[freenet-support] Question regarding legal case

[Lance Hathaway]

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Re: [freenet-support] Question regarding legal case

[postmaster]

Hayley Rosenblum:
> Hello,
> I am a law intern at Rosenblum, Schwartz, Rogers, & Glass, P.C. in St.
> Louis, MO. As a criminal defense firm, we have recently been hired for a
> Possession of Child Pornography case. According to the police report , a
> special investigator began running copies of Freenet that had been modified
> for law enforcement to log the IP address, key, and date, and time of
> requests that were sent to these law enforcement Freenet nodes which were
> then compared to keys of known child pornography. The special investigator
> observed an IP address routing/and or requesting suspected child
> pornography file blocks. The special investigation noted that the number
> and timing of the request was significant enough to indicate that the IP
> address was the apparent original requester of the file.

These two files may be of assistance [0][1], and I believe the developer
volunteer by the name of ArneBab on FMS has posted a correction to the
math used by LEA in regards to their black ice project [2]. Maybe try
contacting them.

> 
> We have doubts about the legitimacy of this based off some brief research
> we have done on Freeness and how it works. Is there anyone I could contact
> to discuss having a Freenet employee/specialist to review the search
> warrant and police report and/or potentially hire as an expert witness. If
> so, how much would you charge for that?
> 

Due to Freenet being volunteer run we do not have any employees
currently, you can maybe contact some of the core developers and see if
they will be willing to do the work required to be an expert witness. I
assume most do not live near the court house so they might ask for
accommodations and financial compensation for the time they use not
working their normal jobs. Outside of that I assume you can always
donate to the Freenet project so we can hire an employee who then can be
tasked with helping you.

Clearnet Tor and Freenet links

[0] Clearnet
https://transfer.sh/WWpvv/freenet-investigations-white-paper-black-ice-090413-.pdf

[0] Tor link
http://jxm5d6emw5rknovg.onion/WWpvv/freenet-investigations-white-paper-black-ice-090413-.pdf

[0] Frennet
http://127.0.0.1:/CHK@NNYanp2t1gz12R12bg7Yct-SYOPTYvW2PNwids4vWz4,iqKClogwL6uLAFdxB6uxQQnA2ZNeyJ3hXW2sIJmx9aE,AAMC--8/Freenet%20Investigations%20White%20Paper%20-Black%20Ice%20%20%28090413%29.pdf

[1] Tor Link
http://jxm5d6emw5rknovg.onion/rzP7z/freenet-investigations-ppt.pdf

[1] Clearnet
https://transfer.sh/rzP7z/freenet-investigations-ppt.pdf

[1] Freenet
http://127.0.0.1:/CHK@a~ELucMCX0l9ZsnaT65b3U4wHFnQEAMTJvtNcPBPpi0,zldlhl2CRhOgrK6dQP1dNWtwMlNrchlb6Oc-Kucpc04,AAMC--8/Freenet_Investigations_PPT.pdf

[2] Clearnet
http://pastie.org/private/opjj1qtbbhkbkwif5mjhq

[2] Freenet
http://127.0.0.1:/SSK%40%2DjtTqLLTLaRaqqNx4Jq9Kxw5ejhGDxkeCdlDN9ckH1w%2Cd9Vg7c6m3QnsidlVyEMkxJB5e4XSrx8PZ4ahzY0nwoQ%2CAQACAAE/fms%7C2016%2D04%2D13%7CMessage%2D0?type=text/plain
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Re: [freenet-support] Question regarding legal case

[Eric Tully]

 
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016, at 03:03 PM, Steve Dougherty wrote:
>
> Now addressing others on the list: I note an ethical dilemma here. It
> may well be that the accused is guilty of the things they are accused
> of, and invalidating this presumably-mistaken search warrant would
> allow them to go free. That said, do we want to resist the application
> of flawed statistics in prosecuting Freenet users? I'm leaning toward
> probably. Selectively assisting in fighting search warrants that seem
> invalid also seems unethical. Are we obligated to help?
>
 
 
This is a great ethical question and it's been answered a million times
in courts.
 
There is a reason you hear about bad guys going free on "technicalities"
and it's not that the system is broken or corrupt.  The system is
designed with an important safeguard:   It's better for a HUNDRED guilty
people to go free than for ONE innocent person to go to jail.
 
If the prosecutors are using flawed statistics or a misunderstanding of
Freenet to send GUILTY people to jail,  then there is going to come a
time when they use those same flaws to send an INNOCENT person to jail.
 
If you provide testimony that truthfully describes how Freenet works and
that sets a guilty person free,  that is not your fault.  (Likewise,  if
cops were using Tarot cards or a Magic 8-ball to "prove" people were
guilty, and someone provided the truth about Tarot cards and Magic 8-
ball's, and that causes a guilty person to go free,  consider it a good
thing that the system has been FIXED and good innocent people aren't
wrongly going to jail.)
 
Those "technicalities" that the cops in TV shows seem to hate so much
are carefully designed protections to make sure that the system errs on
the side of protecting the innocent.
 
You will sleep better at night knowing that you told the truth.
Consider the alternative:   If you are ONLY going to provide testimony
in cases where the defendant is innocent,  then you're going to have to
determine who's guilty and innocent.  [And if you can do that, we don't
really need courts anymore, we can all just Ask Steve.]  If you withhold
testimony because the guy is a scumbag and he goes to jail on flawed
statistics, and then you find out years later that he was innocent,  you
are going to feel a lot worse than if you found out that a guilty guy
went free.
 
