Re: [Sugar-devel] [Sur] [IAEP] Sugar oversight board meeting
David - what I meant was, no strategic partnership between the distros. Ubuntu wouldn't pose so many difficulties if M. Shuttleworth/Canonical got behind Sugar for example. Sean On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:46 AM, David Farning dfarn...@activitycentral.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:07 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sorry Sebastian, yes I should have been more clear about which Sebastian :-) At the time, Sugar was perceived as being only available on OLPC XOs, so our effort was designed to show that it was available for other platforms. Indeed, our claim has always been that it was hardware-agnostic (on Mac using virtualization), cf. our press releases (sl.o/press). And, SoaS as a marketing concept was meant to be distro-agnostic too (SuSE...), a position fought tooth and nail by the Fedorans by the way. Pre-tablets, when small netbooks sales were exploding, Windows was dominant on PCs but ran poorly or not at all on netbooks and moreover there was an installation barrier for Windows on GNU/Linux netbooks. We were interested in reaching the 92% or so of teachers using Windows and widening Sugar availability on machines with pre-installed GNU/Linux (all 2% or so of them). Microsoft and Intel worked quickly to block GNU/Linux netbooks by pressuring OEMs to build faster machines, then tablets arrived and killed off netbooks. It's unfortunate that Sugar was not fully embraced by the GNU/Linux distros who missed a great opportunity in the education market where Microsoft had and has weaknesses, but that has been a symptom of free software projects struggling with strategic initiatives while concentrating on technical aspects. How does Sugar on Ubuntu (DXU) and Sugar on Tablets (DX experimental) affect this equation for Sugar Labs? Dismal marketing has contributed to dismal desktop market share (Microsoft's well-documented maneuvers played a role too of course). Installation: As Peter has mentioned, SoaS can be used for installation on a target PC, this is documented in the wiki. Concerning translations, language selection was available in at least several versions of SoaS, I remember switching French and US locale and keyboard demoing SoaS at an Educatec-Educatice convention in Paris. I have no doubt that solutions are possible, but do remember that Peter has been continuing SoaS work singlehandedly for some time now. Looking forward, I see a dual challenge for Sugar Labs: supporting the XO installed base (including hopefully keeping XO-4 availability alive), and transitioning to the wild new world of handheld devices. Sean On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Sebastian Silva sebast...@fuentelibre.org wrote: El 06/11/13 17:35, Sean DALY escribió: On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: But you have for a long time refused to actually even market SoaS! That's right, at the time SoaS became an official Fedora spin, Mel and Sebastian decided to take over marketing, which included coming up with unmarketable names, linking with Fedora announcements, and opening a Fedora hosted minisite (the home of SoaS), none of which was done with any consultation of the SL marketing team. Please try to include last names, you mean Sebastian Dzallas, original developer of Sugar On A Stick. Now that we're on the topic... the concept Sugar On A Stick has several problems. 1.- It suggests it's the only possible Sugar OS on a USB. 2.- It suggests it's not a serious OS to be installed on a computer. 3.- It's impossible to translate. 4.- It suggests it's not regular GNU/Linux, with availability of the Myriad other GNU/Linux educational tools. Regards, Sebastian Silva R+D SomosAzúcar Sugar Labs Perú @icarito ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Sur] [IAEP] Sugar oversight board meeting
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: David - what I meant was, no strategic partnership between the distros. Ubuntu wouldn't pose so many difficulties if M. Shuttleworth/Canonical got behind Sugar for example. In my conversations with Shuttleworth and Redhat they were both pretty upset that they were forced to bid against each other to be part of the OLPC project. Whoever donated more got to be part of the project the other was ignored. That, on top of Ubuntu's screw ups in the education sector ( Canoncial, tried to assume too much control over the community lead Edubuntu project) have left education, and sugar in particular, struggling at Ubuntu. Sean On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:46 AM, David Farning dfarn...@activitycentral.