R: bad people on the list
There's an old saying where I come from: When you're in a hole, stop digging. Given that, I will just slip into the background. I'm quite sure that Fernando cannot be the author of that crazy message : anyway let me take the occasion to say that up to now I've learned a lot of things thanks to you, Jim . I'd like to continue . Best regards Alberto Nicelli Italy (45* 28' N ; 7* 52' E) -Messaggio originale- Da: Jim Morrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] A: sundial sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de Data: domenica 18 aprile 1999 18.25 Oggetto: Re: bad people on the list I'm not sure how to respond. I've never been called a fraud before. Perhaps it is about time. At any rate, the primary source for my calculation of the equation of time is W.M. Smart, Textbook on Spherical Astronomy, Sixth Edition, Dover (1979), sections 85-91, with additional material from The Explanatory Supplement to the Astronomical Almanac. It makes sense to me. As for being a 'true' dialist, I have been designing and making sundials for 22 years. I also worked as an orbital mechanic on the Apollo program. There's an old saying where I come from: When you're in a hole, stop digging. Given that, I will just slip into the background. Best regards, Jim James E. Morrison Astrolabe web pages at: http://myhouse.com/mc/planet/astrodir/astrolab.htm - Original Message - From: Fernando Cabral [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 11:24 PM Subject: bad people on the list Hello to All. I hate to start something, but I think that Jim Morrison is a fraud. I have check his equations for EOT, and I believe that he just made them up. Here in Brasilia, we have a saying to translate which means, even a stupid man may be considered wise if he keeps his mouth shut. If you don't know something Jim, than be graceful enough to ask for help for someone who does. But please don't make up non-factuous nonsense. I know that Jim is not a true dialist, that his interests are elsewhere, and maybe he is just jealous of the rest of us. I hope I have not to offend anyone, I'm just helping to keep everyone aware of the facts. Fernando ___ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
Good people on list
Congrats to those who track down forgers, spread info on how to do this (helpful on other lists as well), and in general serve Truth. I wouldn't expect anything else out of this list. Bill Thayer LacusCurtius http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman
Re: Unusual Sundial - Update
At 07:49 AM 4/15/99 -0400, you wrote: Dear Friends, Fernando Cabral visited the unusual sundial at Randolph Air Force Base in San Antonio Texas recently, and returned with some new photographs, including one showing the new broken part. Dear Bob and All I think the newly found part is one half of an Equatorial Circle. It was probably supported by an Horizon Circle and by a missing piece of the Meridian Circle. The Horizon Circle may have had additional support by braces from the two rusty machine screws shown in the photo entitled This is the EOT. Inside the above circles, all of the same inside diameter, the was probably the HOUR ANGLE ARC referred to in the directions, and pivoted on the polar axis just inside the Meridian Circle. The position of the HOUR ANGLE ARC could be read from the hour calibrations on the inside edge of the Equatorial Circle (newly found part). Inside all of this would be theGLOBE referred to in the directions and nicely portrayed in your drawing of a conjectural restoration. This GLOBE could have simply had geographical or celestial coordinates on it as you have shown, or more likely was a terrestrial globe. A third, but less likely possibility was that it had a horizon system of coordinates. This is suggested by the statement that it SOLVES ASTRONOMICAL TRIANGLE ETC. No one of these globes need be transparent. The GLOBE is probably fixed so that it usually does not rotate. (Note the rusty holes in the Meridian and the Longitude circles in your third photo. A rod through them would fix the Longitude Circle with 100 W just under the missing portion of the Meridian Circle. This is close to the longitude of San Antonio. Also note that the polar axis in inclined from the horizontal at an angle close to 30 degrees, near the latitude of San Antonio. I think San Antonio (R.A.F.B.) was meant to be fixed at the top of the oriented globe) An important feature of the HOUR ANGLE ARC was that it was probably made of two parallel flat circular plates or rings with a small space between them that the sun could shine through. Mounted on this HOUR ANGLE ARC should be a SLIDE (a short, sheet metal sleeve that surrounds the ARC with holes on the inner and outer surfaces that let the sun shine through between the plates. The SLIDE moves up and down along the ARC between 23 1/2 degrees north and south of the equator. This part of the ARC in calibrated with dates corresponding to the declination of the Sun. Now the directions can be interpreted: A. SUN'S PATH AND TIME OF SUNRISE AND SUNSET 1. MOVE THE SLIDE TO DESIRED DATE. 2. MOVE HOUR ANGLE ARC UNTIL THE HORIZON IS ALIGNED WITH THE HOLE. The outer hole of the SLIDE meets the Horizon Circle at the time and direction of SUNRISE. 