Re: [Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities

[Tony Anderson]

Walter,

I will try. I am moving on Feb 3 to Palawan. I'll try to get to it then. 
My principal concern re GSOC is to define projects with manageable scope 
- many of the past projects ended undelivered.


Tony

On 1/21/19 3:10 PM, Walter Bender wrote:



On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 3:44 AM James Cameron > wrote:


Fascinating, I never thought the move to GitHub was ever going to
achieve all that.  It was to enable a shutdown of the unmaintained
gitorious instance at git.sugarlabs.org
. Which still hasn't happened
because it is still useful, in turn because this community hasn't the
time to do the necessary leg work to finish the move to GitHub.


I would be curious what is still on Gitorious that hasn't been migrated.

FWIW, my principle motivations for the move were (1) as James points 
out -- on less piece of infrastructure for us to maintain; and (2) 
GitHub for better or worse is much more familiar to and likely to be 
discovered by potential developers. I think GH has been a decent tool 
which requires minimal effort on our part. Not sure that the latter 
really amounts to too much.


Re Tony's point about the ownership model, I don't see that anything 
we are doing suggests we don't want to continue to support individual 
contributions. I interpreted James's list not as a matter of ownership 
but rather a surfacing of what is actually happening re maintenance. 
In some sense, what is being articulated is the equivalent of the 
Fructose vs Honey nomenclature of the past where the core developers 
are saying: "These activities will be maintained. Cannot speak for 
everything else."


That said, I think Tony makes a great point re thinking about the 
pedagogical implications of our choices, which have had little if any 
input from the learning side of the house. Would be great to get more 
input to help us in regard to what is most valuable to our users 
(whether they know it or not). @Tony Anderson 
 would be great if you could rework you 
thoughts about Python into a GSoC idea.


regards.

-walter

In short, it has nothing to do with the tools, and everything to do
with contributors.

I'll continue to focus on the activities I've got on my list.  That
doesn't mean I won't help with the other activities, but I won't
necessarily spend as much time with the others.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 09:12:01AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
> While it is marvelous to see some actual attention to the Sugar
activities,
> this approach is the direct opposite of the logic behind the
move of the
> activities to gitHub. This is a return to the G1G1 model in
which individuals
> develop, contribute and own activities. There can be no
abandoned or orphaned
> activities in a community support model.
>
> It was recognized by Walter and others that there were two
factors which made
> that ownership model unworkable. First, changes in Sugar
software support such
> as the move to GTK3 made common changes to all activities
necessary and,
> second, that many of the original contributors are no longer
involved with
> Sugar.
>
> GitHub was touted as the way in which Sugar Labs as a community
would support
> Sugar and its library of activities. However, in practice
support for
> activities has become increasingly limited to a small number of
ones selected
> for inclusion in the 13.2 series of builds.
>
> The Sugar activities library is made available to our users via
ASLO.
> Unfortunately, there are activities with new versions in gitHub
which have not
> been released to ASLO and thus are unknown to our users. There
is even
> confusion over which 'github'. It has to be kept clear that
developers can use
> any method they chose. What is controlled is the repository on
gitHub. Any
> changes outside of the Sugar Labs github are invisible until
they are submitted
> as a new version.
>
> Educational intent
>
> What I would like to see is a return to the founding philosophy
of Sugar.
> Everyone is welcome to contribute. When you get 10 lines of code
working,
> submit your activity. Sugar is designed to provide all the
software tools
> needed to develop activities in Sugar - no cross-development,
containers, or
> virtual environments. Instead of requesting new contributors to
demonstrate
> their technical proficiency by putting their name on the XO icon
in the Home
> View, identify some real examples of changes that would improve
Sugar. There
> are plenty available:
>
> Fix the icons on 'my settings' so they are visible instead of
switching to
> gnome by clicking on the big toe.
> When you take a screenshot and switch to the Journal to give it
a title, you
> 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestion on moving from IRC to Gitter

[Walter Bender]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 8:31 PM James Cameron  wrote:

> Over the past few days, we've had more discussion in Gitter than IRC.
>
> We still have Thomas (satellit) in IRC.
>

I'll deal with wherever(s).

>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.netrek.org/
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>


-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

___
Sugar-devel mailing list
Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestion on moving from IRC to Gitter

[James Cameron]

Over the past few days, we've had more discussion in Gitter than IRC.

We still have Thomas (satellit) in IRC.

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
___
Sugar-devel mailing list
Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 123, Issue 31

[James Cameron]

