Re: Future of Thunderbird / Seamonkey mail module

[Gerry Hickman]

David E. Ross wrote:

There are other differences.  I think the user interface for SeaMonkey
is far superior to the UI for Firefox.  Also, some user tailoring
capabilities that have been removed from Firefox still exist in SeaMonkey.


Although many people use web based email (cloud based email), I'd say 
SeaMonkey is more important than ever for those who want to continue to 
use POP3, especially if Mozilla drop Thuderbird.


--
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Re: Future of Thunderbird / Seamonkey mail module

[Mason83]

On 05/12/2015 21:59, S Slicer wrote:
> Mason83 wrote:
>> Mozilla Wants To Split Off Its Thunderbird Email/Chat Client, Says Mitchell 
>> Baker Memo
>> http://techcrunch.com/2015/11/30/thunderbird-flies-away-from-mozilla/
>>
> The main difference between FireFox and SeaMonkey, is that SeaMonkey 
> bundles the e-mail program.  So, why would they drop the e-mail program 
> from SeaMonkey?

If Mozilla drops TB, FF and TB will diverge, making the integration
of the two programs much more complicated for SM devs.

Regards.
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Re: Future of Thunderbird / Seamonkey mail module

[David E. Ross]

On 12/5/2015 12:59 PM, S Slicer wrote:
> Mason83 wrote:
>> Mozilla Wants To Split Off Its Thunderbird Email/Chat Client, Says Mitchell 
>> Baker Memo
>> http://techcrunch.com/2015/11/30/thunderbird-flies-away-from-mozilla/
>>
> The main difference between FireFox and SeaMonkey, is that SeaMonkey 
> bundles the e-mail program.  So, why would they drop the e-mail program 
> from SeaMonkey?
> 

There are other differences.  I think the user interface for SeaMonkey
is far superior to the UI for Firefox.  Also, some user tailoring
capabilities that have been removed from Firefox still exist in SeaMonkey.

-- 
David E. Ross

The Crimea is Putin's Sudetenland.
The Ukraine will be Putin's Czechoslovakia.
See .
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Future of Thunderbird / Seamonkey mail module

[Mason83]

Mozilla Wants To Split Off Its Thunderbird Email/Chat Client, Says Mitchell 
Baker Memo
http://techcrunch.com/2015/11/30/thunderbird-flies-away-from-mozilla/
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Re: Future of Thunderbird / Seamonkey mail module

[WaltS48]

On 12/03/2015 05:12 AM, Mason83 wrote:

Mozilla Wants To Split Off Its Thunderbird Email/Chat Client, Says Mitchell 
Baker Memo
http://techcrunch.com/2015/11/30/thunderbird-flies-away-from-mozilla/



Old news.

New news.


These discussions are at a very early stage. Finding the right solution 
requires some effort. This is Mozilla focusing on a more forward looking path, 
one aimed at longer term stability rather than continuing the status quo.




What does it all mean for SeaMonkey? Someone should ask Ms. Baker.

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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[Daniel]

Robert Kaiser wrote:

Daniel schrieb:

With reference to SeaMonkey, what is Kilimanjaro??


It actually has practically no relation to SeaMonkey, it's more about
Firefox (actually all of Firefox OS, Firefox for Android and Firefox for
desktop, as well as the services surrounding them).

Robert Kaiser


But s much of FF changes make it into SM, so you (I) never know!!

--
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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[Daniel]

Robert Kaiser wrote:

WLS schrieb:

Q: When do we plan to reach Kilimanjaro?

A: Our proposed target date for this event is September 2012.


That's outdated (should be corrected). It's unclear right now when the
full Kilimanjaro event will/can be reached. The focus right now is to
get the first step on that way, dubbed Basecamp, which is everything
needed for the launch of the first devices with Firefox OS somewhere
around the turn of the year.

Robert Kaiser



When I saw WLS's reference to Kilimanjaro, I thought he was referring 
to the African mountain, but now I'm of the opinion that it might be a 
project name, however a quick search on SeaMonkey's home page gave me 
nothing, so...


With reference to SeaMonkey, what is Kilimanjaro??

--
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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[WLS]

On 07/11/2012 05:46 AM, Daniel wrote:
 Robert Kaiser wrote:
 WLS schrieb:
 Q: When do we plan to reach Kilimanjaro?

 A: Our proposed target date for this event is September 2012.

 That's outdated (should be corrected). It's unclear right now when the
 full Kilimanjaro event will/can be reached. The focus right now is to
 get the first step on that way, dubbed Basecamp, which is everything
 needed for the launch of the first devices with Firefox OS somewhere
 around the turn of the year.

 Robert Kaiser

 
 When I saw WLS's reference to Kilimanjaro, I thought he was referring
 to the African mountain, but now I'm of the opinion that it might be a
 project name, however a quick search on SeaMonkey's home page gave me
 nothing, so...
 
 With reference to SeaMonkey, what is Kilimanjaro??
 

I guess you missed the links in WLS previous post.

Here is the home page.

