Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello

[James Cameron]

Welcome.

No, not really.  Most source code, but not all, is on
https://github.com/sugarlabs in various repositories.  There is no
single repository for all of Sugar Labs.

As you are focusing on web development, you can look first at
Sugarizer at https://github.com/llaske/sugarizer and also Music Blocks
at https://github.com/sugarlabs/musicblocks ... the other web apps are
either inside Sugarizer or maintained in separate repositories and ZIP
files.

Please also read "How to get started as a Sugar Labs developer [v9]"
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2020-January/057643.html

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 08:06:44AM +0530, Shrey tripathi wrote:
> Hello there,
> I am Shrey Tripathi, an aspiring web developer, and I want to contribute to
> Sugar Labs. In order to get familiar with the codebase of Sugar Labs, can
> anyone please help me out about where to start?
> Regards,
> Shrey Tripathi
> 

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> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel


-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello guys please i want to ask if any one can help me on how to convert colors that are in hex to the color name :)

[Amaan Iqbal]

As James pointed out, there is very less color names than all possible hex
colors. There are in total 256*256*256 different RGB colors combinations
and it's silly if someone starts to assign them names. Even many colors can
be formed by a range of RGB combinations which cannot be distinguished.

Maybe we can help more if you could tell for what purpose it's required.



Regards,
Amaan

On Dec 1, 2018 1:30 AM, "Sean DALY"  wrote:

> One possible approach could be to model a hex-name lookup table such as on
> this page [1], rounding to the nearest named color. Some ideas are here [2].
>
> Sean
>
> 1. https://imagemagick.org/script/color.php
> 2. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/38923744/how-to-map-
> a-range-of-hex-values-to-a-color
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 4:47 PM Walter Bender 
> wrote:
>
>> Not a very easy task. I have some code that could get you a Munsell
>> representation of the color (the hue designation as well as its lightness
>> and vividness, but you'd still need to determine that dark orange == brown,
>> etc.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 4:17 PM Joel Arrey  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Walter Bender
>> Sugar Labs
>> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>> 
>> ___
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>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>
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>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello guys please i want to ask if any one can help me on how to convert colors that are in hex to the color name :)

[Sean DALY]

One possible approach could be to model a hex-name lookup table such as on
this page [1], rounding to the nearest named color. Some ideas are here [2].

Sean

1. https://imagemagick.org/script/color.php
2.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/38923744/how-to-map-a-range-of-hex-values-to-a-color



On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 4:47 PM Walter Bender 
wrote:

> Not a very easy task. I have some code that could get you a Munsell
> representation of the color (the hue designation as well as its lightness
> and vividness, but you'd still need to determine that dark orange == brown,
> etc.
>
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 4:17 PM Joel Arrey  wrote:
>
>>
>> ___
>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> 
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> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello guys please i want to ask if any one can help me on how to convert colors that are in hex to the color name :)

[Walter Bender]

Not a very easy task. I have some code that could get you a Munsell
representation of the color (the hue designation as well as its lightness
and vividness, but you'd still need to determine that dark orange == brown,
etc.

On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 4:17 PM Joel Arrey  wrote:

>
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>


-- 
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Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello guys please i want to ask if any one can help me on how to convert colors that are in hex to the color name :)

[James Cameron]

There are fewer colour names than combinations of hex digits.

For some colours, there is no name.

Google "how to convert colours from hex to name?" gives some ideas.

Please put question in body of e-mail, and use subject as summary.

-- 
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http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello!

[Chihurumnaya Ibiam]

Hey Divyadeep, you can check out https://developer.sugarlabs.org/.

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Divyadeep Singh <
divyadeep.singh962...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone, my name is Divyadeep Singh and I am an engineering student
> from India. I am just starting with open source softwares and I chose
> sugar-labs as I found it interesting and it's made using python (I have
> been learning python since the last 7 months). I want to start contributing
> to sugar-labs and I hope that it would be an enjoyable and educational
> experience.
>
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>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] hello from Nexcopy - Recycle USB

[Peter Robinson]

I can create a customer image for a 2Gb stick with some other fixes
pulled in that can just be dd:ed onto the stick by nexcopy but I won't
be able to do it until next weekend.

Peter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote:
 Replication is not the issue (we have Nexcopy, after all). So a 2GB
 image with some persistent storage, even if liveinstall doesn't work,
 would be the target.

 -walter

 On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Thomas Gilliard
 satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:
 On 01/20/2013 11:20 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

 Is there no longer a 2GB image available?

 -walter

 On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Thomas Gilliard
 satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:

 On 01/18/2013 06:57 PM, Greg Morris, Nexcopy wrote:

 Ok. Great. I can send them to that address.

 Waiting for download link and we'll get them done Tues and ship out.

 Regards,
 Greg
 
 Sorry for the short eMail, sent from my iPhone.

 On Jan 18, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hey. That's great!!

 I'm CCing Peter and Thom to see what image they recommend.

 Maybe the best address would be:

 Walter Bender
 22 Central St.
 Newton, MA 02466

 Many thanks.

 -walter

 On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Greg Morris - Nexcopy
 gr...@nexcopy.com wrote:

 Hi Walter,

 I hope this email finds you well and happy new year!

 We have about 200 drives we can send you.

 -- can you provide the most current download link for Sugar?
 -- can you provide an address to send the USB sticks

 If there is anything new you can report...I'd be happy to hear it.

 Respectfully,
 Greg

 GREG MORRIS | NEXCOPY INC.
 P: 949 481 6478 X 112 | email: gr...@nexcopy.com | web:
 www.nexcopy.com



 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org

 Walter;
 Look at this tutorial [1]

   [1]

 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Tutorials/Installation/How_to_make_a_SoaS.img_file_for_repeated_installs_to_4_GB_USB%27s

   Download a prebuilt .img file:
 http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

 This command can be repeated for multiple USB's:

 Note it takes about 10 minutes to write to each 4 GB USB

 use mount command to confirm USB device name and edit: of=/dev/sd(x)

 [root@localhost Desktop]# dd if=Soas_8.img of=/dev/sdc bs=2M
 1912+0 records in
 1912+0 records out
 4009754624 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 587.133 s, 6.8 MB/s
 [root@localhost Desktop]#



 This is a real netinstall of f18 sugar-desktop to a 4 GB USB with
 firstboot
 not yet run*
 It boots from the USB once written (see tutorial
 root=sugarroot
 *user name and colors are set in firstboot

 Tom Gilliard
 satellit





 Walter;
 The problem is that the command liveinst does not install to USB at the
 moment
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=896687
 So it is now only possible to create a USB stick with the dd command:

  [root@localhost RC4]# dd if=Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso of=/dev/sd(x)*
 bs=2M
  288+0 records in
  288+0 records out
  603979776 bytes (604 MB) copied, 177.758 s, 3.4 MB/s

 of=/dev/sd(x)* use mount command to get device name of the mounted USB

 -Note that it will have no persistence

 The 4 GB .img file has persistence as it is a regular ext4 netinstall of
 Sugar-desktop to USB (Thus larger in size)

  http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

 It would be easier to just use the above command from fedora 18 terminal
 repeatedly on each new 2 GB USB using the downloaded file;

 http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/releases/18/Spins/x86_64/Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso
 -Note it only takes about 3 minutes per USB  (177.758 s)

 Cordially;

 Tom Gilliard
 satellit on #sugar





 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [Sugar-devel] hello from Nexcopy - Recycle USB

[Thomas Gilliard]

On 01/21/2013 02:10 AM, Peter Robinson wrote:

I can create a customer image for a 2Gb stick with some other fixes
pulled in that can just be dd:ed onto the stick by nexcopy but I won't
be able to do it until next weekend.

Peter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote:

Replication is not the issue (we have Nexcopy, after all). So a 2GB
image with some persistent storage, even if liveinstall doesn't work,
would be the target.

-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Thomas Gilliard
satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:

On 01/20/2013 11:20 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

Is there no longer a 2GB image available?

-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Thomas Gilliard
satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:

On 01/18/2013 06:57 PM, Greg Morris, Nexcopy wrote:

Ok. Great. I can send them to that address.

Waiting for download link and we'll get them done Tues and ship out.

Regards,
Greg

Sorry for the short eMail, sent from my iPhone.

On Jan 18, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
wrote:


Hey. That's great!!

I'm CCing Peter and Thom to see what image they recommend.

Maybe the best address would be:

Walter Bender
22 Central St.
Newton, MA 02466

Many thanks.

-walter

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Greg Morris - Nexcopy
gr...@nexcopy.com wrote:

Hi Walter,

I hope this email finds you well and happy new year!

We have about 200 drives we can send you.

-- can you provide the most current download link for Sugar?
-- can you provide an address to send the USB sticks

If there is anything new you can report...I'd be happy to hear it.

Respectfully,
Greg

GREG MORRIS | NEXCOPY INC.
P: 949 481 6478 X 112 | email: gr...@nexcopy.com | web:
www.nexcopy.com



--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

Walter;
Look at this tutorial [1]

   [1]

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Tutorials/Installation/How_to_make_a_SoaS.img_file_for_repeated_installs_to_4_GB_USB%27s

   Download a prebuilt .img file:
http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

This command can be repeated for multiple USB's:

Note it takes about 10 minutes to write to each 4 GB USB

use mount command to confirm USB device name and edit: of=/dev/sd(x)

[root@localhost Desktop]# dd if=Soas_8.img of=/dev/sdc bs=2M
1912+0 records in
1912+0 records out
4009754624 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 587.133 s, 6.8 MB/s
[root@localhost Desktop]#



This is a real netinstall of f18 sugar-desktop to a 4 GB USB with
firstboot
not yet run*
It boots from the USB once written (see tutorial
root=sugarroot
*user name and colors are set in firstboot

Tom Gilliard
satellit






Walter;
The problem is that the command liveinst does not install to USB at the
moment
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=896687
So it is now only possible to create a USB stick with the dd command:

  [root@localhost RC4]# dd if=Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso of=/dev/sd(x)*
bs=2M
  288+0 records in
  288+0 records out
  603979776 bytes (604 MB) copied, 177.758 s, 3.4 MB/s

of=/dev/sd(x)* use mount command to get device name of the mounted USB

-Note that it will have no persistence

The 4 GB .img file has persistence as it is a regular ext4 netinstall of
Sugar-desktop to USB (Thus larger in size)

  http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

It would be easier to just use the above command from fedora 18 terminal
repeatedly on each new 2 GB USB using the downloaded file;

http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/releases/18/Spins/x86_64/Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso
-Note it only takes about 3 minutes per USB  (177.758 s)

Cordially;

Tom Gilliard
satellit on #sugar





--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Peter;

The request was for a 2 GB f18 Soas USB with persistence.
 dd does work on a 2 GB USB but A dd'd  USB is not persistent.

I tried all of the ways I know to work around the inability to run 
liveinst and anaconda in sugar-terminal. [2]


-f18 SoaS-live Liveusb-creator works but does not seem to be persistent, 
even though it writes a persistence file : It will not restart after 
shutdown from first run.

   Stops at the first screen on reboot

-f18 Netinstall x86_64  [1] of sugar-desktop (Not SoaS) works and I 
produced a 4 GB USB .img   (but Walter thinks the free USB's are 2 GB)
   http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img 3.7G  Full 
netinstall of Sugar-desktop to a ext4 / on 4 Gb USB


-livecd-to disk makes a 2 GB USB with 500mb persistence and /home 500mb 
that works and is persistent
   http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8_litd.img   1.9G This 
will not be as rugged as the above 4 GB .img and will fill up eventually


   [1] 
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Tutorials/Installation/How_to_make_a_SoaS.img_file_for_repeated_installs_to_4_GB_USB%27s


The bugs I mentioned are 

Re: [Sugar-devel] hello from Nexcopy - Recycle USB

[Thomas Gilliard]

On 01/21/2013 07:16 AM, Greg Morris, Nexcopy wrote:

We don't need dd. we already have binary copiers. You should really go to our 
site

www.nexcopy.com

Just give me the IMG file.

Regards,
Greg

Sorry for the short eMail, sent from my iPhone.

On Jan 21, 2013, at 2:10 AM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:


I can create a customer image for a 2Gb stick with some other fixes
pulled in that can just be dd:ed onto the stick by nexcopy but I won't
be able to do it until next weekend.