3. READ THE TIME OPPOSITE THE POINTER. Read the time on the Equatorial Circle. 4. MOVE HOUR ANGLE FROM SUNRISE AND SUNSET--THIS REPRESENTS SUN'S PATH FOR THAT PARTICULAR DATE. Follow the movement of the inner hole on the SLIDE across the GLOBE. If the GLOBE is an oriented terrestrial globe the hole traces the path of the overhead Sun over the Earth. If the GLOBE is an Horizon Coordinate System the hole traces the path of the Sun across the sky. B. SUN TIME 1. SET DATE IN SLIDE 2. MOVE HOUR ANGLE UNTIL A CIRCULAR SUN SPOT IS FORMED ON THE GLOBE. This would be a spot just under the inner hole of the slider. The Sun is then directly over the slider and the HOUR ANGLE ARC is aligned with the hour angle of the Sun. This shows the spot on the Earth when the Sun is overhead at the moment. 3. READ THE TIME OPPOSITE POINTER. This would be read on the inner scale of the Equatorial Circle. There, I hope you have been able to follow this. A picture or two would have done this more briefly and clearer, but I have not yet learned how to convert my drawings into files you can read. I have in the distant past made a device I used in teaching very much along the lines of what I have described. It was made of wood and Hula-hoop rings. An oriented terrestrial globe in the sunlight shows many other interesting things. Among them it shows the portion of the Earth in sunlight an any one time. Thanks for listening. Bill
bad people on the list
Hello to All. I hate to start something, but I think that Jim Morrison is a fraud. I have check his equations for EOT, and I believe that he just made them up. Here in Brasilia, we have a saying to translate which means, even a stupid man may be considered wise if he keeps his mouth shut. If you don't know something Jim, than be graceful enough to ask for help for someone who does. But please don't make up non-factuous nonsense. I know that Jim is not a true dialist, that his interests are elsewhere, and maybe he is just jealous of the rest of us. I hope I have not to offend anyone, I'm just helping to keep everyone aware of the facts. Fernando ___ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
Re: bad people on the list
Dear Jim, Congratulations for your reply! I highly appreciate your knowledge and contributed value to thius list w.r.t. sundials, astrolabes, etc. Please keep on posting your mails to this list. Kind regards, Hans Sassenburg
Re: bad people on the list
I'm not sure how to respond. I've never been called a fraud before. Perhaps it is about time. At any rate, the primary source for my calculation of the equation of time is W.M. Smart, Textbook on Spherical Astronomy, Sixth Edition, Dover (1979), sections 85-91, with additional material from The Explanatory Supplement to the Astronomical Almanac. It makes sense to me. As for being a 'true' dialist, I have been designing and making sundials for 22 years. I also worked as an orbital mechanic on the Apollo program. There's an old saying where I come from: When you're in a hole, stop digging. Given that, I will just slip into the background. Best regards, Jim James E. Morrison Astrolabe web pages at: http://myhouse.com/mc/planet/astrodir/astrolab.htm - Original Message - From: Fernando Cabral [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 11:24 PM Subject: bad people on the list Hello to All. I hate to start something, but I think that Jim Morrison is a fraud. I have check his equations for EOT, and I believe that he just made them up. Here in Brasilia, we have a saying to translate which means, even a stupid man may be considered wise if he keeps his mouth shut. If you don't know something Jim, than be graceful enough to ask for help for someone who does. But please don't make up non-factuous nonsense. I know that Jim is not a true dialist, that his interests are elsewhere, and maybe he is just jealous of the rest of us. I hope I have not to offend anyone, I'm just helping to keep everyone aware of the facts. Fernando ___ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
Re: bad people on the list