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Kilimanjaro

The Kilimanjaro Event is an initiative to bring Mozilla projects
(Firefox on desktop and mobile, Marketplace, Persona, and B2G) together
in one integrated experience. It is an opportunity for our entire
community to focus on products and features which are most important to
Mozilla's mission of an open internet and web platform. 

-- 
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Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120619 Thunderbird/14.0
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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[Daniel]

WLS wrote:

On 07/11/2012 05:46 AM, Daniel wrote:

Robert Kaiser wrote:

WLS schrieb:

Q: When do we plan to reach Kilimanjaro?

A: Our proposed target date for this event is September 2012.


That's outdated (should be corrected). It's unclear right now when the
full Kilimanjaro event will/can be reached. The focus right now is to
get the first step on that way, dubbed Basecamp, which is everything
needed for the launch of the first devices with Firefox OS somewhere
around the turn of the year.

Robert Kaiser



When I saw WLS's reference to Kilimanjaro, I thought he was referring
to the African mountain, but now I'm of the opinion that it might be a
project name, however a quick search on SeaMonkey's home page gave me
nothing, so...

With reference to SeaMonkey, what is Kilimanjaro??



I guess you missed the links in WLS previous post.

Here is the home page.

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Kilimanjaro

The Kilimanjaro Event is an initiative to bring Mozilla projects
(Firefox on desktop and mobile, Marketplace, Persona, and B2G) together
in one integrated experience. It is an opportunity for our entire
community to focus on products and features which are most important to
Mozilla's mission of an open internet and web platform. 



O.k., thanks for that.

And yes, I checked the post where you (WLS) responded to KaiRo, but 
didn't go back to your post that KaiRo replied to!


--
Daniel


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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[Robert Kaiser]

Daniel schrieb:

With reference to SeaMonkey, what is Kilimanjaro??


It actually has practically no relation to SeaMonkey, it's more about 
Firefox (actually all of Firefox OS, Firefox for Android and Firefox for 
desktop, as well as the services surrounding them).


Robert Kaiser
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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[PhillipJones]

Robert Kaiser wrote:

Daniel schrieb:

With reference to SeaMonkey, what is Kilimanjaro??


It actually has practically no relation to SeaMonkey, it's more about
Firefox (actually all of Firefox OS, Firefox for Android and Firefox for
desktop, as well as the services surrounding them).

Robert Kaiser


You should be creating a version for iPhone iPad as well.

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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[Robert Kaiser]

WLS schrieb:

Q: When do we plan to reach Kilimanjaro?

A: Our proposed target date for this event is September 2012.


That's outdated (should be corrected). It's unclear right now when the 
full Kilimanjaro event will/can be reached. The focus right now is to 
get the first step on that way, dubbed Basecamp, which is everything 
needed for the launch of the first devices with Firefox OS somewhere 
around the turn of the year.


Robert Kaiser

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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[WLS]

On 07/10/2012 10:49 AM, Robert Kaiser wrote:
 WLS schrieb:
 Q: When do we plan to reach Kilimanjaro?

 A: Our proposed target date for this event is September 2012.
 
 That's outdated (should be corrected). It's unclear right now when the
 full Kilimanjaro event will/can be reached. The focus right now is to
 get the first step on that way, dubbed Basecamp, which is everything
 needed for the launch of the first devices with Firefox OS somewhere
 around the turn of the year.
 
 Robert Kaiser
 

Thanks for that update.

The general point, I think, is the idea that the web is the platform,
and not the desktop.

-- 
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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[Robert Kaiser]

WLS schrieb:

The general point, I think, is the idea that the web is the platform,
and not the desktop.


Yes, mostly. I'd say it though as The web is the platform - on the 
desktop as well as mobile, rather than native applications.


After all, the web is on the desktop as well (and web apps run there 
with our web runtime in a way that they look like native but actually 
are using web technologies). :)


Robert Kaiser

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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[Rick Merrill]

BIll Spikowski wrote:

NoOp wrote:

I wonder what affect this will have on the SeaMonkey email client:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/06/so-thats-it-for-thunderbird/
http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2012/07/06/thunderbird-stability-and-community-innovation/
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model
Mozilla is focusing a lot of its efforts towards important web and
mobile projects, while Thunderbird remains a pure desktop only email
client. We have come to the conclusion that continued innovation on
Thunderbird is not a priority for Mozilla and that the most critical
needs for the product are on-going security and stability. In fact, it
is quite possible that Thunderbird is already pretty much what its users
want and there is not a high demand for innovation in this field.



I agree that the Seamonkey email client is already pretty much what
its users want -- but that doesn't mean we wouldn't want something
even better, or at least have confidence that we won't be losing a
familiar tool that so many of us depend on so heavily all day, every day.

I've fallen completely for the Sync feature, and have been dreaming
about being able to Sync address books across my computers. It's quite
a shock to hear the opposite, that the Mozilla folks are about to
abandon further development of Thunderbird, and by extension Seamonkey
too.

