Re: [Sugar-devel] New Sugar Commander for review, creates Journal entry
Tony, Feel free to clone Sugar Commander and try to create this! I won't say it isn't a good idea, but I have no inclination to do something like that myself. James Simmons On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 8:26 PM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: PS It would be fun if you could export the Journal as a text file. The Journal entry IS a text file. Sorry I should have explained myself better Not the journal entry, the journal itself, the whole journal then you could do an analysis of what you did when accross all Activities Tony ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] New Sugar Commander for review, creates Journal entry
Tony, I updated Sugar Commander this morning. You can find the new version at: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8919415/SugarCommander-8.xo I put the Description entry in the Journal entry file and give the entry a MIME of text/plain. I also fixed some bugs that prevented it from running on Fedora 10, Sugar .82. It looks pretty good except that as you pointed out you can see the Journal entry that the Activity will create before it is actually written out. I'd like to NOT list that and I'm looking for ideas on that. I still only create the Journal entry on exit. James Simmons On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:48 PM, James Simmons nices...@gmail.com wrote: Tony, I will consider saving the Journal entry with a plain text MIME type. The text file would contain the same text as in the Description. As far as saving on change of focus, I could do that but the Activity presents you with one of those Description dialogs when you exit it the first time and I think that comes up empty, so you could lose part of your record the first time you use the Activity. I can play with that a bit. I came up with the scrolling arrangement after a lot of experimentation. I agree it isn't perfect but it works better than anything else I tried. James Simmons On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 7:38 PM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: I have a new version of Sugar Commander which leaves a Journal entry behind. Tested OK on 0.84.31 0.88 and 0.92 I think the Journal entry is useful The scrollbar for description also scrolls title and tags, given that the description will get longer and longer, the title and tags will scroll a long way off screen, better if only the description scrolled. A couple of times Sugar Commander has shown two journal entries for itself but the Journal only shows one, I think its before the first save. If you copy Sugar Commander's journal entry to the clipboard and then try to keep the clipping it produces a shell error. It might be handy if the description was saved as a plain text mime. The updated description is not saved till you exit the activity, it might be better if it saved on a change of focus to be consistent with the rest of Sugar Tony ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] New Sugar Commander for review, creates Journal entry
Why do you save the entry like text/plain? If you do this, the file will be open by Read, Write, and other activities opening text files. I think is not a good idea, sorry by not replying before. Gonzalo On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:15 AM, James Simmons nices...@gmail.com wrote: Tony, I updated Sugar Commander this morning. You can find the new version at: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8919415/SugarCommander-8.xo I put the Description entry in the Journal entry file and give the entry a MIME of text/plain. I also fixed some bugs that prevented it from running on Fedora 10, Sugar .82. It looks pretty good except that as you pointed out you can see the Journal entry that the Activity will create before it is actually written out. I'd like to NOT list that and I'm looking for ideas on that. I still only create the Journal entry on exit. James Simmons On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:48 PM, James Simmons nices...@gmail.com wrote: Tony, I will consider saving the Journal entry with a plain text MIME type. The text file would contain the same text as in the Description. As far as saving on change of focus, I could do that but the Activity presents you with one of those Description dialogs when you exit it the first time and I think that comes up empty, so you could lose part of your record the first time you use the Activity. I can play with that a bit. I came up with the scrolling arrangement after a lot of experimentation. I agree it isn't perfect but it works better than anything else I tried. James Simmons On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 7:38 PM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: I have a new version of Sugar Commander which leaves a Journal entry behind. Tested OK on 0.84.31 0.88 and 0.92 I think the Journal entry is useful The scrollbar for description also scrolls title and tags, given that the description will get longer and longer, the title and tags will scroll a long way off screen, better if only the description scrolled. A couple of times Sugar Commander has shown two journal entries for itself but the Journal only shows one, I think its before the first save. If you copy Sugar Commander's journal entry to the clipboard and then try to keep the clipping it produces a shell error. It might be handy if the description was saved as a plain text mime. The updated description is not saved till you exit the activity, it might be better if it saved on a change of focus to be consistent with the rest of Sugar Tony ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] New Sugar Commander for review, creates Journal entry
