Re: [Sugar-devel] SoAS Testing with XS
It was worth a try but I see exactly the same behavior on the media lab jabber server. One thing I think I am noticing. It seems like one machine at a time is connected to the Jabber Server. What happens when a machine connects? Is there anyway that one machine connecting could cause another to disconnect? Are these machines in some way replicating something about them when the server things it should be unique? Could there be some sort of firewall or a caching service that decides its a duplicate and cuts one of them off? On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: Caroline Meeks wrote: 1. Fix Jabber collaboration - We have a mysterious bug (that is also being worked on in parallel) that keeps dropping the connection to the externally hosted Jabber Server (jabber.sl.org) That's irritating. Have you tried other servers? For example, schoolserver.media.mit.edu has been very reliable for me. OLPC ran collaboration jabber servers for very large numbers of people following G1G1, and the only major problem was server overload (when serving far more than 18 users). It is possible, and maybe the people who built those servers have some advice. --Ben -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoAS Testing with XS
To follow up on an off list discussion with Martin. The OLPC use case assumes top down support. OLPC perfers to sell in bulk to Governments. Sugar on a Stick complements this with a bottom up approach. Thus our use case is how can we support a teacher with some computers in their room but perhaps not even the administrative password to their computers and no support from central IT. Also we want to support schools that have a computer lab, but again no support from central IT. Our goal is that early adopter teachers, perhaps with geek parental support, can try and prove the worth of Sugar and it will then be adopted more widely in that school district. So in our use case we can't get any entries into the existing DNS. We realize this is not the use case that the XS was designed for but we believe it to be an interesting and important use case so we are exploring what we can do. Specifically for the GPA We have 18 computers. Wired to the internet, we don't know the details. We are trying to bring in another computer, install the XS for it and put it beside the existing computers. For this summer we would be thrilled if we could get the computer lab collaborating in anyway and see three paths that might lead us to success. 1. Fix Jabber collaboration - We have a mysterious bug (that is also being worked on in parallel) that keeps dropping the connection to the externally hosted Jabber Server (jabber.sl.org) and we wondered if a local XS would work better. 2. Fix Salut collaboration - We also have a bug that other wired computers also running Salut only see each other occasionally. 3. Get a local XS working and hope that it dosn't have the same bug that kills the external jabber connection Basically current behavior is maddeningly random. To me Solid collaboration would mean we had 3 working options to choose from and a UI that let me set which one I wanted to use and let me see which one a specific machine was using. Thanks! On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Greg Smith gregsmit...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Caroline et al, That helps. I noted four possible network configuration here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Goals#Solid_Collaboration I have to warn you that this is very hard area. It reminds me of trying to catch minnows in Herring Pond with my son. You scoop the bucket in to a school of them but they always slip away by the time you pull it out of the water. Here's one of my previous attempts to snare the slippery fish: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0_Collaboration_Requirements That said, taking out the wireless variable will really help! How about we write down a set of use cases from user, GUI interaction level. These can turn in to test cases. Here's one basic one: Environment: - 10 or fewer Sugar computers collaborating locally on a LAN no server (case 1 from Goals page). - LAN includes Hub (no switch?) Use case: - All computers boot up (any configurations/setting needed?) - All computers see each other in the network neighborhood - One computer starts the chat activity - Other computers see the chat in the network neighborhood and join - All 10 can chat at the same time. What other details is that case missing? SW version numbers and computer HW? If we write down a few simple cases which we can reproduce quickly that will help. To support the server cases, I think we need two test servers (one for in school and one on internet). We also need 1 - 3 adventurous sys admins to help manage them. I'll ask around but I don't know anyone for sure. Anyone on the list want to help? Doesn't have to be local to Boston but we could use ~10 hours/week and experience locking down/protecting public servers. The high level goal is to have test beds in support of GPA. Caroline is in charge of interaction with the school IT department and anything actually in the school. The additional servers and admins are to mirror that, run tests and validate configurations as needed. Sort of a tier two plus bleeding edge type