Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Tomeu Vizoso]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 16:38, Gabriel Eirea wrote:
> 2009/8/31 Tomeu Vizoso :
>> On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 01:07, Gabriel Eirea wrote:
>>> 2009/8/14 Tomeu Vizoso :
 On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 23:16, Sascha
 Silbe wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 04:32:08PM -0300, Gabriel Eirea wrote:
>
>> 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
>> home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
>> in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
>> she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
>
> To me this sounds like OpenOffice is saving a later version of the
> OpenDocument (ODT) format than Write understands (similar to Microsoft 
> Word
> 95 not being able to read documents that have been written by Microsoft 
> Word
> 97). In that case, there may be a way to tell Open Office to save in the
> older ODT version, so that Write can still read it.
> I hope someone else more proficient with Write (Abiword) and OpenOffice 
> will
> either confirm or disprove my suspicion.

 Yes, would be awesome to get those files and see in which format are.
>>>
>>> Well, finally I got some files to analyze the problem. Recalling the
>>> problem: the kids save a Write entry, the teacher moves the files from
>>> the journal to a pendrive, opens them in Ubuntu with OpenOffice,
>>> modifies them, saves them back again in the pendrive and moves them
>>> back to the journal in the kid's XO. But then when they try to open it
>>> in Write they see a blank page. Same thing if she saves from
>>> OpenOffice in pdf and tries to open it in the XO from the journal.
>>>
>>> Please find attached a compressed file with four examples.
>>
>> Thanks a lot, these files are the ones from the XO or have been
>> already opened in OpenOffice?
>
> They have already been opened in OpenOffice, modified and saved again.

Ok, this means that it's not a problem with the format of the modified
files. I have noticed how the files have some glitches when opened in
OpenOffice, specially regarding images. I have heard there have been
big improvements in this are in the last abiword release.

>> Seems like the formats of those files are ok and I was able to open on
>> a XO with the 802 image, also after editing them in OpenOffice in
>> Fedora.
>>
>> What I have seen during this test that could explain the confusion is
>> that if you change the files from the usb stick on non-Sugar, the
>> internal database on the stick is not updated.
>>
>> This means that when you plug next the stick on the XO, you will see
>> the "ghost" entries associated to the old files plus some new entries
>> associated to the new files. If the user tries to copy the ghost
>> entries instead of the real ones (which look mostly the same) then I
>> can see how this problem would arise.
>>
>> To verify this hypothesis, please tell the teacher to delete the
>> folder named .olpc.store in Ubuntu, before placing the usb stick back
>> on the XO. This will remove the ghost entries.
>
> This may explain the problem, I will ask her to try deleting the
> folder. I believe you said before that this problem no longer exists
> in 0.84?

Yes, from 0.84 onwards Sugar will read the whole contents of the usb
stick every time it is inserted, not relying on any database for that.

Regards,

Tomeu

>> Thanks a lot,
>>
>> Tomeu
>
> Thank you for being there.
>
> Gabriel
>



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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Gabriel Eirea]

2009/8/31 Tomeu Vizoso :
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 01:07, Gabriel Eirea wrote:
>> 2009/8/14 Tomeu Vizoso :
>>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 23:16, Sascha
>>> Silbe wrote:
 On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 04:32:08PM -0300, Gabriel Eirea wrote:

> 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
> home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
> in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
> she can't open it even if the document was not modified.

 To me this sounds like OpenOffice is saving a later version of the
 OpenDocument (ODT) format than Write understands (similar to Microsoft Word
 95 not being able to read documents that have been written by Microsoft 
 Word
 97). In that case, there may be a way to tell Open Office to save in the
 older ODT version, so that Write can still read it.
 I hope someone else more proficient with Write (Abiword) and OpenOffice 
 will
 either confirm or disprove my suspicion.
>>>
>>> Yes, would be awesome to get those files and see in which format are.
>>
>> Well, finally I got some files to analyze the problem. Recalling the
>> problem: the kids save a Write entry, the teacher moves the files from
>> the journal to a pendrive, opens them in Ubuntu with OpenOffice,
>> modifies them, saves them back again in the pendrive and moves them
>> back to the journal in the kid's XO. But then when they try to open it
>> in Write they see a blank page. Same thing if she saves from
>> OpenOffice in pdf and tries to open it in the XO from the journal.
>>
>> Please find attached a compressed file with four examples.
>
> Thanks a lot, these files are the ones from the XO or have been
> already opened in OpenOffice?

They have already been opened in OpenOffice, modified and saved again.

> Seems like the formats of those files are ok and I was able to open on
> a XO with the 802 image, also after editing them in OpenOffice in
> Fedora.
>
> What I have seen during this test that could explain the confusion is
> that if you change the files from the usb stick on non-Sugar, the
> internal database on the stick is not updated.
>
> This means that when you plug next the stick on the XO, you will see
> the "ghost" entries associated to the old files plus some new entries
> associated to the new files. If the user tries to copy the ghost
> entries instead of the real ones (which look mostly the same) then I
> can see how this problem would arise.
>
> To verify this hypothesis, please tell the teacher to delete the
> folder named .olpc.store in Ubuntu, before placing the usb stick back
> on the XO. This will remove the ghost entries.

This may explain the problem, I will ask her to try deleting the
folder. I believe you said before that this problem no longer exists
in 0.84?

> Thanks a lot,
>
> Tomeu

Thank you for being there.

