning 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph
>> >> Derndorfer wrote:
>> >> > Sean DALY schrieb:
>> >> >> IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly useful
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> all teachers and Learners. The observations and take-aways need to
>> >> >> be
>> >> >> triaged of course, starting with what can/should be done by Sugar
>> >> >> Labs, but I am convinced many learnings will benefit large
>> >> >> deployments. Until reliable means of sharing experiences and
>> >> >> feedback
>> >> >> (polls, questionnaires, council of deployers, etc.) can be put in
>> >> >> place, microscopic study of a classroom using Sugar is well worth
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> effort, in particular for revealing blockers.
>> >> >>
>> >> > I'm not sure I really agree with this statement...
>> >>
>> >> Christoph please keep the dramatic headlines to olpcnews.
>> >>
>> >> In the above paragraph, Walter notes that many lessons can be learned
>> >> from controlled environments which can then be applied to larger
>> >> scaled, less controlled environments.
>> >>
>> >> Please note, this does not _exclude_ anyone from providing feedback
>> >> from large scale deployments.  Nor does it _prevent_ anyone from
>> >> creating small scale deployments anywhere in the world.  _all_ it
>> >> states is that it is often cost effective to start small and grow as
>> >> lessons have been learned.
>> >>
>> >> And yes, Christoph I _am_ holding your writing to a higher standard.
>> >> Several times, you have described yourself as the voice of the
>> >> project.
>> >>
>> >> david
>> >>
>> >> > Extrapolating the data and drawing conclusions based on observations
>> >> > in
>> >> > a trial that represents less than 0,01% of all current Sugar
>> >> > installations is a risky endeavor at best and a serious mistake at
>> >> > worst. Even more so when the environment between the trial (in this
>> >> > case
>> >> > GPA) and the global deployments really couldn't be more different in
>> >> > just about every way imaginable (SoaS vs. XO, summer classes vs.
>> >> > regular
>> >> > year-long classes, Boston connectivity vs. Rwanda connectivity, 25
>> >> > installations in a school vs. 1000 installations in a school, US
>> >> > power
>> >> > infrastructure vs. Nepali power infrastructure, having a team
>> >> > consisting
>> >> > of Walter / Greg / Caroline supporting the efforts vs. being lucky to
>>

Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Tomeu Vizoso]

2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
> Hi all,
>
> I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
> request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
>
> 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
> "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.

Not sure we can debug this remotely :/

Andrés, do you know about any work in the Ceibal plan to determine the
reliability of the mesh network?

> 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
> home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
> in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
> she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
>
> 3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
> pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").
>
> 4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
> move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.

I understand the frustration, do you think we could get copies of
those files and more details about the workflow?

About usb sticks, in versions earlier than 0.84 we are using a scheme
that is quite fragile, specially when using the same stick with
non-sugar computers.

I would recommend deleting the .olpc.store in the usb stick after
every usage in a non-sugar computer and see if weird things stop
happening. If this helps somehow, then we should find a way to
publicize this trick. Note that from Sugar 0.84 this is not needed.

> 5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
> Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.

Manu, know anything about it? I guess having a ticket with the
activity logs would help here.

> 6) She claims that files dissappear for no reason. This probably needs
> to be clarified. She discards the possibility of kids deleting files
> by accident.

Yes, this deserves further clarification. It's a very wide issue, so
we'll need a way to track all the different circumstances in which
data reliability can happen. The journal data store was rewritten in
0.84 with increasing reliability on mind, but I guess it will take a
while to update all machines to that or later versions of Sugar.

> Now the question is, how can we get these questions in reasonable
> shape so it is useful information for debugging?

That's the Million Laptops Question ;)

We are doing nice progress on this, but it's a really big task.

