Re: [Sugar-devel] Community XO software builds
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 12:04 AM, James Cameron wrote: > On Thu, May 07, 2015 at 10:28:06AM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: >> On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 4:21 AM, Samuel Greenfeld >> wrote: >> > The obvious counterargument would be that a deployment might want >> > to deploy your XO-Next (whatever it is) alongside existing XO >> > laptops, allowing all of them to have the same configuration. >> >> From my memory of olpc-os-builder it was very modular and wouldn't be >> hard to add dozens of different devices support to it. > > Yes, it would be straightforward to add commodity hardware support to > olpc-os-builder. Add kernel and boot loader. Add some sort of > installer. > > But we have SoaS, and SoaS works fine on commodity hardware, so why > bother with olpc-os-builder? Because same process for any and every device. A single process is a good thing, it makes it easier to understand and get a consistent configuration everywhere. > Because olpc-update? Nobody uses it. The interesting thing here is that Atomic on Fedora would provide everything that olpc-update was designed to do and it could make upgrades between Fedora releases much easier and less of an issue with regards to TLS. Plus probably a bunch of things that it currently doesn't and it's upstream being actively developed, instead of home brew, would likely ease the security updates issues mentioned previously and easy pushing out of updates, caching updates for bandwidth etc. > Because preinstalled activities? SoaS can do that too. > >> > There's plenty of blame to go around in terms of re-inventing the wheel and >> > lack of communication. >> >> Yep! >> >> > There simply (and correct me if I'm wrong) are not the resources inside of >> > OLPC, outside, or combined at this time to maintain and update two separate >> > builds & build systems. >> > >> > It amazes me how far we bend over backwards to avoid saying "end of life" >> > and "end of support". >> > >> > >> > I have seen a fair amount of interest, both publicly and privately, for >> > newer XO laptop builds. But I don't think the requesters realize how much >> > work it takes to make one. >> >> The big one here is kernel kernel kernel. > > Yes. > >> > And I do not forsee anyone stepping up to get the XO-1.75 and XO-4 kernel & >> > drivers into a state they can be upstreamed or upgraded for newer Fedoras >> > unless a deployment really wants this instead of newer equipment. >> >> Or even the 1.5, I believe most of the XO-1 support is upsteream. >> >> > Newer operating systems tend to require more disk space and RAM than the >> > predecessors. We have seen this even within Fedora's lineage. >> >> Yes, and no. I mean 1Gb of the original XO-1 is tight, but SoaS still >> happily fits in 4Gb with a bunch of space to spare. Looking at my >> current SoaS VM the used space is around 1.9Gb. Amusingly the various >> cloud/container enterprise initiatives actively help us here because >> for once they care about dependency bloat too :-) >> >> The two things that add bloat to the current SoaS image are: >> * Browse needs to be converted to the new WebKitGtk APIs so we don't >> ship two copies of WebKitGtk. >> * Conversion of remaining gstreamer 0.10 to 1.0 to allow us not to ship that. >> >> Ultimately I think you could with a little development effort get it >> down to 1.5Gb used space which would make a 2Gb filesystem quite >> usable. >> >> > Since OLPC already appears to be going the Ubuntu LTS route, I would argue >> > it would be easiest to take everything that way, porting utilities as >> > required, and make that the final image & build system for XOs. >> >> Personally I have no interest in that. I wish you luck. > > -- > James Cameron > http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Subject: Activities maintainership
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 3:15 AM, Tony Anderson wrote: > I doubt anyone has the time to go through ASLO and determine which > activity repositories are still hosted at Sugarlabs or which activities do > not support Pootle. It would be nice to have these added to the list. > > I assume that the division of activities into Sucrose, etc. has some > official meaning. I had thought those were associated with Activity > Central. Is there some process for deciding which category to place an > activity, e.g. ones included in a signed release? > The only separation is: glucose: sugar toolkit and the desktop fructose: the core activities. A long time ago, these were the activities distributed with the olpc images, and tested with every release. honey: all the other activities. With the time, olpc images included more activities, and the separation between fructose and honey didn't have sense anymore. Honey2 was a separation made in the pootle server, because a page with a big number of activities was very slow. These names are no related to AC (they had a image called dextrose) I