Re: Andriod/Koolu (Was: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12)
I think it was v5, the new version can be found here: http://freerunner.android.koolu.com/release-files They just released Beta1 last night. I'm installing it still, but should have it soon to play with. :) It looks like the kernel is a larger andy-tracking version, so Qi may be needed for this release. The real surprise for me was the front page that states Koolu's image of Android will be installed at Openmoko Factory, selling the device (implied as the GTA02) for the low price of $349. Openmoko Factory? Or FIC? I thought they were separate entities... Ian Darwin i...@darwinsys.com wrote: = Is that the one labeled v5 on the download sites? ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
To Craig and other (fellow) whiners: Try Android. You'll need to update your uboot environment to allow for a bigger kernel, but go here: http://panicking.kicks-ass.org/download/ And check out: http://panicking.kicks-ass.org/blog/ It's not quite production ready yet (in fact it has some showstoppers for everyday use like refusing to boot after some as-yet unidentified config changes, only registering with GSM one boot in two, suspend.. some of which may have been fixed in yesterday's image which I've not tried yet) but... GPS just works, phone calls just work, SMS just works, Wifi works (with a manual directory creation step), the keyboard is good, the interface is pretty, well designed and responsive, the web-browser works. I set up the email app to use my home IMAP server in just a few minutes... GPRS is apparently a WIP, though some success is reported. As I say, not quite there yet, but when a couple more issues around gluing the hardware, kernel and userspace together get sorted out, I think it's going to be the quickest and easiest way to get a fully functioning phone/internet device/GPS out of the Freerunner. I wish I didn't have to say that, but experience with the 2008.x series of software (and two months of attempting to use it as a main phone) left me similarly frustrated. I nearly threw the phone out of the window on several occasions. Just trying to answer a call was a supremely vexatious experience. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Experiences-with-GTA02-and-OM2008.12-%28was-part-of-the-%22Brick%22-thread%29-tp2172759p2186261.html Sent from the Openmoko Support mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
Funny you mention that... it's the last on my list, since I've tried most of the others but this one has failed to boot after several attempts. I got a new uSD card just for this setup to see if thats what's preventing the boot. So far the only one that works with calls and SMS well is QT, but it crashes regularly when I'm at work. Works fine for hours, but within minutes of entering my work place the phone's GUI goes away and I get some random characters on the screen. I can't even SSH in after that. Gothnet openm...@nastylittlehorse.net wrote: = To Craig and other (fellow) whiners: Try Android. You'll need to update your uboot environment to allow for a bigger kernel, but go here: http://panicking.kicks-ass.org/download/ And check out: http://panicking.kicks-ass.org/blog/ It's not quite production ready yet (in fact it has some showstoppers for everyday use like refusing to boot after some as-yet unidentified config changes, only registering with GSM one boot in two, suspend.. some of which may have been fixed in yesterday's image which I've not tried yet) but... GPS just works, phone calls just work, SMS just works, Wifi works (with a manual directory creation step), the keyboard is good, the interface is pretty, well designed and responsive, the web-browser works. I set up the email app to use my home IMAP server in just a few minutes... GPRS is apparently a WIP, though some success is reported. As I say, not quite there yet, but when a couple more issues around gluing the hardware, kernel and userspace together get sorted out, I think it's going to be the quickest and easiest way to get a fully functioning phone/internet device/GPS out of the Freerunner. I wish I didn't have to say that, but experience with the 2008.x series of software (and two months of attempting to use it as a main phone) left me similarly frustrated. I nearly threw the phone out of the window on several occasions. Just trying to answer a call was a supremely vexatious experience. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Experiences-with-GTA02-and-OM2008.12-%28was-part-of-the-%22Brick%22-thread%29-tp2172759p2186261.html Sent from the Openmoko Support mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
Craig Woodward wrote: Funny you mention that... it's the last on my list, since I've tried most of the others but this one has failed to boot after several attempts. I got a new uSD card just for this setup to see if thats what's preventing the boot. Two things I found that stop boots on android images I've used are - SD card partitions and uboot. If you're using uboot you must alter the uboot environment to be able to use a larger kernel. The default limit is 2MB. The way I did it was to grab the uboot env using dfu-util ... basically follow the instructions http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#What_if_I_borked_my_bootloader_environment_and_don.27t_get_a_prompt_anymore.3F here but edit the environment.in file to set a kernel partition size of 3 or so MB. There's also a way to do it using the uboot command line but I'm not familiar with that. The SD card *must* be formatted with two partitions. The second one *must* be ext3. The first I usually format as FAT 16, though FAT 32 may work too. The first partition will appear to android as its SD card, the second will be used for its data/config store. I don't know what size to recommend, but it's worked with 2/6GB on my 8GB card. HTH. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Experiences-with-GTA02-and-OM2008.12-%28was-part-of-the-%22Brick%22-thread%29-tp2172759p2188843.html Sent from the Openmoko Support mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12