Peter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote:

Replication is not the issue (we have Nexcopy, after all). So a 2GB
image with some persistent storage, even if liveinstall doesn't work,
would be the target.

-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Thomas Gilliard
satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:

On 01/20/2013 11:20 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

Is there no longer a 2GB image available?

-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Thomas Gilliard
satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:

On 01/18/2013 06:57 PM, Greg Morris, Nexcopy wrote:

Ok. Great. I can send them to that address.

Waiting for download link and we'll get them done Tues and ship out.

Regards,
Greg

Sorry for the short eMail, sent from my iPhone.

On Jan 18, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
wrote:


Hey. That's great!!

I'm CCing Peter and Thom to see what image they recommend.

Maybe the best address would be:

Walter Bender
22 Central St.
Newton, MA 02466

Many thanks.

-walter

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Greg Morris - Nexcopy
gr...@nexcopy.com wrote:

Hi Walter,

I hope this email finds you well and happy new year!

We have about 200 drives we can send you.

-- can you provide the most current download link for Sugar?
-- can you provide an address to send the USB sticks

If there is anything new you can report...I'd be happy to hear it.

Respectfully,
Greg

GREG MORRIS | NEXCOPY INC.
P: 949 481 6478 X 112 | email: gr...@nexcopy.com | web:
www.nexcopy.com



--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

Walter;
Look at this tutorial [1]

  [1]

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Tutorials/Installation/How_to_make_a_SoaS.img_file_for_repeated_installs_to_4_GB_USB%27s

  Download a prebuilt .img file:
http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

This command can be repeated for multiple USB's:

Note it takes about 10 minutes to write to each 4 GB USB

use mount command to confirm USB device name and edit: of=/dev/sd(x)

[root@localhost Desktop]# dd if=Soas_8.img of=/dev/sdc bs=2M
1912+0 records in
1912+0 records out
4009754624 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 587.133 s, 6.8 MB/s
[root@localhost Desktop]#



This is a real netinstall of f18 sugar-desktop to a 4 GB USB with
firstboot
not yet run*
It boots from the USB once written (see tutorial
root=sugarroot
*user name and colors are set in firstboot

Tom Gilliard
satellit






Walter;
The problem is that the command liveinst does not install to USB at the
moment
   https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=896687
So it is now only possible to create a USB stick with the dd command:

[root@localhost RC4]# dd if=Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso of=/dev/sd(x)*
bs=2M
288+0 records in
288+0 records out
603979776 bytes (604 MB) copied, 177.758 s, 3.4 MB/s

of=/dev/sd(x)* use mount command to get device name of the mounted USB

-Note that it will have no persistence

The 4 GB .img file has persistence as it is a regular ext4 netinstall of
Sugar-desktop to USB (Thus larger in size)

http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

It would be easier to just use the above command from fedora 18 terminal
repeatedly on each new 2 GB USB using the downloaded file;

http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/releases/18/Spins/x86_64/Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso
-Note it only takes about 3 minutes per USB  (177.758 s)

Cordially;

Tom Gilliard
satellit on #sugar





--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

Persistent .img files:
As listed in the previous e-mails:

 http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8_litd.img   1.9G
  dd if=Soas_8_litd.img of=/dev/sd(x)* bs=2M

 http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G
  dd if=Soas_8.img of=/dev/sd(x)* bs=2M

Tom Gilliard
satellit #sugar

Reference:
 
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Tutorials/Installation/How_to_make_a_SoaS.img_file_for_repeated_installs_to_4_GB_USB%27s


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Re: [Sugar-devel] hello from Nexcopy - Recycle USB

[Thomas Gilliard]

On 01/18/2013 06:57 PM, Greg Morris, Nexcopy wrote:

Ok. Great. I can send them to that address.

Waiting for download link and we'll get them done Tues and ship out.

Regards,
Greg

Sorry for the short eMail, sent from my iPhone.

On Jan 18, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote:


Hey. That's great!!

I'm CCing Peter and Thom to see what image they recommend.

Maybe the best address would be:

Walter Bender
22 Central St.
Newton, MA 02466

Many thanks.

-walter

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Greg Morris - Nexcopy
gr...@nexcopy.com wrote:

Hi Walter,

I hope this email finds you well and happy new year!

We have about 200 drives we can send you.

-- can you provide the most current download link for Sugar?
-- can you provide an address to send the USB sticks

If there is anything new you can report...I'd be happy to hear it.

Respectfully,
Greg

GREG MORRIS | NEXCOPY INC.
P: 949 481 6478 X 112 | email: gr...@nexcopy.com | web: www.nexcopy.com



--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

Walter;
Look at this tutorial [1]

 [1] 
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Tutorials/Installation/How_to_make_a_SoaS.img_file_for_repeated_installs_to_4_GB_USB%27s


 Download a prebuilt .img file: 
http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download


This command can be repeated for multiple USB's:

Note it takes about 10 minutes to write to each 4 GB USB

use mount command to confirm USB device name and edit: of=/dev/sd(x)

[root@localhost Desktop]# dd if=Soas_8.img of=/dev/sdc bs=2M
1912+0 records in
1912+0 records out
4009754624 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 587.133 s, 6.8 MB/s
[root@localhost Desktop]#



This is a real netinstall of f18 sugar-desktop to a 4 GB USB with firstboot not 
yet run*
It boots from the USB once written (see tutorial
root=sugarroot
*user name and colors are set in firstboot

Tom Gilliard
satellit

 



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Re: [Sugar-devel] hello from Nexcopy - Recycle USB

[Walter Bender]

Is there no longer a 2GB image available?

-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Thomas Gilliard
satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:
 On 01/18/2013 06:57 PM, Greg Morris, Nexcopy wrote:

 Ok. Great. I can send them to that address.

 Waiting for download link and we'll get them done Tues and ship out.

 Regards,
 Greg
 
 Sorry for the short eMail, sent from my iPhone.

 On Jan 18, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hey. That's great!!

 I'm CCing Peter and Thom to see what image they recommend.

 Maybe the best address would be:

 Walter Bender
 22 Central St.
 Newton, MA 02466

 Many thanks.

 -walter

 On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Greg Morris - Nexcopy
 gr...@nexcopy.com wrote:

 Hi Walter,

 I hope this email finds you well and happy new year!

 We have about 200 drives we can send you.

 -- can you provide the most current download link for Sugar?
 -- can you provide an address to send the USB sticks

 If there is anything new you can report...I'd be happy to hear it.

 Respectfully,
 Greg

 GREG MORRIS | NEXCOPY INC.
 P: 949 481 6478 X 112 | email: gr...@nexcopy.com | web: www.nexcopy.com



 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org

 Walter;
 Look at this tutorial [1]

  [1]
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Tutorials/Installation/How_to_make_a_SoaS.img_file_for_repeated_installs_to_4_GB_USB%27s

  Download a prebuilt .img file:
 http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

 This command can be repeated for multiple USB's:

 Note it takes about 10 minutes to write to each 4 GB USB

 use mount command to confirm USB device name and edit: of=/dev/sd(x)

 [root@localhost Desktop]# dd if=Soas_8.img of=/dev/sdc bs=2M
 1912+0 records in
 1912+0 records out
 4009754624 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 587.133 s, 6.8 MB/s
 [root@localhost Desktop]#



 This is a real netinstall of f18 sugar-desktop to a 4 GB USB with firstboot
 not yet run*
 It boots from the USB once written (see tutorial
 root=sugarroot
 *user name and colors are set in firstboot

 Tom Gilliard
 satellit






-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [Sugar-devel] hello from Nexcopy - Recycle USB

[Thomas Gilliard]

On 01/20/2013 11:20 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

Is there no longer a 2GB image available?

-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Thomas Gilliard
satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:

On 01/18/2013 06:57 PM, Greg Morris, Nexcopy wrote:

Ok. Great. I can send them to that address.

Waiting for download link and we'll get them done Tues and ship out.

Regards,
Greg

Sorry for the short eMail, sent from my iPhone.

On Jan 18, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
wrote:


Hey. That's great!!

I'm CCing Peter and Thom to see what image they recommend.

Maybe the best address would be:

Walter Bender
22 Central St.
Newton, MA 02466

Many thanks.

-walter

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Greg Morris - Nexcopy
gr...@nexcopy.com wrote:

Hi Walter,

I hope this email finds you well and happy new year!

We have about 200 drives we can send you.

-- can you provide the most current download link for Sugar?
-- can you provide an address to send the USB sticks

If there is anything new you can report...I'd be happy to hear it.

Respectfully,
Greg

GREG MORRIS | NEXCOPY INC.
P: 949 481 6478 X 112 | email: gr...@nexcopy.com | web: www.nexcopy.com



--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

Walter;
Look at this tutorial [1]

  [1]
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Tutorials/Installation/How_to_make_a_SoaS.img_file_for_repeated_installs_to_4_GB_USB%27s

  Download a prebuilt .img file:
http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

This command can be repeated for multiple USB's:

Note it takes about 10 minutes to write to each 4 GB USB

use mount command to confirm USB device name and edit: of=/dev/sd(x)

[root@localhost Desktop]# dd if=Soas_8.img of=/dev/sdc bs=2M
1912+0 records in
1912+0 records out
4009754624 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 587.133 s, 6.8 MB/s
[root@localhost Desktop]#



This is a real netinstall of f18 sugar-desktop to a 4 GB USB with firstboot
not yet run*
It boots from the USB once written (see tutorial
root=sugarroot
*user name and colors are set in firstboot

Tom Gilliard
satellit







Walter;
The problem is that the command liveinst does not install to USB at 
the moment

   https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=896687
So it is now only possible to create a USB stick with the dd command:

 [root@localhost RC4]# dd if=Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso 
of=/dev/sd(x)* bs=2M

 288+0 records in
 288+0 records out
 603979776 bytes (604 MB) copied, 177.758 s, 3.4 MB/s

of=/dev/sd(x)* use mount command to get device name of the mounted USB

-Note that it will have no persistence

The 4 GB .img file has persistence as it is a regular ext4 netinstall of 
Sugar-desktop to USB (Thus larger in size)


 http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

It would be easier to just use the above command from fedora 18 terminal 
repeatedly on each new 2 GB USB using the downloaded file;

 
http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/releases/18/Spins/x86_64/Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso
-Note it only takes about 3 minutes per USB  (177.758 s)

Cordially;

Tom Gilliard
satellit on #sugar


___
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Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] hello from Nexcopy - Recycle USB

[Walter Bender]

Replication is not the issue (we have Nexcopy, after all). So a 2GB
image with some persistent storage, even if liveinstall doesn't work,
would be the target.

-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Thomas Gilliard
satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:
 On 01/20/2013 11:20 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

 Is there no longer a 2GB image available?

 -walter

 On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Thomas Gilliard
 satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:

 On 01/18/2013 06:57 PM, Greg Morris, Nexcopy wrote:

 Ok. Great. I can send them to that address.

 Waiting for download link and we'll get them done Tues and ship out.

 Regards,
 Greg
 
 Sorry for the short eMail, sent from my iPhone.

 On Jan 18, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hey. That's great!!

 I'm CCing Peter and Thom to see what image they recommend.

 Maybe the best address would be:

 Walter Bender
 22 Central St.
 Newton, MA 02466

 Many thanks.

 -walter

 On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Greg Morris - Nexcopy
 gr...@nexcopy.com wrote:

 Hi Walter,

 I hope this email finds you well and happy new year!

 We have about 200 drives we can send you.

 -- can you provide the most current download link for Sugar?
 -- can you provide an address to send the USB sticks

 If there is anything new you can report...I'd be happy to hear it.

