Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Rufus]

Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:

Rufus wrote:

Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:

Rufus wrote:


I must import/export Bookmarks files at least twice a week - to share
them between installs on different machines (my iPad in particular -
Safari for iPad has finally been enhanced with the features I want to
make it usable), and I even edit sets to pass to friends over e-mail as
collections of links.  Very, *very* handy once you learn what you can do
with that file.


If "Firefox Home" is available for the iPad, you can use that +
SeaMonkey Sync instead of manual export ;-)



Again, no joy.  It looks optimized for iPhone - which means I'd have to
use the iPad built in 2X zoom and live with crappy display in my
browser.  It also looks like a "note taker" and not really a browser.
Plus I would never use Firefox in lieu of SM...I'd use Safari.  Opera
Mini would probably be more to my liking, but then I'd be in the same
boat as I am now.


I know this was said elsewhere, but Firefox Home is not a browser and is
merely a program for syncing the Browser Data between your browser and
your iOS device. There is work being done on a tablet version of it
iirc, fwiw.



Yes...and I would *want* it to be a browser if I were going to use such 
a solution.  And if it weren't that iOS Safari now serves my needs.  And 
I already have a very simple built in way to synch my iPad as it is.



Regarding your "cloud service" concerns, I ask why? and provide a few
forethought reasons why you may not need to worry:
* Sync data is encrypted on your client before any data is sent to the
server, using a key that the server has no knowledge of. -- thus even
someone who could GET your data off the server itself can't do anything
with it, except you.
*If that still bothers you, you have the option of setting up your own
sync server and pointing SeaMonkey and your other sync devices at that
server, so your data remains only in your possession.



I don't like my information being stored external from my control - 
encrypted or not.  I do my own backups, I still buy CDs, and I maintain 
all that is mine myself to the greatest extent that I can.  Just my 
personal preference.  I don't/won't use cloud anything, much other than 
internet radio.


Besides - when it comes to synching my iPad the capability is already 
built into my system as a Mac OS/iPad user, so a third party solution 
isn't really of any interest to me seeing as I already like the built in 
functionality I have - synching Safari to Safari directly.



Surprised though...given the SM team's outrage and upset at my vigorous
requests for an iOS version of SM I expected I'd never see any such
product for iOS.  But much as I figured, it *can* and *has* been done,
or at least started - kudos to the Firefox team!  Hope they finish the
job and put out an iPad optimized version.


Overall we would love to have the manpower to do a mobile offering, the
fact though is that we don't.



And that it's against your stated business aims/philosophy...but again, 
Apple itself has filled my desire, so for me it's moot now.


As an aside - I also use NewsTap on my iPad as a usenet reader, and 
really like it.  Unless I had a way to synch SM Mail to NewsTap and 
maintain a closed loop with the suite, using something like Firefox Home 
again doesn't really fill the bill - I'd need a genuine SM synch that 
could address both Safari and NewsTap (and Mail.app, for that matter) 
before I'd be in the least interested in an add-on.  It has to do 
something I can't do natively, or do it better than what I can do 
natively - Firefox Home doesn't fill that requirement for me.



All that said if import/export works for you and you like the added
work, no problem... I just don't recommend it as a common practice, nor
do I plan to approve any work to make it such.



It's not really "work"...I've been doing this since I discovered the 
ability nearly a decade ago.  It's very easy and very straightforward - 
far more so than diddling with about:config...which people do regularly. 
 Not to mention that it lets me interact with others for cross-platform 
interchange.  It not really "work" - it's a very useful and handy feature.