Gothnet openm...@nastylittlehorse.net writes: GPS just works, phone calls just work, SMS just works, Wifi works (with a Hmm, phone calls surely suffer from the same buzz issue that affects all users? manual directory creation step), the keyboard is good, the interface is And wifi is surely the same as anybody following the andy-tracking has? ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
You don't need to mess with uboot environment anymore. Download the kernel in the android forum at forum.koolu.org in the Android Pre-built image... thread, where the kernel is under 2M. Android works well, but the phone is unusable still in my opinion. It's so quiet that you can't hear ANYTHING with any background noise such as in a car, on the street, with music in the background. This is being worked on, but if you're looking for a usable phone, this isn't it yet. Don't get me wrong, I love it, and actually feel quite motivated to help resolve this volume issue, because otherwise it's a great environment. Gothnet wrote: Craig Woodward wrote: Funny you mention that... it's the last on my list, since I've tried most of the others but this one has failed to boot after several attempts. I got a new uSD card just for this setup to see if thats what's preventing the boot. Two things I found that stop boots on android images I've used are - SD card partitions and uboot. If you're using uboot you must alter the uboot environment to be able to use a larger kernel. The default limit is 2MB. The way I did it was to grab the uboot env using dfu-util ... basically follow the instructions http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#What_if_I_borked_my_bootloader_environment_and_don.27t_get_a_prompt_anymore.3F here but edit the environment.in file to set a kernel partition size of 3 or so MB. There's also a way to do it using the uboot command line but I'm not familiar with that. The SD card *must* be formatted with two partitions. The second one *must* be ext3. The first I usually format as FAT 16, though FAT 32 may work too. The first partition will appear to android as its SD card, the second will be used for its data/config store. I don't know what size to recommend, but it's worked with 2/6GB on my 8GB card. HTH. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12
Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: Hmm, phone calls surely suffer from the same buzz issue that affects all users? And wifi is surely the same as anybody following the andy-tracking has? Well I've never noticed the buzz on my handset, but presumably it does suffer from it as (AFAIK) it's a hardware issue? And wifi - well last time I spent much time with OM2008.X it was a pain to do manually and wifimofi was... unreliable, but it's been a while since I tried. I should also say that I tried a new image today and GPS doesn't seem to want to work. It's far from perfect, yet, but I like it. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Experiences-with-GTA02-and-OM2008.12-%28was-part-of-the-%22Brick%22-thread%29-tp2172759p2189040.html Sent from the Openmoko Support mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12
Gothnet openm...@nastylittlehorse.net writes: Well I've never noticed the buzz on my handset, but presumably it does suffer from it as (AFAIK) it's a hardware issue? It's the other party that hears it. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12
Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: It's the other party that hears it. Well last time I used it to call people all they complained about was the terrible echo. That was 2008.09 though. Haven't noticed it (buzz or echo) with android when calling between my two phones here, and a friend also trying it on his FR said calling was fine. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Experiences-with-GTA02-and-OM2008.12-%28was-part-of-the-%22Brick%22-thread%29-tp2172759p2189174.html Sent from the Openmoko Support mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12
buzz is still there ...about as noticeable as the conversation (very low sound level) [written from android :-p ] ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Andriod/Koolu (Was: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12)
I've found the the SMS buzz is there, but not as bad with images that have (or boot with) a recent kernel. I seem to recall there was a patch that reduced the SMS buzz, so maybe the more recent kernels have that and that's the reason. It's not that bad to be honest though. Most of the images have had sub-par earpiece volume though. Gothnet openm...@nastylittlehorse.net wrote: Two things I found that stop boots on android images I've used are - SD card partitions and uboot. It was the partition that was stopping me. Apparently my external card reader on my linux box doesn't see/partition/format that card the way the FR does. While I was testing another image I partitioned and formatted a spare card, and now the Android system boots up. Haven't had a lot of time to play with it, but it seems much nicer than anything else so far. I figured out what was blowing up QTExt as well: Bluetooth. While setting up to drive w/ hands free worked, when I placed a call with audio over the headset, it worked for about 2 seconds (of ringing) and the dumped the GUI and died. At the office I took off my bluetooth dongle from the PC there, and the FR was fine. Plugged it in, and 5 seconds later QT died. :P If you're using uboot you must alter the uboot environment Actually, the latest version from Koolu doesn't have this restriction any more. They pushed some kernel drivers into modules so the kernel is under 2M now, so a normal uboot can load it. It's still very picky about the card though... I haven't tested wifi yet, but sms and calls seem very stable. I've yet to play with bluetooth and such, but it's not randomly crashing, so that's probably a good sign. I have noticed Andriod is still a little rough around the edges. Little things, like it doesn't shutdown. But I'd much rather have a phone that doesn't want to turn off than one that doesn't want to turn on, or be bothered with calls. ;) One thing I'm seeing is that most of the images fail in the same two system (at least, some fail on more...). One is the sound system, which on some images just stops working after a while. Audio output stops, be it phone, wave output, anything. It really looks like a driver issue for the sound chip, since a reboot fixes it. I'm wondering if it's compiled as a module if removing and reinstalling it would help, since that may re-init the hardware on re-load. The other seems to be on GSM communication of out-of-band data. Things like SMS and call notification. That's my biggest gripe, missed calls and SMS messages. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