Just tell the truth about how your software works.  Whatever happens
after that is at least done with everyone's eyes open instead of closed.
 
But fucking charge for it.  $300 an hour seems fair.  FOSS authors have
a right to get paid for their time, knowledge, and expertise.  If a
court needs to understand how your software works,  you already did the
world a favor by WRITING the software,  you're not obligated to ALSO
teach everyone how to use it, teach them how to read code or to teach
them statistics that they should have learned in high school.  Be sure
you get WELL paid for your time.
 
The EFF will back me up on everything I'm saying.  This isn't about
twisting my mustache with an evil laugh because I've figured out how to
get away with being a bad guy.  This is about freedom to use software
to be anonymous - the crypto community has been trying for decades to
get people to understand that good and bad people EACH have uses for
tools like encryption, hammers, guns, and Freenet.  Encryption and
Anonymity doesn't mean your probably guilty.  The Federalist Papers,
for example, were published anonymously and provided the ideas that
eventually grew into the US Constitution.  You are on solid ethical and
moral ground - and in good company - by telling the truth about how
your software works.
 
 
- Eric
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Re: [freenet-support] Question regarding legal case

[Bert Massop]

Op 25 jul. 2016 22:03 schreef "Steve Dougherty" :

> Now addressing others on the list: I note an ethical dilemma here. It may
well be that the accused is guilty of the things they are accused of, and
invalidating this presumably-mistaken search warrant would allow them to go
free. That said, do we want to resist the application of flawed statistics
in prosecuting Freenet users? I'm leaning toward probably. Selectively
assisting in fighting search warrants that seem invalid also seems
unethical. Are we obligated to help?
>

I do think that at least morally, we are obligated to help in reviewing the
technical legitimacy of relevant evidence against a user of Freenet.

For myself I'd rather ignore what the bigger picture is in this case, but
focus on the technicalities instead (such as possibly a case of a law
enforcement agency misusing statistics on Freenet against one of the
software's users).

>From what I read from Hayley's message, this is exactly what has been
requested so far.

I am willing to assist any other volunteer in reviewing said
technicalities, but I would not feel comfortable doing that on my own (for
I am just another volunteer who does not necessarily know about every
single aspect of Freenet).

>
> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 2:33 PM Hayley Rosenblum  wrote:
>> We have doubts about the legitimacy of this based off some brief
research we have done on Freeness and how it works. Is there anyone I could
contact to discuss having a Freenet employee/specialist to review the
search warrant and police report and/or potentially hire as an expert
witness. If so, how much would you charge for that?
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Re: [freenet-support] Question regarding legal case

[Steve Dougherty]

Hi Hayley,

To make sure it's clear, this is a publicly visible mailing list.

I assume you've seen the news post about flawed surveillance techniques?
https://freenetproject.org/news.html#20160526-htl18attack It goes over our
understanding of attacks used by law enforcement and why they appear to be
heavily fundamentally flawed. If we can help elaborate on parts of it
please let us know. The attacks we are aware of included information about
how far away the request probably originated; (Hops To Live - HTL) you
didn't mention that, and without it the attack is even less accurate than
the effectively entirely inaccurate thing it already is.

As a non-profit organization running an open source project, we don't
currently have employees, hence the lack of a phone number. You may be able
to find someone in the community willing to participate; if this is the
case I think it is we've been following it with interest for a while now.
Could you please elaborate on what is involved in reviewing the search
warrant, reviewing the police report, or being an expert witness? Would
this be an attempt to invalidate the search and suppress evidence acquired
with it?

Now addressing others on the list: I note an ethical dilemma here. It may
well be that the accused is guilty of the things they are accused of, and
invalidating this presumably-mistaken search warrant would allow them to go
free. That said, do we want to resist the application of flawed statistics
in prosecuting Freenet users? I'm leaning toward probably. Selectively
assisting in fighting search warrants that seem invalid also seems
unethical. Are we obligated to help?

- Steve

On Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 2:33 PM Hayley Rosenblum  wrote:

> Hello,
> I am a law intern at Rosenblum, Schwartz, Rogers, & Glass, P.C. in St.
> Louis, MO. As a criminal defense firm, we have recently been hired for a
> Possession of Child Pornography case. According to the police report , a
> special investigator began running copies of Freenet that had been modified
> for law enforcement to log the IP address, key, and date, and time of
> requests that were sent to these law enforcement Freenet nodes which were
> then compared to keys of known child pornography. The special investigator
> observed an IP address routing/and or requesting suspected child
> pornography file blocks. The special investigation noted that the number
> and timing of the request was significant enough to indicate that the IP
> address was the apparent original requester of the file.
>
> We have doubts about the legitimacy of this based off some brief research
> we have done on Freeness and how it works. Is there anyone I could contact
> to discuss having a Freenet employee/specialist to review the search
> warrant and police report and/or potentially hire as an expert witness. If
> so, how much would you charge for that?
>
> Any information or further contacts would be great. I didn’t see a phone
> number on the website, so I figured i’d start with an email!
>
> Thank you,
>
> Hayley Rosenblum
> Law Intern
> Rosenblum, Schwartz, Rogers, & Glass P.C.
> rsrglaw.com
> hrose...@slu.edu
> office: 314-862-4332
> ___
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