ntored.
> >
> > I don't know what a "successful Open Source organisation" means. But I
> > don't think we should release more ideas than we can mentor. Having less
> > projects does not imply our failure in any sense, lack of existing
> > contributors
> > might indicate that.
> >
> > > Here I would suggest an idea for the renovation of our Website, blog
> > <[13]http://planet.sugarlabs.org/>, and
> > > creation of a customized/integration of existing CMS to our website
> from
> > > where admins can create articles directly.
> >
> > FWIW, our current website was also implemented as a GSoC Project. I
> > don't think it will improve our tools, or if it will actually be
> > completed. Past
> > examples show that development of such tools (Sugar Social, ASLO v3)
> > never got into deployment at the end.
> >
> > Even if we add a project for improving the website, 2 years down the 
> line
> > we might again face a similar email pointing out the drawbacks of the 
> new
> > model and another revamping of the website.
> >
> > Although I would be happy to see contributions made to improve the
> > website, I am not in favor of adding this as a GSoC Project.
> > FYI, there are plans of A/B testing of the website, though I don't know
> the
> > current status.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Rahul
> > ___
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > [14]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > [15]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >
> 
> --
> ---
> Oversight Board Member at Sugar Labs
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <[16]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/
> 20190121/ed366573/attachment-0001.html>
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 23:12:03 +0530
> From: Rahul Bothra <[17]rrbot...@gmail.com>
> To: Alex Perez <[18]ape...@alexperez.com>
> Cc: Sugar-dev Devel <[19]sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestion on moving from IRC to Gitter
> Message-ID:
>          m60vr...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Thanks James and Alex, I've reviewed all comments and suggestions.
> 
> For most of the suggestions, I found no alternate but to use IRC. My
> idea was to see how many people are willing to move to Gitter, and if
> it be helpful for new contributors.
> I've observed this to the only criteria in my recent (radical) decisions
> and they've mostly been poorly thought out, for us as an organisation.
> 
> I'm not in favor of keeping both Gitter and IRC, as it further splits the
> community and introduces more problems than it will solve. I have no
> personal preference for either of the two.
> 
> I currently have the channel [21]https://gitter.com/Sugar-Labs setup on
> Gitter.
> I'll let SLOBs and others make the final decision. I'm too young and
> inexperienced to comment any further ;-)
> 
> Thanks
> Rahul Bothra
> 
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 8:40 AM Alex Perez <[22]ape...@alexperez.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > As an oversight board member, for all the same reasons cited below, I am
> > 100% _not_ in favor of this proposal. It's a crude attempt at
> > re-implementing IRC, and despite being open-source, is effectively a
> > proprietary service, which there is no guarantee of continued support
> for.
> > If you want to offer to maintain a Gitter-to-IRC bridge, that's great,
> > otherwise I think this highly negative move.
> >
> > I guess the real question I have, which doesn't seem to have been
> answered
> > anywhere yet, is, why Gitter, specifically? There are other, much more
> > option options, such as Matrix, which have far more mature IRC
> integration
> > options.
> >
> > James Cameron wrote on 1/20/19 4:16 PM:
> >
> > Thanks Rahul.  Please add to the plan;
> >
> > - critical people; identify the critical code maintainers and note
> >   when they have engaged with Gitter.im on a continuous basis; in
> >   particular we are yet to hear from Lionel and Ibiam.
> >

Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestions for GSoC 2019

[James Cameron]

Thanks.  But my vote is no.

It's not three months of coding.

It doesn't solve a problem we have with our software products; Sugar,
activities, Music Blocks, or Sugarizer.

Our problem with the web site is with the content, in turn because we
have had few content producers, and too many people proposing style and
layout changes instead.

Last month, or November, we had a team formed to do A/B testing, but
the A/B testing has not yet begun.  I'm guessing they are too busy.
Perhaps it is time for more people to speak up in order to slow it
down even further.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 07:44:28PM +0530, Amaan Iqbal wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I see we only have 6 projects so far in our Ideas list in comparison to 11
> which were selected in GSoC last year. Being a successful Open Source
> organization, I sincerely hope we have the potential of having many more
> projects in GSoC this year(most probably 15+ if we can come up with such
> promising ideas).  
> 
> Here I would suggest an idea for the renovation of our Website, [1]blog, and
> creation of a customized/integration of existing CMS to our website from where
> admins can create articles directly. Also some other web pages can also be
> added to this list if I am missing something. The end product will be expected
> to have :
> 
>   • Material Designed 
>   • no/minimal redundancies in code
>   • faster load time
>   • Use of latest website standards
>   • Wider reach in terms of accessibility
>   • Faster and easier updates from the admins to the website
>   • Elimination of device specific issues
>   • Removal of most of the issues on [2]www-sugarlabs
>   • Easy setup for a new contributor
> 
> After mentoring for few design tasks in GCI and collaborating with several 
> pull
> requests I found that the website was mostly constructed with many components
> placed forcefully in their places including a search box in the navbar, such
> that website looks somehow decent. But the design is not at all generic and so
> as a result there use to be many small issues with looks and behavior of
> components on different devices. Also, the website is not updated to the 
> latest
> web standards. 
> 
> Further, publicity in the best way with appropriate [3]accessibility of the
> website is important for any organization and I sincerely hope this idea has
> that potential.
> 
> Looking forward to hearing your opinion on this before sending a Pull Request
> on the GSoC ideas list.
> 
> Regards,
> Amaan
> 
> References:
> 
> [1] http://planet.sugarlabs.org/
> [2] https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs/issues
> [3] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Accessibility/HTML

> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel


-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
___
Sugar-devel mailing list
Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestions for GSoC 2019

[Peace Ojemeh]

Greetings,

So I’ve been making a couple research about this for while now,
visiting several orgs that does something similar us @samswag helped
with some links, all in the attempt to give our website what it take
to be entertaining and highly engaging, relate a lot more with our
targeted audience (teachers, students, parents, contributors ) to help
them understand what they should at first glance. I improved the
download steps so it helps them understand and get how to download
easily without stress.

I added why a user should get sugar.

It’s still a work in progress as I figured even the last design that’s
under development now Wouldn’t really solve the problem. We need MORE
call to action buttons, more exciting colors, a better navigation
processes.

Hoping to move most primary information from wiki to the site, instead
of breaking their section on the site to go to wiki(it lost them
totally)

Another implementation the redesign contains is to embed sugarizer,
mb, Tb, primero(web) into the website like what scratch does, so you
can try out these tools while on the site and then also choose to
continue navigating on the site.

This current design with the improvements should:

Captivate the audience more
Increase download of Sugar and sugarizer
Make students, parents, teachers etc feel more at home
Easy to see how to contribute
Get a feel of the tools before download

It’s still a work in progress and it also requires we update all the
necessary wiki entries and move some of the important wiki content to
the website like having the contributors page, download and
installation process etc right on the website

Here’s a link to the prototype of some of the pages I’ve been able to
come up with(there’s a lot more left)

https://www.figma.com/proto/S5HOtML81fzqVggN73meu5P8/Untitled?node-id=4%3A672&scaling=min-zoom


This is as important as improving Sugar Labs tools. Without an
actionable site our tools won't reach our potential users. We need the
users (students parents, school administration) to be able to download
and use Sugar and every other Sugar Labs tools effectively without
stress then we can record an increase in downloads of these tools we
put in so much to build.

scenario:

A teacher sees a tweet about sugar, gets interested, go straight to
the website on getting there get confused, and then leaves. we must
have lost a lot of potential Sugar users because of this, it needs to
be looked into and actions needs to be taken.