Am Monday 19 January 2009 03:50:15 schrieb Wolfgang Spraul: Do you see any problems with GTA01 support in Om2009? Here is what I can think of: 1. image size - seems we will have no problem, Om2009 should be less than 64MB? Current FSO-images are a bit fat around the hips (80MB), but we can strip things or move to requiring an SD. 2. Qi - not sure where Qi on GTA01 stands, and how risky we believe it would be to ask GTA01 users to switch to Qi Very risky for all those without debug boards. 3. .28 kernel - not sure exactly what the current status of the .28 kernel on GTA01 is, but I know some people are working on it Stefan? 4. building it regularly and testing it - well I guess building is no problem for you, you always build GTA01 and GTA02 images, testing should be fine Wendy has a fully functional GTA01 in Taipei Yeah. Anything else? Nothing I can think of. If we get .28 running solid on GTA01, userland will not be a problem. -- :M: ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
Hello. On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 01:38, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Am Monday 19 January 2009 03:50:15 schrieb Wolfgang Spraul: 3. .28 kernel - not sure exactly what the current status of the .28 kernel on GTA01 is, but I know some people are working on it Stefan? Testing it is still on my agenda. It was already for yesterday, but some OE busybox trouble stopped me from booting. Sort this out, test .28 and send a report to the kernel list are the next steps. regards Stefan Schmidt ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
Neil Benn neil.b...@ziath.com wrote: Hmm, to be fair the webpage itself says that the FreeRunner is only for power users and developers and is not ready for the general consumer. Yes Neil, it does NOW. But 9 months ago when FIC originally started selling the FreeRunner, when *I* bought it, they clearly said on the order page that this was a consumer ready device. That's one of the main gripes a lot of us from the initial buy are having. The GTA01 was always listed as a development device. But when the GTA02 launched, FIC called it consumer ready, and now many months later they're back peddling on that and re-branding it because they can't deliver what they sold. To be clear, I'll say it again: Nine months ago FIC called this consumer ready, and the words development kit where nowhere on the order page. No matter what they say NOW, 9 months ago when people bough the phone, they bought it under false pretenses. And with *nobody* in the forums or groups owning one, there were no whiners saying there were issues. I know... I looked at the forums, and read the lists before shelling out several hundred dollars. Everything looked like this was stable, that FIC was reputable, and the phone would be ready out of the box, or at least was close to it. In fact, some GTA01 users (like some recent 02 users here) said they were using the GTA01 as a phone, with the matchbox image (now known as OM). The only indicator anything was wrong was rumblings that *maybe* there was an issue around battery life, due to lack of sleep mode. I'd take that right now... I can buy more batteries. I can't buy a working image that has stable GSM/SMS. I actually purchased it for a handheld device which can act as a USB host And for that purpose, and many others, it's a GREAT device. I've used mine as a GPS for several months via TangoGPS by pre-loading maps though USB to a uSD card. With OM2008.12 I can now setup GPRS and download the maps on the fly (if I needed to... they're all on card now though). As a PDA/GPS, this could be a great device. But I really don't need a $400 PDA/GPS... I need a cell phone. I'll report more on the other dirstros I've tried later, but so far nothing has been very solid in the GSM category. GPS and USB seem to work on everything, which is great. Bluetooth and Wifi either aren't available at all or only have limited use in most images. And GSM/SMS service is really hit or miss, though ironically GPRS is pretty stable on OM. On some distros though you have to choose one or the other, since the mux package isn't available (or doesn't work) for all the images. :P As for comments from others about waiting for OM to get the software together, that's what I'm worried about. The GTA01 folks waited almost 2 years and now OM has dropped support for that device, so they're stuck with a puck. OM has clearly said they will NOT be working on GTA01 and more, and there's not a stable image for it, probably never will be. With GTA03 due out sometime this year, the clock starts ticking on the GTA02. With the speed things are going, I'm not sure waiting is going to see a stable image for the GTA02 before OM decides to drop support. And OM has NOT countered this argument, but in fact has confirmed that their current development is focusing on changes to support the GTA03 and other compatible open source handsets. I'm just not sure I'm willing to gamble several hundred dollars that anyone involved will do in the next year what was promised for the past two: release a stable working base image for a GTA device. Especially when OM is proclaiming loudly that they're not FIC, FIC has downgraded the GTA02 from a consumer ready phone to a development platform, and both have completely abandoned the GTA01 crowd. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
