[freenet-support] Re: Secure NIMs?
Someone wrote: Jano schrieb: Freemail is an idea I like a lot but at least my windows experience has been... lacking. The alpha 20 has been there for ages... is it still under development? Is someone using it on stable? I tried to use it on stable, but it doesn't work that good. Almost all of the times it tries to insert a message an gets a RNF it doesn't remember the slot it used to insert. So after some hours the same message got inserted in multiple slots. To make it worse, the message somehow got through and got confirmed by the receiver, but freemail didn't get it right and was still trying to insert the message. After an manual count I saw that the one message I did send was inserted into about 80 receiver slots and there was no way to tell freemail to stop inserting it again and again into new slots. Additionally the freemail process stalled totally after some hours using all available CPU which means I had to run it on a very low priority or it would starve my freenet node to death. All this is with the latest windows version of freemail, don't know if the linux version runs better. My conclusion about it: nice idea but far from beeing usable at the moment. I had forgot about the 100% CPU issue, but it happened to me too. In my case the message wasn't being inserted multiple times, but was being tried to be inserted into an used slot, and the collisions triggered some exception which prevented freemail from any further normal operation. Nonetheless, I managed to exchange several messages between two test identities. I hope the project will eventually continue. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] Interesting news posting in alt.internet.p2p
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=freetellahl=enlr=ie=UTF- 8c2coff=1safe=offselm=Xns951A1E8DA9B51neo1061hotmailcom%4066.185.95 .104rnum=2 It's a very, very, very bloody long posting, and the really relevant- to-you stuff is only near the bottom, but there's a proposal for a file-sharing-and-searching-over-Freenet system, freetella, basically gnutella + freenet as I understand it. The reputation management stuff is interesting (but full of *#! math!) in particular, as well as the suggestion that Frost could form part of the back end of this thing too. The reputation management thing may be more interesting than Freetella proper, though, because it seems to offer what are described as, and I can't disprove it, foolproof ways to a) make any indexing system based on volunteer contributions to an index difficult to spam or flood or otherwise pollute based on reputation management -- I especially like the notion of contributer identities being in the key strings for their submissions so if they wind up in really bad repute clients can simply not retrieve such keys at all, thus allowing pollution to wither and die instead of persisting, but being ignored, but continuing to burden clients making sheer volume denial of service attacks of such publicly- annotatable indices possible. Such DoS tricks will run up against a brick wall of clients not retrieving or propagating the pollution at all, limiting the damage to one node and its immediate environs. It's like they can dump toxic waste but it won't get into the groundwater. The math stuff has to do with preventing a spammer cheating the reputation management system by making multiple IDs that all vote each other up. It's tricky (Markov chains, what the [EMAIL PROTECTED] are Markov chains for Pete's sake?) and something is an exercise left to the reader but he (she?) seems to have found a way to make self-votes, even indirect ones, cancel out somehow. Also, there's no central stuff mentioned, which would have cast immediate doubt on the whole thing. No central reputation management, the reputation management reputation manages its own internal votes as well as whatever larger purpose it serves, no centralized anything as near as I can tell. No vulnerabilities. No dependence on non-Freenet services at all that I can see, aside from the inevitable loopback spaghetti networking internal to the node machines involved in everything Freenet, the basic internet protocols themselves, and DNS. Even that might be jettisoned when static IPs are used throughout (IPv6 might make dynamic IPs a bad memory. In a pig's eye.) There's some sort of wacko anti-RIAA stuff in the article too, including an I don't hate the RIAA, they're just a favorite whipping boy sort of disclaimer right after a lengthy discussion of how to completely thwart the RIAA *without* freenet or heavy use of encryption. Whether we *should* thwart the RIAA is left as an exercise for the reader's consicence, I guess. The clever scheme involves breaking bootleg files up into chunks to small they are either unintelligible in isolation or fall under fair use, which need not even be encrypted though he seems to recommend some crypto, and are combined into the complete file (and if necessary decrypted) by someone who wants the file. The trick is for no host to offer more than one fragment so there's nothing but an unintelligible, suggestively named (author's own words more or less) or a fair-use quotation being shared, i.e. no probable cause for searching your cpu and finding the rest of the file or even supposing you knew what others were doing with the file. I'm not totally sure they wouldn't find some way to