Gabriel
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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Tomeu Vizoso]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 01:07, Gabriel Eirea wrote:
> 2009/8/14 Tomeu Vizoso :
>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 23:16, Sascha
>> Silbe wrote:
>>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 04:32:08PM -0300, Gabriel Eirea wrote:
>>>
 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
 home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
 in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
 she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
>>>
>>> To me this sounds like OpenOffice is saving a later version of the
>>> OpenDocument (ODT) format than Write understands (similar to Microsoft Word
>>> 95 not being able to read documents that have been written by Microsoft Word
>>> 97). In that case, there may be a way to tell Open Office to save in the
>>> older ODT version, so that Write can still read it.
>>> I hope someone else more proficient with Write (Abiword) and OpenOffice will
>>> either confirm or disprove my suspicion.
>>
>> Yes, would be awesome to get those files and see in which format are.
>
> Well, finally I got some files to analyze the problem. Recalling the
> problem: the kids save a Write entry, the teacher moves the files from
> the journal to a pendrive, opens them in Ubuntu with OpenOffice,
> modifies them, saves them back again in the pendrive and moves them
> back to the journal in the kid's XO. But then when they try to open it
> in Write they see a blank page. Same thing if she saves from
> OpenOffice in pdf and tries to open it in the XO from the journal.
>
> Please find attached a compressed file with four examples.

Thanks a lot, these files are the ones from the XO or have been
already opened in OpenOffice?

Seems like the formats of those files are ok and I was able to open on
a XO with the 802 image, also after editing them in OpenOffice in
Fedora.

What I have seen during this test that could explain the confusion is
that if you change the files from the usb stick on non-Sugar, the
internal database on the stick is not updated.

This means that when you plug next the stick on the XO, you will see
the "ghost" entries associated to the old files plus some new entries
associated to the new files. If the user tries to copy the ghost
entries instead of the real ones (which look mostly the same) then I
can see how this problem would arise.

To verify this hypothesis, please tell the teacher to delete the
folder named .olpc.store in Ubuntu, before placing the usb stick back
on the XO. This will remove the ghost entries.

Thanks a lot,

Tomeu

-- 
«Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar.
What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David
Farning
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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Manusheel Gupta]

Raul,

Thank you.

We do maintain SocialCalc at a.sl.o. Unfortunately, we didn't have the
updated version over there.

Just updated it today. Please have a look at *
http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4084

*Regards,

Manu


On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Raul Gutierrez Segales
wrote:

> On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 15:31 +0530, Manusheel Gupta wrote:
> > Gabriel, please ask the teacher to download the latest SocialCalc
> > activity package from here .
>
> Could we move/copy this to a.sl.o? Makes life easier for deployment
> teams to then grab activities and make them available at local
> servers..
>
> Thanks!
>
> P.S.: i am assuming it's not available (yet) at a.sl.o because of the
> link you provided.. i couldn't check myself since a.sl.o is down at the
> moment.
>
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Martin Langhoff]

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 5:03 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
>> 2.  Moodle's ejabberd integration.  Martin Langhoff developed a system to
>> connect Moodle's concept of classes to ejabberd.  The result is that each
>> user only sees other users in his/her class, as configured through the
>> Moodle web interface.
>
> Is this in use somewhere? Would like to hear how it is being used and
> if we can add anything to Sugar to improve integration, maybe a class
> browser/selector?

Not in use but I've tested it extensively, and I am encouraging
deployments to use it. We'll see it in use very soon I expect.

>From the PoV of XMPP (not sure how much Telepathy exposes) each
'course' is a separate 'shared roster group'. So clients can see if
they have 3 SRGs, and can apply whatever UI to that info. Pidgin shows
it as different groups.

With this setup, there will be users you just don't see. So one thing
I am very keen on is exploring whether we can do the 'search for a
user I cannot see' via a standard XMPP call.

This is something that has been discussed re Gadget (not sure if
Gadget has it implemented) -- it will need some changes in the
'neighbourhood' UI, but will be excellent. I am sure that XMPP
supports something like that, and if ejabberd doesn't implement it, I
can implement it for the XS.

>> 3.  Per-class servers.  You can run many different ejabberd instances,
>> with DNS names like year4classD.schoolserver.local, one for each

No no no. Wad was going that way, I studied the idea and it is a big
mess if you think of a real school. Teachers are active in more than
one class/group, kids often migrate class/groups. Kids may belong to
more than one class/group. Many servers is a significant cost. Using
VMs is a performance/scalability nightmare.

And to segregate each XO to a different class/group you'd need either
completely separate wifi/network infra for each class, or to maintain
MAC address tables for DHCP to assign different DNS servers to each.
Ugh!

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

In general, it is a good idea to assume I spent a non-trivial amount
of time in my architectural decisions. :-)

cheers,



m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Tomeu Vizoso]

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 19:33, Benjamin M.
Schwartz wrote:
> Andrés Nacelle wrote:
>> We've got good results with the ejabber, but we don't know what
>> will happen in a big school where 200 or 300 XO may appear n the
>> Neighbourhood view.
>
> Two solutions have been developed for this problem.  Both work by making
> sure that each user does not see all 300 other users.
>
> 1.  Collabora's Gadget.  Gadget is a Jabber extension that can be run with
> ejabberd.  It modifies the visibility/roster behaviors so that each user
> only sees a restricted number of other users.  Who sees who can be
> configured programmatically, or even made to be random.

Well, actually the user could "see" all users in the same view if we
used Gadget properly from the UI side of things, just as the Journal
allows browsing thousands of entries from the DS but only retrieves
some dozens at a time.

> 2.  Moodle's ejabberd integration.  Martin Langhoff developed a system to
> connect Moodle's concept of classes to ejabberd.  The result is that each
> user only sees other users in his/her class, as configured through the
> Moodle web interface.