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:07 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sorry Sebastian, yes I should have been more clear about which Sebastian :-) At the time, Sugar was perceived as being only available on OLPC XOs, so our effort was designed to show that it was available for other platforms. Indeed, our claim has always been that it was hardware-agnostic (on Mac using virtualization), cf. our press releases (sl.o/press). And, SoaS as a marketing concept was meant to be distro-agnostic too (SuSE...), a position fought tooth and nail by the Fedorans by the way. Pre-tablets, when small netbooks sales were exploding, Windows was dominant on PCs but ran poorly or not at all on netbooks and moreover there was an installation barrier for Windows on GNU/Linux netbooks. We were interested in reaching the 92% or so of teachers using Windows and widening Sugar availability on machines with pre-installed GNU/Linux (all 2% or so of them). Microsoft and Intel worked quickly to block GNU/Linux netbooks by pressuring OEMs to build faster machines, then tablets arrived and killed off netbooks. It's unfortunate that Sugar was not fully embraced by the GNU/Linux distros who missed a great opportunity in the education market where Microsoft had and has weaknesses, but that has been a symptom of free software projects struggling with strategic initiatives while concentrating on technical aspects. How does Sugar on Ubuntu (DXU) and Sugar on Tablets (DX experimental) affect this equation for Sugar Labs? Dismal marketing has contributed to dismal desktop market share (Microsoft's well-documented maneuvers played a role too of course). Installation: As Peter has mentioned, SoaS can be used for installation on a target PC, this is documented in the wiki. Concerning translations, language selection was available in at least several versions of SoaS, I remember switching French and US locale and keyboard demoing SoaS at an Educatec-Educatice convention in Paris. I have no doubt that solutions are possible, but do remember that Peter has been continuing SoaS work singlehandedly for some time now. Looking forward, I see a dual challenge for Sugar Labs: supporting the XO installed base (including hopefully keeping XO-4 availability alive), and transitioning to the wild new world of handheld devices. Sean On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Sebastian Silva sebast...@fuentelibre.org wrote: El 06/11/13 17:35, Sean DALY escribió: On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: But you have for a long time refused to actually even market SoaS! That's right, at the time SoaS became an official Fedora spin, Mel and Sebastian decided to take over marketing, which included coming up with unmarketable names, linking with Fedora announcements, and opening a Fedora hosted minisite (the home of SoaS), none of which was done with any consultation of the SL marketing team. Please try to include last names, you mean Sebastian Dzallas, original developer of Sugar On A Stick. Now that we're on the topic... the concept Sugar On A Stick has several problems. 1.- It suggests it's the only possible Sugar OS on a USB. 2.- It suggests it's not a serious OS to be installed on a computer. 3.- It's impossible to translate. 4.- It suggests it's not regular GNU/Linux, with availability of the Myriad other GNU/Linux educational tools. Regards, Sebastian Silva R+D SomosAzúcar Sugar Labs Perú @icarito ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Sur] [IAEP] Sugar oversight board meeting
I'm sorry Sebastian, yes I should have been more clear about which Sebastian :-) At the time, Sugar was perceived as being only available on OLPC XOs, so our effort was designed to show that it was available for other platforms. Indeed, our claim has always been that it was hardware-agnostic (on Mac using virtualization), cf. our press releases (sl.o/press). And, SoaS as a marketing concept was meant to be distro-agnostic too (SuSE...), a position fought tooth and nail by the Fedorans by the way. Pre-tablets, when small netbooks sales were exploding, Windows was dominant on PCs but ran poorly or not at all on netbooks and moreover there was an installation barrier for Windows on GNU/Linux netbooks. We were interested in reaching the 92% or so of teachers using Windows and widening Sugar availability on machines with pre-installed GNU/Linux (all 2% or so of them). Microsoft and Intel worked quickly to block GNU/Linux netbooks by pressuring OEMs to build faster machines, then tablets arrived and killed off netbooks. It's unfortunate that Sugar was not fully embraced by the GNU/Linux distros who missed a great opportunity in the education market where Microsoft had and has weaknesses, but that has been a symptom of free software projects struggling with strategic initiatives while concentrating on technical aspects. Dismal marketing has contributed to dismal desktop market share (Microsoft's well-documented maneuvers played a role too of course). Installation: As Peter has mentioned, SoaS can be used for installation on a target PC, this is documented in the wiki. Concerning translations, language selection was available in at least several versions of SoaS, I remember switching French and US locale and keyboard demoing SoaS at an Educatec-Educatice convention in Paris. I have no doubt that solutions are possible, but do remember that Peter has been continuing SoaS work singlehandedly for some time now. Looking forward, I see a dual challenge for Sugar Labs: supporting the XO installed base (including hopefully keeping XO-4 availability alive), and transitioning to the wild new world of handheld devices. Sean On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Sebastian Silva sebast...@fuentelibre.orgwrote: El 06/11/13 17:35, Sean DALY escribió: On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.comwrote: But you have for a long time refused to actually even market SoaS! That's right, at the time SoaS became an official Fedora spin, Mel and Sebastian decided to take over marketing, which included coming up with unmarketable names, linking with Fedora announcements, and opening a Fedora hosted minisite (the home of SoaS), none of which was done with any consultation of the SL marketing team. Please try to include last names, you mean Sebastian Dzallas, original developer of Sugar On A Stick. Now that we're on the topic... the concept Sugar On A Stick has several problems. 1.- It suggests it's the only possible Sugar OS on a USB. 2.- It suggests it's not a serious OS to be installed on a computer. 3.- It's impossible to translate. 4.- It suggests it's not regular GNU/Linux, with availability of the Myriad other GNU/Linux educational tools. Regards, Sebastian Silva R+D SomosAzúcar Sugar Labs Perú @icarito ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Sur] [IAEP] Sugar oversight board meeting