Craig, The GTA01 folks waited almost 2 years and now OM has dropped support for that device, so they're stuck with a puck. OM has clearly said they will NOT be working on GTA01 and more, and there's not a stable image for it, probably never will be. Repeating rumors again and again still doesn't make them true. There are few GTA01 out there (ca. 2000 were sold, maybe only a few hundred active ones remain today?). The paid employees of Openmoko support it. Just a few weeks ago I recovered a GTA01 and sent it to Balaji, for continued GTA01 support (he's not the only one, I'm just giving you an example of someone who recently _STARTED_ to support GTA01). If you look at FSO, the base of our upcoming distribution, did you notice that they always build GTA01 and GTA02 images? See http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/fso-stable/milestone4.1/ Why do you think they do that? They forgot to turn off the GTA01 builds and listen to the bad orders from management telling them to stop supporting GTA01? :-) I'm not saying GTA01 support is perfect. It isn't. That's probably where the rumors of dropped support come from - dissatisfaction with the level of support. Since the number of GTA02 users is larger, we allocate resources proportionally. I think that's only fair. Some people mainly work on GTA02, some people mainly work on GTA03. At lot of people actually work on pieces of software that is not device-specific. But continuously claiming GTA01 support was dropped is just wrong, and if you say OM has clearly said they will NOT be working on GTA01 then please give me at least a more specific source who said it and in which context. Best Regards, way to go GTA01 :-) Wolfgang On Jan 18, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Craig Woodward wrote: Neil Benn neil.b...@ziath.com wrote: Hmm, to be fair the webpage itself says that the FreeRunner is only for power users and developers and is not ready for the general consumer. Yes Neil, it does NOW. But 9 months ago when FIC originally started selling the FreeRunner, when *I* bought it, they clearly said on the order page that this was a consumer ready device. That's one of the main gripes a lot of us from the initial buy are having. The GTA01 was always listed as a development device. But when the GTA02 launched, FIC called it consumer ready, and now many months later they're back peddling on that and re-branding it because they can't deliver what they sold. To be clear, I'll say it again: Nine months ago FIC called this consumer ready, and the words development kit where nowhere on the order page. No matter what they say NOW, 9 months ago when people bough the phone, they bought it under false pretenses. And with *nobody* in the forums or groups owning one, there were no whiners saying there were issues. I know... I looked at the forums, and read the lists before shelling out several hundred dollars. Everything looked like this was stable, that FIC was reputable, and the phone would be ready out of the box, or at least was close to it. In fact, some GTA01 users (like some recent 02 users here) said they were using the GTA01 as a phone, with the matchbox image (now known as OM). The only indicator anything was wrong was rumblings that *maybe* there was an issue around battery life, due to lack of sleep mode. I'd take that right now... I can buy more batteries. I can't buy a working image that has stable GSM/SMS. I actually purchased it for a handheld device which can act as a USB host And for that purpose, and many others, it's a GREAT device. I've used mine as a GPS for several months via TangoGPS by pre-loading maps though USB to a uSD card. With OM2008.12 I can now setup GPRS and download the maps on the fly (if I needed to... they're all on card now though). As a PDA/GPS, this could be a great device. But I really don't need a $400 PDA/GPS... I need a cell phone. I'll report more on the other dirstros I've tried later, but so far nothing has been very solid in the GSM category. GPS and USB seem to work on everything, which is great. Bluetooth and Wifi either aren't available at all or only have limited use in most images. And GSM/SMS service is really hit or miss, though ironically GPRS is pretty stable on OM. On some distros though you have to choose one or the other, since the mux package isn't available (or doesn't work) for all the images. :P As for comments from others about waiting for OM to get the software together, that's what I'm worried about. The GTA01 folks waited almost 2 years and now OM has dropped support for that device, so they're stuck with a puck. OM has clearly said they will NOT be working on GTA01 and more, and there's not a stable image for it, probably never will be. With GTA03 due out sometime this year, the clock starts ticking on the GTA02. With the
GTA 01s for sale [Was -Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 ]
Best Regards, way to go GTA01 :-) Wolfgang I anyone has a Neo 1973 out there who wishes to sell, I will be happy to buy it. (will buy more than one if available). Msg me off list. Rakshat PS - I used the 1973 as my only phone (disabled suspend - horrible battery life but otherwise ok) and now use the Freerunner (2008.12 with fixes from wiki and disabled suspend). Both seem to work reliably for me. The only thing I do is that charge above 80% every eveinig and then reboot the phone and repeat the same excersise every morning. The battery life is reaching 10 + hours with suspend disabled now. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
wolfgang, could you put that in the wiki, together with the statements regarding the buzz fix, for further reference? (Allegations, Accusations and Rumors or so) it would help a lot to stop needless complaints jamming the lists ... ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@openmoko.com wrote: Repeating rumors again and again still doesn't make them true. Is this a rumor? PLEASE CLARIFY. Will the GTA01 continue to get software support from OM in it's baseline release (OM2xxx series)? If the answer is yes, then I'm much happier. If not, then it's just a matter of time before the GTA02 follows the same path of dropped without show-stopping bugs being fixed. Again, I don't expect perpetual support. I do expect continued support until the major issues (like ticket 1662) are resolved in a base image. Within days of the December release there were questions about future GTA01 support, and it was said on the OM list that OM was no longer supporting the GTA01 in the OM2xxx images. Admittedly, this was said by a non-OM employee (Rod Whitby), but nobody from OM spoke up to correct it. The only reply from OM until now was from Mickey, who wrote the the posting attached below. As I read it, it screamed to me that OM was trying to quietly drop support for the 01 without saying it directly. Mickey choose his words very carefully, which I noted when I read it, so that he wasn't flat out saying OM was dropping support. But he also didn't say they were continuing support either. Think about it for a second. You have a lot of people that can't get their phone to work reliably with second generation hardware after 8 months of trying. You have one primary product with your name on it, the OM2xxx image series. The latest one says it does NOT support the GTA01, with no comment about if future versions will again support it. And when the question is asked, we get a vague answer about how the GTA01 doesn't need OM for new updates, followed by crickets. So I ask again: Will OM support GTA01 in future baseline OM2xxx releases? Yes, or No. Michael 'Mickey' Lauer mic...