Re: 3-D gnomon for Polar Dial

[john . davis]

Hi Mac et al,

You are, of course, completely right - you can turn a polar dial around its 
gnomon to make allowance for the EoT - my humble apologies.  It isn't intuitive 
(to me, at least) that this should work and I foolishly made my comment without 
experimenting or doing the maths.  I have now done so and it is quickly clear 
that the distance of the shadow edge from the noon line is the height of the 
gnomon multiplied by the tan of (hour angle plus rotation angle of the 
dialplate).

Question: does it become a declining polar dial once the dialplate is rotated?!

The mechanics of making such a dial will be interesting if it is to be robust 
enough to survive the elements.  Does anyone know of a real dial in a public 
place?

Happy Hogmanay to all diallists,

John Davis
-



Dr J R Davis
Flowton Dials
N52d 08m: E1d 05m
-

Re: Blenheim dial??

[john . davis]

Hi Fred et al,

I too saw this posting and contacted the chap who posted it.  From his 
description, this is definitely NOT one of the set of four dials that John 
Rowley made for Blenheim Palace c1710.

In fact, I strongly suspect that what he has is one of the 20C Pearson-Page 
"reproductions".  If this is so, I would regard the Blenheim connection as 
"added colour"!

Regards,

John Davis
---

>  from:Fred Sawyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  date:Mon, 30 Dec 2002 00:23:04
>  to:  sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de
>  subject: Re: Blenheim dial??
> 
> The following message appears on the NASS message board:
> 
> >From Lance Steel ([EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> I own a sundial made of bronze and engraved 1723. It was reputedly
> "liberated" from the grounds of Blenheim palace, Oxford, England during WW
> II. I have been trying to find pictures of the back of the palace taken
> prior to that date to see if the sundial is there. Can anyone advise as to
> where I may obtain further information on it?
> 
> 
> -



Dr J R Davis
Flowton Dials
N52d 08m: E1d 05m
-

Forwarding some questions, re. sundial 'equinox accuracy'

[Mr. D. Hunt]

Our sundial business regularly receives questions via our Website, (mainly
from pupils wanting us to help with school projects) - but I am forwarding
this one to the "Sundial Mailing List", as it is more unusual than normal.


> From: "signelerin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:30:15 -0600


> My name is Signe Best, and I am hoping you will be able to answer a
> few questions I have about sundials and the shadows they cast at
> certain times of the year.

> I understand that the time of the equinox is the moment the sun's
> shadow becomes exact with the line of the equator making day and night
> of nearly equal length (12 hrs), and the exact point when winter becomes
> spring.  The official equinox date varies from March 20-22 according to
> the US Naval Observatory.  Will the literal observation of a sundial
> pinpoint more accurately than 3 days ?   If this sundial was set up in
> Jerusalem, would it show the exact day that winter ends and spring
> begins ?   Has anyone counted the days according to a sundial from the
> 1st day of spring one year to the 1st day of spring the next ?   Will
> this always be the same amount of days ?   Have you ever recorded the
> moment when winter ends and spring begins, from any sundial ?   Was
> this the same day as the official equinox ?

> These questions are of a religious nature for me.  Any assistance would
> be greatly appreciated, or perhaps you could direct me to someone who
> could help.

> Thank You, in advance !

> Signe Best


Maybe members of this "Sundial Mailing List" could E-mail direct to Signe,
as well as 'copying' their thoughts to the list for the benefit of others.

I shall take this opportunity to wish all members a very "Happy New Year".

Best Regards,

Douglas Hunt.

-- 

"MODERN SUNCLOCKS" - 'Human Sundials', using YOUR OWN SHADOW to tell time.

Looking for a useful, decorative, yet UNIQUE feature ? - you've found it !
For further details and photographs, see our Website at: www.sunclocks.com

Mail Address: 1 Love Street, Kilwinning, Ayrshire, Scotland, KA13 7LQ, UK.
Tel & Fax (UK): 01294 552250.   International Tel & Fax: + 44 1294 552250.
E-mails to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   OR   [EMAIL PROTECTED]





-

RE: corrupt IgNoble instruments

[Sara Schechner]

I presume that this dial was patterned after an equatorial dial with a polar
gnomon.


That's a good theory, Roger, but it doesn't explain why its latitude arm is 
graduated backwards and has too limited a range or degrees!

 This poor creature is like some Frankenstein's monster.

But I am sure that you are right in general about people's expectations for 
the triangular gnomon.


Cheers, Sara

-

Re: Blenheim dial??