I agree with Richard. I think there is a malicious impostor posing as Fernando. As a 'lurker' on this this message board, I have looked back over my collection of postings over several months. Not only does the message in question come from a different email address and is missing Fernando's usual email 'signature', but Fernando never capitalises the 'F' on his name when signing off. Best wishes Jon Urwin PS In general, I really enjoy reading everyone's messages and have learned a great deal from this group. -Original Message- From: Richard Langley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de Date: 18 April 1999 18:20 Subject: Re: bad people on the list Is this really from Fernando? Doesn't sound like it. Note that the posting did not origniate from his usual e-mail address but from Hot Mail. Do we have a Fernando imposter? -- Richard Langley Professor of Geodesy and Precision Navigation On Sat, 17 Apr 1999, Fernando Cabral wrote: Hello to All. I hate to start something, but I think that Jim Morrison is a fraud. I have check his equations for EOT, and I believe that he just made them up. Here in Brasilia, we have a saying to translate which means, even a stupid man may be considered wise if he keeps his mouth shut. If you don't know something Jim, than be graceful enough to ask for help for someone who does. But please don't make up non-factuous nonsense. I know that Jim is not a true dialist, that his interests are elsewhere, and maybe he is just jealous of the rest of us. I hope I have not to offend anyone, I'm just helping to keep everyone aware of the facts. Fernando ___ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com === Richard B. LangleyE-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Geodetic Research Laboratory Web: http://www.unb.ca/GGE/ Dept. of Geodesy and Geomatics EngineeringPhone:+1 506 453-5142 University of New Brunswick Fax: +1 506 453-4943 Fredericton, N.B., Canada E3B 5A3 Fredericton? Where's that? See: http://www.city.fredericton.nb.ca/ ===
Who is really bad people on the list
From: Fernando Cabral [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de Subject: bad people on the list Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 20:24:46 PDT Hello to All. I hate to start something, but I think that Jim Morrison is a fraud. I have check his equations for EOT, and I believe that he just made them up. Here in Brasilia, we have a saying to translate which means, even a stupid man may be considered wise if he keeps his mouth shut. If you don't know something Jim, than be graceful enough to ask for help for someone who does. But please don't make up non-factuous nonsense. I know that Jim is not a true dialist, that his interests are elsewhere, and maybe he is just jealous of the rest of us. I hope I have not to offend anyone, I'm just helping to keep everyone aware of the facts. Sorry, but I do not understand your letter. Please think twice before you send something like that. Krzysztof Kotynia
Re: bad people on the list
My apologies to the good folks on the sundial mailing list for having to put up with the above off-topic administrivia. But knowing how to determine an e-mail forgery is, sadly, becoming a necessary skill in today's e-world. I now consider it a must-have tool in one's baloney detection kit. No, no, no! Do not apologize. This was a most instructive post which I shall keep for future reference. Keep it up. Mike Koblic, Quesnel BC
Shame on you
Hello All: I too just read Jim Morrison's EOT equations with great interest but I have not digested them yet. I don't know if they are true or false. Even if they are incorrect, that is no reason for Fernando to have lashed out against Jim. I think Jim has been a valuable and intelligent member of this discussion group. He comes up with his own theories, like we all do, then he presents them to the group for discussion, correction, affirmation, fine-tuning or whatever. If you think he is wrong, Fernando, then you should tell him so, privately, in a friendly, civilized manner. I think that you might have been projecting when you called him a fraud, a stupid and bad man. I think Fernando owes Jim Morrison a sincere apology. John Carmichael Tucson
Re: bad people on the list
Is this really from Fernando? Doesn't sound like it. Note that the posting did not origniate from his usual e-mail address but from Hot Mail. Do we have a Fernando imposter? -- Richard Langley Professor of Geodesy and Precision Navigation On Sat, 17 Apr 1999, Fernando Cabral wrote: Hello to All. I hate to start something, but I think that Jim Morrison is a fraud. I have check his equations for EOT, and I believe that he just made them up. Here in Brasilia, we have a saying to translate which means, even a stupid man may be considered wise if he keeps his mouth shut. If you don't know something Jim, than be graceful enough to ask for help for someone who does. But please don't make up non-factuous nonsense. I know that Jim is not a true dialist, that his interests are elsewhere, and maybe he is just jealous of the rest of us. I hope I have not to offend anyone, I'm just helping to keep everyone aware of the facts. Fernando ___ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com === Richard B. LangleyE-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Geodetic Research Laboratory Web: http://www.unb.ca/GGE/ Dept. of Geodesy and Geomatics EngineeringPhone:+1 506 453-5142 University of New Brunswick Fax: +1 506 453-4943 Fredericton, N.B., Canada E3B 5A3 Fredericton? Where's that? See: http://www.city.fredericton.nb.ca/ ===
