Re: No Accept-Charset in current betas

[NoOp]

On 10/19/2011 02:00 PM, NoOp wrote:
...
> Interesting results from different browsers (linux):
> http://www.delorie.com:81/some/url.txt
> 
> SeaMonkey:
> GET /some/url.txt HTTP/1.1
> Host: www.delorie.com:81
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111012
> Firefox/8.0 SeaMonkey/2.5 Lightning/1.0b8pre
> Accept: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
> Accept-Language: en-us,en;q=0.5
> Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
> DNT: 1
> Connection: keep-alive
> 
> Chromium:
> GET /some/url.txt HTTP/1.1
> Host: www.delorie.com:81
> Connection: keep-alive
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like
> Gecko) Ubuntu/10.10 Chromium/14.0.835.202 Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1
> Accept: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
> Accept-Encoding: gzip,deflate,sdch
> Accept-Language: en-US,en;q=0.8
> Accept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.3
> 
> Google Chrome:
> GET /some/url.txt HTTP/1.1
> Host: www.delorie.com:81
> Connection: keep-alive
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like
> Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1
> Accept: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
> Accept-Encoding: gzip,deflate,sdch
> Accept-Language: en-US,en;q=0.8
> Accept-Charset: UTF-8,*;q=0.5
> 
> Opera:
> GET /some/url.txt HTTP/1.1
> User-Agent: Opera/9.80 (X11; Linux i686; U; en) Presto/2.9.168 Version/11.52
> Host: www.delorie.com:81
> Accept: text/html, application/xml;q=0.9, application/xhtml+xml,
> image/png, image/webp, image/jpeg, image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, */*;q=0.1
> Accept-Language: en-US,en;q=0.9
> Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
> Connection: Keep-Alive
> 
> Firefox:
> GET /some/url.txt HTTP/1.1
> Host: www.delorie.com:81
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101
> Firefox/7.0.1
> Accept: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
> Accept-Language: en-us,en;q=0.5
> Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
> Accept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
> Connection: keep-alive
> 

IE8:
GET /some/url.txt HTTP/1.1
Accept: image/gif, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, image/pjpeg,
application/vnd.ms-excel, application/vnd.ms-powerpoint,
application/msword, application/x-shockwave-flash,
application/x-silverlight, application/x-ms-application,
application/x-ms-xbap, application/vnd.ms-xpsdocument,
application/xaml+xml, */*
Accept-Language: en-us
User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1;
Trident/4.0; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR
3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729)
Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
Host: www.delorie.com:81
Connection: Keep-Alive

[Sorry for going OT]
I wondered why the:
User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0
part in that string.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537503%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
"Application name and version. For historical reasons, Internet Explorer
identifies itself as a Mozilla browser."



Because the Netscape browser initially implemented many features not
available in other browsers and quickly came to dominate the market, a
number of web sites were designed to work, or work fully, only when they
detected an appropriate version of Mozilla in the user agent string.
Thus, competing browsers began to emulate ("cloak" or "spoof") this
string in order to also work with those sites. The earliest example of
this is Internet Explorer's use of a user agent string beginning
"Mozilla/ (compatible; MSIE ...", in order to receive
content intended for Netscape, its main rival at the time of its
development. This format of user agent string has since been copied by
other user agents, and persisted even after Internet Explorer came to
dominate the browser market.


Amazing... yet we have to spoof as 'Firefox' these days:
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111012
Firefox/8.0 SeaMonkey/2.5



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Re: No Accept-Charset in current betas

[Jochen Roderburg]

On 2011-10-19, Jens Hatlak  wrote:
>
>
>

I have read this now and see a lot discussion about what has to changed to
get rid of the Accept-Charset header, but not much about why they did this.

Only the person who requested the change had some reasons, mainly:
It is no longer needed, because every browser understands utf-8 nowadays.
And a funny compatibilty argument: Internet Explorer does not send this
header so there is no need for Mozilla to send it. 
OTOH, nothing about losing compatibility with their own older releases.

I don't know if all web sites/applications follow the same logic and
automatically use utf-8 when they get no other information, at least
the one that I mentioned (Horde/IMP webmail) does not do this and
needs an individual little hack for Mozilla browsers now.   :-(

Regards,
Jochen Roderburg
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Re: No Accept-Charset in current betas

[NoOp]