 Respectfully,
 Greg

 GREG MORRIS | NEXCOPY INC.
 P: 949 481 6478 X 112 | email: gr...@nexcopy.com | web:
 www.nexcopy.com



 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org

 Walter;
 Look at this tutorial [1]

   [1]

 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Tutorials/Installation/How_to_make_a_SoaS.img_file_for_repeated_installs_to_4_GB_USB%27s

   Download a prebuilt .img file:
 http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

 This command can be repeated for multiple USB's:

 Note it takes about 10 minutes to write to each 4 GB USB

 use mount command to confirm USB device name and edit: of=/dev/sd(x)

 [root@localhost Desktop]# dd if=Soas_8.img of=/dev/sdc bs=2M
 1912+0 records in
 1912+0 records out
 4009754624 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 587.133 s, 6.8 MB/s
 [root@localhost Desktop]#



 This is a real netinstall of f18 sugar-desktop to a 4 GB USB with
 firstboot
 not yet run*
 It boots from the USB once written (see tutorial
 root=sugarroot
 *user name and colors are set in firstboot

 Tom Gilliard
 satellit





 Walter;
 The problem is that the command liveinst does not install to USB at the
 moment
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=896687
 So it is now only possible to create a USB stick with the dd command:

  [root@localhost RC4]# dd if=Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso of=/dev/sd(x)*
 bs=2M
  288+0 records in
  288+0 records out
  603979776 bytes (604 MB) copied, 177.758 s, 3.4 MB/s

 of=/dev/sd(x)* use mount command to get device name of the mounted USB

 -Note that it will have no persistence

 The 4 GB .img file has persistence as it is a regular ext4 netinstall of
 Sugar-desktop to USB (Thus larger in size)

  http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

 It would be easier to just use the above command from fedora 18 terminal
 repeatedly on each new 2 GB USB using the downloaded file;

 http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/releases/18/Spins/x86_64/Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso
 -Note it only takes about 3 minutes per USB  (177.758 s)

 Cordially;

 Tom Gilliard
 satellit on #sugar





-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [Sugar-devel] hello from Nexcopy - Recycle USB

[Thomas Gilliard]

On 01/20/2013 12:38 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

Replication is not the issue (we have Nexcopy, after all). So a 2GB
image with some persistent storage, even if liveinstall doesn't work,
would be the target.

-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Thomas Gilliard
satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:

On 01/20/2013 11:20 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

Is there no longer a 2GB image available?

-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Thomas Gilliard
satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:

On 01/18/2013 06:57 PM, Greg Morris, Nexcopy wrote:

Ok. Great. I can send them to that address.

Waiting for download link and we'll get them done Tues and ship out.

Regards,
Greg

Sorry for the short eMail, sent from my iPhone.

On Jan 18, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
wrote:


Hey. That's great!!

I'm CCing Peter and Thom to see what image they recommend.

Maybe the best address would be:

Walter Bender
22 Central St.
Newton, MA 02466

Many thanks.

-walter

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Greg Morris - Nexcopy
gr...@nexcopy.com wrote:

Hi Walter,

I hope this email finds you well and happy new year!

We have about 200 drives we can send you.

-- can you provide the most current download link for Sugar?
-- can you provide an address to send the USB sticks

If there is anything new you can report...I'd be happy to hear it.

Respectfully,
Greg

GREG MORRIS | NEXCOPY INC.
P: 949 481 6478 X 112 | email: gr...@nexcopy.com | web:
www.nexcopy.com



--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

Walter;
Look at this tutorial [1]

   [1]

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Tutorials/Installation/How_to_make_a_SoaS.img_file_for_repeated_installs_to_4_GB_USB%27s

   Download a prebuilt .img file:
http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

This command can be repeated for multiple USB's:

Note it takes about 10 minutes to write to each 4 GB USB

use mount command to confirm USB device name and edit: of=/dev/sd(x)

[root@localhost Desktop]# dd if=Soas_8.img of=/dev/sdc bs=2M
1912+0 records in
1912+0 records out
4009754624 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 587.133 s, 6.8 MB/s
[root@localhost Desktop]#



This is a real netinstall of f18 sugar-desktop to a 4 GB USB with
firstboot
not yet run*
It boots from the USB once written (see tutorial
root=sugarroot
*user name and colors are set in firstboot

Tom Gilliard
satellit






Walter;
The problem is that the command liveinst does not install to USB at the
moment
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=896687
So it is now only possible to create a USB stick with the dd command:

  [root@localhost RC4]# dd if=Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso of=/dev/sd(x)*
bs=2M
  288+0 records in
  288+0 records out
  603979776 bytes (604 MB) copied, 177.758 s, 3.4 MB/s

of=/dev/sd(x)* use mount command to get device name of the mounted USB

-Note that it will have no persistence

The 4 GB .img file has persistence as it is a regular ext4 netinstall of
Sugar-desktop to USB (Thus larger in size)

  http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

It would be easier to just use the above command from fedora 18 terminal
repeatedly on each new 2 GB USB using the downloaded file;

http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/releases/18/Spins/x86_64/Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso
-Note it only takes about 3 minutes per USB  (177.758 s)

Cordially;

Tom Gilliard
satellit on #sugar






Walter;

I just tested
graphical Liveusb-creator --reser-mbr in fedora 18

USB does not reboot after first start, if made with persistence.

I will test li-t d created USB next.
 (last chance for a 2 GB USB with persistence)

Tom Gilliard
satellit

Tom Gilliard




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Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] hello from Nexcopy - Recycle USB

[Thomas Gilliard]

On 01/20/2013 12:38 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

Replication is not the issue (we have Nexcopy, after all). So a 2GB
image with some persistent storage, even if liveinstall doesn't work,
would be the target.

-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Thomas Gilliard
satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:

On 01/20/2013 11:20 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

Is there no longer a 2GB image available?

-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Thomas Gilliard
satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:

On 01/18/2013 06:57 PM, Greg Morris, Nexcopy wrote:

Ok. Great. I can send them to that address.

Waiting for download link and we'll get them done Tues and ship out.

Regards,
Greg

Sorry for the short eMail, sent from my iPhone.

On Jan 18, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
wrote:


Hey. That's great!!

I'm CCing Peter and Thom to see what image they recommend.

Maybe the best address would be:

Walter Bender
22 Central St.
Newton, MA 02466

Many thanks.

-walter

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Greg Morris - Nexcopy
gr...@nexcopy.com wrote:

Hi Walter,

I hope this email finds you well and happy new year!

We have about 200 drives we can send you.

-- can you provide the most current download link for Sugar?
-- can you provide an address to send the USB sticks

If there is anything new you can report...I'd be happy to hear it.

Respectfully,
Greg

GREG MORRIS | NEXCOPY INC.
P: 949 481 6478 X 112 | email: gr...@nexcopy.com | web:
www.nexcopy.com



--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

Walter;
Look at this tutorial [1]

   [1]

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Tutorials/Installation/How_to_make_a_SoaS.img_file_for_repeated_installs_to_4_GB_USB%27s

   Download a prebuilt .img file:
http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

This command can be repeated for multiple USB's:

Note it takes about 10 minutes to write to each 4 GB USB

use mount command to confirm USB device name and edit: of=/dev/sd(x)

[root@localhost Desktop]# dd if=Soas_8.img of=/dev/sdc bs=2M
1912+0 records in
1912+0 records out
4009754624 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 587.133 s, 6.8 MB/s
[root@localhost Desktop]#



This is a real netinstall of f18 sugar-desktop to a 4 GB USB with
firstboot
not yet run*
It boots from the USB once written (see tutorial
root=sugarroot
*user name and colors are set in firstboot

Tom Gilliard
satellit






Walter;
The problem is that the command liveinst does not install to USB at the
moment
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=896687
So it is now only possible to create a USB stick with the dd command:

  [root@localhost RC4]# dd if=Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso of=/dev/sd(x)*
bs=2M
  288+0 records in
  288+0 records out
  603979776 bytes (604 MB) copied, 177.758 s, 3.4 MB/s

of=/dev/sd(x)* use mount command to get device name of the mounted USB

-Note that it will have no persistence

The 4 GB .img file has persistence as it is a regular ext4 netinstall of
Sugar-desktop to USB (Thus larger in size)

  http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

It would be easier to just use the above command from fedora 18 terminal
repeatedly on each new 2 GB USB using the downloaded file;

http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/releases/18/Spins/x86_64/Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso
-Note it only takes about 3 minutes per USB  (177.758 s)

Cordially;

Tom Gilliard
satellit on #sugar






Walter;

I am uploading this livecd-iso-to-disk 2 GB .img to sunjammer as it too 
complicated to make it work:

  (I took most of today trying to get the commands correct)

   http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8_litd.img

 it will be uploaded in abt 3 hrs
 I will then download it and do a write to USB to confirm it works

*Write to USB
I have tested it (Boots and is persistent) on #sugar IRC-10 on 2 
netbooks and 1 laptop with a 2 USB GB copy and a 4 GB USB copy using:


 # dd if=Soas_8_litd.img of=/dev/sdb bs=2M
 956+0 records in
 956+0 records out
 2004877312 bytes (2.0 GB) copied, 345.459 s, 5.8 MB/s(abt 5.75 
minutes)


Cordially;
Tom Gilliard
satellit on #sugar freenode IRC

This is the terminal output of the command as it writes a 2 GB USB with 
persistence:

 (kudos to fgross)
[root@localhost Downloads]# livecd-iso-to-disk --format --reset-mbr 
--overlay-size-mb 500 --home-size-mb 500 --delete-home 
--unencrypted-home Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso /dev/sdb1

Verifying image...
/home/satellit/Downloads/Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso: 
94a4f79c75d05bb627cdfa1585de4f35
Fragment sums: 
c24abf9bbe22b11386e232ce89163fa9ed834241aeb2dec29ee79f55f5f6

Fragment count: 20
Press [Esc] to abort check.
Checking: 100.0%

The media check is complete, the result is: PASS.

It is OK to use this media.
WARNING: THIS WILL DESTROY ANY DATA ON /dev/sdb!!!
Press Enter to continue or ctrl-c to abort

/dev/sdb: 2 bytes were erased at offset 0x01fe (dos): 55 aa
Waiting for devices to settle...
mke2fs 1.42.5 (29-Jul-2012)
Filesystem label=LIVE
OS type: Linux
Block 

Re: [Sugar-devel] hello from Nexcopy - Recycle USB

[Walter Bender]

thanks. I'll test it in the AM too.

regards.

-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Thomas Gilliard
satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:
 On 01/20/2013 12:38 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

 Replication is not the issue (we have Nexcopy, after all). So a 2GB
 image with some persistent storage, even if liveinstall doesn't work,
 would be the target.

 -walter

 On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Thomas Gilliard
 satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:

 On 01/20/2013 11:20 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

 Is there no longer a 2GB image available?

 -walter

 On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Thomas Gilliard
 satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:

 On 01/18/2013 06:57 PM, Greg Morris, Nexcopy wrote:

 Ok. Great. I can send them to that address.

 Waiting for download link and we'll get them done Tues and ship out.

 Regards,
 Greg
 
 Sorry for the short eMail, sent from my iPhone.

 On Jan 18, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hey. That's great!!

 I'm CCing Peter and Thom to see what image they recommend.

 Maybe the best address would be:

 Walter Bender
 22 Central St.
 Newton, MA 02466

 Many thanks.

 -walter

 On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Greg Morris - Nexcopy
 gr...@nexcopy.com wrote:

 Hi Walter,

 I hope this email finds you well and happy new year!

 We have about 200 drives we can send you.

 -- can you provide the most current download link for Sugar?
 -- can you provide an address to send the USB sticks

 If there is anything new you can report...I'd be happy to hear it.