support. Thanks, Greg S Caroline, The long term goal is that students at GPA can collaborate with each other from school and home. Thus long term we need a Jabber server and a machine connected to the internet. We could host it at Solution Grove or physically locate it at the school. I think learning about the tradeoffs between these approaches is one of our goals for the pilot. For this summer if we got collaboration working locally in the Computer Room we'd have a better experience then the current no collaboration. We have an extra computer we can use as an XS. I'll need to buy/scavange another network card. Does that help? Thanks, Caroline Can you confirm the target implementation for GPA is SoAS computers collaborating with each other via Jabber? There are so many sub-components to this section of SW that we will need your
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoAS Testing with XS
Caroline Meeks wrote: 1. Fix Jabber collaboration - We have a mysterious bug (that is also being worked on in parallel) that keeps dropping the connection to the externally hosted Jabber Server (jabber.sl.org) That's irritating. Have you tried other servers? For example, schoolserver.media.mit.edu has been very reliable for me. OLPC ran collaboration jabber servers for very large numbers of people following G1G1, and the only major problem was server overload (when serving far more than 18 users). It is possible, and maybe the people who built those servers have some advice. --Ben signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoAS Testing with XS
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: Caroline Meeks wrote: 1. Fix Jabber collaboration - We have a mysterious bug (that is also being worked on in parallel) that keeps dropping the connection to the externally hosted Jabber Server (jabber.sl.org) That's irritating. Have you tried other servers? For example, schoolserver.media.mit.edu has been very reliable for me. No actually I haven;t. since we did not have problem using that server outside of GPA I didn't think of it. But your right. Its definitely worth a try and easy to do. I will report tomorrow on the results. Thanks OLPC ran collaboration jabber servers for very large numbers of people following G1G1, and the only major problem was server overload (when serving far more than 18 users). It is possible, and maybe the people who built those servers have some advice. --Ben -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoAS Testing with XS
On 9 Jul 2009, at 00:13, Caroline Meeks wrote: Specifically for the GPA We have 18 computers. Wired to the internet, we don't know the details. We are trying to bring in another computer, install the XS for it and put it beside the existing computers. For this summer we would be thrilled if we could get the computer lab collaborating in anyway and see three paths that might lead us to success. • Fix Jabber collaboration - We have a mysterious bug (that is also being worked on in parallel) that keeps dropping the connection to the externally hosted Jabber Server (jabber.sl.org) and we wondered if a local XS would work better. To me that sounds like the school is (perhaps wisely) blocking ports they think are unnecessary for security reasons in a school full of Windows based machines. Are any of your own machines showing stable connection to jabber.sl.org while on their network? If it is port blocking at the school, there are some tricks that allow you to redirect arbitrary traffic over an open port (likely port 80 for http if the school is allowing direct internet access), but you'd need to tweak each Soas install and the remote server running jabber. And there's still the chance that the school filtering might be more advanced and be introspecting and filtering packets at a lower level than just port numbers. Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoAS Testing with XS
My laptop (jhbuild) and Classmate (running the same Strawberry version of SoaS) both connected to the jabber server and were stable on the same network as the other machines. -walter On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: On 9 Jul 2009, at 00:13, Caroline Meeks wrote: Specifically for the GPA We have 18 computers. Wired to the internet, we don't know the details. We are trying to bring in another computer, install the XS for it and put it beside the existing computers. For this summer we would be thrilled if we could get the computer lab collaborating in anyway and see three paths that might lead us to success. • Fix Jabber collaboration - We have a mysterious bug (that is also being worked on in parallel) that keeps dropping the connection to the externally hosted Jabber Server (jabber.sl.org) and we wondered if a local XS would work better. To me that sounds like the school is (perhaps wisely) blocking ports they think are unnecessary for security reasons in a school full of Windows based machines. Are any of your own machines showing stable connection to jabber.sl.org while on their network? If it is port blocking at the school, there are some tricks that allow you to redirect arbitrary traffic over an open port (likely port 80 for http if the school is allowing direct internet access), but you'd need to tweak each Soas install and the remote server running jabber. And there's still the chance that the school filtering might be more advanced and be introspecting and filtering packets at a lower level than just port numbers. Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoAS Testing with XS