"It doesn't solve a problem we have with our software products (Sugar,
activities, Music Blocks, or Sugarizer)."

It will improve the download rates of  these softwares greatly.


"Even if we add a project for improving the website, 2 years down the line
we might again face a similar email pointing out the drawbacks of the new
model and another revamping of the website"

Yes, why do have you have to update softwares and get out new
releases?  not because your original idea was bad but because it has
to improve, it has to fit in. new approves comes everyday to better
solve a problem that's why upgrades are needed at regular
intervals.(example, during this few weeks of research I had scratch
changed the design of their website, doesn't mean the old one was
awful). But the current state of our website is awful, very awful and
needs to be given attention.

For me GSoC could be a good and easy way out of that, I don't see why
it's of less importance ... it should sell our tools.

Regards.



On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 at 19:05, Rahul Bothra  wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 10:47 PM Samson Goddy  
> wrote:
> > Sugar Labs Social was never a GSoC project, I don't understand why
> > you keep bringing it up
>
> Thanks, I know. I simply pointed that it never reached deployment,
> though I'm sure people working on it even as we speak.
>
> > Any "coding" project that is related to Sugar Lab's goals or leads to
> > improvement to the mission is eligible as a  Gsoc project.
>
> I agree with this statement. This is what I found on https://sugarlabs.org;
> At Sugar Labs, we make a collection of tools that learners use to explore,
> discover, create, and reflect The mission of Sugar Labs is to support
> the Sugar community of users and developers and establish regional,
> autonomous “Sugar Labs” around the world to help learners “learn how
> to learn” by tailoring Sugar to local languages and curricula.
>
> I think our goals should be aligned with our mission itself, and I don't
> expect revamping a website to be a _goal_.
>
> > Everything is as important as the other
>
> I disagree.
> Sugar Desktop is more important than https://sugarlabs.org.
> MusicBlocks is more important than ASLO v3. Sugarizer is more
> important than the 'not a GSoC project' Sugar Social.
>
> Again, these were my personal opinions of what should be included in
> GSoC, subjected to some research and past evidences. There are better
> people who've had more experience with GSoC.
>
> Thanks
> Rahul
> __

Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestion on moving from IRC to Gitter

[Rahul Bothra]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 11:12 PM Rahul Bothra  My idea was to see how many people are willing
> to move to Gitter, and if it be helpful for new contributors.
> I've observed this to the only criteria in my recent (radical)
> decisions and they've mostly been poorly thought out,
> for us as an organisation

Rephrasing and fixing grammar,

My intention was to see how many people are want to move from IRC, and if
it will turn out easier for new contributors.
I realised that I've been taking many such readical steps to introduce
easiness for new contributors, and that they've mostly been poorly thought
out, for us as an organisation.

Thanks

>
___
Sugar-devel mailing list
Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 123, Issue 31

[Avinash Bharti]

 >
> > Although I would be happy to see contributions made to improve the
> > website, I am not in favor of adding this as a GSoC Project.
> > FYI, there are plans of A/B testing of the website, though I don't know
> the
> > current status.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Rahul
> > ___
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >
>
>
> --
> ---
> Oversight Board Member at Sugar Labs
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20190121/ed366573/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 23:12:03 +0530
> From: Rahul Bothra 
> To: Alex Perez 
> Cc: Sugar-dev Devel 
> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestion on moving from IRC to Gitter
> Message-ID:
>  m60vr...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Thanks James and Alex, I've reviewed all comments and suggestions.
>
> For most of the suggestions, I found no alternate but to use IRC. My
> idea was to see how many people are willing to move to Gitter, and if
> it be helpful for new contributors.
> I've observed this to the only criteria in my recent (radical) decisions
> and they've mostly been poorly thought out, for us as an organisation.
>
> I'm not in favor of keeping both Gitter and IRC, as it further splits the
> community and introduces more problems than it will solve. I have no
> personal preference for either of the two.
>
> I currently have the channel https://gitter.com/Sugar-Labs setup on
> Gitter.
> I'll let SLOBs and others make the final decision. I'm too young and
> inexperienced to comment any further ;-)
>
> Thanks
> Rahul Bothra
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 8:40 AM Alex Perez  wrote:
>
> > As an oversight board member, for all the same reasons cited below, I am
> > 100% _not_ in favor of this proposal. It's a crude attempt at
> > re-implementing IRC, and despite being open-source, is effectively a
> > proprietary service, which there is no guarantee of continued support
> for.
> > If you want to offer to maintain a Gitter-to-IRC bridge, that's great,
> > otherwise I think this highly negative move.
> >
> > I guess the real question I have, which doesn't seem to have been
> answered
> > anywhere yet, is, why Gitter, specifically? There are other, much more
> > option options, such as Matrix, which have far more mature IRC
> integration
> > options.
> >
> > James Cameron wrote on 1/20/19 4:16 PM:
> >
> > Thanks Rahul.  Please add to the plan;
> >
> > - critical people; identify the critical code maintainers and note
> >   when they have engaged with Gitter.im on a continuous basis; in
> >   particular we are yet to hear from Lionel and Ibiam.
> >
> > - licensing; as an open source project within the Software Freedom
> >   Conservancy, we should aim to promote tools that have a compatible
> >   license.  Devin said the web app is licensed MIT, but the service is
> >   All Rights Reserved.
> >
> > - inclusiveness of prior contributors; we have several contributors
> >   who know how to use IRC, but are disinclined due to their age to
> >   use the modern systems; how do we continue to include them?
> >
> > - further division; every time we start something new, we divide again
> >   the group of people talking, and the new group often forgets to keep
> >   the old group informed; how will the non-Gitter.im contributors be
> >   kept informed?  I'm not asking about the IRC contributors, but also
> >   people using GitHub, Wiki, Trac, Jabber, Pootle, and the mailing
> >   lists.
> >
> > - Code of Conduct; how to make this more obvious in Gitter.im?
> >   Especially "If you come across a post that is in an incorrect forum,
> >   please respectfully redirect the poster to the appropriate" (as has
> >   happened already), and making sure to consult others.
> >
> > I've briefly authorised and looked at Gitter.im, using Firefox on
> > Ubuntu, and have observations;
> >
> > 1.  a significant increase in mail contact attempts by other projects
> > on GitHub; i.e. you'll get more spam, because people have coded things
> > to get to you through Gitter,
> >
> > 2.  a daily mail message containing some of the notifications from
> > Gitter, but not a

Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestions for GSoC 2019

[Rahul Bothra]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 10:47 PM Samson Goddy 
wrote:
> Sugar Labs Social was never a GSoC project, I don't understand why
> you keep bringing it up

Thanks, I know. I simply pointed that it never reached deployment,
though I'm sure people working on it even as we speak.

> Any "coding" project that is related to Sugar Lab's goals or leads to
> improvement to the mission is eligible as a  Gsoc project.

I agree with this statement. This is what I found on https://sugarlabs.org;
*At Sugar Labs, we make a collection of tools that learners use to explore,*
*discover, create, and reflect The mission of Sugar Labs is to support*
*the Sugar community of users and developers and establish regional,*
*autonomous “Sugar Labs” around the world to help learners “learn how*
*to learn” by tailoring Sugar to local languages and curricula.*

I think our goals should be aligned with our mission itself, and I don't
expect revamping a website to be a _goal_.

> Everything is as important as the other

I disagree.
Sugar Desktop is more important than https://sugarlabs.org.
MusicBlocks is more important than ASLO v3. Sugarizer is more
important than the 'not a GSoC project' Sugar Social.

Again, these were my personal opinions of what should be included in
GSoC, subjected to some research and past evidences. There are better
people who've had more experience with GSoC.

Thanks
Rahul
___
Sugar-devel mailing list
Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestions for GSoC 2019

[Walter Bender]

My two cents re GSoC: from the very beginning of our involvement, I have
thought of it as an opportunity for us to take some risks and explore new
ideas. That being said, it is incumbent upon us to provide good mentoring
and follow through.

-walter

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 12:18 PM Samson Goddy 
wrote:

> Just for some point of correction.
>
>  Sugar Labs Social was never a GSoC project, I don't understand why you
> keep bringing it up. Any "coding" project that is related to Sugar Lab's
> goals or leads to improvement to the mission is eligible as a  Gsoc project.
>
> Some project requires more than 3 months of coding to be called a
> successful project. I just wonder how these decisions are made. Let utilize
> the GSoC platform to improve every form of Sugar Labs as much as possible.
> Everything is as important as the other.
>
> The current tools we are building how do we measure its success?
>
> Regards
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 5:47 PM Rahul Bothra  wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 7:44 PM Amaan Iqbal 
>> wrote:
>> > I see we only have 6 projects so far in our Ideas list in comparison to
>> 11
>> > which were selected in GSoC last year. Being a successful Open Source
>> > organization, I sincerely hope we have the potential of having many more
>> > projects in GSoC this year(most probably 15+ if we can come up with
>> > such promising ideas).
>>
>> We had 12 projects last year, out of which 1 was failed officially. Many
>> projects failed to deliver what was expected out of them, including my
>> own.
>> Some projects did not involve improving our tools, Sugar Desktop,
>> Activities,
>> MusicBlocks or Sugarizer, and did add any value to the organisation.
>> This was primarily because we had more projects than we could handle,
>> and that some projects were not effectively groomed and mentored.
>>
>> I don't know what a "successful Open Source organisation" means. But I
>> don't think we should release more ideas than we can mentor. Having less
>> projects does not imply our failure in any sense, lack of existing
>> contributors
>> might indicate that.
>>
>> > Here I would suggest an idea for the renovation of our Website, blog
>> , and
>> > creation of a customized/integration of existing CMS to our website from
>> > where admins can create articles directly.
>>
>> FWIW, our current website was also implemented as a GSoC Project. I
>> don't think it will improve our tools, or if it will actually be
>> completed. Past
>> examples show that development of such tools (Sugar Social, ASLO v3)
>> never got into deployment at the end.
>>
>> Even if we add a project for improving the website, 2 years down the line
>> we might again face a similar email pointing out the drawbacks of the new
>> model and another revamping of the website.
>>
>> Although I would be happy to see contributions made to improve the
>> website, I am not in favor of adding this as a GSoC Project.
>> FYI, there are plans of A/B testing of the website, though I don't know
>> the
>> current status.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rahul
>> ___
>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>
>
> --
> ---
> Oversight Board Member at Sugar Labs
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>


-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

___
Sugar-devel mailing list
Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestion on moving from IRC to Gitter

[Rahul Bothra]

Thanks James and Alex, I've reviewed all comments and suggestions.

For most of the suggestions, I found no alternate but to use IRC. My
idea was to see how many people are willing to move to Gitter, and if
it be helpful for new contributors.
I've observed this to the only criteria in my recent (radical) decisions
and they've mostly been poorly thought out, for us as an organisation.

I'm not in favor of keeping both Gitter and IRC, as it further splits the
community and introduces more problems than it will solve. I have no
personal preference for either of the two.