[Sara Schechner]

You wrote the NASS message board:
>>>I own a sundial made of bronze and engraved 1723. It was reputedly
"liberated" from the grounds of Blenheim palace, Oxford, England during WW
II. I have been trying to find pictures of the back of the palace taken
prior to that date to see if the sundial is there. Can anyone advise as to
where I may obtain further information on it?<<<

The best source for documentation concerning the history and provenance of 
your sundial, if indeed it did belong to the first Duke of Marlborough or 
one of his descendants, would be the Curator or Keeper of Blenheim 
Palace.  As a start, please contact the Administration Office to find out 
who this is and how to be directly in touch with him or her.


  B L E N H E I MP A L A C E
   Woodstock, Oxon, OX20 1PX.
   Telephone: 01993 811091Fax: 
01993 813527
e-mail: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


In exchange for copies of their documentation, you will be asked to provide 
photographs of your sundial and information on how you acquired the sundial.


If it appears that the sundial was formerly installed on the Blenheim 
grounds, then you may be asked to return it to the present Duke of 
Marlborough.  In principal, you would not be rewarded for the return of 
stolen property.  However, if it appears that you acquired the sundial in 
good faith, the Blenheim staff acting for the Duke might offer you some 
appropriate compensation.


I would strongly urge you to accept any compensation gracefully in exchange 
for delivering the sundial to them, should you learn that it rightly 
belongs to Blenheim.


Sincerely,
Sara Schechner
Sara Schechner, Ph.D.
David P. Wheatland Curator
Collection of Historical Scientific Instruments
Harvard University, Science Center B-6
1 Oxford Street, Cambridge MA 02138
617-496-9542 (Tel)
617-496-5932 (Fax)

-

Re: corrupt IgNoble instruments

[John Carmichael]

Like this one Roger?
Click on:
http://www.sundialsculptures.com/content/examples/thick-gnomon.html
John

John L. Carmichael Jr.
Sundial Sculptures
925 E. Foothills Dr.
Tucson Arizona 85718
USA

Tel: 520-696-1709
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website: 
- Original Message -
From: "Roger Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 9:23 PM
Subject: RE: corrupt IgNoble instruments


> I presume that this dial was patterned after an equatorial dial with a
polar
> gnomon. Sales were poor because it didn't look like a sundial. Don't
> sundials have a triangular thingy called a gnomon? When the triangular
> gnomon was added, sales increased dramatically. It now looked like a real
> "sundial".
>
> John Carmichael and others should note this well. Think how your sales
would
> soar if you added a triangular thingy to all your designs! They would then
> look like "sundials".
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger Bailey
>
> -
>
> -
>


-

Re: Lady wants Polyhedral Dial

[DMBsundial]

I have taken up the challenge of a desk-top polyhedral dial with Esther 
Hope 
and work is progressing nicely!  She is very content with work done so far. 
David Brown
-

Need Sundial Review Website

[John Carmichael]

Hi Steve and others,

I tried to make light talk about the little Frankenstein Sundial by The
Nobel Collection in my first email (remember the hubbub over the DST human
analemmatic?) but inside I was really pissed off for three reasons:

1.  They cheated my friend, the person who gave it to me and who spent a lot
of money.
2.  I am in direct competition with this company, their product, and their
glamorous false advertising. But I am playing by the rules and they are not.
3.  They don't have an address that I can write to or a number to call.

It was also upsetting that this is just another flawed sundial that we can
add to a growing list of flawed sundials that are flooding our small sundial
market. I couldn't agree more with Steve's concern about this and I also
wonder about existing legislation. I think reputable sundial sellers and the
buying public need a way to protect themselves from this sort thing.

But perhaps there is a better way that wouldn't involve lawsuits.  I know
that before people buy anything, they like to read reviews of what's
currently for sale in the industry. ( That's how I picked out my digital
camera). The internet is LOADED with reviews for just about everything.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a website of Sundial Reviews?  It wouldn't have
to be associated with NASS or BSS. The reviews could be written by a group
of dialists and/or by customers.

I know my idea for a Sundial Makers Association didn't float, but a website
of Sundial Reviews would be a lot less ambitious and very effective.

Just a Thought

John

p.s. If anybody wants to see a close-up photo of the Nobel Frankenstein
Sundial and a scan of their signed "Certificate of Authenticity" that I dug
out of the trash, tell me and I'll sent you an attachment.

I'm mad!

