RE: Most Valuable Sundial?
Hey guys, regarding Chinese sun instruments, I was just looking through the catalogue from the exhibition I organized in 1985 in Beitigheim, Germany called 'Zeit und Sonne'(Time and the Sun). Included was a picture and reference to a 50 foot tower in China built in 1279. There was an opening at the top which allowed light through to shine onto a bench which extended 120 feet out from it, I assume to measure the noon hour angle, hence solstices and equinoxes. It's listed as the Tower of Tsou Kung in Kao-tseng, China. The spelling might be a bit off since it's from a German translation. I tried to find reference to it on the internet, but on short notice wasn't able to. Sasch Stephens From: rtbai...@telus.net To: jaub...@cpcug.org; sundial@uni-koeln.de Subject: Re: Most Valuable Sundial? Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 22:08:36 -0700 Hi Jack, I had similar concerns. Hw can you see a shadow on transparent glass? Does it project to the surface? There are two equatorial discs in the Imperial palace in Beijing. I saw one in '92 and have seen photos of the other one. The Chinese were intrigued by western mechanical clocks but other than the instruments at the old observatory set up by Jesuits in the 16th century, there are not many sundials in China and the far east. Time was not of the essence long ago and far away. I hope someone can prove me wrong. Regards, Roger ps. I was interested to see they had armillary spheres in China many centuries before the Jesuits arrived. Perhaps the Silk Road went both ways. From: Jack Aubert Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 11:48 AM To: 'Sundial List' Subject: RE: Most Valuable Sundial? Value, schmalue. But it appears to be an interesting object, particularly if it really is an accurate replica of something from the 17th century. Are there more photos of it and an explanation of how it works? At first glance it looks like a skaphe dial made to be “transparent” by use of a wire grid. How is it read? By staring upward? It would be hard to make out the shadow. Or do shadows project down onto the ground? I have not seen very much about sundials from the Far East, if it is still OK to call it that. The only one I can remember offhand is an equatorial dial at the Imperial Palace in Beijing and I don’t know how old that it is. Jack From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of Roger Bailey Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 11:47 PM To: Sundial List Subject: Most Valuable Sundial? I happened to come across this obscure link to the Guinness Book of Records for the "most valuable sundial". http://community.guinnessworldrecords.com/_Most-valuable-sundial/blog/1458785/7691.html Perhaps, but define value. Is it cost? tons of bronze and gold plating, man hour of construction? I think not. This sundial is a replica. Perhaps the original was much more valuable, historically, culturally, scientifically. Value is not the cost to reproduce. I have designed a sundial to reproduce at a different location the famous sundial designed by Ibn Al Shatir in Damascus in 1371, a complex sundial, the first sundial with a polar gnomon. Mine is a fine sundial but the original is valuable. Are there other nominations for the "most valuable sundial". Regards, Roger Bailey "Life's but a Walking Shadow." --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Most Valuable Sundial?
Hi Jack, I had similar concerns. Hw can you see a shadow on transparent glass? Does it project to the surface? There are two equatorial discs in the Imperial palace in Beijing. I saw one in '92 and have seen photos of the other one. The Chinese were intrigued by western mechanical clocks but other than the instruments at the old observatory set up by Jesuits in the 16th century, there are not many sundials in China and the far east. Time was not of the essence long ago and far away. I hope someone can prove me wrong. Regards, Roger ps. I was interested to see they had armillary spheres in China many centuries before the Jesuits arrived. Perhaps the Silk Road went both ways. From: Jack Aubert Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 11:48 AM To: 'Sundial List' Subject: RE: Most Valuable Sundial? Value, schmalue. But it appears to be an interesting object, particularly if it really is an accurate replica of something from the 17th century. Are there more photos of it and an explanation of how it works? At first glance it looks like a skaphe dial made to be "transparent" by use of a wire grid. How is it read? By staring upward? It would be hard to make out the shadow. Or do shadows project down onto the ground? I have not seen very much about sundials from the Far East, if it is still OK to call it that. The only one I can remember offhand is an equatorial dial at the Imperial Palace in Beijing and I don't know how old that it is. Jack From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of Roger Bailey Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 11:47 PM To: Sundial List Subject: Most Valuable Sundial? I happened to come across this obscure link to the Guinness Book of Records for the "most valuable sundial". http://community.guinnessworldrecords.com/_Most-valuable-sundial/blog/1458785/7691.html Perhaps, but define value. Is it cost? tons of bronze and gold plating, man hour of construction? I think not. This sundial is a replica. Perhaps the original was much more valuable, historically, culturally, scientifically. Value is not the cost to reproduce. I have designed a sundial to reproduce at a different location the famous sundial designed by Ibn Al Shatir in Damascus in 1371, a complex sundial, the first sundial with a polar gnomon. Mine is a fine sundial but the original is valuable. Are there other nominations for the "most valuable sundial". Regards, Roger Bailey "Life's but a Walking Shadow." --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Most Valuable Sundial?