I currently have the channel https://gitter.com/Sugar-Labs setup on Gitter.
I'll let SLOBs and others make the final decision. I'm too young and
inexperienced to comment any further ;-)

Thanks
Rahul Bothra



On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 8:40 AM Alex Perez  wrote:

> As an oversight board member, for all the same reasons cited below, I am
> 100% _not_ in favor of this proposal. It's a crude attempt at
> re-implementing IRC, and despite being open-source, is effectively a
> proprietary service, which there is no guarantee of continued support for.
> If you want to offer to maintain a Gitter-to-IRC bridge, that's great,
> otherwise I think this highly negative move.
>
> I guess the real question I have, which doesn't seem to have been answered
> anywhere yet, is, why Gitter, specifically? There are other, much more
> option options, such as Matrix, which have far more mature IRC integration
> options.
>
> James Cameron wrote on 1/20/19 4:16 PM:
>
> Thanks Rahul.  Please add to the plan;
>
> - critical people; identify the critical code maintainers and note
>   when they have engaged with Gitter.im on a continuous basis; in
>   particular we are yet to hear from Lionel and Ibiam.
>
> - licensing; as an open source project within the Software Freedom
>   Conservancy, we should aim to promote tools that have a compatible
>   license.  Devin said the web app is licensed MIT, but the service is
>   All Rights Reserved.
>
> - inclusiveness of prior contributors; we have several contributors
>   who know how to use IRC, but are disinclined due to their age to
>   use the modern systems; how do we continue to include them?
>
> - further division; every time we start something new, we divide again
>   the group of people talking, and the new group often forgets to keep
>   the old group informed; how will the non-Gitter.im contributors be
>   kept informed?  I'm not asking about the IRC contributors, but also
>   people using GitHub, Wiki, Trac, Jabber, Pootle, and the mailing
>   lists.
>
> - Code of Conduct; how to make this more obvious in Gitter.im?
>   Especially "If you come across a post that is in an incorrect forum,
>   please respectfully redirect the poster to the appropriate" (as has
>   happened already), and making sure to consult others.
>
> I've briefly authorised and looked at Gitter.im, using Firefox on
> Ubuntu, and have observations;
>
> 1.  a significant increase in mail contact attempts by other projects
> on GitHub; i.e. you'll get more spam, because people have coded things
> to get to you through Gitter,
>
> 2.  a daily mail message containing some of the notifications from
> Gitter, but not all,
>
> 3.  the display does not scroll with page down, page up, or arrow
> keys, unless you first click in the message area,
>
> 4.  it isn't clear how I can make a local log of the discussion,
>
> 5.  the network demand is substantially greater than IRC; this is not
> something we can expect to scale up into schools with poor networks,
>
> 6.  the power and processing demand is higher.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from Postbox
> 
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
___
Sugar-devel mailing list
Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestions for GSoC 2019

[Samson Goddy]

Just for some point of correction.

 Sugar Labs Social was never a GSoC project, I don't understand why you
keep bringing it up. Any "coding" project that is related to Sugar Lab's
goals or leads to improvement to the mission is eligible as a  Gsoc project.

Some project requires more than 3 months of coding to be called a
successful project. I just wonder how these decisions are made. Let utilize
the GSoC platform to improve every form of Sugar Labs as much as possible.
Everything is as important as the other.

The current tools we are building how do we measure its success?

Regards

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 5:47 PM Rahul Bothra  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 7:44 PM Amaan Iqbal 
> wrote:
> > I see we only have 6 projects so far in our Ideas list in comparison to
> 11
> > which were selected in GSoC last year. Being a successful Open Source
> > organization, I sincerely hope we have the potential of having many more
> > projects in GSoC this year(most probably 15+ if we can come up with
> > such promising ideas).
>
> We had 12 projects last year, out of which 1 was failed officially. Many
> projects failed to deliver what was expected out of them, including my
> own.
> Some projects did not involve improving our tools, Sugar Desktop,
> Activities,
> MusicBlocks or Sugarizer, and did add any value to the organisation.
> This was primarily because we had more projects than we could handle,
> and that some projects were not effectively groomed and mentored.
>
> I don't know what a "successful Open Source organisation" means. But I
> don't think we should release more ideas than we can mentor. Having less
> projects does not imply our failure in any sense, lack of existing
> contributors
> might indicate that.
>
> > Here I would suggest an idea for the renovation of our Website, blog
> , and
> > creation of a customized/integration of existing CMS to our website from
> > where admins can create articles directly.
>
> FWIW, our current website was also implemented as a GSoC Project. I
> don't think it will improve our tools, or if it will actually be
> completed. Past
> examples show that development of such tools (Sugar Social, ASLO v3)
> never got into deployment at the end.
>
> Even if we add a project for improving the website, 2 years down the line
> we might again face a similar email pointing out the drawbacks of the new
> model and another revamping of the website.
>
> Although I would be happy to see contributions made to improve the
> website, I am not in favor of adding this as a GSoC Project.
> FYI, there are plans of A/B testing of the website, though I don't know the
> current status.
>
> Thanks,
> Rahul
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>


-- 
---
Oversight Board Member at Sugar Labs
___
Sugar-devel mailing list
Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestions for GSoC 2019

[Rahul Bothra]

Hello,

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 7:44 PM Amaan Iqbal 
wrote:
> I see we only have 6 projects so far in our Ideas list in comparison to
11
> which were selected in GSoC last year. Being a successful Open Source
> organization, I sincerely hope we have the potential of having many more
> projects in GSoC this year(most probably 15+ if we can come up with
> such promising ideas).

We had 12 projects last year, out of which 1 was failed officially. Many
projects failed to deliver what was expected out of them, including my own.
Some projects did not involve improving our tools, Sugar Desktop,
Activities,
MusicBlocks or Sugarizer, and did add any value to the organisation.
This was primarily because we had more projects than we could handle,
and that some projects were not effectively groomed and mentored.

I don't know what a "successful Open Source organisation" means. But I
don't think we should release more ideas than we can mentor. Having less
projects does not imply our failure in any sense, lack of existing
contributors
might indicate that.

> Here I would suggest an idea for the renovation of our Website, blog
, and
> creation of a customized/integration of existing CMS to our website from
> where admins can create articles directly.