The idea that webmail is clearly superior is incredibly absurd! I'm
glad it works for lots of other folks (though I suspect mainly because
they don't realize there are superior alternatives). I use webmail
often, and hate every minute of it




Suppose you had browser-based email whose interface looked and worked like the 
SeaMonkey mail client? Surely you wouldn't hate that!-)



The big advantage of such a system would be that it makes your address
book and bookmarks available to you from any of your computers.



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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[BIll Spikowski]

Rick Merrill wrote:
 BIll Spikowski wrote:
 NoOp wrote:
 I wonder what affect this will have on the SeaMonkey email client:

 http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/06/so-thats-it-for-thunderbird/
 http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2012/07/06/thunderbird-stability-and-community-innovation/

 https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model

 Mozilla is focusing a lot of its efforts towards important web and
 mobile projects, while Thunderbird remains a pure desktop only email
 client. We have come to the conclusion that continued innovation on
 Thunderbird is not a priority for Mozilla and that the most critical
 needs for the product are on-going security and stability. In fact, it
 is quite possible that Thunderbird is already pretty much what its
 users
 want and there is not a high demand for innovation in this field.


 I agree that the Seamonkey email client is already pretty much what
 its users want -- but that doesn't mean we wouldn't want something
 even better, or at least have confidence that we won't be losing a
 familiar tool that so many of us depend on so heavily all day, every
 day.

 I've fallen completely for the Sync feature, and have been dreaming
 about being able to Sync address books across my computers. It's quite
 a shock to hear the opposite, that the Mozilla folks are about to
 abandon further development of Thunderbird, and by extension Seamonkey
 too.

 The idea that webmail is clearly superior is incredibly absurd! I'm
 glad it works for lots of other folks (though I suspect mainly because
 they don't realize there are superior alternatives). I use webmail
 often, and hate every minute of it

 
 
 Suppose you had browser-based email whose interface looked and worked
 like the SeaMonkey mail client? Surely you wouldn't hate that!-)
  
 The big advantage of such a system would be that it makes your address
 book and bookmarks available to you from any of your computers.

That's why I like the new Sync feature, even though it doesn't (yet?)
include the address book.

Your idea would help a lot, but my e-mail archives are an invaluable
treasure to my business and I would NEVER trust their long-term
storage to the cloud, or to anyone else's email servers.

I'll admit that my personal system using Seamonkey is cumbersome (POP
at my office to permanently store emails, and IMAP on my laptop so I
can read and respond to emails comfortably while traveling without
duplicating their storage), but I sure haven't figured out any other
system that would work for me! Yes, I'm one of those people who would
pay for continuing minor improvements to Seamonkey.


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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[WLS]

On 07/09/2012 11:55 AM, BIll Spikowski wrote:
 Rick Merrill wrote:
 BIll Spikowski wrote:
 NoOp wrote:
 I wonder what affect this will have on the SeaMonkey email client:

 http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/06/so-thats-it-for-thunderbird/
 http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2012/07/06/thunderbird-stability-and-community-innovation/

 https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model

 Mozilla is focusing a lot of its efforts towards important web and
 mobile projects, while Thunderbird remains a pure desktop only email
 client. We have come to the conclusion that continued innovation on
 Thunderbird is not a priority for Mozilla and that the most critical
 needs for the product are on-going security and stability. In fact, it
 is quite possible that Thunderbird is already pretty much what its
 users
 want and there is not a high demand for innovation in this field.


 I agree that the Seamonkey email client is already pretty much what
 its users want -- but that doesn't mean we wouldn't want something
 even better, or at least have confidence that we won't be losing a
 familiar tool that so many of us depend on so heavily all day, every
 day.

 I've fallen completely for the Sync feature, and have been dreaming
 about being able to Sync address books across my computers. It's quite
 a shock to hear the opposite, that the Mozilla folks are about to
 abandon further development of Thunderbird, and by extension Seamonkey
 too.

 The idea that webmail is clearly superior is incredibly absurd! I'm
 glad it works for lots of other folks (though I suspect mainly because
 they don't realize there are superior alternatives). I use webmail
 often, and hate every minute of it



 Suppose you had browser-based email whose interface looked and worked
 like the SeaMonkey mail client? Surely you wouldn't hate that!-)
  
 The big advantage of such a system would be that it makes your address
 book and bookmarks available to you from any of your computers.
 
 That's why I like the new Sync feature, even though it doesn't (yet?)
 include the address book.
 
 Your idea would help a lot, but my e-mail archives are an invaluable
 treasure to my business and I would NEVER trust their long-term
 storage to the cloud, or to anyone else's email servers.
 
 I'll admit that my personal system using Seamonkey is cumbersome (POP
 at my office to permanently store emails, and IMAP on my laptop so I
 can read and respond to emails comfortably while traveling without
 duplicating their storage), but I sure haven't figured out any other
 system that would work for me! Yes, I'm one of those people who would
 pay for continuing minor improvements to Seamonkey.
 