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Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Justin Wood (Callek)]

Rufus wrote:
> Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:
>> Rufus wrote:
>>>
>>> I must import/export Bookmarks files at least twice a week - to share
>>> them between installs on different machines (my iPad in particular -
>>> Safari for iPad has finally been enhanced with the features I want to
>>> make it usable), and I even edit sets to pass to friends over e-mail as
>>> collections of links.  Very, *very* handy once you learn what you can do
>>> with that file.
>>
>> If "Firefox Home" is available for the iPad, you can use that +
>> SeaMonkey Sync instead of manual export ;-)
>>
> 
> Again, no joy.  It looks optimized for iPhone - which means I'd have to
> use the iPad built in 2X zoom and live with crappy display in my
> browser.  It also looks like a "note taker" and not really a browser.
> Plus I would never use Firefox in lieu of SM...I'd use Safari.  Opera
> Mini would probably be more to my liking, but then I'd be in the same
> boat as I am now.

I know this was said elsewhere, but Firefox Home is not a browser and is
merely a program for syncing the Browser Data between your browser and
your iOS device. There is work being done on a tablet version of it
iirc, fwiw.

Regarding your "cloud service" concerns, I ask why? and provide a few
forethought reasons why you may not need to worry:
* Sync data is encrypted on your client before any data is sent to the
server, using a key that the server has no knowledge of. -- thus even
someone who could GET your data off the server itself can't do anything
with it, except you.
*If that still bothers you, you have the option of setting up your own
sync server and pointing SeaMonkey and your other sync devices at that
server, so your data remains only in your possession.

> Surprised though...given the SM team's outrage and upset at my vigorous
> requests for an iOS version of SM I expected I'd never see any such
> product for iOS.  But much as I figured, it *can* and *has* been done,
> or at least started - kudos to the Firefox team!  Hope they finish the
> job and put out an iPad optimized version.

Overall we would love to have the manpower to do a mobile offering, the
fact though is that we don't.

All that said if import/export works for you and you like the added
work, no problem... I just don't recommend it as a common practice, nor
do I plan to approve any work to make it such.

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Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Rufus]

MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 25/01/2012 00:24, Rufus told the world:


Again, no joy.  It looks optimized for iPhone - which means I'd have to
use the iPad built in 2X zoom and live with crappy display in my
browser.  It also looks like a "note taker" and not really a browser.
Plus I would never use Firefox in lieu of SM...I'd use Safari.  Opera
Mini would probably be more to my liking, but then I'd be in the same
boat as I am now.

Surprised though...given the SM team's outrage and upset at my vigorous
requests for an iOS version of SM I expected I'd never see any such
product for iOS.  But much as I figured, it *can* and *has* been done,
or at least started - kudos to the Firefox team!  Hope they finish the
job and put out an iPad optimized version.


Firefox Home, from what I understand, is not a browser and does not
pretend to be one. It's an utility to sync settings (bookmarks, mostly,
but perhaps passwords and history too) between Safari and the Firefox
Sync service. Or perhaps it works more like a launcher, keeping a
separate set of bookmarks and invoking Safari. I wouldn't know, I don't
use iOS.



That was the impression I got - it looks like a way to take "web notes" 
and put them on your iPhone.  Still, it's also not optimized for the 
iPad's larger display.



What the previous poster suggested is that you use Firefox Sync to keep
a copy of your bookmarks "on the cloud" (once set up, it works
automatically -- you don't have to remember to resync), and use Firefox
Home to copy those to Safari on your Ipad.

There has been some talk of doing an iOS version of Firefox -- but
apparently it would be something similar to Opera Mini, that is, a
"browser" that does not have its own rendering engine, using instead a
proxy server for that.



That's still not as easy as just exporting my SM Bookmarks, importing 
them into Safari, and then synching my iPad via iTunes as it was 
designed to operate - without relying on the cloud (I keep cloud 
services turned off and don't use it).  And now that iOS 5 will let me 
synch my iPad over wifi without plugging into USB it's even better.  Not 
to mention that I can even keep the imports in a dated folder in Safari 
so I can know exactly when I last imported what.


Really, export/import of Bookmarks really isn't a big deal and is also a 
very convenient way to share links via e-mail, etc. as an HTML document. 
 Particularly since I do use Safari on OS X on occasion - so 
import/export works well for what I do and how I do it.


