Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] SoaS: Searching for Decision Panel volunteers.
> For long-term security and support, we could adopt the Linux model: push > this concern down to the distributors and let them do a profitable > business out of it. > > This creates a sustainable market for Sugar. Linux distributors who > have successfully built a reputation for offering good customer support, > such as Red Hat, do make good profits and do reinvest a large part > of them to contribute back to Linux development. Everyone wins. > I'm afraid you cannot « push » anything down to the distributors. Distributions will do what they do: package Sugar and let users do whatever they want to with it. However, as far as I can see right now, there is no identifiable market for Sugar. Yes, there are potentials, but until there is a distinct product, there is no market. Getting Sugar into the distributions, while worthy and necessary, does not guarantee the creation of that product. -- Philippe -- The trouble with common sense is that it is so uncommon. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] SoaS: Searching for Decision Panel volunteers.
Philippe Clérié wrote: >> I don't quite understand this decision panel stuff. >> Is a different decision panel elected every time there is an undecided >> issue at hand? Or do we elect one group that remains in place for all >> unanswered questions, present and future? >> > > I sympathize since I'm also a bit confused. This is what I would call a > policy decision. It's not an administrative or a technical problem that > needs to be resolved. It's a choice between several, possibly equally valid > ways of going forward. It's *policy* and that belongs to the board I would > think. > > (Caution: I have not read the rules of engagement! :-)) The Decision Panel stuff is in Sugar Labs's Constitution, and the wording is fairly clear. The way I think of it, 1. The Oversight Board's task is to do all the routine administrative drudgery to keep Sugar Labs running, especially in regard to keeping our paperwork in order with the Software Freedom Conservancy. They should be elected for their diligence, not their insight. 2. In general, when decisions need to be made, they will be made on the mailing lists by rough consensus, running code, and sheer force of action. 3. When a question arises that causes the mailing list to deadlock in disagreement, and the issue must be resolved in a timely fashion, the Oversight Board may convene a Decision Panel. The Decision Panel must reach a conclusion on the issues in question, and write up a report on their decision. The purpose of the report is mostly to smooth the feathers of those who disagree, so that they can at least see that the decision, even if it was wrong, was at least made based on a process of careful reasoning with good intentions. 4. Everybody goes back to business, and because the Oversight Board was not responsible for the decision, those whose opinion was overruled do not have to feel that the project's management is somehow hostile to them. When people are threatening to fork the whole damn project, this is a good indication that it might be time for a Decision Panel. On the issue of who can say what "SoaS" is ... I think we can afford to flame a little more on the lists. --Ben Schwartz signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] SoaS: Searching for Decision Panel volunteers.
El Sun, 20-09-2009 a las 09:33 -0500, Yamandu Ploskonka escribió: > Because of my ignorant ways in interpreting things, which I trust is > also the way of the populace :-), I think the wisest thing is to keep > the SOaS moniker as a basic SLs thing, of course, of course > recognizing Sebastian. I mean, because he sort of "owns" SOaS", I > would say he sort of owns SLs itself, in a way (at least, much more > than people like I) While Sebastian's contribution to SoaS has been predominant, besides him there are also a bunch of other people who deserve acknowledgment: 207 Sebastian Dziallas 152 Martin Dengler 27 Marco Pesenti Gritti 11 Aleksey Lim 11 Simon Schampijer 9 Daniel Drake This is by counting the number of patches. There are many other possible metrics, some of which may result in a different ranking. Tomeu's proposal to distinguish the distros by fully qualifying them as "Fedora SoaS" or "SUSE SoaS" attempts to be fair, but is not very feasible. It reminds very much of "GNU/Linux": while it's probably more correct, people already got into the habit of saying "Linux", which also happens to be shorter and easier to pronounce. People are naturally inclined to shorten words, not make them longer! Like it or not, at this point SoaS will irreversibly identify the Fedora SoaS. The maintainers of other live USB distros could still call theirs something like "SUSE SoaS", but it would simply sound terrible, wouldn't it? They'd be better off finding an entirely new name such as Live Sugar, Trisquel Sugar, or something more creative. > [...] > > However, I was certain yesterday, and so I am today, that Caroline > would never act as a "squatter", at the very worst she will allow nice > links to be on her page that would get people to SOaSF or SOaSU or > SOaSO or whatever. The http://sugaronastick.com website appears to be designed for end-users who are not technical enough to appreciate the difference between a Fedora, an Ubuntu and a SUSE. I wouldn't complain if Caroline decided to showcase just the SoaS variant that she thinks would work best for her customers, or that it's easier for her to support. It's up to her to decide, because she's the one doing all the work and paying the hosting bill. People behind other USB live distros of Sugar can certainly do the same: register another domain, say SugarLive.com or TrisquelSugar.org, and do good branding. Of course, in a good community all these people would try to work together rather than pointlessly compete with each other. The Sugar Labs Infrastructure Team can offer free disk space and bandwidth to host such a project. Are there any volunteers to do it? -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] SoaS: Searching for Decision Panel volunteers.