FWIW, our current website was also implemented as a GSoC Project. I
don't think it will improve our tools, or if it will actually be completed.
Past
examples show that development of such tools (Sugar Social, ASLO v3)
never got into deployment at the end.

Even if we add a project for improving the website, 2 years down the line
we might again face a similar email pointing out the drawbacks of the new
model and another revamping of the website.

Although I would be happy to see contributions made to improve the
website, I am not in favor of adding this as a GSoC Project.
FYI, there are plans of A/B testing of the website, though I don't know the
current status.

Thanks,
Rahul
___
Sugar-devel mailing list
Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

[Sugar-devel] Suggestions for GSoC 2019

[Amaan Iqbal]

Hello,

I see we only have 6 projects so far in our Ideas list in comparison to 11
which were selected in GSoC last year. Being a successful Open Source
organization, I sincerely hope we have the potential of having many more
projects in GSoC this year(most probably 15+ if we can come up with such
promising ideas).

Here I would suggest an idea for the renovation of our Website, blog
, and creation of a customized/integration of
existing CMS to our website from where admins can create articles directly.
Also some other web pages can also be added to this list if I am missing
something. The end product will be expected to have :

   - Material Designed
   - no/minimal redundancies in code
   - faster load time
   - Use of latest website standards
   - Wider reach in terms of accessibility
   - Faster and easier updates from the admins to the website
   - Elimination of device specific issues
   - Removal of most of the issues on www-sugarlabs
   
   - Easy setup for a new contributor


After mentoring for few design tasks in GCI and collaborating with several
pull requests I found that the website was mostly constructed with many
components placed forcefully in their places including a search box in the
navbar, such that website looks somehow decent. But the design is not at
all generic and so as a result there use to be many small issues with looks
and behavior of components on different devices. Also, the website is not
updated to the latest web standards.

Further, publicity in the best way with appropriate accessibility
 of the
website is important for any organization and I sincerely hope this idea
has that potential.

Looking forward to hearing your opinion on this before sending a Pull
Request on the GSoC ideas list.



Regards,
Amaan
___
Sugar-devel mailing list
Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities

[Walter Bender]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 3:44 AM James Cameron  wrote:

> Fascinating, I never thought the move to GitHub was ever going to
> achieve all that.  It was to enable a shutdown of the unmaintained
> gitorious instance at git.sugarlabs.org.  Which still hasn't happened
> because it is still useful, in turn because this community hasn't the
> time to do the necessary leg work to finish the move to GitHub.
>
>
I would be curious what is still on Gitorious that hasn't been migrated.

FWIW, my principle motivations for the move were (1) as James points out --
on less piece of infrastructure for us to maintain; and (2) GitHub for
better or worse is much more familiar to and likely to be discovered by
potential developers. I think GH has been a decent tool which requires
minimal effort on our part. Not sure that the latter really amounts to too
much.

Re Tony's point about the ownership model, I don't see that anything we are
doing suggests we don't want to continue to support individual
contributions. I interpreted James's list not as a matter of ownership but
rather a surfacing of what is actually happening re maintenance. In some
sense, what is being articulated is the equivalent of the Fructose vs Honey
nomenclature of the past where the core developers are saying: "These
activities will be maintained. Cannot speak for everything else."

That said, I think Tony makes a great point re thinking about the
pedagogical implications of our choices, which have had little if any input
from the learning side of the house. Would be great to get more input to
help us in regard to what is most valuable to our users (whether they know
it or not). @Tony Anderson  would be great if you
could rework you thoughts about Python into a GSoC idea.

regards.

-walter


> In short, it has nothing to do with the tools, and everything to do
> with contributors.
>
> I'll continue to focus on the activities I've got on my list.  That
> doesn't mean I won't help with the other activities, but I won't
> necessarily spend as much time with the others.
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 09:12:01AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
> > While it is marvelous to see some actual attention to the Sugar
> activities,
> > this approach is the direct opposite of the logic behind the move of the
> > activities to gitHub. This is a return to the G1G1 model in which
> individuals
> > develop, contribute and own activities. There can be no abandoned or
> orphaned
> > activities in a community support model.
> >
> > It was recognized by Walter and others that there were two factors which
> made
> > that ownership model unworkable. First, changes in Sugar software
> support such
> > as the move to GTK3 made common changes to all activities necessary and,
> > second, that many of the original contributors are no longer involved
> with
> > Sugar.
> >
> > GitHub was touted as the way in which Sugar Labs as a community would
> support
> > Sugar and its library of activities. However, in practice support for
> > activities has become increasingly limited to a small number of ones
> selected
> > for inclusion in the 13.2 series of builds.
> >
> > The Sugar activities library is made available to our users via ASLO.
> > Unfortunately, there are activities with new versions in gitHub which
> have not
> > been released to ASLO and thus are unknown to our users. There is even
> > confusion over which 'github'. It has to be kept clear that developers
> can use
> > any method they chose. What is controlled is the repository on gitHub.
> Any
> > changes outside of the Sugar Labs github are invisible until they are
> submitted
> > as a new version.
> >
> > Educational intent
> >
> > What I would like to see is a return to the founding philosophy of Sugar.
> > Everyone is welcome to contribute. When you get 10 lines of code working,
> > submit your activity. Sugar is designed to provide all the software tools
> > needed to develop activities in Sugar - no cross-development,
> containers, or
> > virtual environments. Instead of requesting new contributors to
> demonstrate
> > their technical proficiency by putting their name on the XO icon in the
> Home
> > View, identify some real examples of changes that would improve Sugar.
> There
> > are plenty available:
> >
> > Fix the icons on 'my settings' so they are visible instead of switching
> to
> > gnome by clicking on the big toe.
> > When you take a screenshot and switch to the Journal to give it a title,
> you
> > must use the Frame to return, not the Activity key.
> > The kids love the ability to customize their laptop with a background
> picture.
> > Unfortunately this often makes the icons in the Home View invisible.
> > Add Jupyter Notebook as a built-in capability of Sugar (possibly as a
> service
> > of Browse).
> > Help solve problems with a long list of activities (such as the lack of
> sound
> > in Block Party).
> > Find a way for Browse to support the css FlexBox.
> >
> > Stop using Pippy as a ceiling to our users learning t

Re: [Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, James

This is a disagreement with Walter from day one. ASLO is a means to 
maintain the library of Sugar activities in use for nearly a decade. 
Introducing gitHub created an obstacle for our users as contributors. 
Another disagreement I have with Walter is the concept of replacing 
ASLO. This has been tried more than once without meeting the test of 
providing something better. The reasns I mentioned were the ones Walter 
offered in justification of the change.