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Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[MCBastos]

Interviewed by CNN on 25/01/2012 00:24, Rufus told the world:

> Again, no joy.  It looks optimized for iPhone - which means I'd have to 
> use the iPad built in 2X zoom and live with crappy display in my 
> browser.  It also looks like a "note taker" and not really a browser. 
> Plus I would never use Firefox in lieu of SM...I'd use Safari.  Opera 
> Mini would probably be more to my liking, but then I'd be in the same 
> boat as I am now.
> 
> Surprised though...given the SM team's outrage and upset at my vigorous 
> requests for an iOS version of SM I expected I'd never see any such 
> product for iOS.  But much as I figured, it *can* and *has* been done, 
> or at least started - kudos to the Firefox team!  Hope they finish the 
> job and put out an iPad optimized version.

Firefox Home, from what I understand, is not a browser and does not
pretend to be one. It's an utility to sync settings (bookmarks, mostly,
but perhaps passwords and history too) between Safari and the Firefox
Sync service. Or perhaps it works more like a launcher, keeping a
separate set of bookmarks and invoking Safari. I wouldn't know, I don't
use iOS.

What the previous poster suggested is that you use Firefox Sync to keep
a copy of your bookmarks "on the cloud" (once set up, it works
automatically -- you don't have to remember to resync), and use Firefox
Home to copy those to Safari on your Ipad.

There has been some talk of doing an iOS version of Firefox -- but
apparently it would be something similar to Opera Mini, that is, a
"browser" that does not have its own rendering engine, using instead a
proxy server for that.

-- 
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Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Rufus]

Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:

Rufus wrote:


I must import/export Bookmarks files at least twice a week - to share
them between installs on different machines (my iPad in particular -
Safari for iPad has finally been enhanced with the features I want to
make it usable), and I even edit sets to pass to friends over e-mail as
collections of links.  Very, *very* handy once you learn what you can do
with that file.


If "Firefox Home" is available for the iPad, you can use that +
SeaMonkey Sync instead of manual export ;-)



Again, no joy.  It looks optimized for iPhone - which means I'd have to 
use the iPad built in 2X zoom and live with crappy display in my 
browser.  It also looks like a "note taker" and not really a browser. 
Plus I would never use Firefox in lieu of SM...I'd use Safari.  Opera 
Mini would probably be more to my liking, but then I'd be in the same 
boat as I am now.


Surprised though...given the SM team's outrage and upset at my vigorous 
requests for an iOS version of SM I expected I'd never see any such 
product for iOS.  But much as I figured, it *can* and *has* been done, 
or at least started - kudos to the Firefox team!  Hope they finish the 
job and put out an iPad optimized version.


What has happened in the meantime is that iOS Safari has become what I 
want in all but the exception of being able to save a Home page - but I 
can get around that with Tabs; I just leave two open and use one as my 
"home".  I don't even use Atomic on my iPad anymore, though I keep it 
around.


So, what I do is export/import my SM Bookmarks into Lion Safari and then 
synch Safari with my iPad over wifi - which is more straightforward than 
synching Bookmarks via a web-based server with Atomic.  This works very 
nicely, and it gives me another way to work around sites I can't get 
into with SM because of poor browser sniffing.  Plus spoofing is built 
into Safari if you enable Developer mode/tools.  So I don't mind doing 
it this way.


And as I have multiple Macs I've tended to do the same with them too.

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Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Justin Wood (Callek)]

Rufus wrote:
> 
> I must import/export Bookmarks files at least twice a week - to share
> them between installs on different machines (my iPad in particular -
> Safari for iPad has finally been enhanced with the features I want to
> make it usable), and I even edit sets to pass to friends over e-mail as
> collections of links.  Very, *very* handy once you learn what you can do
> with that file.

If "Firefox Home" is available for the iPad, you can use that +
SeaMonkey Sync instead of manual export ;-)

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Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Rufus]

Jens Hatlak wrote:

Rufus wrote:

...OK - I found it. New trick to how the Bookmarks Manager is
implemented, I guess. Or something I've never used with SM because I
always just work with the raw file. The Toolbar not following the
Bookmarks Manager window was what was throwing me.

