Re: [Sugar-devel] To Cameron: ML idea discussion

[James Cameron]

Thanks.  Are there standard measures of hardware performance you could
use as estimates?  Measurement units change over time.  At the moment
I'm most familiar with Geekbench multi-core processor scores.

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 09:09:53AM +0200, Ahmed ElSabbagh wrote:
> As for hardware, I am not sure how strong should it be to run a training model
> for Neural Network or any other classifier.
> 
> As for internet access, the training can be done offline no problem, it can be
> slow depending on the size of the data set they add, it could be a feature to
> try predict or estimate the amount of time it will take them given a minimum
> hardware specification, the problem however will be the lack of pictures to
> use, so a minimum number of photos and categories can be provided offline at
> any given time, with other pictures and categories available downloadable
> whenever internet is available.
> 
> On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 at 02:41, James Cameron <[1]qu...@laptop.org> wrote:
> 
> Godo discussion, thanks.
> 
> In addition to hardware limits, also try to avoid requiring internet
> access.
> 
> --
> James Cameron
> [2]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> [3]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> [4]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> 
> References:
> 
> [1] mailto:qu...@laptop.org
> [2] http://quozl.netrek.org/
> [3] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> [4] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] To Cameron: ML idea discussion

[Ahmed ElSabbagh]

As for hardware, I am not sure how strong should it be to run a training
model for Neural Network or any other classifier.

As for internet access, the training can be done offline no problem, it can
be slow depending on the size of the data set they add, it could be a
feature to try predict or estimate the amount of time it will take them
given a minimum hardware specification, the problem however will be the
lack of pictures to use, so a minimum number of photos and categories can
be provided offline at any given time, with other pictures and categories
available downloadable whenever internet is available.

On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 at 02:41, James Cameron  wrote:

> Godo discussion, thanks.
>
> In addition to hardware limits, also try to avoid requiring internet
> access.
>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.netrek.org/
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
___
Sugar-devel mailing list
Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] To Cameron: ML idea discussion

[James Cameron]

Godo discussion, thanks.

In addition to hardware limits, also try to avoid requiring internet
access.

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
___
Sugar-devel mailing list
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Re: [Sugar-devel] To Cameron: ML idea discussion

[Sumit Srivastava]

Anyone pursuing this idea might also want to keep in mind that the hardware
of systems that students use might not not be "powerful" enough in most
cases.

On Wed, 27 Mar 2019, 6:49 pm IQRA MUHAMMAD, 
wrote:

> Hi!
>
> The ML activity was an idea given by me initially. I have to say that you
> need to first understand the concept of what "testing" and "training"  a
> model is.  We are not arranging the pictures here. We are training the
> model with the pictures.
> Have a look at the google drive worksheet link that I have attached along
> this email below. Besides ideas there are more ideas of google AI
> experiments that can you get inspired from   :)
> There is a website based on teaching ML to kids and that has lesson plans
> and worksheets:
>
> 1. https://machinelearningforkids.co.uk/#!/worksheets
>
> 2. https://experiments.withgoogle.com/teachable-machine
>
> 3. https://experiments.withgoogle.com/handwriting-with-a-neural-net
>
> 4. https://experiments.withgoogle.com/semantris
>
> Google Drive Iink for the car or cup worksheet:
>  
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZY5DdWgeSrzaswRhhXemkVWpllIV4suA/view?usp=sharing
> 
>
> Regards,
> Iqra
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 3:00 PM Ahmed ElSabbagh <
> ahmed.h.elsabb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello James,
>> Thank you for the warm welcome, I am currently reading the documentation
>> you have sent.
>> Image recognition seems interesting, but shall we fill the blanks?
>> Should the activity for different pictures of cars, cups and other
>> things, the children should then choose which picture goes to which
>> category, then they test it on other images and if it should succeed in
>> recognizing it? And the initially 0 knowledge model learns incrementally?
>> This could be done a score for how many new pictures the Model was able
>> to recognize and each level the children pass they go to a new threshold or
>> level repeat and so on.
>> I see here is:
>> I am not familiar enough with in particular, but shouldn't the model take
>> many pictures in order to be capable enough? If would be tiresome for
>> children to arrange all the pictures.
>>
>> On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 at 07:49, 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Send Sugar-devel mailing list submissions to
>>> sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>> , via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> sugar-devel-ow...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> "Re: Contents of Sugar- digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>1. Re: Expressing Interest GSoC (James Cameron)
>>>2. Re: A problem of "No module named..." when trying to run an
>>>   which uses GTK (James Cameron)
>>>3. Re: Regarding to python 3 project (James Cameron)
>>>4. Re: GSOC19 proposal (James Cameron)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 15:56:56 +1100
>>> From: James Cameron 
>>> To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Expressing Interest GSoC
>>> Message-ID: <20190327045656.gn13...@laptop.org>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; =us-
>>>
>>> Welcome Ahmed,
>>>
>>> Further information about how Sugar works for children can be found in
>>> documentation https://help.sugarlabs.org/
>>>
>>> You can also find more about Sugarizer on the https://sugarizer.org/
>>> .
>>>
>>> Machine Learning is difficult to fit into elementary teaching, as it
>>> such a narrow and rapidly changing field, with a
>>> knowledge.
>>>
>>> Yes, there were ideas about Machine Learning, my previous post gave a
>>> to https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/issues/16
>>>
>>> Think of a lesson plan for how a teacher could explain Machine
>>> Learning a child of nine years of age, without treating it as a
>>> " box" concept?
>>>
>>> Each week I teach a class of about 12 children, and they don't need to
>>> about Machine Learning or Artificial Intelligence in order to use
>>> products that depend on it.  It is often enough to say that it is
>>> mathematics and logic; which is a deferral.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 09:21:09AM +0200, Ahmed ElSabbagh wrote:
>>> > Hello Sugar Developers,
>>> > I am a student looking for ideas for google Google Summer of Code.
>>> > have caught my I find it difficult to understand
>>> > it works in general as not many tutorials are available.
>>> > I am fairly experienced in writing Python and I wish if possible to
>>> create a
>>> > activity for Machine Learning in Sugar.
>>> > Where could I possibly start and are there any specific ideas for ML
>>> > already in your mind for implementation.
>>> > Regards,
>>> > AHS
>>>
>>> > 