On 9 Jul 2009, at 01:20, Walter Bender wrote: My laptop (jhbuild) and Classmate (running the same Strawberry version of SoaS) both connected to the jabber server and were stable on the same network as the other machines. Well that's good news I guess :-) Is the SoaS for your Classmate on an actual USB stick? Next time you have the chance, can you boot that USB stick from one of the failing machines, and vice versa, to be sure it is machine specific rather than software specific. H. I guess the MAC address of the school equipment network cards 'could' be part of the school network filtering set-up, but I'd assume they'd just go and filter every machine rather than going to the trouble of filtering just a list of school equipment. Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoAS Testing with XS
On Wed, Jul 08, 2009 at 07:13:26PM -0400, Caroline Meeks wrote: So in our use case we can't get any entries into the existing DNS. You might have already considered this, but I wanted to make sure you know about this option: The existing DNS [server] doesn't (necessarily) mean the current school-owned/operated DNS server. You can use whatever domain you have (sufficient) control over, e.g. set up a subdomain of solutiongrove.com or even just register your own one. The technical stuff (setting up / operating a DNS) won't be an issue, we can help you out on that. I have experience administering djbdns based servers, bernie probably is able to help out in case you choose to go with BIND. If you don't care about the domain name I could even set you up on one of my domains (about 10 minutes if you catch me on IRC, within 24h via EMail). I'll distinguish between two cases. 1. externally hosted server You'll just need a DNS record (SRV + A/ specifically) under some valid domain name. Should be really easy to set up, depending on what domain you choose / who owns and operates it. For the register your own case: AFAIK most registrars provide some basic DNS service that should suffice (mine does and is quite cheap). You can also run your own DNS server on the same machine as the Jabber server (it needs to have a public IP address anyway for Jabber). 2. server located at school This is more interesting and depends a lot on what infrastructure there is at school, both to support and to interfere with your stuff (or get disturbed by it). If you'd like to do this, please give as much information as possible about the networking environment. Please note that I'm talking only about the Jabber server. I don't know if the XS needs some special setup (e.g. name only schoolserver instead of schoolserver.whatever.tld) for backups etc. to work. Maybe Martin follows up to answer that... CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoAS Testing with XS
Hi Martin, Its good to be back! Despite my cantankerous approach in person, I missed grilling errr I mean chatting with you on the phone every week :-) I'm impressed at your progress and contribution these last six months. In commercial SW you have to nail the release in limited time and book orders ASAP, then move on. I'm learning that longevity and pacing yourself is more important in Open Source. On the SoAS GPA and XS question: It looks like Walter added comments on how they generated the error message: http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1014 Let us know if you need more info or what other tests you would like to see done. In general, which XS release has been tested with the latest SoAS? I see you made some Jabber updates in XS 0.5.2: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Release_Notes Is that the right target image for a new SoAS deployment wanting Collaboration via Jabber? For all, I see some collaboration bugs closed in the Sugar bug db, but I'm not sure what is tested and working in the latest SoAS. Please send over any wiki pages, mail list threads or examples of tests done with collaboration on SoAS. Caroline, Can you confirm the target implementation for GPA is SoAS computers collaborating with each other via Jabber? There are so many sub-components to this section of SW that we will need your help to focus on the right area. Will the Jabber server be in the school or over a WAN to a public (internet IP addressable) place? I'll try to document your answers on the Wiki. HTHs. Thanks, Greg S *** Hi Greg, good to hear from you again. That bug report is just a backtrace. No info on whether the Sugar client was actually using the Jabber server (via Gabble) or not. Or what action was taken, what results seen, or versions of things. Pretty hard to tell what's going on. Are you in touch with Caroline? Can you get her to flesh out the bug? It would also be interesting to get the logs from ejabberd on the server. cheers, martin ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoAS Testing with XS