Something maybe the SM UI/UE folks should consider...


I don't think that's something worth pursuing. Import/Export is not
something a user is supposed to do regularly, so why have it in multiple
places, especially the Bookmarks menu or button? I think the Bookmarks
Manager is the correct place to have it. If there will ever be a central
place for import/export (like for Thunderbird and different browsers),
it should also be there, though. For example, Firefox trunk recently
received support for importing from Firefox profiles in addition to
Safari and Chrome (none of which SeaMonkey supports yet).

Greetings,

Jens



I must import/export Bookmarks files at least twice a week - to share 
them between installs on different machines (my iPad in particular - 
Safari for iPad has finally been enhanced with the features I want to 
make it usable), and I even edit sets to pass to friends over e-mail as 
collections of links.  Very, *very* handy once you learn what you can do 
with that file.


What I used to do was just move the Bookmarks file from my most heavily 
used machine around by drag/drop, copy/paste, or opening the file in a 
browser and dragging links from the browser to where I wanted them in 
the Bookmarks Sidebar Tab.  But now that the SM team has seen fit to 
change the file structure of how Bookmarks are stored I'm going to find 
myself Exporting/Importing nearly twice weekly to share/synch links with 
my iPad and Macbook Pro.


I don't mind doing that, but the option should be far more obvious - 
either contained within the Bookmarks Manager window, or via a 
contextual menu.  The contextual menu presentation sounds quite 
intuitive, I think.


...and fix those crappy small dialog buttons.

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Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Rufus]

Daniel wrote:

Rufus wrote:

Rufus wrote:

Larry S. wrote:

Michael Lueck wrote:

Rufus wrote:

I went looking for an option like that (which is what I'd expected to
find and be able to use) and it isn't there. There isn't any option
for Tools under Bookmarks, nor is there an option for Import
under Tools. I can't find an Import (or Export) option of any kind
under any of the Menus


Per the official binary build of 2.6.1 for Linux:

Window \ Address Book

Once there

Tools \ Import...
Tools \ Export...


In XP SP3 SM 2.6.1:
Bookmarks>Manage Bookmarks>Tools>Import, Export, etc.
Perhaps Linux is different?
Larry


That is where I would expect the options, and they are not there for Mac
OS X. Can't find them *anywhere*...



OK - I found it. New trick to how the Bookmarks Manager is
implemented, I guess. Or something I've never used with SM because I
always just work with the raw file. The Toolbar not following the
Bookmarks Manager window was what was throwing me.

Something maybe the SM UI/UE folks should consider...



So, for the benefit of all the other Mac users here, where did you find
it, Rufus??



When you open the Manage Bookmarks menu selection you get a new window 
for the Bookmarks Manager with no options available to select.  But at 
the top of the screen in the main Menu bar there is a Tools option - 
it's under Tools there; not under the baseline Tools menu.


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Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Jens Hatlak]

Rufus wrote:

...OK - I found it. New trick to how the Bookmarks Manager is
implemented, I guess. Or something I've never used with SM because I
always just work with the raw file. The Toolbar not following the
Bookmarks Manager window was what was throwing me.

Something maybe the SM UI/UE folks should consider...


I don't think that's something worth pursuing. Import/Export is not 
something a user is supposed to do regularly, so why have it in multiple 
places, especially the Bookmarks menu or button? I think the Bookmarks 
Manager is the correct place to have it. If there will ever be a central 
place for import/export (like for Thunderbird and different browsers), 
it should also be there, though. For example, Firefox trunk recently 
received support for importing from Firefox profiles in addition to 
Safari and Chrome (none of which SeaMonkey supports yet).


Greetings,

Jens

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Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Daniel]

Rufus wrote:

Rufus wrote:

Larry S. wrote:

Michael Lueck wrote:

Rufus wrote:

I went looking for an option like that (which is what I'd expected to
find and be able to use) and it isn't there. There isn't any option
for Tools under Bookmarks, nor is there an option for Import
under Tools. I can't find an Import (or Export) option of any kind
under any of the Menus


Per the official binary build of 2.6.1 for Linux:

Window \ Address Book

Once there

Tools \ Import...
Tools \ Export...