Gonzalo, The Journal entry will contain a text file that has the same text as the Description. It *can* be opened by the Activities you mention, and that was my intention. By default it will open with Sugar Commander. Nobody will open it with write without wanting to. James Simmons On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:18 AM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote: Why do you save the entry like text/plain? If you do this, the file will be open by Read, Write, and other activities opening text files. I think is not a good idea, sorry by not replying before. Gonzalo On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:15 AM, James Simmons nices...@gmail.com wrote: Tony, I updated Sugar Commander this morning. You can find the new version at: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8919415/SugarCommander-8.xo I put the Description entry in the Journal entry file and give the entry a MIME of text/plain. I also fixed some bugs that prevented it from running on Fedora 10, Sugar .82. It looks pretty good except that as you pointed out you can see the Journal entry that the Activity will create before it is actually written out. I'd like to NOT list that and I'm looking for ideas on that. I still only create the Journal entry on exit. James Simmons On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:48 PM, James Simmons nices...@gmail.comwrote: Tony, I will consider saving the Journal entry with a plain text MIME type. The text file would contain the same text as in the Description. As far as saving on change of focus, I could do that but the Activity presents you with one of those Description dialogs when you exit it the first time and I think that comes up empty, so you could lose part of your record the first time you use the Activity. I can play with that a bit. I came up with the scrolling arrangement after a lot of experimentation. I agree it isn't perfect but it works better than anything else I tried. James Simmons On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 7:38 PM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: I have a new version of Sugar Commander which leaves a Journal entry behind. Tested OK on 0.84.31 0.88 and 0.92 I think the Journal entry is useful The scrollbar for description also scrolls title and tags, given that the description will get longer and longer, the title and tags will scroll a long way off screen, better if only the description scrolled. A couple of times Sugar Commander has shown two journal entries for itself but the Journal only shows one, I think its before the first save. If you copy Sugar Commander's journal entry to the clipboard and then try to keep the clipping it produces a shell error. It might be handy if the description was saved as a plain text mime. The updated description is not saved till you exit the activity, it might be better if it saved on a change of focus to be consistent with the rest of Sugar Tony ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] New Sugar Commander for review, creates Journal entry
I updated Sugar Commander this morning. You can find the new version at: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8919415/SugarCommander-8.xo I put the Description entry in the Journal entry file and give the entry a MIME of text/plain. Thanks James Tested OK on 0.84, 0.88 and 0.92 I think that being able to resume the journal entry with Write is good. Any opportunity for kids to experiment is a learning opportunity. Kids can use computers in unexpected ways and learn while doing it. That could include for example, 'sending to friend' the journal entry or doing a statistical or graphical analysis of activity. It might be good if the description and journal entry included timestamps. I caused myself a bit of confusion, editing the journal entry with write, till I realised that Commander overwrites the journal entry with the description. Confusion is good, its learning. Tony PS It would be fun if you could export the Journal as a text file. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] New Sugar Commander for review, creates Journal entry
Tony, Regarding: PS It would be fun if you could export the Journal as a text file. The Journal entry IS a text file. If you copy is to a USB drive using the Journal screen what you'll have on the drive is a text file. If you attach it to an email using gmail or Yahoo the attachment will be a text file. I'm thinking of doing pretty much the same thing with Get Internet Archive Books. The Journal entry would be a text list of the titles downloaded. If you resumed an existing session it would add the books to the end of the existing list. The list would include title, author, and language. Gonzalo might be convinced to do the same thing with Get Books. I fixed the SC code so that it saves the Journal entry when you change focus. SC still shows its own Journal object in the list but deleting it does no harm. If I can figure out how to not show that entry I will. I'll publish the finished Activity in a few days. I will probably update my book. I'll still include the modeless trick but I'll mention that it does not work in every version of Sugar and I'll suggest alternatives. James Simmons ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] New Sugar Commander for review, creates Journal entry