John L. Carmichael Jr.
Sundial Sculptures
925 E. Foothills Dr.
Tucson Arizona 85718
USA

Tel: 520-696-1709
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website: 
- Original Message -
From: "Steve Lelievre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: corrupt instruments


> Sara wrote (snipped)...
>
> > One reader took me to task for my use of the word "corrupt" and perhaps
> > others were equally puzzled.
>
> Well, I for one had no problem seeing it as corrupt (modern). But if we
> don't like corrupt, how about fraudulent?
>
> The site says the dial is "...an  authentic replica  ...exacting in
> detail...calibrated to count the hours by the sun's rays..."
>
> Doesn't the US have any consumer protection legislation to say that
products
> must be fit for the advertised purpose?
>
> Steve
>
> (original, snipped...)
> >  >What bugs me about this kind of rubbish is that for all the effort
that
> >  > went into making the castings, the company could just as easily have
> made
> >  > them right as wrongIs this just do to ignorance, laziness, or
> > corruptness?
> >
> -
>


-

Re: Need Sundial Review Website

[Brooke Clarke]

Hello John:

A 'Whois" on their web page turns up:

Registrant:
NOBLE COLLECTION (NOBLECOLLECTION4-DOM)
   21731-B Filigree Ct.
   ASHBURN, VA 20147
   US

   Domain Name: NOBLECOLLECTION.COM

   Administrative Contact:
  NOBLE COLLECTION  (NC2808-ORG)  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  NOBLE COLLECTION
  21731-B Filigree Ct.
  ASHBURN, VA 20147
  US
  703 858 4340
  Fax- 703 858 4350
   Technical Contact:
  HABIB, CHRISTINE-WN-JGEG  (CHJ258)  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  NOBLE COLLECTION
  21731-B Filigree Ct
  ASHBURN, VA 20147
  703 858 4340

Brooke Clarke

John Carmichael wrote:

> Hi Steve and others,
>
> I tried to make light talk about the little Frankenstein Sundial by The
> Nobel Collection in my first email (remember the hubbub over the DST human
> analemmatic?) but inside I was really pissed off for three reasons:
>
> 1.  They cheated my friend, the person who gave it to me and who spent a lot
> of money.
> 2.  I am in direct competition with this company, their product, and their
> glamorous false advertising. But I am playing by the rules and they are not.
> 3.  They don't have an address that I can write to or a number to call.
>
> It was also upsetting that this is just another flawed sundial that we can
> add to a growing list of flawed sundials that are flooding our small sundial
> market. I couldn't agree more with Steve's concern about this and I also
> wonder about existing legislation. I think reputable sundial sellers and the
> buying public need a way to protect themselves from this sort thing.
>
> But perhaps there is a better way that wouldn't involve lawsuits.  I know
> that before people buy anything, they like to read reviews of what's
> currently for sale in the industry. ( That's how I picked out my digital
> camera). The internet is LOADED with reviews for just about everything.
> Wouldn't it be nice to have a website of Sundial Reviews?  It wouldn't have
> to be associated with NASS or BSS. The reviews could be written by a group
> of dialists and/or by customers.
>
> I know my idea for a Sundial Makers Association didn't float, but a website
> of Sundial Reviews would be a lot less ambitious and very effective.
>
> Just a Thought
>
> John
>
> p.s. If anybody wants to see a close-up photo of the Nobel Frankenstein
> Sundial and a scan of their signed "Certificate of Authenticity" that I dug
> out of the trash, tell me and I'll sent you an attachment.
>
> I'm mad!
>
> John L. Carmichael Jr.
> Sundial Sculptures
> 925 E. Foothills Dr.
> Tucson Arizona 85718
> USA
>
> Tel: 520-696-1709
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Website: 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Steve Lelievre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 1:04 PM
> Subject: Re: corrupt instruments
>
> > Sara wrote (snipped)...
> >
> > > One reader took me to task for my use of the word "corrupt" and perhaps
> > > others were equally puzzled.
> >
> > Well, I for one had no problem seeing it as corrupt (modern). But if we
> > don't like corrupt, how about fraudulent?
> >
> > The site says the dial is "...an  authentic replica  ...exacting in
> > detail...calibrated to count the hours by the sun's rays..."
> >
> > Doesn't the US have any consumer protection legislation to say that
> products
> > must be fit for the advertised purpose?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > (original, snipped...)
> > >  >What bugs me about this kind of rubbish is that for all the effort
> that
> > >  > went into making the castings, the company could just as easily have
> > made
> > >  > them right as wrongIs this just do to ignorance, laziness, or
> > > corruptness?
> > >
> > -
> >
>
> -

-