Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
David E. Ross wrote on 10/07/2015 02:26: -- How to feature-sniff instead of browser-sniff How to feature-sniff for IE, Chrome, Safari and Opera ? Where there is no gecko there :-) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
On 07/10/2015 03:45 AM, Ray_Net wrote: David E. Ross wrote on 10/07/2015 02:26: -- How to feature-sniff instead of browser-sniff How to feature-sniff for IE, Chrome, Safari and Opera ? Where there is no gecko there :-) Is a UA needed if the sites feature sniff? -- Kubuntu 14.10 | KDE 4.14.1 | Thunderbird 42.0a1(Daily) Go Bucs! [Coexist · Understanding Across Divides](https://www.coexist.org/) [Visit Pittsburgh](http://www.visitpittsburgh.com) [Anthrocon 2015: Viking Invasion! | Fur, Fun, And So Much More!](http://www.anthrocon.org/)July 9-12, 2015 [Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix -](http://www.pvgp.org/) July 10-19,2015 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
On 7/10/2015 5:56 AM, WaltS48 wrote: On 07/10/2015 03:45 AM, Ray_Net wrote: David E. Ross wrote on 10/07/2015 02:26: -- How to feature-sniff instead of browser-sniff How to feature-sniff for IE, Chrome, Safari and Opera ? Where there is no gecko there :-) Is a UA needed if the sites feature sniff? No. -- David E. Ross I am sticking with SeaMonkey 2.26.1 until saved passwords can be used when autocomplete=off. See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433238. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
On 7/10/2015 12:45 AM, Ray_Net wrote: David E. Ross wrote on 10/07/2015 02:26: -- How to feature-sniff instead of browser-sniff How to feature-sniff for IE, Chrome, Safari and Opera ? Where there is no gecko there :-) Feature sniffing is independent of user agent. Whether Gecko is present is irrelevant. -- David E. Ross I am sticking with SeaMonkey 2.26.1 until saved passwords can be used when autocomplete=off. See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433238. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
David E. Ross wrote: The link Read More about Gecko on the Gecko is Gecko page at http://geckoisgecko.org/ is a link to a Wikipedia article about Gecko, which was updated less than two weeks ago. You can edit that Wikipedia to eliminate obsolete information. The other links at Gecko is Gecko -- How to feature-sniff instead of browser-sniff and How to properly sniff for a version of Gecko -- are likely still relevant. The page User:Sardisson/Gecko is Gecko at https://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Sardisson/Gecko_is_Gecko was last updated a little over four years ago. As indicated by the URI, this is a Mozilla wiki. You can obtain a logon to update this wiki. I think you're missing my point. This is all good stuff. However, for developers that are doing the wrong thing, of looking explicitly for Firefox, for the few that can be induced to go to geckoisgecko, then if they see this particular page, where the majority of content on the first page is EOL products, they're not going to bother to dig further. In their view all this is, is a listing of a bunch of browsers you've never heard of, and because of the misunderstanding of the difference between the Gecko rendering engine, and Firefox as one implementation of Gecko (even if the most commonly used), the listing of all the EOL products merely reinforces the idea that the other browsers are unworthy of any attention at all, from the developer. What needs to be on the opening page an emphasis on the difference between the rendering engine and the user interface, not the top-level branding, and that this isn't a concept that's limited to Mozilla and Firefox, but also to WebKit and Trident engines. With Trident, that includes browsers such as Maxthon and Baidu. And there's an impressive (and growing) number of browsers based on WebKit, including Chromium, and Safari, and within Chromium, Blink (which includes Google Chrome and Opera), as well as Epic and Comodo Dragon. If a page renders correctly in Google Chrome, I'm not sure there's anything that has to be done to it, to make it render correctly in Safari or Opera or Epic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_browsers And I don't see any reason that the geckoisgecko page can't/shouldn't use WebKit implementations as a concrete example of developing for the engine, and not for the specifically-branded browser. Look at some of the user agent strings that are currently in use: IE 11: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/7.0; rv:11.0) like Gecko Opera 30: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/43.0.2357.125 Safari/537.36 OPR/30.0.1835.88 Chrome 39: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/39.0.2171.95 Safari/537.36 PaleMoon 25.5.0: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:25.5) Gecko/20150607 Firefox/31.9 