legislate such a thing out of the loophole described, though. In fact, they probably would. There's also some stuff about ISPs relaxing AUPs, freedom of speech, world peace, and so on. Says he's a fellow canadian -- probably a canuck that voted NDP on Monday and commutes regularly to an institute of higher learning then. And before that a long long list of suggestions for improving gnutella most of them seriously technical. I think he also took potshots at bill gates, shareaza, and some other prominent targets besides the RIAA. Oh, and the FBI and other law enforcement agencies of questionable trustworthiness. (Why not mention CSIS?) Oh and he dares them to prosecute him under the DMCA for posting it. Then he thumbs his nose at the yankee gestapo and that's where he announces his canadianness. Hope he hasn't any travel plans to like Florida or Hawaii in the near future then. :) Anyway the freenet-related stuff at the bottom looks interesting. I think the reputation stuff may be quite generalizable for a lot of other stuff. There's occasionally talk of how to influence unwanted stuff into expiring from the freenet here -- reputation management that blacklists keys (and bad blacklisters) in principle lets one stop their machine ever retrieving
Re: [freenet-support] RE: trouble getting any information
Many dialup connections are regularly reset. They probably would have locked his account if he had gone over bandwidth or connection time. Getting disconnected is just a fact of life. ~Paul On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 16:08:53 +0100, Toad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have no idea WHY it lost the connection to the ISP? Did they contact you to complain about bandwidth usage or anything? How do you connect to the internet? Has that changed recently? On Wed, Jun 30, 2004 at 06:38:37PM -0400, Nicholas Sturm wrote: Restarted freenet last night. Slow to make contacts but by an hour later 62 were open and freenet seemed to be behaving nicely together with SETI running. CPU at 100% but behavior was what I now call normal. At about noon today I checked and data transferred was many megs and messages were at about 15,000 on two most active connections. Checked mail and came back about an hour later to find that SETI had transmitted results and was not maximized any longer. Then I realized that system seemed inactive. ISP had closed connection and I had some difficulty getting anything to respond. Finally after right click on rabbit in tray, I was able to open popup window and stopped freenet. Few things started to show apparent activity and I could then maximize SETI and it had completed about 6% of a job after sending and bringing down a new job. I then reconnected and restarted freenet and function seemed to return. I checked the log and it showed a very long segment of failures. (Log was at about 2.5 megs.) Errors continued abundantly as I expected since contact had been lost from other nodes for some time. Shut down. (To do other work.) About three hours later I tried to restart, but experience little success. Log hung when I tried to work back through the log (problem here?). Finally shut down OS and restarted. The apparent hang from shut down of ISP connection I had not observed before (not to say that I actually know it never did). Is this common? Will freenet do this when only it is producing high CPU usage or could it be because two programs were trying to work at maximum level (SETI freenet)? Should freenet not detect loss of internet connection and not go blindly on with unsuccessful high usage? I would think that when finally operating this should not be allowed to happen as ISP closure would certainly not be uncommon with large numbers of nodes running (even if it only happens with multiple high demands on CPU). Recently checked thread usage and seems seldom to go beyond 700 even when system very busy. Oh, 2KWin and Sun Java (recent). 256 memory. Dial up connection. ~18.6 hard drives capacity each of two(C: pretty high, about 1.5 gig open, D: with about 4-5 gig open). What else important? Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc - 1K noname - 1K Download ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] RE: trouble getting any information
Toad wrote: You have no idea WHY it lost the connection to the ISP? Did they contact you to complain about bandwidth usage or anything? How do you connect to the internet? Has that changed recently? On Wed, Jun 30, 2004 at 06:38:37PM -0400, Nicholas Sturm wrote: Restarted freenet last night. Slow to make contacts but by an hour later 62 were open and freenet seemed to be behaving nicely together with SETI running. CPU at 100% but behavior was what I now call normal. At about noon today I checked and data transferred was many megs and messages were at about 15,000 on two most active connections. Checked mail and came back about an hour later to find that SETI had transmitted results and was not maximized any longer. Then I realized that system seemed inactive. ISP had closed connection and I had some difficulty getting anything to respond. Finally after right click on rabbit in tray, I was able to open popup window and stopped freenet. Few things started to show apparent activity and I could then maximize SETI and it had completed about 6% of a job after sending and bringing down a new job. I then reconnected and restarted