Re: Adjusting dial to new location

2023-04-05 Thread Michael Ossipoff
 Contrary to what I suggested yesterday, the adjustment of a sundial to
give LTST at the standard-meridian doesn’t require solution of a system of
equations. It’s a straightforward coordinate-transformation:

…

Say the dial-plate is circular. For a sphere that circumscribes that
dial-plate, the equatorial-coordinates on the sphere, of a point at the top
of that sphere, are (Lat, 0).

...

…where Lat is the latitude of the dial’s location, & 0 is defined as the
longitude of the topmost meridian in the equatorial-system.

…

Now, say your location is 7 degrees east of your standard meridian. You
want to change the equatorial-coordinates of that top-point to (Lat, 7).

...

(…because let’s say that hour-angle (equatorial-longitude) is measured
clockwise (westward) from the NS meridian, as it normally is.)

…

That’s the top-points coordinates in the equatorial system when the sphere
has been rotated 7 degrees about its polar-axis, toward the
standard-meridian.

...

Now transform the top-point’s coordinates (Lat, 7) to the horizontal
coordinate-system.

…

That gives you the azimuth & altitude of the top-point, as seen from the
center of the sphere.

…

The dial-edge is a great circle on the sphere, all of which is 90 degrees
away from the former top-point.

…

The place on the dial-plate that should be raised is the place 180 degrees
from the top-point’s azimuth.

…
Raise that point by an angle equal to the complement of the altitude of the
top-point

On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 5:30 PM Steve Lelievre <
steve.lelievre.can...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Can anyone point me to an existing online calculator for making a wedge
> to adjust a horizontal dial to a new latitude and longitude?
>
> I am not asking for an explanation of how to do the calculation; I just
> want to be able to point people to a calculator that has already been
> proved on the internet. It should use the original location (latitude
> and longitude) and the new location to calculate the angle of slope of
> the wedge and the required rotation from the meridian.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Steve
>
>
> ---
> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
>
>
---
https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial



Re: Adjusting dial to new location

2023-04-05 Thread Michael Ossipoff
[quote]

Assuming that a dial should read only local solar time is a rather limited
view.

[/quote]

…

:-)  What?

…

So, an expressed preference is a “limited view”?  :-)

…

LTST stands for Local-True-Solar-Time.

…

A dial that reads in LTST at your latitude *at your standard
meridian*…instead of *where the sundial is*, makes no sense.

…

It doesn’t make it any easier for viewers to obtain clock-time from the
dial.  That’s because, if the dial reads in your LTST, where the dial is,
then, when making the correction-table, the longitude-correction-constant
can just be added to every EqT entry, resulting in a combined-corrections
table.

…

Then, the user’s task, for converting from dial-time to standard time, is
exactly the same:  Add a correction from a correction-table.

…

In other words, making dial read in LTST at your standard-meridian, instead
of where the dial is, doesn’t make it any easier for the viewer to get
clock-time from the dial.

…

But what it DOES accomplish is that it makes it necessary to apply a
correction in order to get LTST (where you are) from the dial.

…

[quote]

While it might be of interest to the dial purist

[/quote]

…

LTST, Sundial-Time is the time-of-day that standard-time is based on &
approximated.  …but LTST is the real-thing.  A dial that reads in LTST is
telling you the actual time-of-day by the Sun.

…

For appointments, & catching a scheduled bus, train or flight, clock-time
is what matters. For the Sun’s time-of-day, LTST is what it’s about, & what
standard-time is merely a rough approximation of.

…

Yes, other kinds of hours have been used. Temporary Hours must have been
useful if you had some task that needed daylight, &, to evaluate your
progress in that task, it was helpful to know what fraction of the day has
elapsed. You’ve plowed ¾ of the field, & about ¾ of the day has elapsed, &
so you know that your progress is good.

…

Myself, I personally don’t like Temporary Hours, because I don’t want to be
told what fraction of the day has elapsed, because it sounds like negative
news. It seems to me that it emphasizes a negative interpretation of the
time-of-day.  Just my impression.

…

Co-Italian Hours can be very relevant, however, when it tells you how many
hours of daylight remain.  Better yet, I’d prefer being told how many hours
remained until the end of evening Civil-Twilight.

…

My next sundials will give French Hours (equal 15-degree hours) &
Co-Italian Hours (but hours till the end of evening Civil-Twilight instead
of Sunset).

…

Also, my next sundials will have declination-lines for the Solar
ecliptic-months (Aries-Pisces)., marked with the old symbols for those
ecliptic-months.  I’ll also add declination-lines for some days during the
waxing half of the year, when the Solar-Declination has gone significant
fractions of the way from its Winter-Solstice value to its Summer-Solstice
value.   …&, additionally, declination-lines for the ancient Celtic
cross-quarter seasonal-holidays.

…

[quote]

it is not particularly useful to the general population

[/quote]

…

News-flash:  People nowadays take pleasure from, & admire sundials for
reasons other than practical-need.

…

Sundials are liked & looked-at & read because of their beauty & their
natural significance, directly showing nature’s time, the Sun’s own time,
based on where the Sun actually is.   …not clock-time.

…

As I mentioned, LTST is what standard-time is based on & approximates…but
LTST is the real-thing. The genuine natural Solar time-of-day…the kind
expressed in equal 15-degree hours.

…

Clock time can indeed be important, when you have an appointment, meeting
job deadline, or must catch a bus, train or plane, etc.  That just isn’t
part of what people like about sundials.

…

As I’ve mentioned, I used to use & carry a tablet-dial, when reliable
accurate watches were expensive. It had a combined
longitude-correction-constant + Eqt, on the top of the closed tablet. One
single correction-table for the combined correction.

…

[quote]

 and often requires a lot of explanation.

[/quote]

…

How hard is it to tell someone that the Sundial tells the time based on
where the Sun is, as opposed to clock-time, which has less relation to the
Sun’s time.

…

A Sundial that reads directly in the LTST where you are doesn’t need any
correction for that.

…

Getting clock-time from a sundial that reads directly in the LTST at your
standard-meridian needs the EqT correction to be applied, to get
standard-time.   …but also needs a correction to be applied to get your
LTST where the dial is.

…

So which is really simpler?.

…

[quote]

And it makes us seem like an eccentric clique.

[/quote]

…

People don’t come over  & look at a Sundial because they want clock-time
from it. They like its beauty & its Solar nature significance, when it
directly tells them the time based on where the Sun is, Sun’s time,
nature’s time.

…

[quote]

The dial produces a shadow. The hour lines and other indications are