Re: [Sugar-devel] To Cameron: ML idea discussion

[IQRA MUHAMMAD]

Hi!

The ML activity was an idea given by me initially. I have to say that you
need to first understand the concept of what "testing" and "training"  a
model is.  We are not arranging the pictures here. We are training the
model with the pictures.
Have a look at the google drive worksheet link that I have attached along
this email below. Besides ideas there are more ideas of google AI
experiments that can you get inspired from   :)
There is a website based on teaching ML to kids and that has lesson plans
and worksheets:

1. https://machinelearningforkids.co.uk/#!/worksheets

2. https://experiments.withgoogle.com/teachable-machine

3. https://experiments.withgoogle.com/handwriting-with-a-neural-net

4. https://experiments.withgoogle.com/semantris

Google Drive Iink for the car or cup worksheet:
 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZY5DdWgeSrzaswRhhXemkVWpllIV4suA/view?usp=sharing


Regards,
Iqra


On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 3:00 PM Ahmed ElSabbagh 
wrote:

> Hello James,
> Thank you for the warm welcome, I am currently reading the documentation
> you have sent.
> Image recognition seems interesting, but shall we fill the blanks?
> Should the activity for different pictures of cars, cups and other things,
> the children should then choose which picture goes to which category, then
> they test it on other images and if it should succeed in recognizing it?
> And the initially 0 knowledge model learns incrementally?
> This could be done a score for how many new pictures the Model was able to
> recognize and each level the children pass they go to a new threshold or
> level repeat and so on.
> I see here is:
> I am not familiar enough with in particular, but shouldn't the model take
> many pictures in order to be capable enough? If would be tiresome for
> children to arrange all the pictures.
>
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 at 07:49, 
> wrote:
>
>> Send Sugar-devel mailing list submissions to
>> sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>> , via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> sugar-devel-ow...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> "Re: Contents of Sugar- digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Re: Expressing Interest GSoC (James Cameron)
>>2. Re: A problem of "No module named..." when trying to run an
>>   which uses GTK (James Cameron)
>>3. Re: Regarding to python 3 project (James Cameron)
>>4. Re: GSOC19 proposal (James Cameron)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 15:56:56 +1100
>> From: James Cameron 
>> To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Expressing Interest GSoC
>> Message-ID: <20190327045656.gn13...@laptop.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; =us-
>>
>> Welcome Ahmed,
>>
>> Further information about how Sugar works for children can be found in
>> documentation https://help.sugarlabs.org/
>>
>> You can also find more about Sugarizer on the https://sugarizer.org/
>> .
>>
>> Machine Learning is difficult to fit into elementary teaching, as it
>> such a narrow and rapidly changing field, with a
>> knowledge.
>>
>> Yes, there were ideas about Machine Learning, my previous post gave a
>> to https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/issues/16
>>
>> Think of a lesson plan for how a teacher could explain Machine
>> Learning a child of nine years of age, without treating it as a
>> " box" concept?
>>
>> Each week I teach a class of about 12 children, and they don't need to
>> about Machine Learning or Artificial Intelligence in order to use
>> products that depend on it.  It is often enough to say that it is
>> mathematics and logic; which is a deferral.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 09:21:09AM +0200, Ahmed ElSabbagh wrote:
>> > Hello Sugar Developers,
>> > I am a student looking for ideas for google Google Summer of Code.
>> > have caught my I find it difficult to understand
>> > it works in general as not many tutorials are available.
>> > I am fairly experienced in writing Python and I wish if possible to
>> create a
>> > activity for Machine Learning in Sugar.
>> > Where could I possibly start and are there any specific ideas for ML
>> > already in your mind for implementation.
>> > Regards,
>> > AHS
>>
>> > ___
>> > Sugar-devel mailing list
>> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Cameron
>> http://quozl.netrek.org/
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 16:02:59 +1100
>> From: James Cameron 
>> To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> Subject: Re: [S