freenet and function seemed to return. I checked the log and it showed a very long segment of failures. (Log was at about 2.5 megs.) Errors continued abundantly as I expected since contact had been lost from other nodes for some time. Shut down. (To do other work.) About three hours later I tried to restart, but experience little success. Log hung when I tried to work back through the log (problem here?). Finally shut down OS and restarted. The apparent hang from shut down of ISP connection I had not observed before (not to say that I actually know it never did). Is this common? Will freenet do this when only it is producing high CPU usage or could it be because two programs were trying to work at maximum level (SETI freenet)? Should freenet not detect loss of internet connection and not go blindly on with unsuccessful high usage? I would think that when finally operating this should not be allowed to happen as ISP closure would certainly not be uncommon with large numbers of nodes running (even if it only happens with multiple high demands on CPU). Recently checked thread usage and seems seldom to go beyond 700 even when system very busy. Oh, 2KWin and Sun Java (recent). 256 memory. Dial up connection. ~18.6 hard drives capacity each of two(C: pretty high, about 1.5 gig open, D: with about 4-5 gig open). What else important? Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Being closed out variest. Often happens between 11 pm and 2 am and more commonly recently. No obvious reason for the closings, but I'm using Norton to maintain connection unless they close it. I don't expect a meaningful explanation of why it is closed. When you are third in number of customers service is similar to when you are # 1 or #2. Who cares about loosing a few? Customer service with problems is seldom very useful. Scam filter went crazy two night ago. Compacting file when requested blocked mail system inbound. I'm currently using a different user acct on 2KWin as all the browsers have gone flaky on the one I had previously used. I'm now trying out Thunderbird Firefox which seem to work, but can't use Mr. Sid graphics except with E.I. or perhaps Netscape which is needed for Scans of Federal Census Page. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] RE: trouble getting any information
On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 10:56:13AM -0400, Paul wrote: Many dialup connections are regularly reset. They probably would have locked his account if he had gone over bandwidth or connection time. Getting disconnected is just a fact of life. Okay so it's not caused by Freenet? Good. ~Paul On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 16:08:53 +0100, Toad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have no idea WHY it lost the connection to the ISP? Did they contact you to complain about bandwidth usage or anything? How do you connect to the internet? Has that changed recently? On Wed, Jun 30, 2004 at 06:38:37PM -0400, Nicholas Sturm wrote: Restarted freenet last night. Slow to make contacts but by an hour later 62 were open and freenet seemed to be behaving nicely together with SETI running. CPU at 100% but behavior was what I now call normal. At about noon today I checked and data transferred was many megs and messages were at about 15,000 on two most active connections. Checked mail and came back about an hour later to find that SETI had transmitted results and was not maximized any longer. Then I realized that system seemed inactive. ISP had closed connection and I had some difficulty getting anything to respond. Finally after right click on rabbit in tray, I was able to open popup window and stopped freenet. Few things started to show apparent activity and I could then maximize SETI and it had completed about 6% of a job after sending and bringing down a new job. I then reconnected and restarted freenet and function seemed to return. I checked the log and it showed a very long segment of failures. (Log was at about 2.5 megs.) Errors continued abundantly as I expected since contact had been lost from other nodes for some time. Shut down. (To do other work.) About three hours later I tried to restart, but experience little success. Log hung when I tried to work back through the log (problem here?). Finally shut down OS and restarted. The apparent hang from shut down of ISP connection I had not observed before (not to say that I actually know it never did). Is this common? Will freenet do this when only it is producing high CPU usage or could it be because two programs were trying to work at maximum level (SETI freenet)? Should freenet not detect loss of internet connection and not go blindly on with unsuccessful high usage? I would think that when finally operating this should not be allowed to happen as ISP closure would certainly not be uncommon with large numbers of nodes running (even if it only happens with multiple high demands on CPU). Recently checked thread usage and seems seldom to go beyond 700 even when system very busy. Oh, 2KWin and Sun Java (recent). 256 memory. Dial up connection. ~18.6 hard drives capacity each of two(C: pretty high, about 1.5 gig open, D: with about 4-5 gig open). What else important? Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc - 1K noname - 1K Download ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Difference between Connection Attempts and Requests.