 Respectfully,
 Greg

 GREG MORRIS | NEXCOPY INC.
 P: 949 481 6478 X 112 | email: gr...@nexcopy.com | web:
 www.nexcopy.com



 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org

 Walter;
 Look at this tutorial [1]

[1]


 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Tutorials/Installation/How_to_make_a_SoaS.img_file_for_repeated_installs_to_4_GB_USB%27s

Download a prebuilt .img file:
 http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

 This command can be repeated for multiple USB's:

 Note it takes about 10 minutes to write to each 4 GB USB

 use mount command to confirm USB device name and edit: of=/dev/sd(x)

 [root@localhost Desktop]# dd if=Soas_8.img of=/dev/sdc bs=2M
 1912+0 records in
 1912+0 records out
 4009754624 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 587.133 s, 6.8 MB/s
 [root@localhost Desktop]#



 This is a real netinstall of f18 sugar-desktop to a 4 GB USB with
 firstboot
 not yet run*
 It boots from the USB once written (see tutorial
 root=sugarroot
 *user name and colors are set in firstboot

 Tom Gilliard
 satellit




 Walter;
 The problem is that the command liveinst does not install to USB at the
 moment
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=896687
 So it is now only possible to create a USB stick with the dd command:

   [root@localhost RC4]# dd if=Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso
 of=/dev/sd(x)*
 bs=2M
   288+0 records in
   288+0 records out
   603979776 bytes (604 MB) copied, 177.758 s, 3.4 MB/s

 of=/dev/sd(x)* use mount command to get device name of the mounted USB

 -Note that it will have no persistence

 The 4 GB .img file has persistence as it is a regular ext4 netinstall of
 Sugar-desktop to USB (Thus larger in size)

   http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

 It would be easier to just use the above command from fedora 18 terminal
 repeatedly on each new 2 GB USB using the downloaded file;


 http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/releases/18/Spins/x86_64/Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso
 -Note it only takes about 3 minutes per USB  (177.758 s)

 Cordially;

 Tom Gilliard
 satellit on #sugar




 Walter;

 I am uploading this livecd-iso-to-disk 2 GB .img to sunjammer as it too
 complicated to make it work:
   (I took most of today trying to get the commands correct)

http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8_litd.img

  it will be uploaded in abt 3 hrs
  I will then download it and do a write to USB to confirm it works

 *Write to USB
 I have tested it (Boots and is persistent) on #sugar IRC-10 on 2 netbooks
 and 1 laptop with a 2 USB GB copy and a 4 GB USB copy using:

  # dd if=Soas_8_litd.img of=/dev/sdb bs=2M
  956+0 records in
  956+0 records out
  2004877312 bytes (2.0 GB) copied, 345.459 s, 5.8 MB/s(abt 5.75 minutes)

 Cordially;
 Tom Gilliard
 satellit on #sugar freenode IRC

 This is the terminal output of the command as it writes a 2 GB USB with
 persistence:
  (kudos to fgross)

 [root@localhost Downloads]# livecd-iso-to-disk --format --reset-mbr
 --overlay-size-mb 500 --home-size-mb 500 --delete-home --unencrypted-home
 Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso /dev/sdb1
 Verifying image...
 /home/satellit/Downloads/Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso:
 94a4f79c75d05bb627cdfa1585de4f35
 Fragment sums:
 c24abf9bbe22b11386e232ce89163fa9ed834241aeb2dec29ee79f55f5f6
 Fragment count: 20
 Press [Esc] to abort check.
 Checking: 100.0%

 The media check is complete, the result is: PASS.

 It is OK to use this media.
 WARNING: THIS 

Re: [Sugar-devel] hello from Nexcopy - Recycle USB

[Thomas Gilliard]

On 01/20/2013 08:06 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

thanks. I'll test it in the AM too.

regards.

-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Thomas Gilliard
satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:

On 01/20/2013 12:38 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

Replication is not the issue (we have Nexcopy, after all). So a 2GB
image with some persistent storage, even if liveinstall doesn't work,
would be the target.

-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Thomas Gilliard
satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:

On 01/20/2013 11:20 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

Is there no longer a 2GB image available?

-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Thomas Gilliard
satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote:

On 01/18/2013 06:57 PM, Greg Morris, Nexcopy wrote:

Ok. Great. I can send them to that address.

Waiting for download link and we'll get them done Tues and ship out.

Regards,
Greg

Sorry for the short eMail, sent from my iPhone.

On Jan 18, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
wrote:


Hey. That's great!!

I'm CCing Peter and Thom to see what image they recommend.

Maybe the best address would be:

Walter Bender
22 Central St.
Newton, MA 02466

Many thanks.

-walter

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Greg Morris - Nexcopy
gr...@nexcopy.com wrote:

Hi Walter,

I hope this email finds you well and happy new year!

We have about 200 drives we can send you.

-- can you provide the most current download link for Sugar?
-- can you provide an address to send the USB sticks

If there is anything new you can report...I'd be happy to hear it.

Respectfully,
Greg

GREG MORRIS | NEXCOPY INC.
P: 949 481 6478 X 112 | email: gr...@nexcopy.com | web:
www.nexcopy.com



--
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Walter;
Look at this tutorial [1]

[1]


http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Tutorials/Installation/How_to_make_a_SoaS.img_file_for_repeated_installs_to_4_GB_USB%27s

Download a prebuilt .img file:
http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

This command can be repeated for multiple USB's:

Note it takes about 10 minutes to write to each 4 GB USB

use mount command to confirm USB device name and edit: of=/dev/sd(x)

[root@localhost Desktop]# dd if=Soas_8.img of=/dev/sdc bs=2M
1912+0 records in
1912+0 records out
4009754624 bytes (4.0 GB) copied, 587.133 s, 6.8 MB/s
[root@localhost Desktop]#



This is a real netinstall of f18 sugar-desktop to a 4 GB USB with
firstboot
not yet run*
It boots from the USB once written (see tutorial
root=sugarroot
*user name and colors are set in firstboot

Tom Gilliard
satellit




Walter;
The problem is that the command liveinst does not install to USB at the
moment
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=896687
So it is now only possible to create a USB stick with the dd command:

   [root@localhost RC4]# dd if=Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso
of=/dev/sd(x)*
bs=2M
   288+0 records in
   288+0 records out
   603979776 bytes (604 MB) copied, 177.758 s, 3.4 MB/s

of=/dev/sd(x)* use mount command to get device name of the mounted USB

-Note that it will have no persistence

The 4 GB .img file has persistence as it is a regular ext4 netinstall of
Sugar-desktop to USB (Thus larger in size)

   http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8.img   3.7G download

It would be easier to just use the above command from fedora 18 terminal
repeatedly on each new 2 GB USB using the downloaded file;


http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/releases/18/Spins/x86_64/Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso
-Note it only takes about 3 minutes per USB  (177.758 s)

Cordially;

Tom Gilliard
satellit on #sugar





Walter;

I am uploading this livecd-iso-to-disk 2 GB .img to sunjammer as it too
complicated to make it work:
   (I took most of today trying to get the commands correct)

http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/Soas_8_litd.img

  it will be uploaded in abt 3 hrs
  I will then download it and do a write to USB to confirm it works

*Write to USB
I have tested it (Boots and is persistent) on #sugar IRC-10 on 2 netbooks
and 1 laptop with a 2 USB GB copy and a 4 GB USB copy using:

  # dd if=Soas_8_litd.img of=/dev/sdb bs=2M
  956+0 records in
  956+0 records out
  2004877312 bytes (2.0 GB) copied, 345.459 s, 5.8 MB/s(abt 5.75 minutes)

Cordially;
Tom Gilliard
satellit on #sugar freenode IRC

This is the terminal output of the command as it writes a 2 GB USB with
persistence:
  (kudos to fgross)

[root@localhost Downloads]# livecd-iso-to-disk --format --reset-mbr
--overlay-size-mb 500 --home-size-mb 500 --delete-home --unencrypted-home
Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso /dev/sdb1
Verifying image...
/home/satellit/Downloads/Fedora-18-x86_64-Live-SoaS.iso:
94a4f79c75d05bb627cdfa1585de4f35
Fragment sums:
c24abf9bbe22b11386e232ce89163fa9ed834241aeb2dec29ee79f55f5f6
Fragment count: 20
Press [Esc] to abort check.
Checking: 100.0%

The media check is complete, the result is: PASS.

It is OK to use this media.
WARNING: THIS WILL DESTROY ANY DATA ON /dev/sdb!!!
Press Enter to continue 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello to everybody!

[Martin Abente]

Hello!

Have you tried Sugar On A Stick? You can run sugar on your own laptop.

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick

Saludos,
Tincho.

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 7:51 AM, Coltivare Fiori 
coltivarefi...@connettivo.net wrote:

 Hello to everybody!

 I am interested in Sugar (that's a good start, isn't it) and no, I do
 not own a OLPC :-).

 I think that Sugar may be very useful
 - with kids with some learning disabilities
 - with kids that for any reason start to dispraise learning
 - with kids that may be in contact with Internet some day and
 need to master it and not be shaped by it.


 I am ( of course ) having some technical problems and after spending
 some time on the IRC and lobbying my Public School, I think that I'm
 ready to subscribe to this mailing list.

 I am not a Python developer indeed, but I imagine that solving my issues
 will require a bit of technical knowledge so here I came.

 :-))

 Ernesto Torresin
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello to everybody!

[Coltivare Fiori]

Yes! I have tried it a LOT :-)))

Sometimes I succeeded, sometimes not really.

I'm using it on one Intel Classmate 2009 PC and I am about to test it on
two of such machines. I'll let the list know!

TIA

Ernesto

On 09/10/2012 15:04, Martin Abente wrote:
 Hello!
 
 Have you tried Sugar On A Stick? You can run sugar on your own laptop.
 
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick
 
 Saludos,
 Tincho.
 


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello to everybody!

[Art Hunkins]

FWIW, I have an Intel Classmate Go2PC, and the SoaS sticks I've made, via 
Live USB Creator (on Windows XP), have all worked fine.


I recommend Live USB Creator 3.9.3 for recent builds of SoaS, as it does not 
hang at the SysLinux screen. (V 3.11.7 also does reasonably well: a single 
press of Enter gets you out beyond SysLinux if there is a hang.)


I've tested through Sugar 0.96 (Fedora 17); all works correctly on the 
Classmate. The latest nightly builds based on Fedora 18 do *not* boot 
correctly (though they seem to install correctly to a 4GB USB stick), so 
I've no ready way to test Sugar 0.98.


I do think it wise (possibly required?) to use a USB stick  1GB.

Art Hunkins

- Original Message - 
From: Coltivare Fiori coltivarefi...@connettivo.net

To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello to everybody!



Yes! I have tried it a LOT :-)))

Sometimes I succeeded, sometimes not really.

I'm using it on one Intel Classmate 2009 PC and I am about to test it on
two of such machines. I'll let the list know!

TIA

Ernesto

On 09/10/2012 15:04, Martin Abente wrote:

Hello!

Have you tried Sugar On A Stick? You can run sugar on your own laptop.

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick

Saludos,
Tincho.




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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello to everybody!

[Coltivare Fiori]

On 09/10/2012 21:31, Art Hunkins wrote:
 FWIW, I have an Intel Classmate Go2PC, and the SoaS sticks I've made,
 via Live USB Creator (on Windows XP), have all worked fine.


I have two Intel Classmate 2009 running Sugar 0.96.1 and I cannot have
them cooperate.

If they are close to each other and both of they connect to Ad-hoc
network 1, Ad-hoc network 6 or Ad-hoc network 11, they can't see
each other.
If one of them is close to a Sugar 0.96.1 running on an older laptop, it
is seen by it, but cannot see it.

Could your Intel Classmate ever cooperate with another Sugar? This issue
is possibly the worst one affecting me.

Ernesto

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello to everybody!

[Walter Bender]

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Coltivare Fiori
coltivarefi...@connettivo.net wrote:
 On 09/10/2012 21:31, Art Hunkins wrote:
 FWIW, I have an Intel Classmate Go2PC, and the SoaS sticks I've made,
 via Live USB Creator (on Windows XP), have all worked fine.


 I have two Intel Classmate 2009 running Sugar 0.96.1 and I cannot have
 them cooperate.

 If they are close to each other and both of they connect to Ad-hoc
 network 1, Ad-hoc network 6 or Ad-hoc network 11, they can't see
 each other.
 If one of them is close to a Sugar 0.96.1 running on an older laptop, it
 is seen by it, but cannot see it.

 Could your Intel Classmate ever cooperate with another Sugar? This issue
 is possibly the worst one affecting me.

 Ernesto

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It should work.

-walter

-- 
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Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello to everybody!

[Art Hunkins]

Ernesto,

To answer your question, I don't know. Frankly, I've never tried anything 
like this - though I have two XO's and a neighbor with one.


Art Hunkins

- Original Message - 
From: Coltivare Fiori coltivarefi...@connettivo.net

To: Art Hunkins abhun...@uncg.edu
Cc: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello to everybody!



On 09/10/2012 21:31, Art Hunkins wrote:

FWIW, I have an Intel Classmate Go2PC, and the SoaS sticks I've made,
via Live USB Creator (on Windows XP), have all worked fine.



I have two Intel Classmate 2009 running Sugar 0.96.1 and I cannot have
them cooperate.

If they are close to each other and both of they connect to Ad-hoc
network 1, Ad-hoc network 6 or Ad-hoc network 11, they can't see
each other.
If one of them is close to a Sugar 0.96.1 running on an older laptop, it
is seen by it, but cannot see it.