@openmoko.org wrote: = I don't want to comment on whether Openmoko should do more work on GTA01 or rather concentrate on 02 and 03, but I do want to state that you can't compare the usual end-of-support product to an Openmoko end-of-support product. Openmoko not releasing anymore images for 01 is _orders of magnitude_ less of a problem than any competitor no longer supporting a model. The reason being the paradigmatic openness of Openmoko. Everything is out there -- at your fingertips, so to speak -- you can still compile 2009.x for the 01 (yes, you need to remove some things) or work on exciting new software for it. U-Boot and the kernel may not receive many more updates, but that's about it. For the rest of it, you don't have to rely on Openmoko to get fresh software for your GTA01. Again, while I don't want to comment whether this is right or wrong from Openmoko Inc, I hope that it puts things into perspective. Yours, Mickey. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
Craig Woodward wrote: Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@openmoko.com wrote: Repeating rumors again and again still doesn't make them true. Within days of the December release there were questions about future GTA01 support, and it was said on the OM list that OM was no longer supporting the GTA01 in the OM2xxx images. Admittedly, this was said by a non-OM employee (Rod Whitby), but nobody from OM spoke up to correct it. I obviously don't represent Openmoko, and based my comments on the release notes for those Om.x releases, and on public statements from Openmoko developers - which may or may not correspond to overall Openmoko strategy, depending on which developer is saying it ;-) However, this is in the context of Openmoko moving to FSO-based images Real Soon Now, and the autobuilder for FSO-based images definitely does support GTA01 - mainly because I maintain it, and up until recently I only had a GTA01 to test with, and because Mickey and I want the autobuilder to build for as many different phones as we can given the resources available. There has also been an update by Openmoko to gllin for the GTA01 since Openmoko stopped releasing GTA01 Om.x images. So you can't necessarily draw a no support at all for GTA01 conclusion from observing no GTA01 Om.x images. -- Rod ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
Mickey, (in response to Craig) The only reply from OM until now was from Mickey, who wrote the the posting attached below. As I read it, it screamed to me that OM was trying to quietly drop support for the 01 without saying it directly. Mickey choose his words very carefully, which I noted when I read it, so that he wasn't flat out saying OM was dropping support. But he also didn't say they were continuing support either. I'm very happy you continue to build GTA01 images, thanks a lot! This is fully in-line with what Openmoko wants. Do you have enough GTA01 devices? In Taipei my problem is that I have only 1 GTA01 device, Wendy has it for testing. Please continue with the GTA01 images. When we are moving towards the Om2009 release, the best would be to come out with images for GTA01, GTA02 and GTA03, all at once. Do you see any problems with GTA01 support in Om2009? Here is what I can think of: 1. image size - seems we will have no problem, Om2009 should be less than 64MB? 2. Qi - not sure where Qi on GTA01 stands, and how risky we believe it would be to ask GTA01 users to switch to Qi 3. .28 kernel - not sure exactly what the current status of the .28 kernel on GTA01 is, but I know some people are working on it 4. building it regularly and testing it - well I guess building is no problem for you, you always build GTA01 and GTA02 images, testing should be fine Wendy has a fully functional GTA01 in Taipei Anything else? Thanks and Best Regards, Wolfgang On Jan 19, 2009, at 10:20 AM, Craig Woodward wrote: Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@openmoko.com wrote: Repeating rumors again and again still doesn't make them true. Is this a rumor? PLEASE CLARIFY. Will the GTA01 continue to get software support from OM in it's baseline release (OM2xxx series)? If the answer is yes, then I'm much happier. If not, then it's just a matter of time before the GTA02 follows the same path of dropped without show-stopping bugs being fixed. Again, I don't expect perpetual support. I do expect continued support until the major issues (like ticket 1662) are resolved in a base image. Within days of the December release there were questions about future GTA01 support, and it was said on the OM list that OM was no longer supporting the GTA01 in the OM2xxx images. Admittedly, this was said by a non-OM employee (Rod Whitby), but nobody from OM spoke up to correct it. The only reply from OM until now was from Mickey, who wrote the the posting attached below. As I read it, it screamed to me that OM was trying to quietly drop support for the 01 without saying it directly. Mickey choose his words very carefully, which I noted when I read it, so that he wasn't flat out saying OM was dropping support. But he also didn't say they were continuing support either. Think about it for a second. You have a lot of people that can't get their phone to work reliably with second generation hardware after 8 months of trying. You have one primary product with your name on it, the OM2xxx image series. The latest one says it does NOT support the GTA01, with no comment about if future versions will again support it. And when the question is asked, we get a vague answer about how the GTA01 doesn't need OM for new updates, followed by crickets. So I ask again: Will OM support GTA01 in future baseline OM2xxx releases? Yes, or No. Michael 'Mickey' Lauer mic...