On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 02:22:39AM +0100, Weiliang Zhang wrote: What are the difference between these two set of data? http://127.0.0.1:/servlet/nodestatus/inboundContacts.txt http://127.0.0.1:/servlet/nodestatus/inboundRequests.txt Inbound contact attempts is different from inbound requests?? They count different things. The former counts connections. The latter counts requests. -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] Interesting news posting in alt.internet.p2p
On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 10:27:31AM -0400, Paul Derbyshire wrote: Anyway the freenet-related stuff at the bottom looks interesting. I think the reputation stuff may be quite generalizable for a lot of other stuff. There's occasionally talk of how to influence unwanted stuff into expiring from the freenet here -- reputation management that blacklists keys (and bad blacklisters) in principle lets one stop their machine ever retrieving keys that are on a blacklist for something they don't want to make spread through freenet, e.g. child pornography. A popular blacklist could indeed depress the spread of a blacklisted file, perhaps to the point it can't be found in any data store but that of the one loser who keeps reinserting the thing. The fundamental problem with blacklists/whitelists is that if nodes only pass on keys supported by a given whitelist, or by any of a given set of whitelists, etc, then node operators will become legally liable for their choice of whitelist. If their whitelist includes any interesting content e.g. the diebold or Co$ files, then they will be prosecuted. -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] blacklist whitelist
This talk of blacklisting makes me want to puke. Let's just go back to the censored internet. Man, we're getting our own little versions of Big Brother on here. If you don't want to look at it, don't look at it, or get off of Freenet. I doubt that Ian would agree with all this talk of censorship(euphemized as blacklisting). So, we don't like Janet Jackson's breast nor Howard Stern's mouth. Don't look. Don't listen. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] RE: trouble getting any information
Toad wrote: On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 10:56:13AM -0400, Paul wrote: Many dialup connections are regularly reset. They probably would have locked his account if he had gone over bandwidth or connection time. Getting disconnected is just a fact of life. Okay so it's not caused by Freenet? Good. ~Paul On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 16:08:53 +0100, Toad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have no idea WHY it lost the connection to the ISP? Did they contact you to complain about bandwidth usage or anything? How do you connect to the internet? Has that changed recently? On Wed, Jun 30, 2004 at 06:38:37PM -0400, Nicholas Sturm wrote: Restarted freenet last night. Slow to make contacts but by an hour later 62 were open and freenet seemed to be behaving nicely together with SETI running. CPU at 100% but behavior was what I now call "normal." At about noon today I checked and data transferred was many megs and messages were at about 15,000 on two most active connections. Checked mail and came back about an hour later to find that SETI had transmitted results and was "not" maximized any longer. Then I realized that system seemed inactive. ISP had closed connection and I had some difficulty getting anything to respond. Finally after right click on rabbit in tray, I was able to open popup window and stopped freenet. Few things started to show apparent activity and I could then maximize SETI and it had completed about 6% of a job after sending and bringing down a new job. I then reconnected and restarted freenet and function seemed to return. I checked the log and it showed a very long segment of failures. (Log was at about 2.5 megs.) Errors continued abundantly as I expected since contact had been lost from other nodes for some time. Shut down. (To do other work.) About three hours later I tried to restart, but experience little success. Log hung when I tried to work back through the log (problem here?). Finally shut down OS and restarted. The apparent hang from shut down of ISP connection I had not observed before (not to say that I actually know it never did). Is this common? Will freenet do this when only it is producing high CPU usage or could it be because two programs were trying to work at maximum level (SETI freenet)? Should freenet not detect loss of internet connection and not go blindly on with unsuccessful high usage? I would think that when finally operating this should not be allowed to happen as ISP closure would certainly not be uncommon with large numbers of nodes running (even if it only happens with multiple high demands on CPU). Recently checked thread usage and seems seldom to go beyond 700 even when system very busy. Oh, 2KWin and Sun Java (recent). 256 memory. Dial up connection. ~18.6 hard drives capacity each of two(C: pretty high, about 1.5 gig open, D: with about 4-5 gig open). What else important? Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc - 1K noname - 1K Download ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Apart from describing the behavior, the point I was trying to make was that if this happens when the system is in general operation, many may be affected by freezing of the system -- particularly if ISPs become even more accustomed to doing it -- because those who have a frozen system every morning will likely be inclined not to support nodes except perhaps in the transient state. And then integration into the system for access to information will be unlikely to be very popular. IF the node freed itself when there is no active Internet link, i.e., when into a paused state to avoid freezing, it might remain more useful as a communication medium. Even better perhaps would be a timed pause with a reconnection after a moderate pause period -- 1 minute, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, or 30 minutes, say. ? It does seem like a potential problem. N. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at
Re: [freenet-support] blacklist whitelist
On 2 Jul 2004 at 11:54, miguel wrote: This talk of blacklisting makes me want to puke. Let's just go back to the censored internet. Man, we're getting our own little versions of Big Brother on here. If you don't want to look at it, don't look at it, or get off of Freenet. I doubt that Ian would agree with all this talk of censorship(euphemized as blacklisting). So, we don't like Janet Jackson's breast nor Howard Stern's mouth. Don't look. Don't listen. Sigh, another misunderstanding. There's no censorship involved here except individuals choosing not to retrieve keys based on their being known to be the keys of content of a kind they personally don't like. By not retrieving the keys they save bandwidth and also can avoid encouraging the spread of content they don't approve of. But their node will not treat the keys any differently, only the frontend software they are using to retrieve and view freesites, and also there would be no centralised control involved that could be abused. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