Could your Intel Classmate ever cooperate with another Sugar? This issue
is possibly the worst one affecting me.

Ernesto



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello

[Martin Abente]

Welcome Ariel!

PS: Are you related to the OLPC project in Colombia?

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Ariel Calzada ariel.calz...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi i'm new on this list. I hope to enjoy the work.

 Have fun

 Regards,
 Ariel Calzada
 Colombia
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello

[Ariel Calzada]

Sorry for not mentioned about my work.

I'm from Colombia and i'm working for Activity Central, developing activities.

Regards,
Ariel Calazada

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Martin Abente
martin.abente.lah...@gmail.com wrote:
 Welcome Ariel!

 PS: Are you related to the OLPC project in Colombia?

 On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Ariel Calzada ariel.calz...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi i'm new on this list. I hope to enjoy the work.

 Have fun

 Regards,
 Ariel Calzada
 Colombia
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-- 
Sólo hay una guerra que puede permitirse el ser humano: la guerra
contra su extinción.
   Isaac Asimov
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello word

[Martin Abente]

Bienvenido! :)

2011/9/28 Héctor Sanchez hectorsanchez@gmail.com

 Hi,
 I am a developer, member and contributor of SugarLabs Argentina and Python
 Argentina.

 I'll be reading and contributing in my free time, in this mailing list.

 greetings!
 --
 Sanchez Héctor
 @hectorksanchez


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello word

[Gonzalo Odiard]

Hello Hector!
I hope the SugarCamp charged your batteries to participate more!

Gonzalo


2011/9/28 Héctor Sanchez hectorsanchez@gmail.com

 Hi,
 I am a developer, member and contributor of SugarLabs Argentina and Python
 Argentina.

 I'll be reading and contributing in my free time, in this mailing list.

 greetings!
 --
 Sanchez Héctor
 @hectorksanchez


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello word

[Gary Martin]

Welcome!

On 28 Sep 2011, at 17:00, Héctor Sanchez wrote:

 Hi, 
 I am a developer, member and contributor of SugarLabs Argentina and Python 
 Argentina.
 
 I'll be reading and contributing in my free time, in this mailing list.
 
 greetings!
 -- 
 Sanchez Héctor
 @hectorksanchez
 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello word

[Flavio Danesse]

欢迎

*PD:*
Dice bienvenido en Chino, que es el idioma que más personas hablan en el
planeta.




2011/9/28 Martin Abente martin.abente.lah...@gmail.com

 Bienvenido! :)

 2011/9/28 Héctor Sanchez hectorsanchez@gmail.com

 Hi,
 I am a developer, member and contributor of SugarLabs Argentina and
 Python Argentina.

 I'll be reading and contributing in my free time, in this mailing list.

 greetings!
 --
 Sanchez Héctor
 @hectorksanchez


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello word

[Chris Leonard]

2011/9/28 Héctor Sanchez hectorsanchez@gmail.com:
 Hi,
 I am a developer, member and contributor of SugarLabs Argentina and Python
 Argentina.

 I'll be reading and contributing in my free time, in this mailing list.

Héctor,

Welcome, don't forget that that doing a little localization work in
your spare time is a wonderful way to acquaint yourself with some of
the projects going on.

http://translate.sugarlabs.org/es/

cjl
Sugar Labs Translation team Coordinator
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Douglas McClendon]

David Farning wrote:
 Thanks for joining us Douglas.
 
 I would like to point out that there are two separate yet interlinked
 issues at hand:
 1. Easy and fast install.
 2. Running OS natively on removable solid state media.

understood.

 
 Douglas' Liveos solved the first issue.  It is very fast and easy to
 install an OS to a hard drive by dd'ing the contents of the overlay to
 the hard drive.

To be clear, zyx-liveinstaller dds the contents of the combination of the 
overlay and the base.  Alternately if you wanted to use the traditional 
anaconda-liveinst installer, that would copy just the base.  (unless you tried 
it with a combination of the base and a shapshotted(frozen) version of the 
overlay.  Something I told Sebastion I could try out, but am lazily biased to 
let zyx-liveinstaller work as long as people find it to be sufficiently 
qualified to the task).

 I am suggesting that ease of installation to another medium is not
 longer the primary usecase for SoaS.

Agreed.

 
 The primary use case is now running Sugar and the underlying OS as
 natively as possible on the removable solid state media.  The primary
 goals are now reliability and speed.
 
 The issue is not that overlays are bad/good or real file systems.  The
 issue is, can SoaS improve stick reliable  and speed by eliminating
 the overlays and writing the _contents_ of the overlay directly onto
 the solid state device using a file systems which is aware of the
 design characteristics of current generations of USB keys.

One would certainly expect this to be the case at some point if not already, 
and it looks like you are deep into the task of figuring out exactly when that 
point is and what it looks like.

 
 I have been conducting some very initial tests using WAD's SD card test tools.
 #1. Standard SOAS.
 #2. Install the contents of the SoaS overlay to a usb key using ext2.

I don't actually use LiveUSB overlays in all variation.  In this case is the 
base(squashed ext3/4 base) also on the ext2, or is the ext2 a seperate 
partition for just the overlay?  Not that it matters too much, but as above I 
just want to clarify things so I know we are on the same page.

 
 I am just running various methods of installing soas on USB sticks in
 qemu directly from usb sticks using
 
 qemu  -hda /dev/sd*
 
 My initial runs using the cheapest drives I could find at best buy
 indicate that #2 has at least 10X the lifetime as #1.

Again, I'm a bit confused by your wording of #2.  I.e. 'the contents'.  Does 
that mean just the small overlay, or the overlay combined with the base? 
Because it also factors into your 1. and 2. at the top.  I.e. do you consider 
the result of #2 to fall into the category of 2.Running OS natively on 
removable solid state media.?

I see (at least) 3 scenarios (and I don't follow OLPC that closely even though 
I own one and still intend to put it to good use ... 'one day')

a) LiveOS(CD/USB/nand?) with nonpersistent ram overlay
b) LiveOS with persistent overlay living on vfat with the squashed base
c) LiveOS with persistent overlay living on ext alongside squashed base on vfat 
partition
d) LiveOS with persistent overlay living on ext(2/3/4) with the squashed base
e) installed (non-liveos) on ext2/3/4(/ubifs?/btrfs?) on a usb/flash/nand 
partition

I take your 2.) to be e).  Your #1 to be b) (or do you guys do d) already?). 
And your #2 to be either c) d) or e), i.e. not sure.

I'll also reply to your other email.

In any event, if distributing soas _as_ e) results in the lack of need for 
zyx-liveinstaller to be part of it, maybe I'll have to reprioritize the already 
roadmapped feature for zyx-liveinstaller to be able to run from an already 
installed system to fork/clone a copy of the running 'StickOS' (as opposed to 
LiveOS) to another diskpartition/stick.  Nothing a majority of users would use, 
but perhaps amusing enough to justify inclusion.

-dmc


 
 david
 
 
 On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Martin Denglermar...@martindengler.com 
 wrote:
 On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 06:48:53AM -0600, Douglas McClendon wrote:
 Douglas McClendon wrote:
 Martin Langhoff wrote:
 On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Douglas
 McClendondmc.su...@filteredperception.org wrote:
 My name is Douglas McClendon, and I created the ZyX-LiveInstaller which 
 appears
  on track to becoming part of SoaS.  I also can accept praise and blame 
 for
 the LiveUSB persistence feature I implemented for fedora a couple years 
 back,
 Good to have you on board! One thing we've found is that the overlay
 fs trick is neat but somewhat fragile. In brief - unclean shutdowns
 and oops, I pulled out the stick cases very often leave the USB
 stick unbootable.

 Of course, first step is fsck.vfat, but after that, we're completely
 lost. Hints would be more than welcome. Ideally, something smarter can
 be done during the boot itself or otherwise with a repair script.
 Unfortunately I don't have any easy answers.  As someone who works on NDS
 Ok, more hints as 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Douglas McClendon]

David Farning wrote:
 I am currently at the hypothesis stage.
 
 My hypothesis is that something is causing an excessive number of
 reads/writes to a small portion of a USB memory stick.  My first guess
 is that the problem is the interaction of _cheap_ usb chips/firmware
 and the filesystem overlay.

Sounds extremely plausible to me.

 
 The test are described at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/NAND_Testing .
 Each test is an instance of Sugar running off an USB stick in qemu.

I skimmed and grepped for 'overlay'.  Not seeing it I presume this is all 
installed systems, and not LiveOS+overlay.  Though the proximity of this to 
your above hypothesis including overlays leaves me uncertain.

Basically if these tests are against installed systems, I really don't have 
anything useful to add.  But if this involves LiveOS style boot with overlay, 
then I still don't have much to add other than I assume/hope your tests don't 
trigger overlay exhaustion and confuse that with media error.

-dmc



 
 I am not sure how accurate these test are because of qemu and system
 level caching.  At this point I am just running a hacked version of
 the above test until the SoaS instance to fails.  Standard SoaS fails
 within a few hours. Installing the SoaS overlay as an ext2 filesystem
 has lasted about 10X time longer before I stopped the tests.
 
 It is going to take me a while to understand what these tests mean (if
 they mean anything) and if other qemu or system factors are screwing
 up the results
 
 david
 
 On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Martin Denglermar...@martindengler.com 
 wrote:
 On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 03:21:50PM -0500, David Farning wrote:
 Thanks for joining us Douglas.

 I would like to point out that there are two separate yet interlinked
 issues at hand:
 1. Easy and fast install.
 2. Running OS natively on removable solid state media.
 What do you mean by running OS natively?

 Douglas' Liveos solved the first issue.  It is very fast and easy to
 install an OS to a hard drive by dd'ing the contents of the overlay to
 the hard drive.

 I am suggesting that ease of installation to another medium is not
 longer the primary usecase for SoaS.
 Caroline continues to ask for easy ways to duplicate a stick.

 The primary use case is now running Sugar and the underlying OS as
 natively as possible on the removable solid state media.  The primary
 goals are now reliability and speed.
 What does as natively as possible mean?

 The issue is not that overlays are bad/good or real file systems.  The
 issue is, can SoaS improve stick reliable  and speed by eliminating
 the overlays and writing the _contents_ of the overlay directly onto
 the solid state device
 Is what you're saying that it's easier to corrupt a bit on the overlay
 than it is to corrupt a bit on a non-overlay fs?

 using a file systems which is aware of the design characteristics of
 current generations of USB keys.
 Please clarify what you mean.

 I have been conducting some very initial tests using WAD's SD card
 test tools.
 Where can these be found?

 #1. Standard SOAS.
 #2. Install the contents of the SoaS overlay to a usb key using
 #   ext2.
 Meaning what exactly?

 I am just running various methods of installing soas on USB sticks in
 qemu directly from usb sticks using

 qemu  -hda /dev/sd*

 My initial runs using the cheapest drives I could find at best buy
 indicate that #2 has at least 10X the lifetime as #1.
 What are the units in which you're measuring lifetime?

 david
 Martin


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Douglas McClendon]

Martin Dengler wrote:
 On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 06:48:53AM -0600, Douglas McClendon wrote:
 Douglas McClendon wrote:
 Martin Langhoff wrote:
 On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Douglas
 McClendondmc.su...@filteredperception.org wrote:
 My name is Douglas McClendon, and I created the ZyX-LiveInstaller which 
 appears
  on track to becoming part of SoaS.  I also can accept praise and blame 
 for
 the LiveUSB persistence feature I implemented for fedora a couple years 
 back,
 Good to have you on board! One thing we've found is that the overlay
 fs trick is neat but somewhat fragile. In brief - unclean shutdowns
 and oops, I pulled out the stick cases very often leave the USB
 stick unbootable.

 Of course, first step is fsck.vfat, but after that, we're completely
 lost. Hints would be more than welcome. Ideally, something smarter can
 be done during the boot itself or otherwise with a repair script.
 Unfortunately I don't have any easy answers.  As someone who works on NDS 
 Ok, more hints as various vague theories start percolating through
 my memory.
 