@openmoko.org wrote: = I don't want to comment on whether Openmoko should do more work on GTA01 or rather concentrate on 02 and 03, but I do want to state that you can't compare the usual end-of-support product to an Openmoko end-of-support product. Openmoko not releasing anymore images for 01 is _orders of magnitude_ less of a problem than any competitor no longer supporting a model. The reason being the paradigmatic openness of Openmoko. Everything is out there -- at your fingertips, so to speak -- you can still compile 2009.x for the 01 (yes, you need to remove some things) or work on exciting new software for it. U-Boot and the kernel may not receive many more updates, but that's about it. For the rest of it, you don't have to rely on Openmoko to get fresh software for your GTA01. Again, while I don't want to comment whether this is right or wrong from Openmoko Inc, I hope that it puts things into perspective. Yours, Mickey. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
Craig, Is this a rumor? PLEASE CLARIFY. Will the GTA01 continue to get software support from OM in it's baseline release (OM2xxx series)? Yes. We are trying! Just look at http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/testing/ There are images for GTA01 and GTA02, and this is where the base of our next distribution, Om2009, is being built. Right now, it's live. Last build is from January 19, 2009 (today), for both GTA01 and GTA02. I hope we can keep the discipline all the way to the actual release, there are many little details and bumps on the road. Best Regards, Wolfgang On Jan 19, 2009, at 10:20 AM, Craig Woodward wrote: Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@openmoko.com wrote: Repeating rumors again and again still doesn't make them true. Is this a rumor? PLEASE CLARIFY. Will the GTA01 continue to get software support from OM in it's baseline release (OM2xxx series)? If the answer is yes, then I'm much happier. If not, then it's just a matter of time before the GTA02 follows the same path of dropped without show-stopping bugs being fixed. Again, I don't expect perpetual support. I do expect continued support until the major issues (like ticket 1662) are resolved in a base image. Within days of the December release there were questions about future GTA01 support, and it was said on the OM list that OM was no longer supporting the GTA01 in the OM2xxx images. Admittedly, this was said by a non-OM employee (Rod Whitby), but nobody from OM spoke up to correct it. The only reply from OM until now was from Mickey, who wrote the the posting attached below. As I read it, it screamed to me that OM was trying to quietly drop support for the 01 without saying it directly. Mickey choose his words very carefully, which I noted when I read it, so that he wasn't flat out saying OM was dropping support. But he also didn't say they were continuing support either. Think about it for a second. You have a lot of people that can't get their phone to work reliably with second generation hardware after 8 months of trying. You have one primary product with your name on it, the OM2xxx image series. The latest one says it does NOT support the GTA01, with no comment about if future versions will again support it. And when the question is asked, we get a vague answer about how the GTA01 doesn't need OM for new updates, followed by crickets. So I ask again: Will OM support GTA01 in future baseline OM2xxx releases? Yes, or No. Michael 'Mickey' Lauer mic...@openmoko.org wrote: = I don't want to comment on whether Openmoko should do more work on GTA01 or rather concentrate on 02 and 03, but I do want to state that you can't compare the usual end-of-support product to an Openmoko end-of-support product. Openmoko not releasing anymore images for 01 is _orders of magnitude_ less of a problem than any competitor no longer supporting a model. The reason being the paradigmatic openness of Openmoko. Everything is out there -- at your fingertips, so to speak -- you can still compile 2009.x for the 01 (yes, you need to remove some things) or work on exciting new software for it. U-Boot and the kernel may not receive many more updates, but that's about it. For the rest of it, you don't have to rely on Openmoko to get fresh software for your GTA01. Again, while I don't want to comment whether this is right or wrong from Openmoko Inc, I hope that it puts things into perspective. Yours, Mickey. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
Question: I have 2008.12 and have set the feeds to testing - however I have seen only one update (I think) to e come through (opkg update;opkg upgrade). To get the latest goodies should we reflash then? r...@om-gta02:~# cat /etc/opkg/* src/gz daily-Multiverse http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Multiverse src/gz om-dev-all http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/testing/all arch all 1 arch any 6 arch noarch 11 arch arm 16 arch armv4t 21 arch om-gta02 26 src/gz om-dev-armv4t http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/testing/armv4t src/gz om-dev-om-gta02 http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/testing/om-gta02 r...