PaleMoon/25.5.0 Everybody is doing some measure of spoofing -- notice that each one of these as Mozilla/5.0 at the beginning of every string, including IE. Whether we like it or not, the Firefox name is the de facto standard, and Seamonkey is sufficiently a niche product that I think it's unlikely that we can convince many developers to sniff for Gecko, rather than Firefox. At that stage, the best thing to do is simply show a Firefox string to servers, and note that it's Firefox that is being shown by an implementation of Seamonkey. For the most part, that should get Seamonkey users what they need. Yes, there will be brain-dead developers that insist on coding according to their misconceptions, and rejecting anything that's not explicitly and exclusively Firefox. For me, I can live with that, by using PrefsBar to spoof Firefox, if it doesn't force me to launch Chrome or IE to get to the site. Smith ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
On 9/07/2015 4:34 AM, John Duncan wrote: Daniel wrote: On 8/07/2015 5:55 AM, John Duncan wrote: Snip To fix this, couldn't we try always reporting the Firefox/x.x bit at the end of the UA string to deal with invalid sniffing? or is that not the issue in this circumstance? Yes, you could, John, but then no-one will ever know about SM!! So you might as well just use FF! Ha, that is a good point! This doesn't really seem like a big issue anyway. I have yet to come across a website that denies me access based on the fact that I'm advertising SeaMonkey instead of Firefox. The ``chrome-optimised'' websites on the other hand... *shudders* John, that could be because your User Agent, Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:42.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/42.0 SeaMonkey/2.39a1, is advertising Firefox as well as SM!! Have you got Edit-Preferences-Advanced-HTTP Networking set to Advertise FF compatibility?? And did I read elsewhere that you were offering your programming skills up to the Consortium during a work slowdown?? If so, well done. -- Daniel User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:35.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.32 Build identifier: 20141218225909 or User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:36.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.33 Build identifier: 20150215202114 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
On 9/07/2015 7:43 AM, Ray_Net wrote: Ray_Net wrote on 07/07/2015 09:55: WaltS48 wrote on 06/07/2015 23:40: On 07/06/2015 05:22 PM, Ray_Net wrote: WaltS48 wrote on 06/07/2015 15:53: On 07/06/2015 02:26 AM, Ray_Net wrote: A site, telling me that my browser is not up-to-date direct me here: http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr Where in cannot find SeaMonkey Which site directs you there? http://www.skynet.be/fr I see a couple of messages with an X to close each one. The first is Cookie policy, and the second is Browser info. If I click both X's the site still works, even though clicking some links brings them up again. Anyway SeaMonkey IS a non-existant browser by 99% of webmasters. I just use about:config adding this: New string: general.useragent.override - user set - string - Mozilla/9.0 (Windows NT 10.1; rv:99.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/99.0 NOW http://www.skynet.be/fr did not redirect me to: http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr Ray. now that you can get to the required site (skynet!! Are you working on Terminator or something?? ;-P ) , can you tell the Site Manager, or whomever, to start sniffing for Gecko, rather than for Firefox, and direct them to .. http://geckoisgecko.org/ Hmmm, ten different browsers!! -- Daniel User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:35.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.32 Build identifier: 20141218225909 or User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:36.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.33 Build identifier: 20150215202114 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
Daniel wrote on 09/07/2015 08:30: On 9/07/2015 7:43 AM, Ray_Net wrote: Ray_Net wrote on 07/07/2015 09:55: WaltS48 wrote on 06/07/2015 23:40: On 07/06/2015 05:22 PM, Ray_Net wrote: WaltS48 wrote on 06/07/2015 15:53: On 07/06/2015 02:26 AM, Ray_Net wrote: A site, telling me that my browser is not up-to-date direct me here: http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr Where in cannot find SeaMonkey Which site directs you there? http://www.skynet.be/fr I see a couple of messages with an X to close each one. The first is Cookie policy, and the second is Browser info. If I click both X's the site still works, even though clicking some links brings them up again. Anyway SeaMonkey IS a non-existant browser by 99% of webmasters. I just use about:config adding this: New string: general.useragent.override - user set - string - Mozilla/9.0 (Windows NT 10.1; rv:99.