 

SeaMonkey accepts donations.

https://donate.mozilla.org/page/contribute/seamonkey
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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[PhillipJones]

Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP] wrote:

I wonder what affect this will have on the SeaMonkey email client:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/06/so-thats-it-for-thunderbird/
http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2012/07/06/thunderbird-stability-and-community-innovation/
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model
Mozilla is focusing a lot of its efforts towards important web and
mobile projects, while Thunderbird remains a pure desktop only email
client. We have come to the conclusion that continued innovation on
Thunderbird is not a priority for Mozilla and that the most critical
needs for the product are on-going security and stability. In fact, it
is quite possible that Thunderbird is already pretty much what its users
want and there is not a high demand for innovation in this field.

Maybe the 6 week release cycle was driving them crazy?


I am not surprised by this announcement and I think it makes sense.
Really, how far have stand-alone e-mail clients evolved in the past 10
years? Other than adopting SSL / TLS for POP3 and IMAP, there's not
much that really needs to be done to Thunderbird save for security /
bug fixes. Moving development resources towards the browser makes
sense.

- Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP]


As long as they do that. But usually when something like this happens, 
companies as soon as they get the words out of their mouths, two three 
month down the road the application disappears. I've been burnt plenty 
of times when perfectly good software get bought out, They smooze the 
users saying they have nothing to worry about, before the contract is 
signed, then before the ink has dried on the contract for more than 2 
hours, The software disappears.


Based on this experience over the years, I trust companies about as far 
as I can pitch them to keep their word.


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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[PhillipJones]

Rick Merrill wrote:

BIll Spikowski wrote:

NoOp wrote:

I wonder what affect this will have on the SeaMonkey email client:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/06/so-thats-it-for-thunderbird/
http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2012/07/06/thunderbird-stability-and-community-innovation/

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model

Mozilla is focusing a lot of its efforts towards important web and
mobile projects, while Thunderbird remains a pure desktop only email
client. We have come to the conclusion that continued innovation on
Thunderbird is not a priority for Mozilla and that the most critical
needs for the product are on-going security and stability. In fact, it
is quite possible that Thunderbird is already pretty much what its users
want and there is not a high demand for innovation in this field.



I agree that the Seamonkey email client is already pretty much what
its users want -- but that doesn't mean we wouldn't want something
even better, or at least have confidence that we won't be losing a
familiar tool that so many of us depend on so heavily all day, every day.

I've fallen completely for the Sync feature, and have been dreaming
about being able to Sync address books across my computers. It's quite
a shock to hear the opposite, that the Mozilla folks are about to
abandon further development of Thunderbird, and by extension Seamonkey
too.

The idea that webmail is clearly superior is incredibly absurd! I'm
glad it works for lots of other folks (though I suspect mainly because
they don't realize there are superior alternatives). I use webmail
often, and hate every minute of it




Suppose you had browser-based email whose interface looked and worked
like the SeaMonkey mail client? Surely you wouldn't hate that!-)


The big advantage of such a system would be that it makes your address
book and bookmarks available to you from any of your computers.




It won't happen and I don't trust any web based mail.

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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[PhillipJones]

Rick Merrill wrote:

BIll Spikowski wrote:

NoOp wrote:

I wonder what affect this will have on the SeaMonkey email client:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/06/so-thats-it-for-thunderbird/
http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2012/07/06/thunderbird-stability-and-community-innovation/

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model

Mozilla is focusing a lot of its efforts towards important web and
mobile projects, while Thunderbird remains a pure desktop only email
client. We have come to the conclusion that continued innovation on
Thunderbird is not a priority for Mozilla and that the most critical
needs for the product are on-going security and stability. In fact, it
is quite possible that Thunderbird is already pretty much what its users
want and there is not a high demand for innovation in this field.



I agree that the Seamonkey email client is already pretty much what
its users want -- but that doesn't mean we wouldn't want something
even better, or at least have confidence that we won't be losing a
familiar tool that so many of us depend on so heavily all day, every day.

I've fallen completely for the Sync feature, and have been dreaming
about being able to Sync address books across my computers. It's quite
a shock to hear the opposite, that the Mozilla folks are about to
abandon further development of Thunderbird, and by extension Seamonkey
too.

The idea that webmail is clearly superior is incredibly absurd! I'm
glad it works for lots of other folks (though I suspect mainly because
they don't realize there are superior alternatives). I use webmail
often, and hate every minute of it




Suppose you had browser-based email whose interface looked and worked
like the SeaMonkey mail client? Surely you wouldn't hate that!-)


The big advantage of such a system would be that it makes your address
book and bookmarks available to you from any of your computers.




Less Privacy and security.

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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[PhillipJones]

WLS wrote:

On 07/09/2012 11:55 AM, BIll Spikowski wrote:

Rick Merrill wrote:

BIll Spikowski wrote:

NoOp wrote:

I wonder what affect this will have on the SeaMonkey email client:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/06/so-thats-it-for-thunderbird/
http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2012/07/06/thunderbird-stability-and-community-innovation/

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model

Mozilla is focusing a lot of its efforts towards important web and
mobile projects, while Thunderbird remains a pure desktop only email
client. We have come to the conclusion that continued innovation on
Thunderbird is not a priority for Mozilla and that the most critical
needs for the product are on-going security and stability. In fact, it
is quite possible that Thunderbird is already pretty much what its
users
want and there is not a high demand for innovation in this field.