@om-gta02:~# BillK On Mon, 2009-01-19 at 10:52 +0800, Wolfgang Spraul wrote: Craig, Is this a rumor? PLEASE CLARIFY. Will the GTA01 continue to get software support from OM in it's baseline release (OM2xxx series)? Yes. We are trying! Just look at http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/testing/ There are images for GTA01 and GTA02, and this is where the base of our next distribution, Om2009, is being built. Right now, it's live. Last build is from January 19, 2009 (today), for both GTA01 and GTA02. I hope we can keep the discipline all the way to the actual release, there are many little details and bumps on the road. Best Regards, Wolfgang On Jan 19, 2009, at 10:20 AM, Craig Woodward wrote: Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@openmoko.com wrote: Repeating rumors again and again still doesn't make them true. Is this a rumor? PLEASE CLARIFY. Will the GTA01 continue to get software support from OM in it's baseline release (OM2xxx series)? If the answer is yes, then I'm much happier. If not, then it's just a matter of time before the GTA02 follows the same path of dropped without show-stopping bugs being fixed. Again, I don't expect perpetual support. I do expect continued support until the major issues (like ticket 1662) are resolved in a base image. Within days of the December release there were questions about future GTA01 support, and it was said on the OM list that OM was no longer supporting the GTA01 in the OM2xxx images. Admittedly, this was said by a non-OM employee (Rod Whitby), but nobody from OM spoke up to correct it. The only reply from OM until now was from Mickey, who wrote the the posting attached below. As I read it, it screamed to me that OM was trying to quietly drop support for the 01 without saying it directly. Mickey choose his words very carefully, which I noted when I read it, so that he wasn't flat out saying OM was dropping support. But he also didn't say they were continuing support either. Think about it for a second. You have a lot of people that can't get their phone to work reliably with second generation hardware after 8 months of trying. You have one primary product with your name on it, the OM2xxx image series. The latest one says it does NOT support the GTA01, with no comment about if future versions will again support it. And when the question is asked, we get a vague answer about how the GTA01 doesn't need OM for new updates, followed by crickets. So I ask again: Will OM support GTA01 in future baseline OM2xxx releases? Yes, or No. Michael 'Mickey' Lauer mic...@openmoko.org wrote: = I don't want to comment on whether Openmoko should do more work on GTA01 or rather concentrate on 02 and 03, but I do want to state that you can't compare the usual end-of-support product to an Openmoko end-of-support product. Openmoko not releasing anymore images for 01 is _orders of magnitude_ less of a problem than any competitor no longer supporting a model. The reason being the paradigmatic openness of Openmoko. Everything is out there -- at your fingertips, so to speak -- you can still compile 2009.x for the 01 (yes, you need to remove some things) or work on exciting new software for it. U-Boot and the kernel may not receive many more updates, but that's about it. For the rest of it, you don't have to rely on Openmoko to get fresh software for your GTA01. Again, while I don't want to comment whether this is right or wrong from Openmoko Inc, I hope that it puts things into perspective. Yours, Mickey. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support -- William Kenworthy bi...@iinet.net.au Home in Perth! ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
First off, I want to thank Tom for the blog pages he has setup. They're a great reference for setting up the OM base software, and really should be put on the main Wiki release pages somewhere. I'd say the out-of-box functionality of most of the OM releases is highly enhanced if you follow the directions he's posted. Tom Yates madhat...@teaparty.net wrote: On Wed, 7 Jan 2009, Craig Woodward wrote: And core functionality on ALL Neos, like making and receiving calls and SMS, is still unreliable. i'm sorry, but i think that's unfair; my GTA02A6 has been my main phone since i bought it at the end of august 2008. you may never have been able to make things work for you, but it's wrong to say that core functionality on all neos is unreliable; it's fine on mine. Really? Your main phone? On my Neo, applying the same patches you note on your blog, core functionality is NOT reliable. I write device drivers, firmware, SDKs, and applications for a living, so it's not like this is new stuff for me. Try as I may, I can't get this phone to be a phone. And really, I shouldn't have to patch and tweak an image from my phone's manufacture to get base functionality, like making and receiving calls reliably. To be fair before giving up on it, I tried loading up 2008.12 last weekend. This weekend I plan on trying the latest of a couple other releases, like SHR and Android. I even used your blog (which is really a great setup walk though) and a couple other references to get things up and running quickly. At first I was very hopeful and inspired by the improvements I saw since the last OM release I tried (which was admittedly 2008.8). In particular I found that some of the interface was more polished. GRPS setup and usage was MUCH more solid than in the past. In fact, GPRS is now probably the most stable sub system I've used on the FreeRunner. Even suspend seemed to be working with test calls I did from my office phone early on. I did find some annoying bugs in interface still: email not working, SMS not using contact info, etc. But I figured those are user-space problems, which can be fixed later. Polish wasn't my main concern... base functionality was my focus. The first night the phone ran over night and didn't crash, which was great. I used GPS Wifi in the morning, and it worked well. Finally, I tried making a call and it crashed, lost network, and refused to get signal again. After a reboot it registered fine, and my outbound call went well. I hoped it was a glitch from being on almost 12 hours, and went in to work. At work, I got a call but was not able to answer it. The answer button on the screen would highlight, but the phone just keep ringing. A reboot and a call back worked. An hour later I got a call and was able to answer, but the person on the other end couldn't hear me. A reboot again fixed it. Later that day the phone rang half a ring, and went right to the dialog that tells me I'd missed the call. The caller later told me it rang several more times than usual before going to voice mail. Repeat for the next day or so... Of about 15 calls I know about over the two days I was using my Neo, 9 answered as expected. Only one outbound call had an issue out of about 8. Not a very good rate for a phone. Near the end of day one, it dawned on me that I *never* got notification that I had waiting voice mail, which comes as a text message from my provider. In fact, I discovered (over several reboots) that I'd missed most inbound text messages. And despite my phone saying text messages were being