Is this in use somewhere? Would like to hear how it is being used and
if we can add anything to Sugar to improve integration, maybe a class
browser/selector?

> I'll propose a third option, while we're talking about it:
>
> 3.  Per-class servers.  You can run many different ejabberd instances,
> with DNS names like year4classD.schoolserver.local, one for each
> classroom.  Users can connect to the one for their classroom.  Even if all
> the ejabberds are running on the same physical server, this would prevent
> overload.  Once the servers are set up, no further server-side
> configuration is required, and users can choose which class they are in.

I have heard this being proposed for LTSP setups. Wonder if the
servers could advertise themselves via mDNS and then offer those
auto-discovered servers as hints to the jabber server textfield.

Regards,

Tomeu

> --Ben
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Raul Gutierrez Segales]

On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 15:31 +0530, Manusheel Gupta wrote:
> Gabriel, please ask the teacher to download the latest SocialCalc
> activity package from here . 

Could we move/copy this to a.sl.o? Makes life easier for deployment
teams to then grab activities and make them available at local
servers.. 

Thanks!

P.S.: i am assuming it's not available (yet) at a.sl.o because of the
link you provided.. i couldn't check myself since a.sl.o is down at the
moment. 


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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Andrés Nacelle]

Really thanks a lot for all the feedback, let me tell you that this is one
of the best feedback I`ve received in a while, congratulations.

I`ll be telling you about this when I look at this.

Bye

Andres Nacelle.

2009/8/14 Benjamin M. Schwartz 

> Andrés Nacelle wrote:
> > We've got good results with the ejabber, but we don't know what
> > will happen in a big school where 200 or 300 XO may appear n the
> > Neighbourhood view.
>
> Two solutions have been developed for this problem.  Both work by making
> sure that each user does not see all 300 other users.
>
> 1.  Collabora's Gadget.  Gadget is a Jabber extension that can be run with
> ejabberd.  It modifies the visibility/roster behaviors so that each user
> only sees a restricted number of other users.  Who sees who can be
> configured programmatically, or even made to be random.
>
> 2.  Moodle's ejabberd integration.  Martin Langhoff developed a system to
> connect Moodle's concept of classes to ejabberd.  The result is that each
> user only sees other users in his/her class, as configured through the
> Moodle web interface.
>
> I'll propose a third option, while we're talking about it:
>
> 3.  Per-class servers.  You can run many different ejabberd instances,
> with DNS names like year4classD.schoolserver.local, one for each
> classroom.  Users can connect to the one for their classroom.  Even if all
> the ejabberds are running on the same physical server, this would prevent
> overload.  Once the servers are set up, no further server-side
> configuration is required, and users can choose which class they are in.
>
> --Ben
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Benjamin M. Schwartz]

Andrés Nacelle wrote:
> We've got good results with the ejabber, but we don't know what
> will happen in a big school where 200 or 300 XO may appear n the
> Neighbourhood view.

Two solutions have been developed for this problem.  Both work by making
sure that each user does not see all 300 other users.

1.  Collabora's Gadget.  Gadget is a Jabber extension that can be run with
ejabberd.  It modifies the visibility/roster behaviors so that each user
only sees a restricted number of other users.  Who sees who can be
configured programmatically, or even made to be random.

2.  Moodle's ejabberd integration.  Martin Langhoff developed a system to
connect Moodle's concept of classes to ejabberd.  The result is that each
user only sees other users in his/her class, as configured through the
Moodle web interface.

I'll propose a third option, while we're talking about it:

3.  Per-class servers.  You can run many different ejabberd instances,
with DNS names like year4classD.schoolserver.local, one for each
classroom.  Users can connect to the one for their classroom.  Even if all
the ejabberds are running on the same physical server, this would prevent
overload.  Once the servers are set up, no further server-side
configuration is required, and users can choose which class they are in.

--Ben



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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[David Van Assche]

Yeah, with that many clients, I'd play with the s2s option to load balance
the xmpp traffic. Either that, and/or take out all debugging options, error
feedback, and the like, so you only get the needed traffic... This page
gives some tuning options:
http://www.ejabberd.im/tuning

Enabling Gadget is supposed to really help, too. Please let us know how it
all goes, as this kind of information is invaluable. From the realtively few
reports we get about collaboration scaling, it seems xmpp based sharing is
not very widespread yet. I guess this is fortunate in one way (things
generally work), but unfortunate in another (not enough feedback)

Also this from ejabberd site:

"Kernel poll reduces ejabberd's CPU usage when it has hundreds (or more)
network connections. It does not affect memory consumption or latency, so if
you plan to support great amounts of simultaneous connected users, you
really want to have a Jabber server with Kernel Poll support."
There is also the possibility of using a different server, but from
everything mentioned, it does seem like Erlang based ejabberd will scale
better than anything else. But good things have been said about Java based
Openfire and Tigase, and Lua based Prosody. We are actually doing an
internal evaluation of the various xmpp servers at my work, so I'll try
publishing that...

good luck,
David Van Assche

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Andrés Nacelle  wrote:

> Hi David, we're aware of this situation. In fact we attempt to share
> activities between this mush XO in order to compare the performance against
> the ejabber. We've got good results with the ejabber, but we don't know what
> will happen in a big school where 200 or 300 XO may appear n the
> Neighbourhood view.
> Without the ejabber lots of udp traffic is generated, from which about 60%
> are retransmissions. If ejabber is used you still should get an improvement
> on the performance if you disable the beacons and the probe response, they
> can produce saturation in the net for some seconds.
>
> Thank for you advise and help.
>
> Andres Nacelle
>
> 2009/8/14 David Van Assche 
>
> Hi Andrés,
>>   The sharing of activities not working for more than a few connections is
>> a common issue in all the deployments I have seen. It is really important to
>> have an ejabberd server to help with routing xmpp traffic, if you plan on
>> running more than a few XOs in collaborative mode.
>>
>> kind regards,
>> David Van Assche
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Andrés Nacelle <
>> anace...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello you all,
>>>
>>> In first place thanks for asking, 'm glad to try to help here.
>>>
>>> Well, lets see. I think in first place we need to make sure witch is the
>>> version of the SO and firmware on the XO from the teacher and children,
>>> which is really easy for the teacher to tell us. There's a chance that she
>>> (or some student) have an activity called something like "Info XO", in that
>>> case they just have to run it and the info will be displayed. In case she
>>> doesn't have it she needs to pres the "tick" button on the game pad during
>>> the booting for the firmware and after the booting change to a terminal an
>>> there look for the SO version.
>>> Once we have that info we can start to see if we can do something about
>>> the mesh issue.
>>> Independent of this, we never been able to share activities on the mesh
>>> for more than a few XO, trying with 20 no XO shared a thing, not even one.
>>>
>>> On the other topics I have nothing to say different from what has been
>>> said in the mailing list.
>>>
>>> Thank
>>>
>>> Andres Nacelle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/8/14 Tomeu Vizoso 
>>>
>>> 2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
 > Hi all,
 >
 > I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
 > request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
 >
 > 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
 > "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.

 Not sure we can debug this remotely :/

 Andrés, do you know about any work in the Ceibal plan to determine the
 reliability of the mesh network?

 > 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
 > home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
 > in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
 > she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
 >
 > 3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
 > pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").
 >
 > 4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
 > move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.

 I understand the frustration, do you think we could get copies of
 those files and more details about the workflow?

 About usb sticks, in versions earlier than 0.84 we are usin

Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Andrés Nacelle]

Hi David, we're aware of this situation. In fact we attempt to share
activities between this mush XO in order to compare the performance against
the ejabber. We've got good results with the ejabber, but we don't know what
will happen in a big school where 200 or 300 XO may appear n the
Neighbourhood view.
Without the ejabber lots of udp traffic is generated, from which about 60%
are retransmissions. If ejabber is used you still should get an improvement
on the performance if you disable the beacons and the probe response, they
can produce saturation in the net for some seconds.

Thank for you advise and help.

Andres Nacelle

2009/8/14 David Van Assche 

> Hi Andrés,
>   The sharing of activities not working for more than a few connections is
> a common issue in all the deployments I have seen. It is really important to
> have an ejabberd server to help with routing xmpp traffic, if you plan on
> running more than a few XOs in collaborative mode.
>
> kind regards,
> David Van Assche
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Andrés Nacelle <
> anace...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy> wrote:
>
>> Hello you all,
>>
>> In first place thanks for asking, 'm glad to try to help here.
>>
>> Well, lets see. I think in first place we need to make sure witch is the
>> version of the SO and firmware on the XO from the teacher and children,
>> which is really easy for the teacher to tell us. There's a chance that she
>> (or some student) have an activity called something like "Info XO", in that
>> case they just have to run it and the info will be displayed. In case she
>> doesn't have it she needs to pres the "tick" button on the game pad during
>> the booting for the firmware and after the booting change to a terminal an
>> there look for the SO version.
>> Once we have that info we can start to see if we can do something about
>> the mesh issue.
>> Independent of this, we never been able to share activities on the mesh
>> for more than a few XO, trying with 20 no XO shared a thing, not even one.
>>
>> On the other topics I have nothing to say different from what has been
>> said in the mailing list.
>>
>> Thank
>>
>> Andres Nacelle
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2009/8/14 Tomeu Vizoso 
>>
>> 2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> > I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
>>> > request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
>>> >
>>> > 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
>>> > "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.
>>>
>>> Not sure we can debug this remotely :/
>>>
>>> Andrés, do you know about any work in the Ceibal plan to determine the
>>> reliability of the mesh network?
>>>
>>> > 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
>>> > home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
>>> > in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
>>> > she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
>>> >
>>> > 3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
>>> > pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").
>>> >
>>> > 4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
>>> > move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.
>>>
>>> I understand the frustration, do you think we could get copies of
>>> those files and more details about the workflow?
>>>
>>> About usb sticks, in versions earlier than 0.84 we are using a scheme
>>> that is quite fragile, specially when using the same stick with
>>> non-sugar computers.
>>>
>>> I would recommend deleting the .olpc.store in the usb stick after
>>> every usage in a non-sugar computer and see if weird things stop
>>> happening. If this helps somehow, then we should find a way to
>>> publicize this trick. Note that from Sugar 0.84 this is not needed.
>>>
>>> > 5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
>>> > Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.
>>>
>>> Manu, know anything about it? I guess having a ticket with the
>>> activity logs would help here.
>>>
>>> > 6) She claims that files dissappear for no reason. This probably needs
>>> > to be clarified. She discards the possibility of kids deleting files
>>> > by accident.
>>>
>>> Yes, this deserves further clarification. It's a very wide issue, so
>>> we'll need a way to track all the different circumstances in which
>>> data reliability can happen. The journal data store was rewritten in
>>> 0.84 with increasing reliability on mind, but I guess it will take a
>>> while to update all machines to that or later versions of Sugar.
>>>
>>> > Now the question is, how can we get these questions in reasonable
>>> > shape so it is useful information for debugging?
>>>
>>> That's the Million Laptops Question ;)
>>>
>>> We are doing nice progress on this, but it's a really big task.
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot,
>>>
>>> Tomeu
>>>
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > Gabriel
>>> >
>>> >
>>>

Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[David Van Assche]

Hi Andrés,
  The sharing of activities not working for more than a few connections is a
common issue in all the deployments I have seen. It is really important to
have an ejabberd server to help with routing xmpp traffic, if you plan on
running more than a few XOs in collaborative mode.