I agree that the Seamonkey email client is already pretty much what
its users want -- but that doesn't mean we wouldn't want something
even better, or at least have confidence that we won't be losing a
familiar tool that so many of us depend on so heavily all day, every
day.

I've fallen completely for the Sync feature, and have been dreaming
about being able to Sync address books across my computers. It's quite
a shock to hear the opposite, that the Mozilla folks are about to
abandon further development of Thunderbird, and by extension Seamonkey
too.

The idea that webmail is clearly superior is incredibly absurd! I'm
glad it works for lots of other folks (though I suspect mainly because
they don't realize there are superior alternatives). I use webmail
often, and hate every minute of it




Suppose you had browser-based email whose interface looked and worked
like the SeaMonkey mail client? Surely you wouldn't hate that!-)

The big advantage of such a system would be that it makes your address
book and bookmarks available to you from any of your computers.


That's why I like the new Sync feature, even though it doesn't (yet?)
include the address book.

Your idea would help a lot, but my e-mail archives are an invaluable
treasure to my business and I would NEVER trust their long-term
storage to the cloud, or to anyone else's email servers.

I'll admit that my personal system using Seamonkey is cumbersome (POP
at my office to permanently store emails, and IMAP on my laptop so I
can read and respond to emails comfortably while traveling without
duplicating their storage), but I sure haven't figured out any other
system that would work for me! Yes, I'm one of those people who would
pay for continuing minor improvements to Seamonkey.




SeaMonkey accepts donations.

https://donate.mozilla.org/page/contribute/seamonkey


Does donating guarantee that Mozilla will listen to users as opposed to 
developers?


Do you take paypal?

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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[PhillipJones]

WLS wrote:

On 07/09/2012 11:55 AM, BIll Spikowski wrote:

Rick Merrill wrote:

BIll Spikowski wrote:

NoOp wrote:

I wonder what affect this will have on the SeaMonkey email client:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/06/so-thats-it-for-thunderbird/
http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2012/07/06/thunderbird-stability-and-community-innovation/

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model

Mozilla is focusing a lot of its efforts towards important web and
mobile projects, while Thunderbird remains a pure desktop only email
client. We have come to the conclusion that continued innovation on
Thunderbird is not a priority for Mozilla and that the most critical
needs for the product are on-going security and stability. In fact, it
is quite possible that Thunderbird is already pretty much what its
users
want and there is not a high demand for innovation in this field.



I agree that the Seamonkey email client is already pretty much what
its users want -- but that doesn't mean we wouldn't want something
even better, or at least have confidence that we won't be losing a
familiar tool that so many of us depend on so heavily all day, every
day.

I've fallen completely for the Sync feature, and have been dreaming
about being able to Sync address books across my computers. It's quite
a shock to hear the opposite, that the Mozilla folks are about to
abandon further development of Thunderbird, and by extension Seamonkey
too.

The idea that webmail is clearly superior is incredibly absurd! I'm
glad it works for lots of other folks (though I suspect mainly because
they don't realize there are superior alternatives). I use webmail
often, and hate every minute of it




Suppose you had browser-based email whose interface looked and worked
like the SeaMonkey mail client? Surely you wouldn't hate that!-)

The big advantage of such a system would be that it makes your address
book and bookmarks available to you from any of your computers.


That's why I like the new Sync feature, even though it doesn't (yet?)
include the address book.

Your idea would help a lot, but my e-mail archives are an invaluable
treasure to my business and I would NEVER trust their long-term
storage to the cloud, or to anyone else's email servers.

I'll admit that my personal system using Seamonkey is cumbersome (POP
at my office to permanently store emails, and IMAP on my laptop so I
can read and respond to emails comfortably while traveling without
duplicating their storage), but I sure haven't figured out any other
system that would work for me! Yes, I'm one of those people who would
pay for continuing minor improvements to Seamonkey.




SeaMonkey accepts donations.

https://donate.mozilla.org/page/contribute/seamonkey


I donated anyway. Now I expect SM to keep the email component alive.

--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it
http://www.phillipmjones.netmailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com
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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[WLS]

On 07/09/2012 02:26 PM, PhillipJones wrote:
 Rick Merrill wrote:
 BIll Spikowski wrote:
 NoOp wrote:
 I wonder what affect this will have on the SeaMonkey email client:

 http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/06/so-thats-it-for-thunderbird/
 http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2012/07/06/thunderbird-stability-and-community-innovation/


 https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model


 Mozilla is focusing a lot of its efforts towards important web and
 mobile projects, while Thunderbird remains a pure desktop only email
 client. We have come to the conclusion that continued innovation on
 Thunderbird is not a priority for Mozilla and that the most critical
 needs for the product are on-going security and stability. In fact, it
 is quite possible that Thunderbird is already pretty much what its
 users
 want and there is not a high demand for innovation in this field.