Thanks a lot,

Tomeu

> Thanks,
>
> Gabriel
>
>
> -- Mensaje reenviado --
>
> Quisiera que supieras que tenemos algunos problemas con varias cosas
> en la xo y me parece que son puntos importantes para que podamos
> trabajar mejor con la máquina. te paso algunos, y vos ves si pueden
> hacer algo al respecto.
> Las redes malla siguen funcionando mal, y desde que se actualizaron
> las máquinas es peor, son muy pocos los niños que logran entrar en la
> misma red.
> He tenido dificultades cuando guardo en el pen drive textos realizados
> en write, los leo con el open office y luego vuelvo a cargarlo en sus
>  máquinas y no me los lee, aún cuando no les realizo ninguna
> modificación. Probé cambiándole el formato a pdf, que sé que las xo lo
> leen, y no pude, cuando abro el pen en la xo y hago clic en el
> archivo, ahí puedo ver que está el texto (no lo abrió aún) y hago clic
> en retomar y qqueda la hoja en blanco. no tengo idea como voy  a hacer
> para que reparen el texto si ellos no lo bajan en la xo.
> yo no entiendo, pensé que al tener kubuntu y el open office podría
> trabajar igual que los niños, pasando de una máquina a la otra sin
> problemas. Necesito saber más para poder manejarme mejor.
> otra dificultad que encontré es que en el social calc, la planilla
> electrónica, a la mitad de los chicos se les borra la información al
> guardar, es decir, queda en el journal como guardada, pero los datos
> no aparecen en pantalla cuando abrís.
> Pasa mucho que les desaparecen los archivos, se les borran solos.
> Antes creía que eran ellos que los borraban sin querer, pero ahora me
> doy cuenta que es así.
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>



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What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David
Farning
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?

[Gary C Martin]

Hi Simon,

On 14 Aug 2009, at 09:31, Simon Schampijer wrote:

> On 08/13/2009 12:43 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote:
>> On 08/12/2009 07:36 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 18:54, Christian Marc
>>> Schmidt   wrote:
 Great--should we plan on holding a design meeting this Sunday? I  
 can be
 available after 10am EST (2pm UTC).
>>> Sounds good to me.
>>>
>>> See you then,
>>>
>>> Tomeu
>>
>> Does work perfectly for me, too! How do we do it, irc, phone?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Simon
>
> Gary, Eben - does this time work as well for you?
>
> Sunday 10am EST (2pm UTC)

Yes, I can make that time – see you there (irc).

Regards,
--Gary

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Physics] JSON persistence

[Gary C Martin]

Hi Asaf,

On 14 Aug 2009, at 06:03, Asaf Paris Mandoki wrote:

> The JSON support has been up in git for a couple of days. What's  
> next? I guess we need to do lots of testing.

I'm travelling back home this weekend, I'm hoping to get my additional  
code changes in and tested ready for a release early next week (if all  
is going well).

> I would like to help more with testing but I don't know how to  
> install git inside SoaS.

su -c 'yum -y install git'

Should do it for you, FWIW I think the latest SoaS build has sudo now,  
but the above su should work if not.

> Something that will also make things easier is to know how to  
> install activities I get from git.

After cloning the source, I'd usually just use the Sugar UI to erase  
the old Activity version, then ./setup.py dist_xo and sugar-install- 
bundle dist/Physics2.xo, but after that, you can move the git clone  
content directly in ~/Activities/Physics.activity for a minimal test  
cycle (unless your testing changes to Activity icon or MIME stuff that  
Sugar registers during install).

> Any thoughts on the UI for the rocket engine? I suggest using  
> something similar to the triangle tool to draw an arrow. The problem  
> of dragging the mouse that younger kids have should be addresed in a  
> similar way to the other tools.

I'll need to focus on v3 for a while, but something like the triangle  
tool to draw too sounds good to me once we get this release out the  
door :-)

Regards,
--Gary

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar frozen when trying to register.. bug in idmgr?