 If people care to take advantage of your expertise, I hope they can
 provide the filesystems that have failed as examples.  overlay is
 fragile is about the level of FUD, AFAICS.  Nothing better has been
 proposed.  No broken filesystems have been made available.  I don't
 doubt the some sticks 'broke' when yanked out before fs's were
 sync'ed reports in and of themselves, but when this meme continues it
 makes potential contributors / onlookers think there is some obvious /
 neglected problem.

As the implementer of the current manifestation of the LiveUSB persistence 
feature I'll be the first to confirm it is reasonable to consider overlay 
exhaustion to be a more annoying feature than it needs to be.  I.e. extremely 
hard to detect and recover from.  If someone wants to pay me a salary to 
improve the situation, I could, but otherwise I have more fun nds/guitar 
related projects to work on.  And there may also be better long term ways 
around it than what I would do.

Beyond that, I can also as mentioned confirm seeing problems with corrupted fat 
filesystems.  Maybe all/most from NDS stuff and not LiveOS stuff.  Can someone 
maybe tell me how I'm not understanding fsck.vfat?  I get into this situation 
where it complains about a relatively small (3-6) set of things, and I try to 
submit to its requests.  But its requests aren't at all as obvious as hitting 
'y' to anyting fsck.ext3 asks of you.  And then, when I run fsck.vfat 
immediately again, it asks the same questions as if it did nothing??  What 
am I missing?

But off tangent back to what you said- unionfs is certainly an alternative to 
overlays, and it sounds like it may be a part of f13, or 14 or thereabouts. 
And unionfs as opposed to overlay for LiveOS certainly from what I know (but 
not from actual use/experience) does handle the overlay exhaustion scenario 
much more easily than the current devicemapper snapshot alternative.  I of 
course don't like unionfs for reasons of rebootless installation preclusion...


-dmc
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Martin Langhoff]

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Douglas McClendon
dmc.su...@filteredperception.org wrote:
 Basically if these tests are against installed systems, I really don't have
 anything useful to add.  But if this involves LiveOS style boot with overlay,
 then I still don't have much to add other than I assume/hope your tests don't
 trigger overlay exhaustion and confuse that with media error.

Those tests are on NAND flash, without an FTL, direct MTD and JFFS2 or UBIFS.

I do have a couple of questions for you re diagnosing the issues we've seen.

 - During boot, how early is the overlay being mounted (initramfs?)
and could something be done to fail more gracefully if the overlay is
found to be corrupt? Hints to what code is controlling this would be
great.

 - When we do have LiveUSB that refuses to boot, what fs is in the
overlay? The 'livecd' tools that create the overlay just dd the file.
It all seems to be internal to the Linux kernel -- if it is a FS in
disguise, we could fsck it...

With this kind of info, we can hopefully do more valuable testing  diagnosis...

cheers,



m
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 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Douglas McClendon]

Martin Dengler wrote:

 I am suggesting that ease of installation to another medium is not
 longer the primary usecase for SoaS.
 
 Caroline continues to ask for easy ways to duplicate a stick.

zyx-liveinstaller should be one way to duplicate sticks in the sense of going 
from one LiveOS to many StickOS's.  liveusb-creator or livecd-iso-to-disk 
should be existing methods of creating duplicate LiveUSBs.

 
 The primary use case is now running Sugar and the underlying OS as
 natively as possible on the removable solid state media.  The primary
 goals are now reliability and speed.
 
 What does as natively as possible mean?

I'm guessing it means running a ext3/4/ubi/btrfs filesystem as the rootfs on a 
partition of the stick, instead of the LiveUSB form of an ext4 as rootfs 
mounted from an image file in a squashed-fs image file, residing on a vfat or 
other filesystem on a partition of the stick, possibly with a readwrite 
devicemapper overlay which could reside on the same partition on the stick, or 
a different partition.

-dmc


 
 The issue is not that overlays are bad/good or real file systems.  The
 issue is, can SoaS improve stick reliable  and speed by eliminating
 the overlays and writing the _contents_ of the overlay directly onto
 the solid state device
 
 Is what you're saying that it's easier to corrupt a bit on the overlay
 than it is to corrupt a bit on a non-overlay fs?
 
 using a file systems which is aware of the design characteristics of
 current generations of USB keys.
 
 Please clarify what you mean.
 
 I have been conducting some very initial tests using WAD's SD card
 test tools.
 
 Where can these be found?
 
 #1. Standard SOAS.
 #2. Install the contents of the SoaS overlay to a usb key using
 #   ext2.
 
 Meaning what exactly?
 
 I am just running various methods of installing soas on USB sticks in
 qemu directly from usb sticks using

 qemu  -hda /dev/sd*

 My initial runs using the cheapest drives I could find at best buy
 indicate that #2 has at least 10X the lifetime as #1.
 
 What are the units in which you're measuring lifetime?
 
 david
 
 Martin

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[David Farning]

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I started running the tests last week to see if we could generate some
data from which we could make some predictions on the reliability of
various lots (model, size, firmwre) of USB memory sticks.  The
original idea was that name brand sticks might last longer then 'the
cheapest we could find' stick I have been working with.

I was thinking that different lot/filesytem combinations would
gracefully degrade at consistent predictable rates.  Instead, I got a
rather unexpected result.  Rapid failure of a lot/filesystem
combination.

Now I am just scrambling for an explanation. Before anyone goes
out and buys a couple hundred sticks for a deployment, pilot, or pr
event.

With the feedback you, Tom, and Martin have provided, I'll try to
refine the tests to get better data.

david



On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 5:03 AM, Douglas McClendon
dmc.su...@filteredperception.org wrote:
 David Farning wrote:

 Thanks for joining us Douglas.

 I would like to point out that there are two separate yet interlinked
 issues at hand:
 1. Easy and fast install.
 2. Running OS natively on removable solid state media.

 understood.


 Douglas' Liveos solved the first issue.  It is very fast and easy to
 install an OS to a hard drive by dd'ing the contents of the overlay to
 the hard drive.

 To be clear, zyx-liveinstaller dds the contents of the combination of the
 overlay and the base.  Alternately if you wanted to use the traditional
 anaconda-liveinst installer, that would copy just the base.  (unless you
 tried it with a combination of the base and a shapshotted(frozen) version of
 the overlay.  Something I told Sebastion I could try out, but am lazily
 biased to let zyx-liveinstaller work as long as people find it to be
 sufficiently qualified to the task).

 I am suggesting that ease of installation to another medium is not
 longer the primary usecase for SoaS.

 Agreed.


 The primary use case is now running Sugar and the underlying OS as
 natively as possible on the removable solid state media.  The primary
 goals are now reliability and speed.

 The issue is not that overlays are bad/good or real file systems.  The
 issue is, can SoaS improve stick reliable  and speed by eliminating
 the overlays and writing the _contents_ of the overlay directly onto
 the solid state device using a file systems which is aware of the
 design characteristics of current generations of USB keys.

 One would certainly expect this to be the case at some point if not already,
 and it looks like you are deep into the task of figuring out exactly when
 that point is and what it looks like.


 I have been conducting some very initial tests using WAD's SD card test
 tools.
 #1. Standard SOAS.
 #2. Install the contents of the SoaS overlay to a usb key using ext2.

 I don't actually use LiveUSB overlays in all variation.  In this case is the
 base(squashed ext3/4 base) also on the ext2, or is the ext2 a seperate
 partition for just the overlay?  Not that it matters too much, but as above
 I just want to clarify things so I know we are on the same page.


 I am just running various methods of installing soas on USB sticks in
 qemu directly from usb sticks using

 qemu  -hda /dev/sd*

 My initial runs using the cheapest drives I could find at best buy
 indicate that #2 has at least 10X the lifetime as #1.

 Again, I'm a bit confused by your wording of #2.  I.e. 'the contents'.  Does
 that mean just the small overlay, or the overlay combined with the base?
 Because it also factors into your 1. and 2. at the top.  I.e. do you
 consider the result of #2 to fall into the category of 2.Running OS
 natively on removable solid state media.?

 I see (at least) 3 scenarios (and I don't follow OLPC that closely even
 though I own one and still intend to put it to good use ... 'one day')

 a) LiveOS(CD/USB/nand?) with nonpersistent ram overlay
 b) LiveOS with persistent overlay living on vfat with the squashed base
 c) LiveOS with persistent overlay living on ext alongside squashed base on
 vfat partition
 d) LiveOS with persistent overlay living on ext(2/3/4) with the squashed
 base
 e) installed (non-liveos) on ext2/3/4(/ubifs?/btrfs?) on a usb/flash/nand
 partition

 I take your 2.) to be e).  Your #1 to be b) (or do you guys do d) already?).
 And your #2 to be either c) d) or e), i.e. not sure.

 I'll also reply to your other email.

 In any event, if distributing soas _as_ e) results in the lack of need for
 zyx-liveinstaller to be part of it, maybe I'll have to reprioritize the
 already roadmapped feature for zyx-liveinstaller to be able to run from an
 already installed system to fork/clone a copy of the running 'StickOS' (as
 opposed to LiveOS) to another diskpartition/stick.  Nothing a majority of
 users would use, but perhaps amusing enough to justify inclusion.

 -dmc



 david


 On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Martin Denglermar...@martindengler.com
 wrote:

 On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 06:48:53AM -0600, 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Martin Dengler]

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 04:24:55AM -0600, Douglas McClendon wrote:
 And there may also be better long term ways around it than what I
 would do.

The F11-on-XO guys over at fedora-olpc-l...@redhat.com are having a
serious go at changing the partition layout for XO-1.5 deployment
images.  We are creating F11/F12 filesytems/layouts for removable
(USB/SD/etc.) and fixed media (XO-1 internal NAND, XO-1.5 internal SD
card).  We'd like to support copying the removeable
filesystems/layouts to a) another removable device (cloning a
stick); and b) another less-than-removable device (intenal NAND/SD
card, hard drive).

It'd be really great to get your expertise now to make the layout as
robust as possible, and soon when the F11-on-XO guys write up the
details of their new layout.

 -dmc

Martin



pgpMLegTtms6V.pgp
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Martin Langhoff]

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:39 PM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
 I was thinking that different lot/filesytem combinations would
 gracefully degrade at consistent predictable rates.  Instead, I got a
 rather unexpected result.  Rapid failure of a lot/filesystem
 combination.

Did you repartition them? Mitch Bradley explained it best:
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2009-April/013789.html

Background reading at
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/How_to_Damage_a_FLASH_Storage_Device

Even following his advise, journalled FSs are going to hit the device
pretty hard. And if you skip journalled FSs, you're in the land of
dinosaurs like ext2.

life sucks, we're screwed, etc

From a distance, btrfs seems to have the nice aspects of journalled
FSs without the hotspots that cut through flash devices. It may be a
good candidate, coupled with following Mitch's advise.

cheers,




m
-- 
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 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Douglas McClendon]

Douglas McClendon wrote:
 David Farning wrote:

 The primary use case is now running Sugar and the underlying OS as
 natively as possible on the removable solid state media.  The primary
 goals are now reliability and speed.

 The issue is not that overlays are bad/good or real file systems.  The
 issue is, can SoaS improve stick reliable  and speed by eliminating
 the overlays and writing the _contents_ of the overlay directly onto
 the solid state device using a file systems which is aware of the
 design characteristics of current generations of USB keys.
 
 One would certainly expect this to be the case at some point if not 
 already, and it looks like you are deep into the task of figuring out 
 exactly when that point is and what it looks like.
 

Yeah, this is all pretty nastily complex.  I just reread the above two 
paragraphs, and think that in my reply I misunderstood the 2nd paragraph.  But 
there is possible contradiction with the 1st paragraph.

I now see what you are saying in the 2nd paragraph, as the overlay living in a 
filesystem that does wearleveling/circular-writing(ish kind of stuff).  Which 
is different than what I previously thought you meant, i.e. having a 
traditional rootfs (no overlay), on a filesystem that does 
wearleveling/circular writing.  I.e. my vague semi-osmotic understanding is 
that btrfs's 'copy on write' feature has something to do with more or less 
always writing new data in a 'circular' fashion on disk, which is a kind of 
wear leveling, and can possibly facilitate interesting snapshot feature stuff. 
  I could however be way off.

And I guess I can conceive of a justification for putting the just the overlay 
on such a filesystem.  I.e. while the filesystem may not be ready for primetime 
as a rootfs, its ability to do the right thing(tm) vis-a-vis wearleveling on 
just the single readwrite overlay file, might be worth doing.