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Andrés Nacelle  wrote:

> Hello you all,
>
> In first place thanks for asking, 'm glad to try to help here.
>
> Well, lets see. I think in first place we need to make sure witch is the
> version of the SO and firmware on the XO from the teacher and children,
> which is really easy for the teacher to tell us. There's a chance that she
> (or some student) have an activity called something like "Info XO", in that
> case they just have to run it and the info will be displayed. In case she
> doesn't have it she needs to pres the "tick" button on the game pad during
> the booting for the firmware and after the booting change to a terminal an
> there look for the SO version.
> Once we have that info we can start to see if we can do something about the
> mesh issue.
> Independent of this, we never been able to share activities on the mesh for
> more than a few XO, trying with 20 no XO shared a thing, not even one.
>
> On the other topics I have nothing to say different from what has been said
> in the mailing list.
>
> Thank
>
> Andres Nacelle
>
>
>
>
> 2009/8/14 Tomeu Vizoso 
>
> 2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
>> > request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
>> >
>> > 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
>> > "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.
>>
>> Not sure we can debug this remotely :/
>>
>> Andrés, do you know about any work in the Ceibal plan to determine the
>> reliability of the mesh network?
>>
>> > 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
>> > home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
>> > in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
>> > she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
>> >
>> > 3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
>> > pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").
>> >
>> > 4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
>> > move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.
>>
>> I understand the frustration, do you think we could get copies of
>> those files and more details about the workflow?
>>
>> About usb sticks, in versions earlier than 0.84 we are using a scheme
>> that is quite fragile, specially when using the same stick with
>> non-sugar computers.
>>
>> I would recommend deleting the .olpc.store in the usb stick after
>> every usage in a non-sugar computer and see if weird things stop
>> happening. If this helps somehow, then we should find a way to
>> publicize this trick. Note that from Sugar 0.84 this is not needed.
>>
>> > 5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
>> > Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.
>>
>> Manu, know anything about it? I guess having a ticket with the
>> activity logs would help here.
>>
>> > 6) She claims that files dissappear for no reason. This probably needs
>> > to be clarified. She discards the possibility of kids deleting files
>> > by accident.
>>
>> Yes, this deserves further clarification. It's a very wide issue, so
>> we'll need a way to track all the different circumstances in which
>> data reliability can happen. The journal data store was rewritten in
>> 0.84 with increasing reliability on mind, but I guess it will take a
>> while to update all machines to that or later versions of Sugar.
>>
>> > Now the question is, how can we get these questions in reasonable
>> > shape so it is useful information for debugging?
>>
>> That's the Million Laptops Question ;)
>>
>> We are doing nice progress on this, but it's a really big task.
>>
>> Thanks a lot,
>>
>> Tomeu
>>
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Gabriel
>> >
>> >
>> > -- Mensaje reenviado --
>> >
>> > Quisiera que supieras que tenemos algunos problemas con varias cosas
>> > en la xo y me parece que son puntos importantes para que podamos
>> > trabajar mejor con la máquina. te paso algunos, y vos ves si pueden
>> > hacer algo al respecto.
>> > Las redes malla siguen funcionando mal, y desde que se actualizaron
>> > las máquinas es peor, son muy pocos los niños que logran entrar en la
>> > misma red.
>> > He tenido dificultades cuando guardo en el pen drive textos realizados
>> > en write, los leo con el open office y luego vuelvo a cargarlo en sus
>> >  máquinas y no me los lee, aún cuando no les realizo ninguna
>> > modificación. Probé cambiándole el formato a pdf, que sé que las xo lo
>> > leen, y no pude, cuando abro el pen en la xo y hago clic en

Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Andrés Nacelle]

Hello you all,

In first place thanks for asking, 'm glad to try to help here.

Well, lets see. I think in first place we need to make sure witch is the
version of the SO and firmware on the XO from the teacher and children,
which is really easy for the teacher to tell us. There's a chance that she
(or some student) have an activity called something like "Info XO", in that
case they just have to run it and the info will be displayed. In case she
doesn't have it she needs to pres the "tick" button on the game pad during
the booting for the firmware and after the booting change to a terminal an
there look for the SO version.
Once we have that info we can start to see if we can do something about the
mesh issue.
Independent of this, we never been able to share activities on the mesh for
more than a few XO, trying with 20 no XO shared a thing, not even one.

On the other topics I have nothing to say different from what has been said
in the mailing list.