[Martin Langhoff]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Raul Gutierrez
Segales wrote:
> Has anybody experienced Sugar (0.82) freezing when trying to register
> against the server? I was unable to register (although connectivity
> seemed fine) and when sniffing the network I saw:
>
> 172.18.0.1.8080 > 172.18.96.196.47780: S
> 172.18.0.1.8080 > 172.18.96.196.47780: S
> 172.18.0.1.8080 > 172.18.96.196.47780: S
> 172.18.0.1.8080 > 172.18.96.196.47780: S

First time I hear of it. Had you done something in particular? Maybe
many clients at the same time?

cheers,



m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Tomeu Vizoso]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 23:16, Sascha
Silbe wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 04:32:08PM -0300, Gabriel Eirea wrote:
>
>> 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
>> home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
>> in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
>> she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
>
> To me this sounds like OpenOffice is saving a later version of the
> OpenDocument (ODT) format than Write understands (similar to Microsoft Word
> 95 not being able to read documents that have been written by Microsoft Word
> 97). In that case, there may be a way to tell Open Office to save in the
> older ODT version, so that Write can still read it.
> I hope someone else more proficient with Write (Abiword) and OpenOffice will
> either confirm or disprove my suspicion.

Yes, would be awesome to get those files and see in which format are.

Thanks,

Tomeu

> CU Sascha
>
> --
> http://sascha.silbe.org/
> http://www.infra-silbe.de/
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>



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What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?

[Simon Schampijer]

On 08/13/2009 02:42 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
> I guess my example wasn't as clear as it could have been. The idea is
> to use the the button, but to have the submenu show up on the right
> (as shown) instead of below, as in the example that had been
> previously circulated. So, yes, we'd keep the button behavior.
>
> -walter

I guess, this would add quite some complexity to the code, to draw the 
subtoolbar on the left then. We could of course - just let the arrow 
point to the left - and add the fields to the toolbar like before. Not 
sure, how clear that distinction would be to the user, though.

A possibility based on an idea from Gary:

simple activity
activity icon - text entry - share - keep - stop

more advanced
[activity icon] - [edit] - [x] [y] - stop
 |
text - share - keep

That way the consistency is done by having the activity icon always at 
the left and the stop icon always at the right. The rest is up to the 
author. And the docs should be made good enough to reach consistency in 
design.

Regards,
Simon
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?

[Simon Schampijer]

On 08/13/2009 12:43 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote:
> On 08/12/2009 07:36 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 18:54, Christian Marc
>> Schmidt   wrote:
>>> Great--should we plan on holding a design meeting this Sunday? I can be
>>> available after 10am EST (2pm UTC).
>> Sounds good to me.
>>
>> See you then,
>>
>> Tomeu
>
> Does work perfectly for me, too! How do we do it, irc, phone?
>
> Regards,
>  Simon

Gary, Eben - does this time work as well for you?

Sunday 10am EST (2pm UTC)

Thanks,
Simon
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar frozen when trying to register.. bug in idmgr?

[Tomeu Vizoso]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 19:22, Raul Gutierrez Segales wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Has anybody experienced Sugar (0.82) freezing when trying to register
> against the server? I was unable to register (although connectivity
> seemed fine) and when sniffing the network I saw:
>
> 172.18.0.1.8080 > 172.18.96.196.47780: S
> 172.18.0.1.8080 > 172.18.96.196.47780: S
> 172.18.0.1.8080 > 172.18.96.196.47780: S
> 172.18.0.1.8080 > 172.18.96.196.47780: S
>
> I thought idmgr might be hanged.. So I did:
>
> service idmgr restart
>
> and everything started working again.. Anyone bumped into something
> similar recently?

Never saw that, but this should be async so the UI doesn't freezes.
Could you please enter a ticket about it in http://dev.sugarlabs.org?

Thanks,

Tomeu

> Regards,
> Raúl
>
>
>
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What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Physics] JSON persistence

[Martin Dengler]

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 12:03:30AM -0500, Asaf Paris Mandoki wrote:
> The JSON support has been up in git for a couple of days. What's next? I
> guess we need to do lots of testing. 

> I would like to help more with testing but I don't know how to
> install git inside SoaS.

Just run:
 sudo yum -y install git

> Greetins,
> Asaf

Martin


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[Sugar-devel] Chakra (iPhone style;-) - Stage 1

[Christoph Derndorfer]

Hi,
I just commited an early version of a Chakra's Stage 1 as suggested by Bryan
in his latest blog entry (
http://karmaproject.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/building-a-better-chakra-some-ideas/#comments
).

Cheers,
Christoph

-- 
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co-editor, olpcnews
url: www.olpcnews.com
e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com
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