Gitorious was not a part of the conversation because it was never part 
of the ASLO process. You may remember my faux pas in trying to assist in 
the transition  to gitHub. As I see the process proposed by Walter, each 
activity on ASLO, should have a corresponding repository on Sugar Labs 
gitHub. Contributors should submit new versions of activities as Pull 
Requests. These submissions should be reviewed and tested by Sugar users 
before release. When released, the new versions should be put on ASLO 
for use by our community. There is nothing in this process that requires 
(or should require) a contributor to use gitHub, gitorious or, indeed, 
any version control system. The version control comes through the 
submission process. Certainly, no developer should develop on SugarLabs 
github. It should only see Pull Requests reflecting new versions. 
Naturally this process is essentially different from that which applies 
to Sugar development.


Tony


On 1/21/19 10:44 AM, James Cameron wrote:

Fascinating, I never thought the move to GitHub was ever going to
achieve all that.  It was to enable a shutdown of the unmaintained
gitorious instance at git.sugarlabs.org.  Which still hasn't happened
because it is still useful, in turn because this community hasn't the
time to do the necessary leg work to finish the move to GitHub.

In short, it has nothing to do with the tools, and everything to do
with contributors.

I'll continue to focus on the activities I've got on my list.  That
doesn't mean I won't help with the other activities, but I won't
necessarily spend as much time with the others.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 09:12:01AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:

While it is marvelous to see some actual attention to the Sugar activities,
this approach is the direct opposite of the logic behind the move of the
activities to gitHub. This is a return to the G1G1 model in which individuals
develop, contribute and own activities. There can be no abandoned or orphaned
activities in a community support model.

It was recognized by Walter and others that there were two factors which made
that ownership model unworkable. First, changes in Sugar software support such
as the move to GTK3 made common changes to all activities necessary and,
second, that many of the original contributors are no longer involved with
Sugar.

GitHub was touted as the way in which Sugar Labs as a community would support
Sugar and its library of activities. However, in practice support for
activities has become increasingly limited to a small number of ones selected
for inclusion in the 13.2 series of builds.

The Sugar activities library is made available to our users via ASLO.
Unfortunately, there are activities with new versions in gitHub which have not
been released to ASLO and thus are unknown to our users. There is even
confusion over which 'github'. It has to be kept clear that developers can use
any method they chose. What is controlled is the repository on gitHub. Any
changes outside of the Sugar Labs github are invisible until they are submitted
as a new version.

Educational intent

What I would like to see is a return to the founding philosophy of Sugar.
Everyone is welcome to contribute. When you get 10 lines of code working,
submit your activity. Sugar is designed to provide all the software tools
needed to develop activities in Sugar - no cross-development, containers, or
virtual environments. Instead of requesting new contributors to demonstrate
their technical proficiency by putting their name on the XO icon in the Home
View, identify some real examples of changes that would improve Sugar. There
are plenty available:

Fix the icons on 'my settings' so they are visible instead of switching to
gnome by clicking on the big toe.
When you take a screenshot and switch to the Journal to give it a title, you
must use the Frame to return, not the Activity key.
The kids love the ability to customize their laptop with a background picture.
Unfortunately this often makes the icons in the Home View invisible.
Add Jupyter Notebook as a built-in capability of Sugar (possibly as a service
of Browse).
Help solve problems with a long list of activities (such as the lack of sound
in Block Party).
Find a way for Browse to support the css FlexBox.

Stop using Pippy as a ceiling to our users learning to program in Python. They
can work up to 'Make your own Sugar Activities'.  Start with the Hello World
activity. Explain GTK and its benefits. PyDebug provides recipes for many
common coding s

[Sugar-devel] [Announcement] Sugarizer v1.1 is available for your device

[Lionel Laské]

Hi all,



I'm proud to announce the version 1.1 of Sugarizer, a taste of Sugar for
any device.



http://sugarizer.org



New in this winter Sugarizer version:

   - MacOS: Sugarizer is now available as a native MacOS application. You
   could download the DMG package here [10].
   - Linux: Sugarizer is now available as a Linux application. It could be
   installed on any distribution using a deb or AppImage package downloadable
   here [10] or installed from the snapcraft app store here [6].
   - Journal improvements:
  - Add a sort palette: sort by creation date, modified date or item
  size
  - Device to Journal integration: copy directly image/content from
  your device to the journal or download journal content on your device
  - Action to multiple items: remove or copy multiple items at the same
  time
   - Full help tutorial: step by step tutorial from the initial screen,
   description of each activity in list view.
   - Ebook Reader activity: An epub reader into Sugarizer, access to a full
   library of classical books for children directly from your device.
   - Exerciser activity: Never been so easy to create your set of questions
   (MCQ, Cloze Text, ...) and share it with your friends.
   - Sprint Math activity: Challenge yourself on mental arithmetic or play
   with other users through the network.
   - Full offline version of Scratch: handle backgrounds, sounds and
   costumes from into Scratch source code without an Internet connection.
   - Better custom color integration: more activities (Speak, TamTam, Video
   Viewer, …) now take into account the buddy color. Your colors are your flag!
   - Better presence integration: more activities (Last One Loses, Maze, …)
   now could be shared on the network.
   - Better Journal integration: more activities (Blockrain, Stopwatch,
   Speak, QRCode, …) now save their state into Journal.
   - Improved stability: more than 20 fix on Sugarizer and activities.