Caroline, The long term goal is that students at GPA can collaborate with each other from school and home. Thus long term we need a Jabber server and a machine connected to the internet. We could host it at Solution Grove or physically locate it at the school. I think learning about the tradeoffs between these approaches is one of our goals for the pilot. For this summer if we got collaboration working locally in the Computer Room we'd have a better experience then the current no collaboration. We have an extra computer we can use as an XS. I'll need to buy/scavange another network card. Does that help? Thanks, Caroline Can you confirm the target implementation for GPA is SoAS computers collaborating with each other via Jabber? There are so many sub-components to this section of SW that we will need your help to focus on the right area. Will the Jabber server be in the school or over a WAN to a public (internet IP addressable) place? I'll try to document your answers on the Wiki. HTHs. Thanks, Greg S *** Hi Greg, good to hear from you again. That bug report is just a backtrace. No info on whether the Sugar client was actually using the Jabber server (via Gabble) or not. Or what action was taken, what results seen, or versions of things. Pretty hard to tell what's going on. Are you in touch with Caroline? Can you get her to flesh out the bug? It would also be interesting to get the logs from ejabberd on the server. cheers, martin ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoAS Testing with XS
Hi Greg, good to hear from you again. That bug report is just a backtrace. No info on whether the Sugar client was actually using the Jabber server (via Gabble) or not. Or what action was taken, what results seen, or versions of things. Pretty hard to tell what's going on. Are you in touch with Caroline? Can you get her to flesh out the bug? It would also be interesting to get the logs from ejabberd on the server. cheers, martin On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Greg Smithgreg.sm...@envista.com wrote: Hi All, Has anyone tried testing Sugar on a Stick, Strawberry release with collaboration? That is, are there any examples of SoAS computers seeing other SoAS computers in the Network Neighborhood and then sharing Activities? I’m interested in Jabber examples (on XS or other Jabber server) and “local” examples where computers are on the same L3 network. Any links to documentation or test cases is appreciated. This looks to be an important topic for the Gardner School deployment. Caroline has already uncovered a bug in this area http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1014 If anyone is up for working on it, we can get more details and background on the bug report. Thanks, Greg S ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoAS Testing with XS
From the terminal I could see it switching back and forth between gamble and salut No internet access for me now but if you need more infi Please put requests for more info on tickets with good directions and Tuesday I ahould have time in the school to debug Thanks Sent from my iPhone Caroline Meeks 617-395-7966 On Jul 2, 2009, at 8:51 AM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Greg, good to hear from you again. That bug report is just a backtrace. No info on whether the Sugar client was actually using the Jabber server (via Gabble) or not. Or what action was taken, what results seen, or versions of things. Pretty hard to tell what's going on. Are you in touch with Caroline? Can you get her to flesh out the bug? It would also be interesting to get the logs from ejabberd on the server. cheers, martin On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Greg Smithgreg.sm...@envista.com wrote: Hi All, Has anyone tried testing Sugar on a Stick, Strawberry release with collaboration? That is, are there any examples of SoAS computers seeing other SoAS computers in the Network Neighborhood and then sharing Activities? I’m interested in Jabber examples (on XS or other Jabber server) a nd “local” examples where computers are on the same L3 network. Any links to documentation or test cases is appreciated. This looks to be an important topic for the Gardner School deployment. Caroline has already uncovered a bug in this area http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1014 If anyone is up for working on it, we can get more details and background on the bug report. Thanks, Greg S ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoAS Testing with XS
On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 17:37, Greg Smithgreg.sm...@envista.com wrote: Hi All, Has anyone tried testing Sugar on a Stick, Strawberry release with collaboration? That is, are there any examples of SoAS computers seeing other SoAS computers in the Network Neighborhood and then sharing Activities? Hi Greg, this generally works but I'm pretty sure there are bugs in the Sugar layer that affect presence reliability. I want to work on this since a long time, hopefully this weekend will tackle it. I’m interested in Jabber examples (on XS or other Jabber server) and “local” examples where computers are on the same L3 network. Any links to documentation or test cases is appreciated. This looks to be an important topic for the Gardner School deployment. Caroline has already uncovered a bug in this area http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1014 If anyone is up for working on it, we can get more details and background on the bug report. That also interests me, will ask for more information when I get to it. Thanks, Tomeu Thanks, Greg S ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