proposed in the past or remove the categories or put in fructose all the activities olpc (or now sugarlabs) test and distribute by default in the images. But didn't had traction and in the end is more work for infraestructure team without to much gain. Also, if we move activities from categories, some url would change, and we will broken links. > > Some of the documentation also needs updating. For example, the Browse > activity web page is given in ASLO as http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Browse. > This page directs you to > http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4024 as the home page. > This page describes 129.1 (an Xulrunner version). The 'source code' link > takes you to http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/browse. The pootle page > links 'Web' (not Browse) to http://translate.sugarlabs.org/projects/Web/. > This pages shows the translation status of the Browse activity. The wiki > does not link to the github repository which is > https://github.com/sugarlabs/browse-activity. A Google search for a > github project 'Web' returns https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-web; > however a search for github browse activity returns the correct link. > > This is true. Is a task where anybody could help, and that work would be beneficial and appreciated. Gonzalo ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Subject: Activities maintainership
Re which actives are in pootle, it is by request through trac. Nothing to do with which group it is included in. On May 8, 2015 2:15 AM, "Tony Anderson" wrote: > I doubt anyone has the time to go through ASLO and determine which > activity repositories are still hosted at Sugarlabs or which activities do > not support Pootle. It would be nice to have these added to the list. > > I assume that the division of activities into Sucrose, etc. has some > official meaning. I had thought those were associated with Activity > Central. Is there some process for deciding which category to place an > activity, e.g. ones included in a signed release? > > Some of the documentation also needs updating. For example, the Browse > activity web page is given in ASLO as http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Browse. > This page directs you to > http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4024 as the home page. > This page describes 129.1 (an Xulrunner version). The 'source code' link > takes you to http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/browse. The pootle page > links 'Web' (not Browse) to http://translate.sugarlabs.org/projects/Web/. > This pages shows the translation status of the Browse activity. The wiki > does not link to the github repository which is > https://github.com/sugarlabs/browse-activity. A Google search for a > github project 'Web' returns https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-web; > however a search for github browse activity returns the correct link. > > Tony > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activities maintainership
Thanks Agustín, is good know about you. I have updated the wiki page, no idea what happened with the openid login. Gonzalo On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 7:54 PM, Agustín Zubiaga wrote: > Hey everyone! > > I just moved this activities: > * Chart: g...@github.com:aguzubiaga/chart.git > * Annotate: g...@github.com:aguzubiaga/sugar-annotate.git > * Install: g...@github.com:aguzubiaga/sugar-install.git > * JAMEdit: g...@github.com:aguzubiaga/sugar-jamedit.git > > I tried to edit the wiki to add the new repositories but I used to login > with Google and they deprecated their OpenID 2.0 Login, I also tried to do > it with Yahoo! but I had no success. Could someone update it for me? That > would be great. > As far as I know only Chart and Annotate are in pootle. > > Regards, > Agustín Zubiaga > > A.K.A. The lost one :) > > El jue., 7 may. 2015 a las 18:14, Gonzalo Odiard () > escribió: > >> With the movement to github, needed by the new pootle server, >> we created a list of activities and repositories to keep trac >> of the changes in the repositories: >> >> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Translation_Team/Pootle_Projects/Repositories >> >> If you are a activity maintainer, and still didn't moved your repository >> to github, please do it, and update the wiki page. If you need support >> with anything in the process, just tell us. >> >> (Chart is one of these, Agustin ;) ) >> >> For the activities still not moved, we need assume the maintainers are no >> longer >> available. A few of us are taking care of these activities, >> but would be good involve to more hackers. >> If someone is interested in collaborate, but is afraid of the >> responsibility of >> maintain a activity, I would like co-maintain some of the activities >> still orphan: >> The most urgent are >> * Distance >> * Implode >> * Labyrinth >> * Moon >> * StopWatch >> * TamTam >> * Level >> >> If anybody is interested in co-maintain any other activity, reply in this >> thread, >> or send private mail. >> >> -- >> Gonzalo Odiard >> >> SugarLabs - Software for children learning >> > -- Gonzalo Odiard SugarLabs - Software for children learning ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Community XO software builds