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:07 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sorry Sebastian, yes I should have been more clear about which Sebastian :-) At the time, Sugar was perceived as being only available on OLPC XOs, so our effort was designed to show that it was available for other platforms. Indeed, our claim has always been that it was hardware-agnostic (on Mac using virtualization), cf. our press releases (sl.o/press). And, SoaS as a marketing concept was meant to be distro-agnostic too (SuSE...), a position fought tooth and nail by the Fedorans by the way. Pre-tablets, when small netbooks sales were exploding, Windows was dominant on PCs but ran poorly or not at all on netbooks and moreover there was an installation barrier for Windows on GNU/Linux netbooks. We were interested in reaching the 92% or so of teachers using Windows and widening Sugar availability on machines with pre-installed GNU/Linux (all 2% or so of them). Microsoft and Intel worked quickly to block GNU/Linux netbooks by pressuring OEMs to build faster machines, then tablets arrived and killed off netbooks. It's unfortunate that Sugar was not fully embraced by the GNU/Linux distros who missed a great opportunity in the education market where Microsoft had and has weaknesses, but that has been a symptom of free software projects struggling with strategic initiatives while concentrating on technical aspects. How does Sugar on Ubuntu (DXU) and Sugar on Tablets (DX experimental) affect this equation for Sugar Labs? Dismal marketing has contributed to dismal desktop market share (Microsoft's well-documented maneuvers played a role too of course). Installation: As Peter has mentioned, SoaS can be used for installation on a target PC, this is documented in the wiki. Concerning translations, language selection was available in at least several versions of SoaS, I remember switching French and US locale and keyboard demoing SoaS at an Educatec-Educatice convention in Paris. I have no doubt that solutions are possible, but do remember that Peter has been continuing SoaS work singlehandedly for some time now. Looking forward, I see a dual challenge for Sugar Labs: supporting the XO installed base (including hopefully keeping XO-4 availability alive), and transitioning to the wild new world of handheld devices. Sean On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Sebastian Silva sebast...@fuentelibre.org wrote: El 06/11/13 17:35, Sean DALY escribió: On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: But you have for a long time refused to actually even market SoaS! That's right, at the time SoaS became an official Fedora spin, Mel and Sebastian decided to take over marketing, which included coming up with unmarketable names, linking with Fedora announcements, and opening a Fedora hosted minisite (the home of SoaS), none of which was done with any consultation of the SL marketing team. Please try to include last names, you mean Sebastian Dzallas, original developer of Sugar On A Stick. Now that we're on the topic... the concept Sugar On A Stick has several problems. 1.- It suggests it's the only possible Sugar OS on a USB. 2.- It suggests it's not a serious OS to be installed on a computer. 3.- It's impossible to translate. 4.- It suggests it's not regular GNU/Linux, with availability of the Myriad other GNU/Linux educational tools. Regards, Sebastian Silva R+D SomosAzúcar Sugar Labs Perú @icarito ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Sur] [IAEP] Sugar oversight board meeting
El 06/11/13 17:35, Sean DALY escribió: On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com mailto:pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: But you have for a long time refused to actually even market SoaS! That's right, at the time SoaS became an official Fedora spin, Mel and Sebastian decided to take over marketing, which included coming up with unmarketable names, linking with Fedora announcements, and opening a Fedora hosted minisite (the home of SoaS), none of which was done with any consultation of the SL marketing team. Please try to include last names, you mean Sebastian Dzallas, original developer of Sugar On A Stick. Now that we're on the topic... the concept Sugar On A Stick has several problems. 1.- It suggests it's the only possible Sugar OS on a USB. 2.- It suggests it's not a serious OS to be installed on a computer. 3.- It's impossible to translate. 4.- It suggests it's not regular GNU/Linux, with availability of the Myriad other GNU/Linux educational tools. Regards, Sebastian Silva R+D SomosAzúcar Sugar Labs Perú @icarito ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