 I agree that the Seamonkey email client is already pretty much what
 its users want -- but that doesn't mean we wouldn't want something
 even better, or at least have confidence that we won't be losing a
 familiar tool that so many of us depend on so heavily all day, every
 day.

 I've fallen completely for the Sync feature, and have been dreaming
 about being able to Sync address books across my computers. It's quite
 a shock to hear the opposite, that the Mozilla folks are about to
 abandon further development of Thunderbird, and by extension Seamonkey
 too.

 The idea that webmail is clearly superior is incredibly absurd! I'm
 glad it works for lots of other folks (though I suspect mainly because
 they don't realize there are superior alternatives). I use webmail
 often, and hate every minute of it



 Suppose you had browser-based email whose interface looked and worked
 like the SeaMonkey mail client? Surely you wouldn't hate that!-)


 The big advantage of such a system would be that it makes your address
 book and bookmarks available to you from any of your computers.



 It won't happen and I don't trust any web based mail.
 

It is happening, one of the reasons for the focus away from Thunderbird.

Can you say web app?

Q: When do we plan to reach Kilimanjaro?

A: Our proposed target date for this event is September 2012.


Q: What does this mean for Firefox/rapid release schedule?

A: Firefox will continue to have regular release trains. This is simply
an effort to align other Mozilla products as they become integrated
w/Firefox.

from https://wiki.mozilla.org/Kilimanjaro/FAQ

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Kilimanjaro/ProductDraft


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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[JohnW-Mpls]

On Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:55:04 -0400, BIll Spikowski b...@spikowski.com
wrote:

Rick Merrill wrote:
 BIll Spikowski wrote:
 NoOp wrote:
 I wonder what affect this will have on the SeaMonkey email client:

+ + + + + + +

Your idea would help a lot, but my e-mail archives are an invaluable
treasure to my business and I would NEVER trust their long-term
storage to the cloud, or to anyone else's email servers.

I'll admit that my personal system using Seamonkey is cumbersome (POP
at my office to permanently store emails, and IMAP on my laptop so I
can read and respond to emails comfortably while traveling without
duplicating their storage), but I sure haven't figured out any other
system that would work for me! Yes, I'm one of those people who would
pay for continuing minor improvements to Seamonkey.


I'm also a SeaMonkey fan.  Browsers in SM and FireFox are similar to me but
Mail and Address Books in SM are much better than Thunderbird.

Biggest SeaMonkey things for me are: having nice lists/subgroups within
address books and, using the excellent full column layout when selecting
multiple addresses from my address books for an email message.

Some day I may start saving messages in SeaMonkey.  As it is, I'm still
saving messages as text files and storing those (the scheme I started in the
BBS days).

One concern: will SM be affected by switching to IPv6.{grin}

-- 
 JohnW-Mpls
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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[Justin Wood (Callek)]

NoOp wrote:

I wonder what affect this will have on the SeaMonkey email client:


Let me say, that at this time SeaMonkey has no plans to alter *our* 
release cycle, or any support methods or anything of the nature.


And one way or another Thunderbird is continuing to release as normal up 
until at least November this year, after that will be a stability 
release/security cycle for a while after that.


Anything more specific/questions will be hashed out over the comings 
weeks with the relevant stakeholders and the community. I would direct 
everyone who cares to take conversation on that side of things there, 
and discuss.


What comes out of that conversation may end up affecting how we choose 
to handle stuff on the SeaMonkey side, but I want to shy away from what 
ifs, speculation, and even more importantly accusations as to why 
Mozilla is insert-adjective Thunderbird.


I admit I will not be reading any of this thread in this forum, unless 
it is from a SeaMonkey Council member, or a few non-council but 
highly-important core Developers.


When and If we need to have a discussion on the future of SeaMonkey with 
regard to mailnews I will raise that here and we can discuss ad-nausea.


Let me repeat, -- at this time we have no plans to change the release 
cycle/process of SeaMonkey, and we do still intend to ship with 
MailNews as we do today.


--
~Justin Wood (Callek)

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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:


Anything more specific/questions will be hashed out over the coming
weeks with the relevant stakeholders and the community. I would direct
everyone who cares to take conversation on that side of things there,
and discuss.


For those who would like to do so, can you tell us where there is?

Thanks.

--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[Justin Wood (Callek)]

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:


Anything more specific/questions will be hashed out over the coming
weeks with the relevant stakeholders and the community. I would direct
everyone who cares to take conversation on that side of things there,
and discuss.


For those who would like to do so, can you tell us where there is?