sent, only 14 of about 26 actually made it to the carrier, based on reports from friends AND my carrier's ticker on my account web page. Through testing I found this was regardless of if suspend and/or GRPS was on or off. SMS loss appears to have happened more often when GRPS was enabled, but I lost calls and SMS even after I turned both off and rebooted. The window manager crashed every few calls and required rebooting at least a few times a day. I had one occasion where the phone exited suspend mode, rang, and then rebooted (which is when I disabled suspend all together). Over all, I found it so frustrating that on a few occasions I pulled my sim and hopped back on to my 6230. What finally drove me back to the 6230 was when I saw additional texts on my 6230 that the Neo never reported, sent hours or the day before in some cases. Switching back to the Neo, those texts *never* showed up, as if they didn't exist. This despite the fact that my Nokia got them as part of the SMS backlog from my provider (which included the SMS the Neo did receive). I don't know about you, but I call most of the above a lack of core functionality. Admittedly, some of that may be user-side stuff, since for some it's hard to tell where the fault lies without major debugging. But the phone rebooting after ringing; that's pretty clearly a
Re: Experiences with GTA02 and OM2008.12 (was part of the Brick thread)
Hey Craig, Unfortunately your experience matches pretty well the experience I had with the OM2008.8 distro. I switched to QtE 4.4.2 when it came out, and have had a much better experience - I haven't encountered missed calls or SMSs. The only tweaking I did was to turn on suspend in the power managment UI, and to disable the speakerphone alsa config, since it seemed to be causing feedback on occasion. The downside of QtE is that you can't take advantage of all the cool X based software people are putting together. I'm a bit disappointed by your report, though - I had kinda hoped that 2008.12 was making progress If you do experiment with SHR let me know how it goes - the reports I've heard with it sound good... And I definitely agree with your comment about open source devices --- I've used linux for a long time, and I do expect to have to fiddle with it a bit to get the config right initially - but then I expect rock solid performance - not missed calls and texts and having to reboot all the time. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation. QtE comes pretty close - but I'd love to find an X based distro that also does... Warren On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 6:31 AM, Craig Woodward wo...@rochester.rr.comwrote: First off, I want to thank Tom for the blog pages he has setup. They're a great reference for setting up the OM base software, and really should be put on the main Wiki release pages somewhere. I'd say the out-of-box functionality of most of the OM releases is highly enhanced if you follow the directions he's posted. Tom Yates madhat...@teaparty.net wrote: On Wed, 7 Jan 2009, Craig Woodward wrote: And core functionality on ALL Neos, like making and receiving calls and SMS, is still unreliable. i'm sorry, but i think that's unfair; my GTA02A6 has been my main phone since i bought it at the end of august 2008. you may never have been able to make things work for you, but it's wrong to say that core functionality on all neos is unreliable; it's fine on mine. Really? Your main phone? On my Neo, applying the same patches you note on your blog, core functionality is NOT reliable. I write device drivers, firmware, SDKs, and applications for a living, so it's not like this is new stuff for me. Try as I may, I can't get this phone to be a phone. And really, I shouldn't have to patch and tweak an image from my phone's manufacture to get base functionality, like making and receiving calls reliably. To be fair before giving up on it, I tried loading up 2008.12 last weekend. This weekend I plan on trying the latest of a couple other releases, like SHR and Android. I even used your blog (which is really a great setup walk though) and a couple other references to get things up and running quickly. At first I was very hopeful and inspired by the improvements I saw since the last OM release I tried (which was admittedly 2008.8). In particular I found that some of the interface was more polished. GRPS setup and usage was MUCH more solid than in the past. In fact, GPRS is now probably the most stable sub system I've used on the FreeRunner. Even suspend seemed to be working with test calls I did from my office phone early on. I did find some annoying bugs in interface still: email not working, SMS not using contact info, etc. But I figured those are user-space problems, which can be fixed later. Polish wasn't my main concern... base functionality was my focus. The first night the phone ran over night and didn't crash, which was great. I used GPS Wifi in the morning, and it worked well. Finally, I tried making a call and it crashed, lost network, and refused to get signal again. After a reboot it registered fine, and my outbound call went well. I hoped it was a glitch from being on almost 12 hours, and went in to work. At work, I got a call but was not able to answer it. The answer button on the screen would highlight, but the phone just keep ringing. A reboot and a call back worked. An hour later I got a call and was able to answer, but the person on the other end couldn't hear me. A reboot again fixed it. Later that day the phone rang half a ring, and went right to the dialog that tells me I'd missed the call. The caller later told me it rang several more times than usual before going to voice mail. Repeat for the next day or so... Of about 15 calls I know about over the two days I was using my Neo, 9 answered as expected. Only one outbound call had an issue out of about 8. Not a very good rate for a phone. Near the end of day one, it dawned on me that I *never* got notification that I had waiting voice mail, which comes as a text message from my provider. In fact, I discovered (over several reboots) that I'd missed most inbound text messages. And despite my phone saying text messages were being sent, only 14 of about 26 actually made it to the carrier, based on reports from friends AND my