-dmc
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Thomas C Gilliard]

David;

It seems to me, from these discussions, that you may not be actually 
testing the reliability of the USB's.

This is if you are testing a live fs.
The unknown in the picture is the size and presence of the overlay and 
when it will be exhaused.
This may, as Doug suggests, be what causes early failures in your 
testing of strawberry written to USB with

live-usb creator or /livecd-iso-to-disk.sh /

Contrast this with the latest .img files I have been constructing.
These are case e) :

e) installed (non-liveos) on ext2/3/4(/ubifs?/btrfs?) on a usb/flash/nand
partition

(I am attaching a screen shot of a type e) USB. SD12kdeSUGAR4G
==
I used the F12-alpha-i686-KDE-live CD to install to a 4GB SD

//dev/sd(x)1 /boot ext2 200 MiB with boot flag
/dev/sd(x)2/ ext4 3.5 GiB

then I did the following commands in terminal:

yum install @sugar-desktop
yum upgrade @sugar-desktop
yum upgrade metacity (want X.9)

I then logged in to sugar at the KDE switcher screen
entered name and color
opened sugar terminal

*# the following makes a Sugar only USB:*

yum remove @kde-desktop
yum install @sugar-desktop (to reinstall needed files)
/yum install gedit
(after gedit is installed:)
gedit /etc/gdm/gdm.schemas

  * change: (to true and add sugar)

--snip--
keydaemon/AutomaticLoginEnable/key
signatureb/signature
defaulttrue/default
/schema
schema
keydaemon/AutomaticLogin/key
signatures/signature
defaultsugar/default
/schema --snip--

exit root
rm -rf ~/.sugar
su -
pswd:xxx
shutdown -h now


This is quite different than a strawberry.iso installed with

/livecd-iso-to-disk.sh

/Which I think is case b)
/
NOTE
( These need a version number as the contents keep changing ie;
there is a new different one for the soas-2-beta.iso)

Versioning of these is ESSENTIAL as use of an old one can cause problems.

ALSO:
/Another completely different case to be looked at is a Sugar VMPlayer 
Appliance where the files are copied to a Fat16 or Fat32

formatted USB/SD.
VMWorkstation files are constructed of (expandable up to 2GB slices) for 
Compatibility.

These should behave quite differently when tested.

Cordially

Tom Gilliard
satellit



/

/

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Douglas McClendon]

Martin Langhoff wrote:
 On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Douglas McClendon
 dmc.su...@filteredperception.org wrote:
 Basically if these tests are against installed systems, I really don't have
 anything useful to add.  But if this involves LiveOS style boot with overlay,
 then I still don't have much to add other than I assume/hope your tests don't
 trigger overlay exhaustion and confuse that with media error.
 
 Those tests are on NAND flash, without an FTL, direct MTD and JFFS2 or UBIFS.
 
 I do have a couple of questions for you re diagnosing the issues we've seen.
 
  - During boot, how early is the overlay being mounted (initramfs?)

Yes.  Also, there is probably room for clearer terminology.  I.e. the overlay 
in question here is a a device (or device image on loopback accessed file), 
which gets combined with a base device, into a virtual device.  These loops are 
indeed set up, and combined with devicemapper, in the initramfs at precisely 
the time when a normal initramfs would be mounting the real rootfs.  I.e. once 
it is put together, it is then mounted as the real rootfs.

 and could something be done to fail more gracefully if the overlay is
 found to be corrupt? Hints to what code is controlling this would be
 great.

I think the relevent code may have somewhat recently moved from the 
livecd-tools package, to the mkinitramfs/dracut package.  I.e. in f10 which I'm 
currently looking at, you want to look at /usr/libexec/mkliveinitrd in the 
mkinitrd package.  But for f12 thats probably in dracut somewhere.  In either 
you probably want to search for 'dmsetup' calls which create the virtual root 
device from the base and overlay devices(files).

Yes, there may be room to detect and handle problems better there.


 
  - When we do have LiveUSB that refuses to boot, what fs is in the
 overlay? The 'livecd' tools that create the overlay just dd the file.
 It all seems to be internal to the Linux kernel -- if it is a FS in
 disguise, we could fsck it...

Again, it is a devicemapper snapshot device, which last I looked was rather 
tragically inadequately documented in the devicemapper documentation, (actually 
maybe that was the devicemapper mirror device I use for rebootless 
installation.  hopefully all are better documented by now).

And a normal ext4fs lives in the virtual device.  I.e. the overlay is just 
that, an overlay, like a partially transparent tablecloth on a table.  I.e. the 
table is really holding the food up, and the tablecloth by itself is quite 
useless.

Yes you can fsck the resultant virtual device, though perhaps this relates to 
what I read in I think the most recent lwn about how raid/ssd/flash corruption, 
because it works in 'megablocks' can trash your fs rather much more badly than 
usual filesystem corruption.

Also, there may be room to fsck that housing filesystem, i.e. the vfat or 
whatever fs is actually on the stick that contains the various components of 
the virtual rootfs.  That gets to my other post asking about how fsck.vfat 
seems to be ignoring me.

Finally, as you might gather from above, despite GDK's generous and amusing 
'GodFather' comment, I haven't been following closely the most recent 
developments with livecd tools, i.e. in case maybe they've already implemented 
some of these things.  But those places I mentioned are where you would find 
out.


 
 With this kind of info, we can hopefully do more valuable testing  
 diagnosis...

I hope I lessen the overall confusion/complexity rather than add to it :)

-dmc


 
 cheers,
 
 
 
 m

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Douglas McClendon]

Martin Dengler wrote:
 On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 04:24:55AM -0600, Douglas McClendon wrote:
 And there may also be better long term ways around it than what I
 would do.
 
 The F11-on-XO guys over at fedora-olpc-l...@redhat.com are having a
 serious go at changing the partition layout for XO-1.5 deployment
 images.  We are creating F11/F12 filesytems/layouts for removable
 (USB/SD/etc.) and fixed media (XO-1 internal NAND, XO-1.5 internal SD
 card).  We'd like to support copying the removeable
 filesystems/layouts to a) another removable device (cloning a
 stick); and b) another less-than-removable device (intenal NAND/SD
 card, hard drive).
 
 It'd be really great to get your expertise now to make the layout as
 robust as possible, and soon when the F11-on-XO guys write up the
 details of their new layout.

I don't think I really have anything to add.  I don't have the personal 
experience running natively installed OSs on flash, either with rootfs as ext2, 
ext4, or btrfs.  My personal use case is being content with existing LiveUSBs, 
and assuming that interesting natural progressions will happen with unionfs and 
btrfs as they mature.  I'm confident that whatever they have currently tested 
and found best is probably better than any less informed suggestion I could 
make.

-dmc


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Martin Langhoff]

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Douglas
McClendondmc.su...@filteredperception.org wrote:
 My name is Douglas McClendon, and I created the ZyX-LiveInstaller which 
 appears
  on track to becoming part of SoaS.  I also can accept praise and blame for
 the LiveUSB persistence feature I implemented for fedora a couple years back,

Good to have you on board! One thing we've found is that the overlay
fs trick is neat but somewhat fragile. In brief - unclean shutdowns
and oops, I pulled out the stick cases very often leave the USB
stick unbootable.

Of course, first step is fsck.vfat, but after that, we're completely
lost. Hints would be more than welcome. Ideally, something smarter can
be done during the boot itself or otherwise with a repair script.

cheers,



m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Douglas McClendon]

Martin Langhoff wrote:
 On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Douglas
 McClendondmc.su...@filteredperception.org wrote:
 My name is Douglas McClendon, and I created the ZyX-LiveInstaller which 
 appears
  on track to becoming part of SoaS.  I also can accept praise and blame for
 the LiveUSB persistence feature I implemented for fedora a couple years back,
 
 Good to have you on board! One thing we've found is that the overlay
 fs trick is neat but somewhat fragile. In brief - unclean shutdowns
 and oops, I pulled out the stick cases very often leave the USB
 stick unbootable.
 
 Of course, first step is fsck.vfat, but after that, we're completely
 lost. Hints would be more than welcome. Ideally, something smarter can
 be done during the boot itself or otherwise with a repair script.

Unfortunately I don't have any easy answers.  As someone who works on NDS 
homebrew that often/always runs from fat, I can only add to anecdotal evidence 
that fat filesystems on flash sticks seem to often get badly corrupted.  I'd be 
curious whether running from ext2/3/4fs (or something else?) has similar rates 
of failure.  Of course when you do that compatability with other 
systems/devices mostly goes out the window, but I'm pretty sure fedora does 
support that.

 From what I've read recently on the state of SSDs, it sounds like you are in 
some cases at the mercy of the quality of the flash and embedded controller's 
implementation.

Now, you didn't describe the situation with the overlay getting exhausted, 
which is probably as common a nuisance.  Theoretically I can outline a brute 
force solution to folding the overlay back into base given sufficient 
tempspace, but I suppose I'm really hoping that btrfs has some magic awesome 
features in the pipeline that make that obsolete before I get around to writing 
it.

Sorry, no answer here...  Of course you can go with the --home to a seperate 
partition, and no overlay.  I think that might lower the risk of unbootable, 
but leave the risk of corrupted /home, which probably means not much benefit.

I suppose as sticks get bigger, you can dedicate an entire partition to 
disaster recovery, much as normal notebook systems have.

Dunno

-dmc



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Douglas McClendon]

Douglas McClendon wrote:
 Martin Langhoff wrote:
 On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Douglas
 McClendondmc.su...@filteredperception.org wrote:
 My name is Douglas McClendon, and I created the ZyX-LiveInstaller which 
 appears
  on track to becoming part of SoaS.  I also can accept praise and blame for
 the LiveUSB persistence feature I implemented for fedora a couple years 
 back,
 Good to have you on board! One thing we've found is that the overlay
 fs trick is neat but somewhat fragile. In brief - unclean shutdowns
 and oops, I pulled out the stick cases very often leave the USB
 stick unbootable.

 Of course, first step is fsck.vfat, but after that, we're completely
 lost. Hints would be more than welcome. Ideally, something smarter can
 be done during the boot itself or otherwise with a repair script.
 
 Unfortunately I don't have any easy answers.  As someone who works on NDS 

Ok, more hints as various vague theories start percolating through my memory.
First disclaimer- I'm no fsck.vfat expert.  Maybe there are options and ways to
use it to more success than I've had, perhaps even targeted to the failure case
at hand.  But from a worst case perspective of assuming you always run grave
risk of completely corrupted fat due to simple write interruption, you could go
with an extra buffer layer in the devicemapper snapshot overlay.  I.e. a second
small overlay on a separate, intentionally 'volatile' partition.  Then
periodically (5min and/or user-tunable) write that back to main overlay on the
less volatile main partition.  And some amount of replication of those
files/slices.

Of course unionfs implemented LiveOSs are somewhat different, though actually I
think the above maps pretty well to both the same problem and solution for that
type of LiveOS.

Or maybe subtle features of btrfs that I don't completely grok yet make
this problem go away...

Dunno...

-dmc

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Martin Dengler]

On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 06:48:53AM -0600, Douglas McClendon wrote:
 Douglas McClendon wrote:
  Martin Langhoff wrote:
  On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Douglas
  McClendondmc.su...@filteredperception.org wrote:
  My name is Douglas McClendon, and I created the ZyX-LiveInstaller which 
  appears
   on track to becoming part of SoaS.  I also can accept praise and blame 
  for
  the LiveUSB persistence feature I implemented for fedora a couple years 
  back,
  Good to have you on board! One thing we've found is that the overlay
  fs trick is neat but somewhat fragile. In brief - unclean shutdowns
  and oops, I pulled out the stick cases very often leave the USB
  stick unbootable.
 
  Of course, first step is fsck.vfat, but after that, we're completely
  lost. Hints would be more than welcome. Ideally, something smarter can
  be done during the boot itself or otherwise with a repair script.
  
  Unfortunately I don't have any easy answers.  As someone who works on NDS 
 
 Ok, more hints as various vague theories start percolating through
 my memory.

If people care to take advantage of your expertise, I hope they can
provide the filesystems that have failed as examples.  overlay is
fragile is about the level of FUD, AFAICS.  Nothing better has been
proposed.  No broken filesystems have been made available.  I don't
doubt the some sticks 'broke' when yanked out before fs's were
sync'ed reports in and of themselves, but when this meme continues it
makes potential contributors / onlookers think there is some obvious /
neglected problem.