In XP SP3 SM 2.6.1:
Bookmarks>Manage Bookmarks>Tools>Import, Export, etc.
Perhaps Linux is different?
Larry


That is where I would expect the options, and they are not there for Mac
OS X. Can't find them *anywhere*...



OK - I found it. New trick to how the Bookmarks Manager is
implemented, I guess. Or something I've never used with SM because I
always just work with the raw file. The Toolbar not following the
Bookmarks Manager window was what was throwing me.

Something maybe the SM UI/UE folks should consider...



So, for the benefit of all the other Mac users here, where did you find 
it, Rufus??


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Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Rufus]

Rufus wrote:

Larry S. wrote:

Michael Lueck wrote:

Rufus wrote:

I went looking for an option like that (which is what I'd expected to
find and be able to use) and it isn't there. There isn't any option
for Tools under Bookmarks, nor is there an option for Import
under Tools. I can't find an Import (or Export) option of any kind
under any of the Menus


Per the official binary build of 2.6.1 for Linux:

Window \ Address Book

Once there

Tools \ Import...
Tools \ Export...


In XP SP3 SM 2.6.1:
Bookmarks>Manage Bookmarks>Tools>Import, Export, etc.
Perhaps Linux is different?
Larry


That is where I would expect the options, and they are not there for Mac
OS X. Can't find them *anywhere*...



...OK - I found it.  New trick to how the Bookmarks Manager is 
implemented, I guess.  Or something I've never used with SM because I 
always just work with the raw file.  The Toolbar not following the 
Bookmarks Manager window was what was throwing me.


Something maybe the SM UI/UE folks should consider...

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Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Rufus]

Larry S. wrote:

Michael Lueck wrote:

Rufus wrote:

I went looking for an option like that (which is what I'd expected to
find and be able to use) and it isn't there. There isn't any option
for Tools under Bookmarks, nor is there an option for Import
under Tools. I can't find an Import (or Export) option of any kind
under any of the Menus


Per the official binary build of 2.6.1 for Linux:

Window \ Address Book

Once there

Tools \ Import...
Tools \ Export...


In XP SP3 SM 2.6.1:
Bookmarks>Manage Bookmarks>Tools>Import, Export, etc.
Perhaps Linux is different?
Larry


That is where I would expect the options, and they are not there for Mac 
OS X.  Can't find them *anywhere*...


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Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Larry S.]

Michael Lueck wrote:

Rufus wrote:

I went looking for an option like that (which is what I'd expected to
find and be able to use) and it isn't there. There isn't any option
for Tools under Bookmarks, nor is there an option for Import
under Tools. I can't find an Import (or Export) option of any kind
under any of the Menus


Per the official binary build of 2.6.1 for Linux:

Window \ Address Book

Once there

Tools \ Import...
Tools \ Export...


In XP SP3 SM 2.6.1:
Bookmarks>Manage Bookmarks>Tools>Import, Export, etc.
Perhaps Linux is different?
Larry
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Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Rufus]

Michael Lueck wrote:

Rufus wrote:

I went looking for an option like that (which is what I'd expected to
find and be able to use) and it isn't there. There isn't any option
for Tools under Bookmarks, nor is there an option for Import
under Tools. I can't find an Import (or Export) option of any kind
under any of the Menus


Per the official binary build of 2.6.1 for Linux:

Window \ Address Book

Once there

Tools \ Import...
Tools \ Export...



That lets me Import or Export Mail information and settings (which look 
to have transferred correctly from my old Profile) but not Bookmarks.


Besides, that would be a pretty odd Menu location to put a Bookmark 
Manager...I could see it in a way, but it would be odd.


No joy...no Bookmarks Import/Export for me on a Mac with 2.6.1.  Where, 
O where, has my feature set gone?..