On 10/19/2011 01:45 PM, Jochen Roderburg wrote:
> On 2011-10-19, Jens Hatlak  wrote:
>> Jochen Roderburg wrote:
>>> The current beta versions of our Mozilla applications (Firefox 8 / Seamonkey
>>> 2.5) do not send the HTTP Accept-Charset header any longer.
>>> This confuses e.g. our Webmail system (Horde/IMP) which uses this header (if
>>> available) to determine if the browser can handle UTF-8.
>>>
>>> Does anybody know if there is a rationale behind this change
>>> or is this perhaps "just a plain bug"?
>>
>> AFAICS it was removed because it allows fingerprinting, and is not 
>> supported by IE (or all other browsers?). Please note that I did nothing 
>> more than read the initial comment of the following bug; please have a 
>> read yourself for more information. Please also note that this was a 
>> platform change, i.e. nothing was changed for SM in particular but all 
>> Gecko-based applications.
>>
>>
>>
> 
> Thanks for the pointer, I'll have a look at it.
> 
> Strange, that I didn't find this by searching for Accept-Charset in
> Bugzilla.
> 
> J.Roderburg

Interesting results from different browsers (linux):
http://www.delorie.com:81/some/url.txt

SeaMonkey:
GET /some/url.txt HTTP/1.1
Host: www.delorie.com:81
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111012
Firefox/8.0 SeaMonkey/2.5 Lightning/1.0b8pre
Accept: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
Accept-Language: en-us,en;q=0.5
Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
DNT: 1
Connection: keep-alive

Chromium:
GET /some/url.txt HTTP/1.1
Host: www.delorie.com:81
Connection: keep-alive
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like
Gecko) Ubuntu/10.10 Chromium/14.0.835.202 Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1
Accept: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
Accept-Encoding: gzip,deflate,sdch
Accept-Language: en-US,en;q=0.8
Accept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.3

Google Chrome:
GET /some/url.txt HTTP/1.1
Host: www.delorie.com:81
Connection: keep-alive
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like
Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1
Accept: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
Accept-Encoding: gzip,deflate,sdch
Accept-Language: en-US,en;q=0.8
Accept-Charset: UTF-8,*;q=0.5

Opera:
GET /some/url.txt HTTP/1.1
User-Agent: Opera/9.80 (X11; Linux i686; U; en) Presto/2.9.168 Version/11.52
Host: www.delorie.com:81
Accept: text/html, application/xml;q=0.9, application/xhtml+xml,
image/png, image/webp, image/jpeg, image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, */*;q=0.1
Accept-Language: en-US,en;q=0.9
Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
Connection: Keep-Alive

Firefox:
GET /some/url.txt HTTP/1.1
Host: www.delorie.com:81
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/7.0.1
Accept: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
Accept-Language: en-us,en;q=0.5
Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
Accept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
Connection: keep-alive

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Re: No Accept-Charset in current betas

[Jochen Roderburg]

On 2011-10-19, Jens Hatlak  wrote:
> Jochen Roderburg wrote:
>> The current beta versions of our Mozilla applications (Firefox 8 / Seamonkey
>> 2.5) do not send the HTTP Accept-Charset header any longer.
>> This confuses e.g. our Webmail system (Horde/IMP) which uses this header (if
>> available) to determine if the browser can handle UTF-8.
>>
>> Does anybody know if there is a rationale behind this change
>> or is this perhaps "just a plain bug"?
>
> AFAICS it was removed because it allows fingerprinting, and is not 
> supported by IE (or all other browsers?). Please note that I did nothing 
> more than read the initial comment of the following bug; please have a 
> read yourself for more information. Please also note that this was a 
> platform change, i.e. nothing was changed for SM in particular but all 
> Gecko-based applications.
>
>
>

Thanks for the pointer, I'll have a look at it.

Strange, that I didn't find this by searching for Accept-Charset in
Bugzilla.

J.Roderburg
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Re: No Accept-Charset in current betas

[Jens Hatlak]

Jochen Roderburg wrote:

The current beta versions of our Mozilla applications (Firefox 8 / Seamonkey
2.5) do not send the HTTP Accept-Charset header any longer.
This confuses e.g. our Webmail system (Horde/IMP) which uses this header (if
available) to determine if the browser can handle UTF-8.

Does anybody know if there is a rationale behind this change
or is this perhaps "just a plain bug"?


AFAICS it was removed because it allows fingerprinting, and is not 
supported by IE (or all other browsers?). Please note that I did nothing 
more than read the initial comment of the following bug; please have a 
read yourself for more information. Please also note that this was a 
platform change, i.e. nothing was changed for SM in particular but all 
Gecko-based applications.




HTH

Jens

--
Jens Hatlak 
SeaMonkey Trunk Tracker 
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No Accept-Charset in current betas

[Jochen Roderburg]

The current beta versions of our Mozilla applications (Firefox 8 / Seamonkey
2.5) do not send the HTTP Accept-Charset header any longer.
This confuses e.g. our Webmail system (Horde/IMP) which uses this header (if
available) to determine if the browser can handle UTF-8.

Does anybody know if there is a rationale behind this change
or is this perhaps "just a plain bug"?

Jochen Roderburg
RRZK
University of Cologne
Robert-Koch-Str. 10Tel.:   +49-221/478-7024
D-50931 Koeln  E-Mail: roderb...@uni-koeln.de
Germany
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