See Mitchell's post on the subject, where she adequately describes where 
further discussion should be held, it was linked in first post on this 
thread, but I will link again for clarity:


http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2012/07/06/thunderbird-stability-and-community-innovation/

--
~Justin Wood (Callek)

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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[PhillipJones]

Rufus wrote:

BIll Spikowski wrote:

NoOp wrote:

I wonder what affect this will have on the SeaMonkey email client:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/06/so-thats-it-for-thunderbird/
http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2012/07/06/thunderbird-stability-and-community-innovation/

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model

Mozilla is focusing a lot of its efforts towards important web and
mobile projects, while Thunderbird remains a pure desktop only email
client. We have come to the conclusion that continued innovation on
Thunderbird is not a priority for Mozilla and that the most critical
needs for the product are on-going security and stability. In fact, it
is quite possible that Thunderbird is already pretty much what its users
want and there is not a high demand for innovation in this field.



I agree that the Seamonkey email client is already pretty much what
its users want -- but that doesn't mean we wouldn't want something
even better, or at least have confidence that we won't be losing a
familiar tool that so many of us depend on so heavily all day, every day.



I can only think of one thing I might like to see - an integrated y-enc
decoder...but I could, can, and do live without that. I like what we have!


I've fallen completely for the Sync feature, and have been dreaming
about being able to Sync address books across my computers. It's quite
a shock to hear the opposite, that the Mozilla folks are about to
abandon further development of Thunderbird, and by extension Seamonkey
too.



Sync really hasn't been of any use at all to me, but that doesn't mean
other users don't like it!


The idea that webmail is clearly superior is incredibly absurd! I'm
glad it works for lots of other folks (though I suspect mainly because
they don't realize there are superior alternatives). I use webmail
often, and hate every minute of it



I have to agree - I treat webmail as an emergency resource. Like if
I'm caught out without a device and I have no other alternative that to
walk into a kiosk and send a message out of absolute necessity.


I don't like web mail either.

--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it
http://www.phillipmjones.netmailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com
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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[Paul]

NoOp wrote:

I wonder what affect this will have on the SeaMonkey email client:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/06/so-thats-it-for-thunderbird/
http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2012/07/06/thunderbird-stability-and-community-innovation/
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model
Mozilla is focusing a lot of its efforts towards important web and
mobile projects, while Thunderbird remains a pure desktop only email
client. We have come to the conclusion that continued innovation on
Thunderbird is not a priority for Mozilla and that the most critical
needs for the product are on-going security and stability. In fact, it
is quite possible that Thunderbird is already pretty much what its users
want and there is not a high demand for innovation in this field.

Maybe the 6 week release cycle was driving them crazy?


Someday we will all be walking around staring aimlessly at
our ipads, cruising the web, sending emails, and making a
fortune.  No more need for large spreadsheets, project analyses,
dual monitors, or making tangible items.
Just walk and browse eye candy all day and the bucks roll in.
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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[NoOp]

On 07/08/2012 05:08 PM, MCBastos wrote:
...
 
 Lately, I see quite a lot of people who don't even *know* there are
 things like dedicated e-mail clients. They think of e-mail like a
 message board, or Facebook. In fact, I know at least one person who did

Maybe that's why the Mozilla 'Governance':
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model
decided not to add a 'tb-planning' to this server, and instead elected
to archive (archive only) on Google Groups spit instead? That way they
keep out the non-email riff-raff...
Perhaps they are tossing nntp as well?

I found this amusing:
https://groups.google.com/group/tb-planning/topics
This group is announcement-only. You cannot post messages because you
are not a manager.
Description: A list for Thunderbird-related planning.
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/tb- planning has more details.
So it really is archive only.

 not even have an e-mail account -- she communicates *only* via Facebook
 messages (well, now she has one, if only because FB turned every account
 into an e-mail...). And she's not a kid either -- her oldest son is
 college aged...
 



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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[Rufus]

MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 08/07/2012 18:23, Rufus told the world:

BIll Spikowski wrote:



I agree that the Seamonkey email client is already pretty much what
its users want -- but that doesn't mean we wouldn't want something
even better, or at least have confidence that we won't be losing a
familiar tool that so many of us depend on so heavily all day, every day.



Well, I read the post meaning Users are not really asking for new
features, they want stability and debugging, so we are going to focus on
it and add new features very slowly. And, to be truthful, I can't think
of a much-needed feature for an e-mail client, short of rethinking the
whole concept from the ground up. The last major feature I remember
being integrated into e-mail clients was spam filters, about ten years
ago. Thunderbird added some niceties like auto-configuration of accounts
(which were well received, but it's one of those things you use only
once a year if that) and alternate views of the accounts (no so much, it
was a bit confusing), and tabs (which I'm still trying to figure out if
they make sense for e-mail) but nothing really game-changing.

There's some work being done to offer alternate storage formats for the
messages, but that's one of those things that 90%-plus of users never
think about.  It's almost ready, so it should land before the change in
policy becomes effective.

Differently from web browsers, where the standards are changing fast
(demanding new features and support for new standards) and performance
is a real issue (in e-mail, performance depends mostly on external
factors, like server latency), the e-mail panorama is not changing rapidly.



I can only think of one thing I might like to see - an integrated y-enc
decoder...but I could, can, and do live without that.  I like what we have!