[Sugar-devel] To Cameron: ML idea discussion

[Ahmed ElSabbagh]

Hello James,
Thank you for the warm welcome, I am currently reading the documentation
you have sent.
Image recognition seems interesting, but shall we fill the blanks?
Should the activity for example show different pictures of cars, cups and
other things, the children should then choose which picture goes to which
category, then they test it on other images and if it should succeed in
recognizing it? And the initially 0 knowledge model learns incrementally?
This could be done by a score for how many new pictures the Model was able
to recognize and each level the children pass they go to a new threshold or
level repeat and so on.
Problems I see here is:
I am not familiar enough with image recognition ML field in particular, but
shouldn't the model take many pictures in order to be capable enough? If so
it would be tiresome for children to arrange all the pictures.

On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 at 07:49, 
wrote:

> Send Sugar-devel mailing list submissions to
> sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> sugar-devel-ow...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Sugar-devel digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: Expressing Interest GSoC (James Cameron)
>2. Re: A problem of "No module named..." when trying to run an
>   activity which uses GTK (James Cameron)
>3. Re: Regarding port to python 3 project (James Cameron)
>4. Re: GSOC19 proposal (James Cameron)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 15:56:56 +1100
> From: James Cameron 
> To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Expressing Interest GSoC
> Message-ID: <20190327045656.gn13...@laptop.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Welcome Ahmed,
>
> Further information about how Sugar works for children can be found in
> the documentation https://help.sugarlabs.org/
>
> You can also find more about Sugarizer on the https://sugarizer.org/
> site.
>
> Machine Learning is difficult to fit into elementary teaching, as it
> is such a narrow and rapidly changing field, with a large base of
> prerequisite knowledge.
>
> Yes, there were ideas about Machine Learning, my previous post gave a
> link to https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/issues/16
>
> Think of a lesson plan for how a teacher could explain Machine
> Learning to a child of nine years of age, without treating it as a
> "black box" concept?
>
> Each week I teach a class of about 12 children, and they don't need to
> know about Machine Learning or Artificial Intelligence in order to use
> the products that depend on it.  It is often enough to say that it is
> practical mathematics and logic; which is a deferral.
>
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 09:21:09AM +0200, Ahmed ElSabbagh wrote:
> > Hello Sugar Developers,
> > I am a student looking for ideas for google Google Summer of Code.
> > Your SugarLabs have caught my attention but I find it difficult to
> understand
> > how it works in general as not many tutorials are available.
> > I am fairly experienced in writing Python and I wish if possible to
> create a
> > new activity for Machine Learning in Sugar.
> > Where could I possibly start and are there any specific ideas for ML
> > applications already in your mind for implementation.
> > Regards,
> > AHS
>
> > ___
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.netrek.org/
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 16:02:59 +1100
> From: James Cameron 
> To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] A problem of "No module named..." when
> trying to run an activity which uses GTK
> Message-ID: <20190327050259.go13...@laptop.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Yes, Ashish Kumar made a commit which I merged as 0c53e0b, but you're
> talking about a different issue, for porting to Python 3 and you've
> made changes in ce7a724 ... but now I'm confused, because it doesn't
> look like this commit was a complete port to Python 3, yet it is not
> marked as a draft pull request.
>
>
> https://github.com/sugarlabs/math-hurdler/pull/2/commits/ce7a724b7c3ba5f03d0b33eec0774dd08cebb5e4
> https://github.com/sugarlabs/math-hurdler/pull/2
>
> See our Python 3 Porting Guide
>
> https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/python-porting-guide.md
>
> My tests were with Python 2.  We will have Python 2 systems in use for
> quite a while.
>
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 04:17:39PM +0530, kushagra nigam wrote:
> >