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/99.0 NOW http://www.skynet.be/fr did not redirect me to: http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr Ray. now that you can get to the required site (skynet!! Are you working on Terminator or something?? ;-P ) , can you tell the Site Manager, or whomever, to start sniffing for Gecko, rather than for Firefox, and direct them to .. http://geckoisgecko.org/ Hmmm, ten different browsers!! I let you do this action - I was just afraid by the page http://geckoisgecko.org/ showing exotic browsers - too many, very strange and not proposing the other showed on this page http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
Daniel wrote on 09/07/2015 08:37: On 9/07/2015 4:34 AM, John Duncan wrote: Daniel wrote: On 8/07/2015 5:55 AM, John Duncan wrote: Snip To fix this, couldn't we try always reporting the Firefox/x.x bit at the end of the UA string to deal with invalid sniffing? or is that not the issue in this circumstance? Yes, you could, John, but then no-one will ever know about SM!! So you might as well just use FF! Ha, that is a good point! This doesn't really seem like a big issue anyway. I have yet to come across a website that denies me access based on the fact that I'm advertising SeaMonkey instead of Firefox. The ``chrome-optimised'' websites on the other hand... *shudders* John, that could be because your User Agent, Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:42.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/42.0 SeaMonkey/2.39a1, is advertising Firefox as well as SM!! Have you got Edit-Preferences-Advanced-HTTP Networking set to Advertise FF compatibility?? And did I read elsewhere that you were offering your programming skills up to the Consortium during a work slowdown?? If so, well done. I have this option set ... and my UA is advertising seamonkey instead of FireFox, because Seamonkey is the last on the list. Anyway, it's abnormal that a browser advertise itself and another one together :-) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
Ray_Net wrote: Ray. now that you can get to the required site (skynet!! Are you working on Terminator or something?? ;-P ) , can you tell the Site Manager, or whomever, to start sniffing for Gecko, rather than for Firefox, and direct them to .. http://geckoisgecko.org/ Hmmm, ten different browsers!! I let you do this action - I was just afraid by the page http://geckoisgecko.org/ showing exotic browsers - too many, very strange and not proposing the other showed on this page http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr This one is good stuff, but it's showing its age. Of what's there, there's a lot of options listed that are EOL and special case -- far enough out of the mainstream that very few have even heard of them, much less considered using. Specifically * Kazehakase: linux-only, emphasis on Japanese content * Camino: EOL, developers focusing on Firefox * Galeon: linux-only (GNOME Desktop), mostly EOL * Mozilla suite: EOL, succeeded by Seamonkey * Prism: EOL * Fennec: EOL, developers focusing on Firefox for Android * Flock: apparently EOL. Thus, of the 10 listed, only Seamonkey, Firefox and K-Meleon are active projects, and K-Meleon something of a cult project. It's also worth noting that there's no mention of the most widely used Gecko forks, particularly Pale Moon, Waterfox, or that Lunascape includes Gecko support. Plus forks such as IceWeasel. For Evangelism purposes, I think the current content of geckoisgecko is old enough to be counter-productive, in that if a web page maintainer actually sees this one, it's more likely to communicate that implementations of Gecko beyond Firefox are irrelevant: either projects that are now EOL, or where the other options are so obscure that they're not worth even noting names, much less accounting for. Thus, naming some or all the browsers that use Gecko detracts from the core point: any browser that uses Gecko will work fine on a site that correctly implements Gecko, and it doesn't matter which implementation of Gecko it is. And the difference between Firefox, Seamonkey, PaleMoon, or whatever else is essentially irrelevant. Several years ago, I found that most of the time, I could get around sites that demand Firefox as the only acceptable implementation of Gecko by doing browser spoofing, and it being rare that I couldn't get around problems that way. Since the time that Seamonkey started advertising Firefox in its ID, I can't remember a time I've seen a site balk at that. Personally, I've found that I get what I need with PrefsBar, and I've found it also useful being able to spoof the platform, when I occasionally need to download Mac software on a Windows machine, and where a site's browser-sniffing is looking for a platform ID. The only minor complaint I have about PrefsBar is that the default IDs offered are now quite old, and that I occasionally have to go in and adjust settings, so that they match more current versions. Smith ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