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Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Michael Lueck]

Rufus wrote:

I went looking for an option like that (which is what I'd expected to find and 
be able to use) and it isn't there. There isn't any option for Tools under 
Bookmarks, nor is there an option for Import
under Tools. I can't find an Import (or Export) option of any kind under any of 
the Menus


Per the official binary build of 2.6.1 for Linux:

Window \ Address Book

Once there

Tools \ Import...
Tools \ Export...

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Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Rufus]

Michael Gordon wrote:

Rufus wrote:

Ok...so I got a new Mac Mini and duplicated my SM 2.0.14 installation on
it and as happy...until I figured I'd try the latest. Installed 2.1
first and all was well - until I tried to go with anything past that to
get to 2.6.1. Biggest issue - no Bookmarks, no Bookmark import/export.

Now all of my Bookmarks are gone, and it seems like there's no way to
import them from the HTML file of my previous Profile. If there is a
way, I can't find it...I don't see any selection for import or export of
Bookmarks as was touted.

I've got no idea about my Passwords, but it looks like they all
transferred. Time will tell. I've wiped my "upgraded" installation and
gone back to 2.0.14 three times already tonight. Next time I do that I
think I'll stay with 2.0.14. Or move onto Safari...

...and BTW - little interface buttons on a big screen display like a 55"
TV are an even bigger PITA than on my laptop.



Rufus,

Did you try Bookmarks/Tools/Import HTML?

Michael G



I went looking for an option like that (which is what I'd expected to 
find and be able to use) and it isn't there.  There isn't any option for 
Tools under Bookmarks, nor is there an option for Import under Tools.  I 
can't find an Import (or Export) option of any kind under any of the 
Menus...deal-breaker for me, unless I have to do something I haven't 
done to enable these options.


I guess I should also mention I'm using the Mac version of SM 2.6.1 on a 
Mac Mini...I won't be updating any of my other machines anytime soon, if 
ever.


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Re: SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Michael Gordon]

Rufus wrote:

Ok...so I got a new Mac Mini and duplicated my SM 2.0.14 installation on
it and as happy...until I figured I'd try the latest. Installed 2.1
first and all was well - until I tried to go with anything past that to
get to 2.6.1. Biggest issue - no Bookmarks, no Bookmark import/export.

Now all of my Bookmarks are gone, and it seems like there's no way to
import them from the HTML file of my previous Profile. If there is a
way, I can't find it...I don't see any selection for import or export of
Bookmarks as was touted.

I've got no idea about my Passwords, but it looks like they all
transferred. Time will tell. I've wiped my "upgraded" installation and
gone back to 2.0.14 three times already tonight. Next time I do that I
think I'll stay with 2.0.14. Or move onto Safari...

...and BTW - little interface buttons on a big screen display like a 55"
TV are an even bigger PITA than on my laptop.



Rufus,

Did you try Bookmarks/Tools/Import HTML?

Michael G

--
Armadillo Web Development
www.armadilloweb.com

Cell: 903.244.3644

Opening your Door to Opportunity
and inviting the world to walk through.

Character is doing the right thing...
Even when no one is watching...

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SM 2.6.1...not pleased...

[Rufus]

Ok...so I got a new Mac Mini and duplicated my SM 2.0.14 installation on 
it and as happy...until I figured I'd try the latest.  Installed 2.1 
first and all was well - until I tried to go with anything past that to 
get to 2.6.1.  Biggest issue - no Bookmarks, no Bookmark import/export.


Now all of my Bookmarks are gone, and it seems like there's no way to 
import them from the HTML file of my previous Profile.  If there is a 
way, I can't find it...I don't see any selection for import or export of 
Bookmarks as was touted.


I've got no idea about my Passwords, but it looks like they all 
transferred.  Time will tell.  I've wiped my "upgraded" installation and 
gone back to 2.0.14 three times already tonight.  Next time I do that I 
think I'll stay with 2.0.14.  Or move onto Safari...


...and BTW - little interface buttons on a big screen display like a 55" 
TV are an even bigger PITA than on my laptop.


--
 - Rufus
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