 From what I understand, the main reasons for not offering that are:
1. It's a feature desired by a pretty small set of users -- the ones
that frequent binary newsgroups. And those tend to use specialized
newsreaders anyway.
2. Which would make this a job for an extension, not the main program.
3. And the yEnc spec is horribly broken. Even the yEnc *creator* admits
as much.



And all of that pretty much sums up why I'd like it, as well as why I 
can also live without it...I hate yEnc, but for the times I encounter it 
I'd like to be able to do something with it.  But I won't cry over not 
being able to.



I've fallen completely for the Sync feature, and have been dreaming
about being able to Sync address books across my computers. It's quite
a shock to hear the opposite, that the Mozilla folks are about to
abandon further development of Thunderbird, and by extension Seamonkey
too.


Well, I understand that there is a project going on to overhaul
substantially the address book, due to several important limitations.
It's likely that it will make it better suited to syncing too. But it
was still beginning, I hope that it is not scrapped...



On the Mac OS side, I'd certainly like to see the SM Address Book be 
improved regarding synch/import with my Apple Address Book.  It's 
workable, but the interface could use some attention, I think.



The idea that webmail is clearly superior is incredibly absurd! I'm
glad it works for lots of other folks (though I suspect mainly because
they don't realize there are superior alternatives). I use webmail
often, and hate every minute of it


I don't think anybody in the TB project believes that. But the habit of
using webmail is growing for several reasons, all of which make a lot of
sense for non-technical users:
- People accessing personal accounts from computers they don't own (for
instance, at work) -- it's easier than using, say, Portable Thunderbird.
- People needing to access the same account from two or more machines
(work and home, or desktop and portable) -- it's easier than setting up
IMAP (if your ISP even offers it) or fiddling with the POP settings to
avoid missing messages.
- You don't have to set up anything (see above)
- You don't have to worry about backups (and most people don't care
about long-term archiving of messages anyway)

Dedicated e-mail clients are becoming a niche product for heavy e-mail
users.
Webmail is slow, feature-poor in most cases, there are *still* ISPs who
don't allow you to keep messages archived for very long, terrible if you
have two accounts you want to keep very clearly *separate*. But many
people don't care about those.

Lately, I see quite a lot of people who don't even *know* there are
things like dedicated e-mail clients. They think of e-mail like a
message board, or Facebook. In fact, I know at least one person who did
not even have an e-mail account -- she communicates *only* via Facebook
messages (well, now she has one, if only because FB turned every account
into an e-mail...). And she's not a kid either -- her oldest son is
college aged...



We all need to educate them!

--
 - Rufus

Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[NoOp]

I wonder what affect this will have on the SeaMonkey email client:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/06/so-thats-it-for-thunderbird/
http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2012/07/06/thunderbird-stability-and-community-innovation/
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model
Mozilla is focusing a lot of its efforts towards important web and
mobile projects, while Thunderbird remains a pure desktop only email
client. We have come to the conclusion that continued innovation on
Thunderbird is not a priority for Mozilla and that the most critical
needs for the product are on-going security and stability. In fact, it
is quite possible that Thunderbird is already pretty much what its users
want and there is not a high demand for innovation in this field.

Maybe the 6 week release cycle was driving them crazy?
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Re: Thunderbird? SeaMonkey?

[Rufus]

NoOp wrote:

I wonder what affect this will have on the SeaMonkey email client:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/06/so-thats-it-for-thunderbird/
http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2012/07/06/thunderbird-stability-and-community-innovation/
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model
Mozilla is focusing a lot of its efforts towards important web and
mobile projects, while Thunderbird remains a pure desktop only email
client. We have come to the conclusion that continued innovation on
Thunderbird is not a priority for Mozilla and that the most critical
needs for the product are on-going security and stability. In fact, it
is quite possible that Thunderbird is already pretty much what its users
want and there is not a high demand for innovation in this field.

Maybe the 6 week release cycle was driving them crazy?



...I find *this* off-shoot *far* more interesting...given all the flak I 
took over wanting a version of SM for iPad -


http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/17/mozilla-is-building-a-simple-ipad-browser-called-junior/

So it looks like they're beginning...they have a long way to go to catch 
up. Safari for iOS is pretty nice now - in fact I like it better than 
the OS X version, for what I do and how I use it.


But back to the topic - I think there is a war brewing over traditional 
desktop vs touch panel interfacing and somethings are or are about to be 
casualties of that war.  Just what are the Moz/SM/TB/FF teams going to 
do for Windows 8 and Metro, for example?  What if Metro busts and people 
just stick with Windows 7 - where will that leave them?  And just what 
impact does all that have on OS X Mountain Lion?  How much code are they 
really going to be able to share interface-wise...if any?  I can see 
developers about to be overwhelmed just supporting interfaces - 
something has to give.


From where I sit I'd have to agree that I wouldn't be much interested 
in a touch version of TB after using (or not using) NewsTap on my iPad 
for a bit - NewsTap is very nicely done and interfaced, but roaming 
usenet on my iPad just isn't something I do.  And I also agree that TB 
is pretty much everything I'd like.  So...


--
 - Rufus


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