On 7/9/2015 12:06 PM, NFN Smith wrote [in part]: Ray_Net wrote: Ray. now that you can get to the required site (skynet!! Are you working on Terminator or something?? ;-P ) , can you tell the Site Manager, or whomever, to start sniffing for Gecko, rather than for Firefox, and direct them to .. http://geckoisgecko.org/ Hmmm, ten different browsers!! I let you do this action - I was just afraid by the page http://geckoisgecko.org/ showing exotic browsers - too many, very strange and not proposing the other showed on this page http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr This one is good stuff, but it's showing its age. Of what's there, there's a lot of options listed that are EOL and special case -- far enough out of the mainstream that very few have even heard of them, much less considered using. Specifically * Kazehakase: linux-only, emphasis on Japanese content * Camino: EOL, developers focusing on Firefox * Galeon: linux-only (GNOME Desktop), mostly EOL * Mozilla suite: EOL, succeeded by Seamonkey * Prism: EOL * Fennec: EOL, developers focusing on Firefox for Android * Flock: apparently EOL. Thus, of the 10 listed, only Seamonkey, Firefox and K-Meleon are active projects, and K-Meleon something of a cult project. It's also worth noting that there's no mention of the most widely used Gecko forks, particularly Pale Moon, Waterfox, or that Lunascape includes Gecko support. Plus forks such as IceWeasel. For Evangelism purposes, I think the current content of geckoisgecko is old enough to be counter-productive, in that if a web page maintainer actually sees this one, it's more likely to communicate that implementations of Gecko beyond Firefox are irrelevant: either projects that are now EOL, or where the other options are so obscure that they're not worth even noting names, much less accounting for. [snipped] The link Read More about Gecko on the Gecko is Gecko page at http://geckoisgecko.org/ is a link to a Wikipedia article about Gecko, which was updated less than two weeks ago. You can edit that Wikipedia to eliminate obsolete information. The other links at Gecko is Gecko -- How to feature-sniff instead of browser-sniff and How to properly sniff for a version of Gecko -- are likely still relevant. The page User:Sardisson/Gecko is Gecko at https://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Sardisson/Gecko_is_Gecko was last updated a little over four years ago. As indicated by the URI, this is a Mozilla wiki. You can obtain a logon to update this wiki. -- David E. Ross I am sticking with SeaMonkey 2.26.1 until saved passwords can be used when autocomplete=off. See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433238. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
On 8/07/2015 6:09 AM, John Duncan wrote: EE wrote: Daniel wrote: and, Jonathan and others, just FYI, it's my belief that if the sniffers sniffed for the term Gecko rather than the actual name then they would accept Firefox, SeaMonkey and Opera (and probably others), at a minimum Opera uses Webkit, so why would a sniffer accept it by looking for Gecko? Probably because opera/chromium user-agents usually include the keywords ``Mozilla'' and/or ``KHTML, like Gecko'' somewhere in them. Is that right, John?? Good, I was just about to reply to EE stating that, at first, I couldn't think of the third Browser so was going to put and some other browsers in my reply, but then Opera popped into my mind, so I stuck it in. Yeah for me!! -- Daniel User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:35.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.32 Build identifier: 20141218225909 or User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:36.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.33 Build identifier: 20150215202114 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
On 8/07/2015 5:55 AM, John Duncan wrote: Snip To fix this, couldn't we try always reporting the Firefox/x.x bit at the end of the UA string to deal with invalid sniffing? or is that not the issue in this circumstance? Yes, you could, John, but then no-one will ever know about SM!! So you might as well just use FF! -- Daniel User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:35.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.32 Build identifier: 20141218225909 or User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:36.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.33 Build identifier: 20150215202114 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