PS It would be fun if you could export the Journal as a text file. The Journal entry IS a text file. Sorry I should have explained myself better Not the journal entry, the journal itself, the whole journal then you could do an analysis of what you did when accross all Activities Tony ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] New Sugar Commander for review, creates Journal entry
On Mon, Aug 08, 2011 at 11:26:06AM +1000, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: Not the journal entry, the journal itself, the whole journal then you could do an analysis of what you did when accross all Activities Sounds like fun. Potentially useful for testing too, since one could capture a before and after image of the journal and diff it. Or run your journal as a git repository for what did it look like last week kind of questions. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] New Sugar Commander for review, creates Journal entry
On Sat, Aug 06, 2011 at 08:24:06AM -0500, James Simmons wrote: I have a new version of Sugar Commander which leaves a Journal entry behind. In addition to solving the problem that Tony Forster reported, it also makes a log of the activity done by the child (adding files to the Journal, updating metadata, resizing images, deleting Journal entries) and puts this log in the Description. This log is appended to whatever is already there, so if the child makes a Description the first time he runs the Activity the log will go under that, and if the Journal entry is resumed the new log will be appended to the existing log. In more or less recent 0.92, it works fine for me (doesn't fail and can't reproduce #3013) http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8919415/SugarCommander-8.xo in that case, what do you think about having stability levels for activities, ie, if people prefer stable versions, they will use them all time. But, developer is free to relese development/testing versions as frequently as he prefer to let some users a chance to test them (by following the same launching scenario if only addition is explicitly allowing run non-stable versions). I'd like some feedback before I post to ASLO. I think the Journal entry I create is at least somewhat useful. For the record, I still think stateless Activities should be possible in future versions of Sugar. +1 sugar should not restrict doers creating such activities (especially when it makes sence like in a la Journal activities). In any other cases doers might create statefull activities (but sugar is not perfect for that case right now, eg, we have resume-by-default but we have the Home view when users can start spaming journal by new jobjects). -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] New Sugar Commander for review, creates Journal entry
Aleksey, I think what I'm doing with Dropbox is an adequate way of getting some pre-release testing beyond the testing I do myself. I'm going to see if I get any more feedback then post to ASLO this afternoon. None of my Activities are complex enough to require extensive beta testing. I just figured that if someone besides me looked at it he might hit that one corner case I'd forgotten. Did you check out the log entry in the Journal? Did it look useful to you? James Simmons On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Aleksey Lim alsr...@activitycentral.orgwrote: On Sat, Aug 06, 2011 at 08:24:06AM -0500, James Simmons wrote: I have a new version of Sugar Commander which leaves a Journal entry behind. In addition to solving the problem that Tony Forster reported, it also makes a log of the activity done by the child (adding files to the Journal, updating metadata, resizing images, deleting Journal entries) and puts this log in the Description. This log is appended to whatever is already there, so if the child makes a Description the first time he runs the Activity the log will go under that, and if the Journal entry is resumed the new log will be appended to the existing log. In more or less recent 0.92, it works fine for me (doesn't fail and can't reproduce #3013) http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8919415/SugarCommander-8.xo in that case, what do you think about having stability levels for activities, ie, if people prefer stable versions, they will use them all time. But, developer is free to relese development/testing versions as frequently as he prefer to let some users a chance to test them (by following the same launching scenario if only addition is explicitly allowing run non-stable versions). I'd like some feedback before I post to ASLO. I think the Journal entry I create is at least somewhat useful. For the record, I still think stateless Activities should be possible in future versions of Sugar. +1 sugar should not restrict doers creating such activities (especially when it makes sence like in a la Journal activities). In any other cases doers might create statefull activities (but sugar is not perfect for that case right now, eg, we have resume-by-default but we have the Home view when users can start spaming journal by new jobjects). -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] New Sugar Commander for review, creates Journal entry