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 7:49 PM, James Cameron wrote: > On Thu, May 07, 2015 at 11:28:42AM -0300, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: > > When I talked with deployments and they ask for Ubuntu, > > and I ask why, what they really want is Long Time Support. > > No deployment change their image more than once a year. > > In fact, change a image is a logistic challenge for most of > > the big/middle size deployments. > > This continues to puzzle me. LTS is a stream of security updates, and > you say the deployments do not apply them until the next year? > > And yet they want them? > > They want something they don't use? > > If a vulnerability is reported just after they make their image, the > children are exposed to the vulnerability for the rest of the year. > > It seems more likely that the meaning of LTS is not understood. > > Fedora continues with security updates for a similar time period, but > if the deployment uses our builder unchanged they won't get them. I'm > expecting that if a deployment needs LTS on Fedora they will assume > the responsibility to apply the updates when they make a build. > > All valid points. I sent a email to the deployment to ask for more information. I will report when have a reply. -- Gonzalo Odiard SugarLabs - Software for children learning ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Another little computer kickstarter
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-worlds-first-9-computer Looks like all the software and hardware is open... -- Gonzalo Odiard SugarLabs - Software for children learning ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] New Fedora Spins Site
Fedora Design Team is working in the new Fedora Spins site. Sugar on a Stick is included there, and they are asking for feedback and content. http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2015/05/07/time-to-kick-the-tires-on-the-new-fedora-websites-in-staging/ Who can provide the information requested? -- Gonzalo Odiard SugarLabs - Software for children learning ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] More details on brightness control in Sugar
Hello Sam and James, I have sent a PR for the complete work on brightness controls for Sugar [1]. Please give it a try! Regards, Martin. Refs: 1. https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/pull/504 On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Martin Abente < martin.abente.lah...@gmail.com> wrote: > Alright, working on it already ;) Should have something to show today. > > On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 5:31 AM, Sam P. wrote: > >> Hi Martin, >> >> Using the sugar-backlight-helper with a polkit file to change the >> brightness file sounds like a very good idea. That would significantly >> reduce the complexity of the change. >> >> Please feel free to make the changes and send through a patch. >> >> I will try and fix up the iconography issues. >> >> Thanks, >> Sam >> >> On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 9:43 AM James Cameron wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the research. >>> >>> On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 06:27:59PM -0400, Martin Abente wrote: >>> > [...] >>> > It would not be too difficult to re-implement the same mechanism for >>> > Sugar. In fact I have re-implemented the exact same functionality >>> > provided by "gsd-backlight-helper" in >>> > Python. https://github.com/tchx84/ >>> > sugar-backlight-helper/blob/master/sugar-backlight-helper.py >>> >>> Have to remove .py from the link. >>> >>> > @James, can you also give it a try? >>> >>> Worked fine for me on Ubuntu 14.04.2 on commodity hardware. Small >>> changes to README.md sent in pull request. >>> >>> > (this also works for the XO btw). >>> >>> Yes, and it will be useful for integration with the proposed frame >>> device icon for the display. >>> >>> The F9 and F10 keys will continue to be intercepted by olpc-kbdshim.c, >>> which calls olpc-brightness shell script in subprocess. >>> >>> However, a similar user experience with the audio device icon will >>> occur, where the Sugar UI will ignore changes made by olpc-brightness. >>> See #1677 and dev.laptop.org #9913. >>> >>> So Sugar will need a way to be informed of brightness changes made by >>> other processes; which on commodity hardware will be brightness >>> controls handled by other system programs, and on XO laptops will be >>> olpc-kbdshim and powerd. >>> >>> To detect changes to a sysfs file; not sure how this is done, but for >>> the time being we can read it occasionally. To make that more >>> efficient, I've added --get-path option to the helper. See pull >>> request #2. >>> >>> > Regarding