Geneva sundials

2011-03-08 Thread david
Dear All,

Can anyone direct me to some on-line illustrations and locations of
sundials in the Geneva region?
Thank you in anticipation of your help.
Yours sincerely,
David M Brown
Somerton, Somerset, UK

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Re: Geneva sundials

2011-03-08 Thread Willy Leenders
David,

I send you in a separate e-mail a copy of the pages from the catalog of 
sundials in Germany and Swistzerland concerning the sundials in Geneva

Willy Leenders
Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium)

Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with 
a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): 
http://www.wijzerweb.be







Op 8-mrt-2011, om 10:46 heeft da...@davidbrownsundials.com het volgende 
geschreven:

 Dear All,
 
 Can anyone direct me to some on-line illustrations and locations of
 sundials in the Geneva region?
 Thank you in anticipation of your help.
 Yours sincerely,
 David M Brown
 Somerton, Somerset, UK
 
 ---
 https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
 

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A 14th century sundial question from France.

2011-03-08 Thread Bill Gottesman
Richard Kremer, the Dartmouth physics professor who brought the ~1773 
Dartmouth Sundial to display at the NASS convention this past summer, 
asked me the following question.  I have done a bit of modelling on it, 
and have not been able to supply a satisfactory answer.  Is anyone 
interested in offering any insight?  My hunch is that the astronomer who 
wrote this guessed at many of these numbers, and that they will be 
estimates at best for whatever model they are based on.  I have tried to 
fit them to antique, equal, and Babylonian hours, without success.  In 
1320, the equinoxes occured around March and Sept 14 by the Julian 
Calendar, as best I can tell, and that doesn't seem to help any.


-Bill
---
I've got a sundial geometry question for you and presume that either 
you, or someone you know, can sort it out for me.


A colleague has found a table of shadow lengths in a medieval 
astronomical table (about 1320 in Paris).  The table gives six sets of 
lengths, for 2-month intervals, and clearly refers to some kind of 
gnomon that is casting the shadows.  The manuscript containing this 
table of shadow lengths appears in a manuscript written by Paris around 
1320 by John of Murs, a leading Parisian astronomer.  I don't know 
whether Murs himself composed the table or whether he found it in some 
other source.  The question is, what kind of dial is this.  A simple 
vertical gnomon on a horizontal dial does not fit the data, which I give 
below.


 Dec-Jan
 hour 1 27 feet
 hour 2 17 feet
 hour 3 13 feet
 hour 4 10 feet
 hour 5 8 feet
 hour 6 [i.e., noon] 7 feet

 Nov-Feb
 1 26
 2 16
 3 12
 4 9
 5 7
 6 6

 Oct-Mar
 1 25
 2 15
 3 11
 4 8
 5 6
 6 5

 Sept-Apr
 1 24
 2 14
 3 10
 4 7
 5 5
 6 4

 Aug-May
 1 23
 2 13
 3 9
 4 6
 5 4
 6 3

 Jul-Jun
 1 22
 2 12
 3 8
 4 5
 5 3
 6 2

 Note that in each set, the shadow lengths decrease in identical 
intervals (-10, -4, -3, -2, -1).  This might suggest that the table is 
generated by some rule of thumb and not by exact geometrical 
calculation, for by first principles I would not expect these same 
decreasing intervals to be found in all six sets!


 I started playing with the noon shadow lengths at the solstices, 
looking for a gnomon arrangement that yields equal lengths of the gnomon 
for shadow lengths of 7 (Dec) and 2 (Jun) units.  If you assume the dial 
is horizontal and you tilt the gnomon toward the north by 55 degs, my 
math shows that you get a gnomon length of 2.16 units.  I assume that 
Paris latitude is 49 degs and the obliquity of the ecliptic is 23.5 degs 
(commonly used in middle ages).


 I'm too lazy to figure out the shadow lengths for the other hours of 
the day with a slanted gnomon, and presume that you have software that 
can easily do that.  Would you be willing to play around a bit with the 
above lengths and see if you can determine what gnomon arrangement might 
yield these data?  Perhaps the dial is vertical rather than horizontal?  
In any case, the data are symmetrical, so the gnomon must be in the 
plane of the meridian.


 Knowing that you like puzzles, I thought I'd pass this one on to you.  
If you don't have time for it, don't worry.  This is not the most 
important problem currently facing the history of astronomy!


 Best, Rich
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