On Sat, Aug 06, 2011 at 11:10:22AM -0500, James Simmons wrote: Aleksey, ... Did you check out the log entry in the Journal? yup, it added a log entry to the SugarCommander object's description Did it look useful to you? no comments, I guess I'm not from the targeted users group of this activity... just checked for errors in my env -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] New Sugar Commander for review, creates Journal entry
On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 9:24 AM, James Simmons nices...@gmail.com wrote: I have a new version of Sugar Commander which leaves a Journal entry behind. In addition to solving the problem that Tony Forster reported, it also makes a log of the activity done by the child (adding files to the Journal, updating metadata, resizing images, deleting Journal entries) and puts this log in the Description. This log is appended to whatever is already there, so if the child makes a Description the first time he runs the Activity the log will go under that, and if the Journal entry is resumed the new log will be appended to the existing log. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8919415/SugarCommander-8.xo I'd like some feedback before I post to ASLO. I think the Journal entry I create is at least somewhat useful. For the record, I still think stateless Activities should be possible in future versions of Sugar. James Simmons I tried Sugar Commander 8 on an XO-1.0 with build 874. When it first opens on the Journal tab, there is a blank template. Once Title, Description, or Tags text is entered an un-Sugar-like 'Save' button activates. It is not clear at this point that this metadata will apply to the current Sugar Commander entry as nothing is selected in the listing. If the Save button is NOT clicked at this point, but instead the toolbar Stop button, a preview shot of the screen with the changes is automatically saved and shows in the resumed activity entry for Sugar Commander Activity (the Title, Description, Tags text fields have not been updated. The activity would better match the Sugar keeping model, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Human_Interface_Guidelines/The_Laptop_Experience/The_Journal#The_Notion_of_.22Keeping.22 if the metadata content changes were automatically kept whenever the focus changed to a new entry, another running activity or system view, or the activity exits and the 'Save' button were not present. I would also find it valuable to restore the view of the last viewed entry together with the last selected sorts and tab. This better fits the 'resume' where I left off concept. Thanks for all the work! --Fred ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] New Sugar Commander for review, creates Journal entry
I have a new version of Sugar Commander which leaves a Journal entry behind. Tested OK on 0.84.31 0.88 and 0.92 I think the Journal entry is useful The scrollbar for description also scrolls title and tags, given that the description will get longer and longer, the title and tags will scroll a long way off screen, better if only the description scrolled. A couple of times Sugar Commander has shown two journal entries for itself but the Journal only shows one, I think its before the first save. If you copy Sugar Commander's journal entry to the clipboard and then try to keep the clipping it produces a shell error. It might be handy if the description was saved as a plain text mime. The updated description is not saved till you exit the activity, it might be better if it saved on a change of focus to be consistent with the rest of Sugar Tony ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] New Sugar Commander for review, creates Journal entry
Tony, I will consider saving the Journal entry with a plain text MIME type. The text file would contain the same text as in the Description. As far as saving on change of focus, I could do that but the Activity presents you with one of those Description dialogs when you exit it the first time and I think that comes up empty, so you could lose part of your record the first time you use the Activity. I can play with that a bit. I came up with the scrolling arrangement after a lot of experimentation. I agree it isn't perfect but it works better than anything else I tried. James Simmons On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 7:38 PM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: I have a new version of Sugar Commander which leaves a Journal entry behind. Tested OK on 0.84.31 0.88 and 0.92 I think the Journal entry is useful The scrollbar for description also scrolls title and tags, given that the description will get longer and longer, the title and tags will scroll a long way off screen, better if only the description scrolled. A couple of times Sugar Commander has shown two journal entries for itself but the Journal only shows one, I think its before the first save. If you copy Sugar Commander's journal entry to the clipboard and then try to keep the clipping it produces a shell error. It might be handy if the description was saved as a plain text mime. The updated description is not saved till you exit the activity, it might be better if it saved on a change of focus to be consistent with the rest of Sugar Tony ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