-- Philippe -- The trouble with common sense is that it is so uncommon. On Sunday 20 September 2009 07:34:51 Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > 2009/9/20 Philippe Clérié : > >> But the idea is for SLs to market only "Sugar on a Stick", whatever it > >> is based on. > > > > Exactly. So what it is based on is (or should be) irrelevant to the > > customers. > > Right, that's why the longer names such as "Debian Sugar on a Stick" > would refer to teams and the images that they produce, not to what SLs > markets. No problem here. That's internal, private, not for public consumption. We can use any names we want. > > Regards, > > Tomeu > > > -- > > > > > > Philippe > > > > -- > > The trouble with common sense is that it is so uncommon. > > > > > > On Sunday 20 September 2009 07:24:42 Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >> 2009/9/20 Philippe Clérié : > >> >> So, a possible solution could be calling the product marketed by > >> >> SLs "Sugar on a Stick" and each individual team and product "Fedora > >> >> Sugar on a Stick", "OpenSUSE Sugar on a Stick", etc. From time to > >> >> time SLs would decide to call and market as "Sugar on a Stick" a > >> >> particular release of a particular flavor. This decision process > >> >> should be very transparent and fair, of course. > >> > > >> > This naming scheme may be politically correct, but from a marketing > >> > stand point it's probably not a good idea. I believe the pros would > >> > say "it dilutes the brand". Then again I'm not a marketing > >> > professional so I'll leave it at that. > >> > >> But the idea is for SLs to market only "Sugar on a Stick", whatever it > >> is based on. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Tomeu > >> > >> > FWIW I'm using the OpenSuse version since that was the one I could > >> > install on my hard disk. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > > >> > Philippe > >> > > >> > -- > >> > The trouble with common sense is that it is so uncommon. > >> > > >> > ___ > >> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > >> > i...@lists.sugarlabs.org > >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > > > > ___ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] SoaS: Searching for Decision Panel volunteers.
2009/9/20 Philippe Clérié : >> I don't quite understand this decision panel stuff. >> Is a different decision panel elected every time there is an undecided >> issue at hand? Or do we elect one group that remains in place for all >> unanswered questions, present and future? >> > > I sympathize since I'm also a bit confused. This is what I would call a > policy decision. It's not an administrative or a technical problem that > needs to be resolved. It's a choice between several, possibly equally valid > ways of going forward. It's *policy* and that belongs to the board I would > think. AFAIUI, the decision would be taken by the SLOBs after the panel would give them a recommendation. Regards, Tomeu > (Caution: I have not read the rules of engagement! :-)) > > -- > > Philippe > > -- > The trouble with common sense is that it is so uncommon. > > > On Sunday 20 September 2009 03:47:59 Daniel Drake wrote: > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > i...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- «Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar. What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David Farning ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] SoaS: Searching for Decision Panel volunteers.
> I don't quite understand this decision panel stuff. > Is a different decision panel elected every time there is an undecided > issue at hand? Or do we elect one group that remains in place for all > unanswered questions, present and future? > I sympathize since I'm also a bit confused. This is what I would call a policy decision. It's not an administrative or a technical problem that needs to be resolved. It's a choice between several, possibly equally valid ways of going forward. It's *policy* and that belongs to the board I would think. (Caution: I have not read the rules of engagement! :-)) -- Philippe -- The trouble with common sense is that it is so uncommon. On Sunday 20 September 2009 03:47:59 Daniel Drake wrote: ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] SoaS: Searching for Decision Panel volunteers.