A short animation of these features is visible here:
https://sugarizer.org/download/Sugarizer_v1.1.gif.



Three new schools will deploy Sugarizer in the begining of this year, why
not your school?



Sugarizer 1.1  is available on your browser [1] but also for your Android,
iOS, Linux, MacOS or Windows device. Download it from : Google Play [2],
Amazon Store [3], Apple Store [4], F-droid [5], snapcraft [6] and if you
don't like stores, you could also install it by yourself using instructions
on the Sugarizer website [7].

On Android, Sugarizer could also replace your launcher with Sugarizer OS
[8].

And if you want to deploy Sugarizer Server for your school, follow
instructions here [9].



   Lionel.





P.S.: Special thanks for their contribution on this version to Mankirat
Singh (Exerciser and SprintMath activity), Paulo Francisco Slomp
(Portuguese localization) and to all GCI students for their contributions,
specifically FreddieN, AndreaGon and EmilyOng.



[1] http://try.sugarizer.org

[2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.olpc_france.sugarizer

[3] http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NKK7PZA

[4] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sugarizer/id978495303

[5] https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=org.olpc_france.sugarizer

[6] https://snapcraft.io/sugarizer

[7] https://sugarizer.org

[8]
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.olpc_france.sugarizeros

[9] https://github.com/llaske/sugarizer-server

[10] https://sugarizer.org#desktop
___
Sugar-devel mailing list
Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities

[James Cameron]

Fascinating, I never thought the move to GitHub was ever going to
achieve all that.  It was to enable a shutdown of the unmaintained
gitorious instance at git.sugarlabs.org.  Which still hasn't happened
because it is still useful, in turn because this community hasn't the
time to do the necessary leg work to finish the move to GitHub.

In short, it has nothing to do with the tools, and everything to do
with contributors.

I'll continue to focus on the activities I've got on my list.  That
doesn't mean I won't help with the other activities, but I won't
necessarily spend as much time with the others.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 09:12:01AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
> While it is marvelous to see some actual attention to the Sugar activities,
> this approach is the direct opposite of the logic behind the move of the
> activities to gitHub. This is a return to the G1G1 model in which individuals
> develop, contribute and own activities. There can be no abandoned or orphaned
> activities in a community support model.
> 
> It was recognized by Walter and others that there were two factors which made
> that ownership model unworkable. First, changes in Sugar software support such
> as the move to GTK3 made common changes to all activities necessary and,
> second, that many of the original contributors are no longer involved with
> Sugar.
> 
> GitHub was touted as the way in which Sugar Labs as a community would support
> Sugar and its library of activities. However, in practice support for
> activities has become increasingly limited to a small number of ones selected
> for inclusion in the 13.2 series of builds.
> 
> The Sugar activities library is made available to our users via ASLO.
> Unfortunately, there are activities with new versions in gitHub which have not
> been released to ASLO and thus are unknown to our users. There is even
> confusion over which 'github'. It has to be kept clear that developers can use
> any method they chose. What is controlled is the repository on gitHub. Any
> changes outside of the Sugar Labs github are invisible until they are 
> submitted
> as a new version.
> 
> Educational intent
> 
> What I would like to see is a return to the founding philosophy of Sugar.
> Everyone is welcome to contribute. When you get 10 lines of code working,
> submit your activity. Sugar is designed to provide all the software tools
> needed to develop activities in Sugar - no cross-development, containers, or
> virtual environments. Instead of requesting new contributors to demonstrate
> their technical proficiency by putting their name on the XO icon in the Home
> View, identify some real examples of changes that would improve Sugar. There
> are plenty available:
> 
> Fix the icons on 'my settings' so they are visible instead of switching to
> gnome by clicking on the big toe.
> When you take a screenshot and switch to the Journal to give it a title, you
> must use the Frame to return, not the Activity key.
> The kids love the ability to customize their laptop with a background picture.
> Unfortunately this often makes the icons in the Home View invisible.
> Add Jupyter Notebook as a built-in capability of Sugar (possibly as a service
> of Browse).
> Help solve problems with a long list of activities (such as the lack of sound
> in Block Party).
> Find a way for Browse to support the css FlexBox.
> 
> Stop using Pippy as a ceiling to our users learning to program in Python. They
> can work up to 'Make your own Sugar Activities'.  Start with the Hello World
> activity. Explain GTK and its benefits. PyDebug provides recipes for many
> common coding situations. Stop hiding the Terminal and Log activities - try to
> encourage them to become favorites. Soon we could see a new generation of
> user-programmers as we did in Uruguay.
> 
> Along this theme, we should embrace the RPI and its compatriots as a way to
> make embedded computing tangible. It would not be difficult to connect such a
> device via the Ad Hoc network so that it could be used to transfer a program
> written on an XO to the device and execute it with the user seeing the results
> on LEDs (e.g. Sense Hat).
> 
> Tony
> 
> On 1/20/19 3:48 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
> 
> I noticed Dimensions fell off the list. I will take that one on as I think
> it is of real value.
> 
> -walter
> 
> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 8:44 AM James Cameron <[1]qu...@laptop.org> wrote:
> 
> Thanks.  So the list looks like;
> 
> # Walter Bender
> 
> * Music Blocks,
> * Turtle Blocks JS,
> 
> # Rahul Bothra
> 
> * CowBulls,
> * Flappy,
> * Cedit,
> * Polari,
> 
> # James Cameron
> 
> * Abacus,
> * Browse (master),
> * Browse (fedora 18 - webkit - v157.x),
> * Calculator,
> * Chart,
> * Chat,
> * Clock,
> * Develop,
> * Distance,
> * Finance,
> * Find Words,
> * Fototoon,
> * F