Daniel wrote: On 8/07/2015 6:09 AM, John Duncan wrote: EE wrote: Daniel wrote: and, Jonathan and others, just FYI, it's my belief that if the sniffers sniffed for the term Gecko rather than the actual name then they would accept Firefox, SeaMonkey and Opera (and probably others), at a minimum Opera uses Webkit, so why would a sniffer accept it by looking for Gecko? Probably because opera/chromium user-agents usually include the keywords ``Mozilla'' and/or ``KHTML, like Gecko'' somewhere in them. Is that right, John?? Good, I was just about to reply to EE stating that, at first, I couldn't think of the third Browser so was going to put and some other browsers in my reply, but then Opera popped into my mind, so I stuck it in. Yeah for me!! Yes, I believe so. Although I have not used anything that's not based on Mozilla for awhile, it seems as if all modern versions of Opera advertise Mozilla/Gecko-compatibility in their UA simply for historical purposes (http://user-agents.me/search?q=32.0.1910.0). I know the older version either advertised the presto layout engine or Mozilla/Gecko. It also seems as if all versions of Google's chrome browser advertise ``Mozilla/5.0'' and ``KHTML, like Gecko'' strings in its UA (http://user-agents.me/search?q=45.0.2438.3). ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
Daniel wrote: On 8/07/2015 5:55 AM, John Duncan wrote: Snip To fix this, couldn't we try always reporting the Firefox/x.x bit at the end of the UA string to deal with invalid sniffing? or is that not the issue in this circumstance? Yes, you could, John, but then no-one will ever know about SM!! So you might as well just use FF! Ha, that is a good point! This doesn't really seem like a big issue anyway. I have yet to come across a website that denies me access based on the fact that I'm advertising SeaMonkey instead of Firefox. The ``chrome-optimised'' websites on the other hand... *shudders* ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
Ray_Net wrote on 07/07/2015 09:55: WaltS48 wrote on 06/07/2015 23:40: On 07/06/2015 05:22 PM, Ray_Net wrote: WaltS48 wrote on 06/07/2015 15:53: On 07/06/2015 02:26 AM, Ray_Net wrote: A site, telling me that my browser is not up-to-date direct me here: http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr Where in cannot find SeaMonkey Which site directs you there? http://www.skynet.be/fr I see a couple of messages with an X to close each one. The first is Cookie policy, and the second is Browser info. If I click both X's the site still works, even though clicking some links brings them up again. Anyway SeaMonkey IS a non-existant browser by 99% of webmasters. I just use about:config adding this: New string: general.useragent.override - user set - string - Mozilla/9.0 (Windows NT 10.1; rv:99.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/99.0 NOW http://www.skynet.be/fr did not redirect me to: http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
WaltS48 wrote on 06/07/2015 23:40: On 07/06/2015 05:22 PM, Ray_Net wrote: WaltS48 wrote on 06/07/2015 15:53: On 07/06/2015 02:26 AM, Ray_Net wrote: A site, telling me that my browser is not up-to-date direct me here: http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr Where in cannot find SeaMonkey Which site directs you there? http://www.skynet.be/fr I see a couple of messages with an X to close each one. The first is Cookie policy, and the second is Browser info. If I click both X's the site still works, even though clicking some links brings them up again. Anyway SeaMonkey IS a non-existant browser by 99% of webmasters. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
Daniel wrote: and, Jonathan and others, just FYI, it's my belief that if the sniffers sniffed for the term Gecko rather than the actual name then they would accept Firefox, SeaMonkey and Opera (and probably others), at a minimum Opera uses Webkit, so why would a sniffer accept it by looking for Gecko? ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
David E. Ross wrote: On 7/5/2015 11:26 PM, Ray_Net wrote: A site, telling me that my browser is not up-to-date direct me here: http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr Where in cannot find SeaMonkey This is the result of invalid user-agent sniffing. See my http://www.rossde.com/internet/sniffing.shtml. Agreed. Perhaps, they are just sniffing the last string that is available in the useragent. For example, when I go to many of those ``whatismyuseragent'' websites, they will truncate down my useragent into simply ``Lightning 4.4,'' because I am using the latest version of the Lightning calendar add-on which appends itself onto the end of my user agent string (after the SeaMonkey/2.xx bit). I am assuming it sees ``SeaMonkey/2.xx'' or ``Lightning/4.4'' and assumes that you're using some ancient or non-existent non web-compliant browser. To fix this, couldn't we try always reporting the Firefox/x.x bit at the end of the UA string to deal with invalid sniffing? or is that not the issue in this circumstance? ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