Thank

Andres Nacelle




2009/8/14 Tomeu Vizoso 

> 2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
> > request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
> >
> > 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
> > "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.
>
> Not sure we can debug this remotely :/
>
> Andrés, do you know about any work in the Ceibal plan to determine the
> reliability of the mesh network?
>
> > 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
> > home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
> > in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
> > she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
> >
> > 3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
> > pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").
> >
> > 4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
> > move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.
>
> I understand the frustration, do you think we could get copies of
> those files and more details about the workflow?
>
> About usb sticks, in versions earlier than 0.84 we are using a scheme
> that is quite fragile, specially when using the same stick with
> non-sugar computers.
>
> I would recommend deleting the .olpc.store in the usb stick after
> every usage in a non-sugar computer and see if weird things stop
> happening. If this helps somehow, then we should find a way to
> publicize this trick. Note that from Sugar 0.84 this is not needed.
>
> > 5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
> > Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.
>
> Manu, know anything about it? I guess having a ticket with the
> activity logs would help here.
>
> > 6) She claims that files dissappear for no reason. This probably needs
> > to be clarified. She discards the possibility of kids deleting files
> > by accident.
>
> Yes, this deserves further clarification. It's a very wide issue, so
> we'll need a way to track all the different circumstances in which
> data reliability can happen. The journal data store was rewritten in
> 0.84 with increasing reliability on mind, but I guess it will take a
> while to update all machines to that or later versions of Sugar.
>
> > Now the question is, how can we get these questions in reasonable
> > shape so it is useful information for debugging?
>
> That's the Million Laptops Question ;)
>
> We are doing nice progress on this, but it's a really big task.
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Tomeu
>
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Gabriel
> >
> >
> > -- Mensaje reenviado --
> >
> > Quisiera que supieras que tenemos algunos problemas con varias cosas
> > en la xo y me parece que son puntos importantes para que podamos
> > trabajar mejor con la máquina. te paso algunos, y vos ves si pueden
> > hacer algo al respecto.
> > Las redes malla siguen funcionando mal, y desde que se actualizaron
> > las máquinas es peor, son muy pocos los niños que logran entrar en la
> > misma red.
> > He tenido dificultades cuando guardo en el pen drive textos realizados
> > en write, los leo con el open office y luego vuelvo a cargarlo en sus
> >  máquinas y no me los lee, aún cuando no les realizo ninguna
> > modificación. Probé cambiándole el formato a pdf, que sé que las xo lo
> > leen, y no pude, cuando abro el pen en la xo y hago clic en el
> > archivo, ahí puedo ver que está el texto (no lo abrió aún) y hago clic
> > en retomar y qqueda la hoja en blanco. no tengo idea como voy  a hacer
> > para que reparen el texto si ellos no lo bajan en la xo.
> > yo no entiendo, pensé que al tener kubuntu y el open office podría
> > trabajar igual que los niños, pasando de una máquina a la otra sin
> > problemas. Necesito saber más para poder manejarme mejor.
> > otra dificultad que encontré es que en el social calc, la planilla
> > electrónica, a

Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[David Farning]

Tickets filed for 2-5.
Thanks

david

2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
> Hi all,
>
> I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
> request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
>
> 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
> "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.
>
> 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
> home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
> in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
> she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
>
> 3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
> pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").
>
> 4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
> move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.
>
> 5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
> Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.
>
> 6) She claims that files dissappear for no reason. This probably needs
> to be clarified. She discards the possibility of kids deleting files
> by accident.
>
> Now the question is, how can we get these questions in reasonable
> shape so it is useful information for debugging?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gabriel
>
>
> -- Mensaje reenviado --
>
> Quisiera que supieras que tenemos algunos problemas con varias cosas
> en la xo y me parece que son puntos importantes para que podamos
> trabajar mejor con la máquina. te paso algunos, y vos ves si pueden
> hacer algo al respecto.
> Las redes malla siguen funcionando mal, y desde que se actualizaron
> las máquinas es peor, son muy pocos los niños que logran entrar en la
> misma red.
> He tenido dificultades cuando guardo en el pen drive textos realizados
> en write, los leo con el open office y luego vuelvo a cargarlo en sus
>  máquinas y no me los lee, aún cuando no les realizo ninguna
> modificación. Probé cambiándole el formato a pdf, que sé que las xo lo
> leen, y no pude, cuando abro el pen en la xo y hago clic en el
> archivo, ahí puedo ver que está el texto (no lo abrió aún) y hago clic
> en retomar y qqueda la hoja en blanco. no tengo idea como voy  a hacer
> para que reparen el texto si ellos no lo bajan en la xo.
> yo no entiendo, pensé que al tener kubuntu y el open office podría
> trabajar igual que los niños, pasando de una máquina a la otra sin
> problemas. Necesito saber más para poder manejarme mejor.
> otra dificultad que encontré es que en el social calc, la planilla
> electrónica, a la mitad de los chicos se les borra la información al
> guardar, es decir, queda en el journal como guardada, pero los datos
> no aparecen en pantalla cuando abrís.
> Pasa mucho que les desaparecen los archivos, se les borran solos.
> Antes creía que eran ellos que los borraban sin querer, pero ahora me
> doy cuenta que es así.
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
___
Sugar-devel mailing list
Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Manusheel Gupta]

Tomeu,

> 5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
> Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.

>Manu, know anything about it? I guess having a ticket with the
>activity logs would help here.

Yes, this bug was existing in an earlier version of SocialCalc, which has
been fixed in 0.8.3g release.

Save and restore should work very well now.

Gabriel, please ask the teacher to download the latest SocialCalc activity
package from here  . Kindly let me know if
we run into any issues. Thank you for sharing the feedback.