the use of a separate tool to deal with permissions, I >>> > wonder if GSD deliberately separated that tool to simplify the >>> > integration with PolKit. The question is: should we do something >>> > similar with sugar? I personally think is a valid option, but I >>> > wonder if there is another way of using PolKit to grant permissions >>> > directly to Sugar for writing to the device. I don't have much >>> > experience with PolKit. >>> >>> Security design is that the program that needs the secure access >>> should be as small as possible. >>> >>> Otherwise, you widen the attack vector to everything in Sugar shell. >>> >>> > @Sam, @James, if we think we can go this direction, I can will some >>> > changes on top of Sam's previous work tomorrow. >>> >>> Adding sugar-backlight-helper to the sugar sources seems to be the >>> right direction. This adds a dependency on polkit, but you could make >>> it a soft dependency and not install the helper if polkit is not >>> available. >>> >>> -- >>> James Cameron >>> http://quozl.linux.org.au/ >>> >> > ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Community XO software builds
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Samuel Greenfeld wrote: > You might laugh but when the OLPC Association was actively answering bids > for laptops, this dance happened all the time. Also known as "sales calls", never a strong point with FLOSS projects, and one of the reasons so many Intel Classmates were deployed. Sean. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Another little computer kickstarter
The onboard composite video out is an interesting approach... can plug into old secondhand TVs with poor resolution, just like my first computer in 1983. Of course, when you add everything that's missing, you hit 10x the price, as you've seen before. And fragile cables/adapters all over the place. They are quite vague about their distro, and are organizing incentives for kernel hackers, which likely means compatibility and performance issues need work. Sean On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: > > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-worlds-first-9-computer > > Looks like all the software and hardware is open... > > -- > Gonzalo Odiard > > SugarLabs - Software for children learning > > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > i...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Feature discussion can also be found on GitHub
Sugar source code development is hosted on GitHub, which provides discussion threads on each proposal. Non-developers: some features and changes will be in our next version without any discussion on sugar-devel@ To keep track of these off-list discussions, watch the sugarlabs repositories, in particular the pull requests for repositories such as sugar: https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/pulls Or the other components and activities you are interested in: https://github.com/sugarlabs To join a discussion, sign up for a GitHub account. There seems to be no way to extend these discussions into sugar-devel@ in a bidirectional manner. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Activities Collaboration on SoaS 22
I managed to test Sugar on Fedora 22 release (SoaS 22). Looking good. However I have not been able to get activities working on collaboration mode - memorize, write, record, etc. Wonder if this is my problem ? Cheers and a good weekend --- T.K. Kang ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Read 115 issues
Installed size on XO-1 went from 789k to 1278k, over the 114 to 115 transition. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Read 115 issues
Yes, already reported. I sent a pr https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/pull/212 to solve that issue. We need prepare a new .xo after the pr is accepted. Gonzalo On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 11:47 PM, James Cameron wrote: > Installed size on XO-1 went from 789k to 1278k, over the 114 to 115 > transition. > > -- > James Cameron > http://quozl.linux.org.au/ > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- Gonzalo Odiard SugarLabs - Software for children learning ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Browse version using Webkit2
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 07:52:57AM +1000, James Cameron wrote: > On Mon, May 04, 2015 at 10:40:48AM -0300, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: > > I finally could make yum update, and yes Browse works, > > do not corrupt the fonts in the toolbar and do not crash. > > Oh, good, I'm glad my results are reproducible. > > > Would be nice have a testing image with all he updates to get more > > testing. Looks like there are a lot of interested people. > > Agreed, there seem to be three of them. > > But I'm working with frozen repositories, so I would like to make a > minimal change. I've avoided the problem by switching from frozen repositories to Fedora 18 updates. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