EE wrote: Daniel wrote: and, Jonathan and others, just FYI, it's my belief that if the sniffers sniffed for the term Gecko rather than the actual name then they would accept Firefox, SeaMonkey and Opera (and probably others), at a minimum Opera uses Webkit, so why would a sniffer accept it by looking for Gecko? Probably because opera/chromium user-agents usually include the keywords ``Mozilla'' and/or ``KHTML, like Gecko'' somewhere in them. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
On 7/07/2015 1:49 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote: Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP] wrote: On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 09:04:30 -0400, Jonathan N. Little lws4...@gmail.com wrote: Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP] wrote: On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 08:26:19 +0200, Ray_Net tbrraymond.schmit...@tbrscarlet.be wrote: A site, telling me that my browser is not up-to-date direct me here: http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr Where in cannot find SeaMonkey Seamonkey is not a commonly recognized browser like Firefox. Which is a all too common web design *error* that relies on User Agent sniffing instead of browser feature check to determine browser compatibility. Right but it's not the fault of Mozilla I agree, not their problem or web designers. but there I disagree. It is just poor coding(ditto for programming) practice to use NAME and not FEATURE support. Especially with FOSS where codebase can be used in a number of very capable yet differently named applications. Think Iceweasel, Pale Moon, Waterfox, etc. Ask 100 random Internet users if they've used SM and then ask the same 100 if they've used Firefox. This situation was helped somewhat by Tools Options Preferences Advanced HTTP Network Advertise Firefox Compatibility but most web designers stick to the big 4: FF, IE, Safari or Chrome. You see where that can be a problem, impracticable to list ALL capable browsers without excluding ones that do but you just didn't list in the UA. Much better to test the feature interface. and, Jonathan and others, just FYI, it's my belief that if the sniffers sniffed for the term Gecko rather than the actual name then they would accept Firefox, SeaMonkey and Opera (and probably others), at a minimum -- Daniel User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:35.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.32 Build identifier: 20141218225909 or User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:36.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.33 Build identifier: 20150215202114 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
Daniel wrote on 07/07/2015 12:16: On 7/07/2015 1:49 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote: Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP] wrote: On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 09:04:30 -0400, Jonathan N. Little lws4...@gmail.com wrote: Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP] wrote: On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 08:26:19 +0200, Ray_Net tbrraymond.schmit...@tbrscarlet.be wrote: A site, telling me that my browser is not up-to-date direct me here: http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr Where in cannot find SeaMonkey Seamonkey is not a commonly recognized browser like Firefox. Which is a all too common web design *error* that relies on User Agent sniffing instead of browser feature check to determine browser compatibility. Right but it's not the fault of Mozilla I agree, not their problem or web designers. but there I disagree. It is just poor coding(ditto for programming) practice to use NAME and not FEATURE support. Especially with FOSS where codebase can be used in a number of very capable yet differently named applications. Think Iceweasel, Pale Moon, Waterfox, etc. Ask 100 random Internet users if they've used SM and then ask the same 100 if they've used Firefox. This situation was helped somewhat by Tools Options Preferences Advanced HTTP Network Advertise Firefox Compatibility but most web designers stick to the big 4: FF, IE, Safari or Chrome. You see where that can be a problem, impracticable to list ALL capable browsers without excluding ones that do but you just didn't list in the UA. Much better to test the feature interface. and, Jonathan and others, just FYI, it's my belief that if the sniffers sniffed for the term Gecko rather than the actual name then they would accept Firefox, SeaMonkey and Opera (and probably others), at a minimum Yes, but Gecko is NOT a browser, or the sniffer snif a browser name ... ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP] wrote: On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 08:26:19 +0200, Ray_Net tbrraymond.schmit...@tbrscarlet.be wrote: A site, telling me that my browser is not up-to-date direct me here: http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr Where in cannot find SeaMonkey Seamonkey is not a commonly recognized browser like Firefox. Which is a all too common web design *error* that relies on User Agent sniffing instead of browser feature check to determine browser compatibility. -- Take care, Jonathan --- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