Regards,

Manu


On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:

> 2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
> > request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
> >
> > 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
> > "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.
>
> Not sure we can debug this remotely :/
>
> Andrés, do you know about any work in the Ceibal plan to determine the
> reliability of the mesh network?
>
> > 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
> > home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
> > in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
> > she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
> >
> > 3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
> > pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").
> >
> > 4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
> > move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.
>
> I understand the frustration, do you think we could get copies of
> those files and more details about the workflow?
>
> About usb sticks, in versions earlier than 0.84 we are using a scheme
> that is quite fragile, specially when using the same stick with
> non-sugar computers.
>
> I would recommend deleting the .olpc.store in the usb stick after
> every usage in a non-sugar computer and see if weird things stop
> happening. If this helps somehow, then we should find a way to
> publicize this trick. Note that from Sugar 0.84 this is not needed.
>
> > 5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
> > Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.
>
> Manu, know anything about it? I guess having a ticket with the
> activity logs would help here.
>
> > 6) She claims that files dissappear for no reason. This probably needs
> > to be clarified. She discards the possibility of kids deleting files
> > by accident.
>
> Yes, this deserves further clarification. It's a very wide issue, so
> we'll need a way to track all the different circumstances in which
> data reliability can happen. The journal data store was rewritten in
> 0.84 with increasing reliability on mind, but I guess it will take a
> while to update all machines to that or later versions of Sugar.
>
> > Now the question is, how can we get these questions in reasonable
> > shape so it is useful information for debugging?
>
> That's the Million Laptops Question ;)
>
> We are doing nice progress on this, but it's a really big task.
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Tomeu
>
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Gabriel
> >
> >
> > -- Mensaje reenviado --
> >
> > Quisiera que supieras que tenemos algunos problemas con varias cosas
> > en la xo y me parece que son puntos importantes para que podamos
> > trabajar mejor con la máquina. te paso algunos, y vos ves si pueden
> > hacer algo al respecto.
> > Las redes malla siguen funcionando mal, y desde que se actualizaron
> > las máquinas es peor, son muy pocos los niños que logran entrar en la
> > misma red.
> > He tenido dificultades cuando guardo en el pen drive textos realizados
> > en write, los leo con el open office y luego vuelvo a cargarlo en sus
> >  máquinas y no me los lee, aún cuando no les realizo ninguna
> > modificación. Probé cambiándole el formato a pdf, que sé que las xo lo
> > leen, y no pude, cuando abro el pen en la xo y hago clic en el
> > archivo, ahí puedo ver que está el texto (no lo abrió aún) y hago clic
> > en retomar y qqueda la hoja en blanco. no tengo idea como voy  a hacer
> > para que reparen el texto si ellos no lo bajan en la xo.
> > yo no entiendo, pensé que al tener kubuntu y el open office podría
> > trabajar igual que los niños, pasando de una máquina a la otra sin
> > problemas. Necesito saber más para poder manejarme mejor.
> > otra dificultad que encontré es que en el social calc, la planilla
> > electrónica, a la mitad de los chicos se les borra la información al
> > guardar, es decir, queda en el journal como guardada, pero los datos
> > no aparecen en pantalla cuando abrís.
> > Pasa mucho que les desaparecen los archivos, se les borran solos.
> > Antes creía que eran ellos que los borraban sin querer, pero ahora me
> > doy cuenta que es

Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Tomeu Vizoso]

2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
> Hi all,
>
> I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
> request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
>
> 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
> "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.

Not sure we can debug this remotely :/

Andrés, do you know about any work in the Ceibal plan to determine the
reliability of the mesh network?

> 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
> home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
> in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
> she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
>
> 3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
> pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").
>
> 4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
> move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.

I understand the frustration, do you think we could get copies of
those files and more details about the workflow?

About usb sticks, in versions earlier than 0.84 we are using a scheme
that is quite fragile, specially when using the same stick with
non-sugar computers.

I would recommend deleting the .olpc.store in the usb stick after
every usage in a non-sugar computer and see if weird things stop
happening. If this helps somehow, then we should find a way to
publicize this trick. Note that from Sugar 0.84 this is not needed.

> 5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
> Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.

Manu, know anything about it? I guess having a ticket with the
activity logs would help here.

> 6) She claims that files dissappear for no reason. This probably needs
> to be clarified. She discards the possibility of kids deleting files
> by accident.

Yes, this deserves further clarification. It's a very wide issue, so
we'll need a way to track all the different circumstances in which
data reliability can happen. The journal data store was rewritten in
0.84 with increasing reliability on mind, but I guess it will take a
while to update all machines to that or later versions of Sugar.

> Now the question is, how can we get these questions in reasonable
> shape so it is useful information for debugging?

That's the Million Laptops Question ;)

We are doing nice progress on this, but it's a really big task.

Thanks a lot,

Tomeu

> Thanks,
>
> Gabriel
>
>
> -- Mensaje reenviado --
>
> Quisiera que supieras que tenemos algunos problemas con varias cosas
> en la xo y me parece que son puntos importantes para que podamos
> trabajar mejor con la máquina. te paso algunos, y vos ves si pueden
> hacer algo al respecto.
> Las redes malla siguen funcionando mal, y desde que se actualizaron
> las máquinas es peor, son muy pocos los niños que logran entrar en la
> misma red.
> He tenido dificultades cuando guardo en el pen drive textos realizados
> en write, los leo con el open office y luego vuelvo a cargarlo en sus
>  máquinas y no me los lee, aún cuando no les realizo ninguna
> modificación. Probé cambiándole el formato a pdf, que sé que las xo lo
> leen, y no pude, cuando abro el pen en la xo y hago clic en el
> archivo, ahí puedo ver que está el texto (no lo abrió aún) y hago clic
> en retomar y qqueda la hoja en blanco. no tengo idea como voy  a hacer
> para que reparen el texto si ellos no lo bajan en la xo.
> yo no entiendo, pensé que al tener kubuntu y el open office podría
> trabajar igual que los niños, pasando de una máquina a la otra sin
> problemas. Necesito saber más para poder manejarme mejor.
> otra dificultad que encontré es que en el social calc, la planilla
> electrónica, a la mitad de los chicos se les borra la información al
> guardar, es decir, queda en el journal como guardada, pero los datos
> no aparecen en pantalla cuando abrís.
> Pasa mucho que les desaparecen los archivos, se les borran solos.
> Antes creía que eran ellos que los borraban sin querer, pero ahora me
> doy cuenta que es así.
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>



-- 
«Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar.
What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David
Farning
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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Tomeu Vizoso]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 23:16, Sascha
Silbe wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 04:32:08PM -0300, Gabriel Eirea wrote:
>
>> 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
>> home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
>> in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
>> she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
>
> To me this sounds like OpenOffice is saving a later version of the
> OpenDocument (ODT) format than Write understands (similar to Microsoft Word
> 95 not being able to read documents that have been written by Microsoft Word
> 97). In that case, there may be a way to tell Open Office to save in the
> older ODT version, so that Write can still read it.
> I hope someone else more proficient with Write (Abiword) and OpenOffice will
> either confirm or disprove my suspicion.