2009/9/20 Philippe Clérié : >> But the idea is for SLs to market only "Sugar on a Stick", whatever it >> is based on. >> > > Exactly. So what it is based on is (or should be) irrelevant to the > customers. Right, that's why the longer names such as "Debian Sugar on a Stick" would refer to teams and the images that they produce, not to what SLs markets. Regards, Tomeu > -- > > > Philippe > > -- > The trouble with common sense is that it is so uncommon. > > > On Sunday 20 September 2009 07:24:42 Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> 2009/9/20 Philippe Clérié : >> >> So, a possible solution could be calling the product marketed by SLs >> >> "Sugar on a Stick" and each individual team and product "Fedora Sugar >> >> on a Stick", "OpenSUSE Sugar on a Stick", etc. From time to time SLs >> >> would decide to call and market as "Sugar on a Stick" a particular >> >> release of a particular flavor. This decision process should be very >> >> transparent and fair, of course. >> > >> > This naming scheme may be politically correct, but from a marketing >> > stand point it's probably not a good idea. I believe the pros would say >> > "it dilutes the brand". Then again I'm not a marketing professional so >> > I'll leave it at that. >> >> But the idea is for SLs to market only "Sugar on a Stick", whatever it >> is based on. >> >> Regards, >> >> Tomeu >> >> > FWIW I'm using the OpenSuse version since that was the one I could >> > install on my hard disk. >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Philippe >> > >> > -- >> > The trouble with common sense is that it is so uncommon. >> > >> > ___ >> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> > i...@lists.sugarlabs.org >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- «Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar. What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David Farning ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] SoaS: Searching for Decision Panel volunteers.
> But the idea is for SLs to market only "Sugar on a Stick", whatever it > is based on. > Exactly. So what it is based on is (or should be) irrelevant to the customers. -- Philippe -- The trouble with common sense is that it is so uncommon. On Sunday 20 September 2009 07:24:42 Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > 2009/9/20 Philippe Clérié : > >> So, a possible solution could be calling the product marketed by SLs > >> "Sugar on a Stick" and each individual team and product "Fedora Sugar > >> on a Stick", "OpenSUSE Sugar on a Stick", etc. From time to time SLs > >> would decide to call and market as "Sugar on a Stick" a particular > >> release of a particular flavor. This decision process should be very > >> transparent and fair, of course. > > > > This naming scheme may be politically correct, but from a marketing > > stand point it's probably not a good idea. I believe the pros would say > > "it dilutes the brand". Then again I'm not a marketing professional so > > I'll leave it at that. > > But the idea is for SLs to market only "Sugar on a Stick", whatever it > is based on. > > Regards, > > Tomeu > > > FWIW I'm using the OpenSuse version since that was the one I could > > install on my hard disk. > > > > -- > > > > Philippe > > > > -- > > The trouble with common sense is that it is so uncommon. > > > > ___ > > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > > i...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] SoaS: Searching for Decision Panel volunteers.
2009/9/20 Philippe Clérié : >> So, a possible solution could be calling the product marketed by SLs >> "Sugar on a Stick" and each individual team and product "Fedora Sugar >> on a Stick", "OpenSUSE Sugar on a Stick", etc. From time to time SLs >> would decide to call and market as "Sugar on a Stick" a particular >> release of a particular flavor. This decision process should be very >> transparent and fair, of course. >> > > This naming scheme may be politically correct, but from a marketing stand > point it's probably not a good idea. I believe the pros would say "it > dilutes the brand". Then again I'm not a marketing professional so I'll > leave it at that. But the idea is for SLs to market only "Sugar on a Stick", whatever it is based on. Regards, Tomeu > FWIW I'm using the OpenSuse version since that was the one I could install > on my hard disk. > > -- > > Philippe > > -- > The trouble with common sense is that it is so uncommon. > > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > i...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- «Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar. What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David Farning ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