On 07/06/2015 02:26 AM, Ray_Net wrote: A site, telling me that my browser is not up-to-date direct me here: http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr Where in cannot find SeaMonkey Which site directs you there? Getting it fixed to work with SeaMonkey seems like the priority. Browser Happy also doesn't offer Pale Moon, Waterfox, Vivaldi and the list goes on. -- Kubuntu 14.10 | KDE 4.14.1 | Thunderbird 42.0a1(Daily) Go Bucs! [Coexist · Understanding Across Divides](https://www.coexist.org/) [Visit Pittsburgh](http://www.visitpittsburgh.com) [Deutschtown Music Festival | A free full day of music July 11th, featuring 120+ live bands playing all over Deutschtown](http://deutschtownmusicfestival.org/) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
WaltS48 wrote on 06/07/2015 15:53: On 07/06/2015 02:26 AM, Ray_Net wrote: A site, telling me that my browser is not up-to-date direct me here: http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr Where in cannot find SeaMonkey Which site directs you there? http://www.skynet.be/fr ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP] wrote: On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 09:04:30 -0400, Jonathan N. Little lws4...@gmail.com wrote: Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP] wrote: On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 08:26:19 +0200, Ray_Net tbrraymond.schmit...@tbrscarlet.be wrote: A site, telling me that my browser is not up-to-date direct me here: http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr Where in cannot find SeaMonkey Seamonkey is not a commonly recognized browser like Firefox. Which is a all too common web design *error* that relies on User Agent sniffing instead of browser feature check to determine browser compatibility. Right but it's not the fault of Mozilla I agree, not their problem or web designers. but there I disagree. It is just poor coding(ditto for programming) practice to use NAME and not FEATURE support. Especially with FOSS where codebase can be used in a number of very capable yet differently named applications. Think Iceweasel, Pale Moon, Waterfox, etc. Ask 100 random Internet users if they've used SM and then ask the same 100 if they've used Firefox. This situation was helped somewhat by Tools Options Preferences Advanced HTTP Network Advertise Firefox Compatibility but most web designers stick to the big 4: FF, IE, Safari or Chrome. You see where that can be a problem, impracticable to list ALL capable browsers without excluding ones that do but you just didn't list in the UA. Much better to test the feature interface. It's entirely possible to advertise SM as FF via about:config but that's for the OP to Google and try on their own. Just wallpapering over the the problem in my opinion. -- Take care, Jonathan --- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
On 7/5/2015 11:26 PM, Ray_Net wrote: A site, telling me that my browser is not up-to-date direct me here: http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr Where in cannot find SeaMonkey This is the result of invalid user-agent sniffing. See my http://www.rossde.com/internet/sniffing.shtml. -- David E. Ross I am sticking with SeaMonkey 2.26.1 until saved passwords can be used when autocomplete=off. See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433238. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Again SeaMonkey is fully unknown
On 07/06/2015 05:22 PM, Ray_Net wrote: WaltS48 wrote on 06/07/2015 15:53: On 07/06/2015 02:26 AM, Ray_Net wrote: A site, telling me that my browser is not up-to-date direct me here: http://browsehappy.com/?locale=fr Where in cannot find SeaMonkey Which site directs you there? http://www.skynet.be/fr I see a couple of messages with an X to close each one. The first is Cookie policy, and the second is Browser info. If I click both X's the site still works, even though clicking some links brings them up again. -- Kubuntu 14.10 | KDE 4.14.1 | Thunderbird 42.0a1(Daily) Go Bucs! [Coexist · Understanding Across Divides](https://www.coexist.org/) [Visit Pittsburgh](http://www.visitpittsburgh.com) [Deutschtown Music Festival | A free full day of music July 11th, featuring 120+ live bands playing all over Deutschtown](http://deutschtownmusicfestival.org/) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