Yes, would be awesome to get those files and see in which format are.

Thanks,

Tomeu

> CU Sascha
>
> --
> http://sascha.silbe.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Sascha Silbe]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 04:32:08PM -0300, Gabriel Eirea wrote:


2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
To me this sounds like OpenOffice is saving a later version of the 
OpenDocument (ODT) format than Write understands (similar to Microsoft 
Word 95 not being able to read documents that have been written by 
Microsoft Word 97). In that case, there may be a way to tell Open Office 
to save in the older ODT version, so that Write can still read it.
I hope someone else more proficient with Write (Abiword) and OpenOffice 
will either confirm or disprove my suspicion.


CU Sascha

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Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Walter Bender]

2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea :
> Hi all,
>
> I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
> request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.

Thanks. This is very helpful.

>
> 1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
> "network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.

I wonder how we can get access to these builds? It is not obvious from
afar what versions of the various tools are being used in Ceibal.

> 2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
> home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
> in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
> she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
>
> 3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
> pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").
>
> 4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
> move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.
>
> 5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
> Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.
>
> 6) She claims that files dissappear for no reason. This probably needs
> to be clarified. She discards the possibility of kids deleting files
> by accident.
>
> Now the question is, how can we get these questions in reasonable
> shape so it is useful information for debugging?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gabriel
>
>
> -- Mensaje reenviado --
>
> Quisiera que supieras que tenemos algunos problemas con varias cosas
> en la xo y me parece que son puntos importantes para que podamos
> trabajar mejor con la máquina. te paso algunos, y vos ves si pueden
> hacer algo al respecto.
> Las redes malla siguen funcionando mal, y desde que se actualizaron
> las máquinas es peor, son muy pocos los niños que logran entrar en la
> misma red.
> He tenido dificultades cuando guardo en el pen drive textos realizados
> en write, los leo con el open office y luego vuelvo a cargarlo en sus
>  máquinas y no me los lee, aún cuando no les realizo ninguna
> modificación. Probé cambiándole el formato a pdf, que sé que las xo lo
> leen, y no pude, cuando abro el pen en la xo y hago clic en el
> archivo, ahí puedo ver que está el texto (no lo abrió aún) y hago clic
> en retomar y qqueda la hoja en blanco. no tengo idea como voy  a hacer
> para que reparen el texto si ellos no lo bajan en la xo.
> yo no entiendo, pensé que al tener kubuntu y el open office podría
> trabajar igual que los niños, pasando de una máquina a la otra sin
> problemas. Necesito saber más para poder manejarme mejor.
> otra dificultad que encontré es que en el social calc, la planilla
> electrónica, a la mitad de los chicos se les borra la información al
> guardar, es decir, queda en el journal como guardada, pero los datos
> no aparecen en pantalla cuando abrís.
> Pasa mucho que les desaparecen los archivos, se les borran solos.
> Antes creía que eran ellos que los borraban sin querer, pero ahora me
> doy cuenta que es así.
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[Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

[Gabriel Eirea]

Hi all,

I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.

1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
"network". She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.

2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
she can't open it even if the document was not modified.

3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a "blank page").

4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.

5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.

6) She claims that files dissappear for no reason. This probably needs
to be clarified. She discards the possibility of kids deleting files
by accident.

Now the question is, how can we get these questions in reasonable
shape so it is useful information for debugging?

Thanks,

Gabriel


-- Mensaje reenviado --

Quisiera que supieras que tenemos algunos problemas con varias cosas
en la xo y me parece que son puntos importantes para que podamos
trabajar mejor con la máquina. te paso algunos, y vos ves si pueden
hacer algo al respecto.
Las redes malla siguen funcionando mal, y desde que se actualizaron
las máquinas es peor, son muy pocos los niños que logran entrar en la
misma red.
He tenido dificultades cuando guardo en el pen drive textos realizados
en write, los leo con el open office y luego vuelvo a cargarlo en sus
 máquinas y no me los lee, aún cuando no les realizo ninguna
modificación. Probé cambiándole el formato a pdf, que sé que las xo lo
leen, y no pude, cuando abro el pen en la xo y hago clic en el
archivo, ahí puedo ver que está el texto (no lo abrió aún) y hago clic
en retomar y qqueda la hoja en blanco. no tengo idea como voy  a hacer
para que reparen el texto si ellos no lo bajan en la xo.
yo no entiendo, pensé que al tener kubuntu y el open office podría
trabajar igual que los niños, pasando de una máquina a la otra sin
problemas. Necesito saber más para poder manejarme mejor.
otra dificultad que encontré es que en el social calc, la planilla
electrónica, a la mitad de los chicos se les borra la información al
guardar, es decir, queda en el journal como guardada, pero los datos
no aparecen en pantalla cuando abrís.
Pasa mucho que les desaparecen los archivos, se les borran solos.
Antes creía que eran ellos que los borraban sin querer, pero ahora me
doy cuenta que es así.
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