Dear John, Yes, I like your candidates... > The Washington Monument > Stonehenge > The Earth! How about Jupiter and its four principal moons? You can tell a lot from the various ways they can go into eclipse. Oh, and if you want an expensive man-made sundial, how about the Martian sundial by Bill Nye and Woody Sullivan? That must count as pretty expensive if you take shipping costs into account :-) Frank --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: Most Valuable Sundial?
mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of Roger Bailey Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 8:47 PM To: Sundial List Subject: Most Valuable Sundial? I happened to come across this obscure link to the Guinness Book of Records for the "most valuable sundial". http://community.guinnessworldrecords.com/_Most-valuable-sundial/blog/145878 5/7691.html Perhaps, but define value. Is it cost? tons of bronze and gold plating, man hour of construction? I think not. This sundial is a replica. Perhaps the original was much more valuable, historically, culturally, scientifically. Value is not the cost to reproduce. I have designed a sundial to reproduce at a different location the famous sundial designed by Ibn Al Shatir in Damascus in 1371, a complex sundial, the first sundial with a polar gnomon. Mine is a fine sundial but the original is valuable. Are there other nominations for the "most valuable sundial". Regards, Roger Bailey "Life's but a Walking Shadow." --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: Most Valuable Sundial?
Value, schmalue. But it appears to be an interesting object, particularly if it really is an accurate replica of something from the 17th century. Are there more photos of it and an explanation of how it works? At first glance it looks like a skaphe dial made to be "transparent" by use of a wire grid. How is it read? By staring upward? It would be hard to make out the shadow. Or do shadows project down onto the ground? I have not seen very much about sundials from the Far East, if it is still OK to call it that. The only one I can remember offhand is an equatorial dial at the Imperial Palace in Beijing and I don't know how old that it is. Jack From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of Roger Bailey Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 11:47 PM To: Sundial List Subject: Most Valuable Sundial? I happened to come across this obscure link to the Guinness Book of Records for the "most valuable sundial". http://community.guinnessworldrecords.com/_Most-valuable-sundial/blog/145878 5/7691.html Perhaps, but define value. Is it cost? tons of bronze and gold plating, man hour of construction? I think not. This sundial is a replica. Perhaps the original was much more valuable, historically, culturally, scientifically. Value is not the cost to reproduce. I have designed a sundial to reproduce at a different location the famous sundial designed by Ibn Al Shatir in Damascus in 1371, a complex sundial, the first sundial with a polar gnomon. Mine is a fine sundial but the original is valuable. Are there other nominations for the "most valuable sundial". Regards, Roger Bailey "Life's but a Walking Shadow." --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: Most Valuable Sundial?
Exactly. This article confuses "valuable" with "expensive"! Make a garden non-dial of a carved solid diamond. Is it valuable? Or just ostentatiously costly. _ From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of Roger Bailey Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 8:47 PM To: Sundial List Subject: Most Valuable Sundial? I happened to come across this obscure link to the Guinness Book of Records for the "most valuable sundial". http://community.guinnessworldrecords.com/_Most-valuable-sundial/blog/145878 5/7691.html Perhaps, but define value. Is it cost? tons of bronze and gold plating, man hour of construction? I think not. This sundial is a replica. Perhaps the original was much more valuable, historically, culturally, scientifically. Value is not the cost to reproduce. I have designed a sundial to reproduce at a different location the famous sundial designed by Ibn Al Shatir in Damascus in 1371, a complex sundial, the first sundial with a polar gnomon. Mine is a fine sundial but the original is valuable. Are there other nominations for the "most valuable sundial". Regards, Roger Bailey "Life's but a Walking Shadow." --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