 -dmc

Martin


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[David Farning]

Thanks for joining us Douglas.

I would like to point out that there are two separate yet interlinked
issues at hand:
1. Easy and fast install.
2. Running OS natively on removable solid state media.

Douglas' Liveos solved the first issue.  It is very fast and easy to
install an OS to a hard drive by dd'ing the contents of the overlay to
the hard drive.

I am suggesting that ease of installation to another medium is not
longer the primary usecase for SoaS.

The primary use case is now running Sugar and the underlying OS as
natively as possible on the removable solid state media.  The primary
goals are now reliability and speed.

The issue is not that overlays are bad/good or real file systems.  The
issue is, can SoaS improve stick reliable  and speed by eliminating
the overlays and writing the _contents_ of the overlay directly onto
the solid state device using a file systems which is aware of the
design characteristics of current generations of USB keys.

I have been conducting some very initial tests using WAD's SD card test tools.
#1. Standard SOAS.
#2. Install the contents of the SoaS overlay to a usb key using ext2.

I am just running various methods of installing soas on USB sticks in
qemu directly from usb sticks using

qemu  -hda /dev/sd*

My initial runs using the cheapest drives I could find at best buy
indicate that #2 has at least 10X the lifetime as #1.

david


On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Martin Denglermar...@martindengler.com wrote:
 On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 06:48:53AM -0600, Douglas McClendon wrote:
 Douglas McClendon wrote:
  Martin Langhoff wrote:
  On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Douglas
  McClendondmc.su...@filteredperception.org wrote:
  My name is Douglas McClendon, and I created the ZyX-LiveInstaller which 
  appears
   on track to becoming part of SoaS.  I also can accept praise and blame 
  for
  the LiveUSB persistence feature I implemented for fedora a couple years 
  back,
  Good to have you on board! One thing we've found is that the overlay
  fs trick is neat but somewhat fragile. In brief - unclean shutdowns
  and oops, I pulled out the stick cases very often leave the USB
  stick unbootable.
 
  Of course, first step is fsck.vfat, but after that, we're completely
  lost. Hints would be more than welcome. Ideally, something smarter can
  be done during the boot itself or otherwise with a repair script.
 
  Unfortunately I don't have any easy answers.  As someone who works on NDS

 Ok, more hints as various vague theories start percolating through
 my memory.

 If people care to take advantage of your expertise, I hope they can
 provide the filesystems that have failed as examples.  overlay is
 fragile is about the level of FUD, AFAICS.  Nothing better has been
 proposed.  No broken filesystems have been made available.  I don't
 doubt the some sticks 'broke' when yanked out before fs's were
 sync'ed reports in and of themselves, but when this meme continues it
 makes potential contributors / onlookers think there is some obvious /
 neglected problem.

 -dmc

 Martin

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Greg DeKoenigsberg]

Just a brief note: Douglas knows more about Fedora Live stuff than just 
about anybody in the world -- his work was one of the original drivers of 
the Fedora Live project.  He's kinda the Godfather of the Fedora Live CD.


So thanks, Douglas.  Good to see you helping these folks out.

--g

On Wed, 9 Sep 2009, David Farning wrote:


Thanks for joining us Douglas.

I would like to point out that there are two separate yet interlinked
issues at hand:
1. Easy and fast install.
2. Running OS natively on removable solid state media.

Douglas' Liveos solved the first issue.  It is very fast and easy to
install an OS to a hard drive by dd'ing the contents of the overlay to
the hard drive.

I am suggesting that ease of installation to another medium is not
longer the primary usecase for SoaS.

The primary use case is now running Sugar and the underlying OS as
natively as possible on the removable solid state media.  The primary
goals are now reliability and speed.

The issue is not that overlays are bad/good or real file systems.  The
issue is, can SoaS improve stick reliable  and speed by eliminating
the overlays and writing the _contents_ of the overlay directly onto
the solid state device using a file systems which is aware of the
design characteristics of current generations of USB keys.

I have been conducting some very initial tests using WAD's SD card test tools.
#1. Standard SOAS.
#2. Install the contents of the SoaS overlay to a usb key using ext2.

I am just running various methods of installing soas on USB sticks in
qemu directly from usb sticks using

qemu  -hda /dev/sd*

My initial runs using the cheapest drives I could find at best buy
indicate that #2 has at least 10X the lifetime as #1.

david


On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Martin Denglermar...@martindengler.com wrote:

On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 06:48:53AM -0600, Douglas McClendon wrote:

Douglas McClendon wrote:
 Martin Langhoff wrote:
 On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Douglas
 McClendondmc.su...@filteredperception.org wrote:
 My name is Douglas McClendon, and I created the ZyX-LiveInstaller which 
appears
  on track to becoming part of SoaS.  I also can accept praise and blame for
 the LiveUSB persistence feature I implemented for fedora a couple years 
back,
 Good to have you on board! One thing we've found is that the overlay
 fs trick is neat but somewhat fragile. In brief - unclean shutdowns
 and oops, I pulled out the stick cases very often leave the USB
 stick unbootable.

 Of course, first step is fsck.vfat, but after that, we're completely
 lost. Hints would be more than welcome. Ideally, something smarter can
 be done during the boot itself or otherwise with a repair script.

 Unfortunately I don't have any easy answers.  As someone who works on NDS

Ok, more hints as various vague theories start percolating through
my memory.


If people care to take advantage of your expertise, I hope they can
provide the filesystems that have failed as examples.  overlay is
fragile is about the level of FUD, AFAICS.  Nothing better has been
proposed.  No broken filesystems have been made available.  I don't
doubt the some sticks 'broke' when yanked out before fs's were
sync'ed reports in and of themselves, but when this meme continues it
makes potential contributors / onlookers think there is some obvious /
neglected problem.


-dmc


Martin

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[Martin Dengler]

On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 03:21:50PM -0500, David Farning wrote:
 Thanks for joining us Douglas.
 
 I would like to point out that there are two separate yet interlinked
 issues at hand:
 1. Easy and fast install.
 2. Running OS natively on removable solid state media.

What do you mean by running OS natively?

 
 Douglas' Liveos solved the first issue.  It is very fast and easy to
 install an OS to a hard drive by dd'ing the contents of the overlay to
 the hard drive.
 
 I am suggesting that ease of installation to another medium is not
 longer the primary usecase for SoaS.

Caroline continues to ask for easy ways to duplicate a stick.

 The primary use case is now running Sugar and the underlying OS as
 natively as possible on the removable solid state media.  The primary
 goals are now reliability and speed.

What does as natively as possible mean?

 The issue is not that overlays are bad/good or real file systems.  The
 issue is, can SoaS improve stick reliable  and speed by eliminating
 the overlays and writing the _contents_ of the overlay directly onto
 the solid state device

Is what you're saying that it's easier to corrupt a bit on the overlay
than it is to corrupt a bit on a non-overlay fs?

 using a file systems which is aware of the design characteristics of
 current generations of USB keys.

Please clarify what you mean.

 I have been conducting some very initial tests using WAD's SD card
 test tools.

Where can these be found?

 #1. Standard SOAS.
 #2. Install the contents of the SoaS overlay to a usb key using
 #   ext2.

Meaning what exactly?

 I am just running various methods of installing soas on USB sticks in
 qemu directly from usb sticks using
 
 qemu  -hda /dev/sd*
 
 My initial runs using the cheapest drives I could find at best buy
 indicate that #2 has at least 10X the lifetime as #1.

What are the units in which you're measuring lifetime?

 david

Martin


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello, was Re: Hack to get a USB/SD to autologin to only Sugar-desktop on a stick. from a F12-alpha live CD

[David Farning]

I am currently at the hypothesis stage.

My hypothesis is that something is causing an excessive number of
reads/writes to a small portion of a USB memory stick.  My first guess
is that the problem is the interaction of _cheap_ usb chips/firmware
and the filesystem overlay.

The test are described at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/NAND_Testing .
Each test is an instance of Sugar running off an USB stick in qemu.

I am not sure how accurate these test are because of qemu and system
level caching.  At this point I am just running a hacked version of
the above test until the SoaS instance to fails.  Standard SoaS fails
within a few hours. Installing the SoaS overlay as an ext2 filesystem
has lasted about 10X time longer before I stopped the tests.

It is going to take me a while to understand what these tests mean (if
they mean anything) and if other qemu or system factors are screwing
up the results

david

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Martin Denglermar...@martindengler.com wrote:
 On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 03:21:50PM -0500, David Farning wrote:
 Thanks for joining us Douglas.

 I would like to point out that there are two separate yet interlinked
 issues at hand:
 1. Easy and fast install.
 2. Running OS natively on removable solid state media.

 What do you mean by running OS natively?


 Douglas' Liveos solved the first issue.  It is very fast and easy to
 install an OS to a hard drive by dd'ing the contents of the overlay to
 the hard drive.

 I am suggesting that ease of installation to another medium is not
 longer the primary usecase for SoaS.

 Caroline continues to ask for easy ways to duplicate a stick.

 The primary use case is now running Sugar and the underlying OS as
 natively as possible on the removable solid state media.  The primary
 goals are now reliability and speed.

 What does as natively as possible mean?

 The issue is not that overlays are bad/good or real file systems.  The
 issue is, can SoaS improve stick reliable  and speed by eliminating
 the overlays and writing the _contents_ of the overlay directly onto
 the solid state device

 Is what you're saying that it's easier to corrupt a bit on the overlay
 than it is to corrupt a bit on a non-overlay fs?

 using a file systems which is aware of the design characteristics of
 current generations of USB keys.

 Please clarify what you mean.

 I have been conducting some very initial tests using WAD's SD card
 test tools.

 Where can these be found?

 #1. Standard SOAS.
 #2. Install the contents of the SoaS overlay to a usb key using
 #   ext2.

 Meaning what exactly?

 I am just running various methods of installing soas on USB sticks in
 qemu directly from usb sticks using

 qemu  -hda /dev/sd*

 My initial runs using the cheapest drives I could find at best buy
 indicate that #2 has at least 10X the lifetime as #1.

 What are the units in which you're measuring lifetime?

 david

 Martin

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Re: [Sugar-devel] hello and how can I Join?

[Simon Schampijer]

victor wrote:
 Hello everyone,
 
 I have finally been able to turn my attention back to OLPC/XO. So now
 I would like to see how I can join the development team in sugarlabs.

Awesome, welcome at Sugar Labs. So the first important part you already 
did - subscribe to this list and stepped up :) There is also these other 
lists that might be of interest http://lists.sugarlabs.org/ and 
join.sugarlabs.org is as well a good resource.

 Particularly my expertise is in the area of audio and there are two
 things I am particularly interested in:
 
 1. Audio infrastructure, csound integration, pulseaudio adoption etc

Actually, your expertise would be needed to get the csound packages into 
the distributions. Currently we have the standard Csound package [1] and 
the olpcsound [2] package in Fedora. We should decide which package we 
should move forward.

[1] http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=76556
[2] http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=77007

 2. Tools for music/audio activities development: csndsugui 
 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Csndsugui
 (I hope to move this to sugarlabs GIT, but I am not sure exactly where,
 since this is not actually an 'activity'). I had hopes that this module could
 eventually make it into sugar proper, once it is completed; Would that be
 a good idea?

Sure, that sounds great. You can move the repository over as a general 
project and once finished we can merge it. Instructions on how to move 
an existing repository can be found at
http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Git#Import_a_module_from_dev.laptop.org

 So basically my questions are: how to get involved with these things? Where
 to move the csndsugui repository and what else might be worth doing, 
 considering
 my areas of expertise?
 
 Also, a more practical question. What is the best way of keeping up-to-date 
 with
 sugar software for the XO? Joyrides? I am sorry bu the OLPC-sugarlabs split is
 still not clear in my mind.

So joyride is obsolete - we agreed that olpc should hop on the fedora 
train. That is why for example we try to minimize the forks of packages 
between olpc and Fedora. More Info on the exact procedure should come 
from Chris.

Currently the best is to use Sugar on a Stick 
(http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick) to use the latest Sugar 
version on the XO. The latest version is:
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2009-February/011456.html
You can copy it on the Nand for example.

Thanks,
Simon
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