Re: [Sursound] Patent application: Data structure for HOA
Yes but...why not simply release stuff for mobiles in a generic binaural - skip the uhj altogether? Dr. Peter Lennox School of Technology, Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology University of Derby, UK e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 -Original Message- From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Ronald C.F. Antony Sent: 30 October 2012 18:14 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Patent application: Data structure for HOA On 30 Oct 2012, at 06:24, Peter Lennox p.len...@derby.ac.uk wrote: Am I missing something? - for mobile use, wouldn't B-format to binaural be better than UHJ? Dr Peter Lennox Of course it would. Do you know of a mobile playback device with multi-channel audio support, multi-channel audio market place, and a binaural decoder? Lacking that, putting UHJ encoded stereo into iTunes, Amazon, CD-Baby, etc. is easy. And an audio playback app with UHJ-to-binaural is easy to place in to the Apple/Android app stores. It's not about technical superiority, but about what can be done in the main stream market place. I'm not interested in lab solutions and technology demonstrations, I'm interested in what works for millions of iOS/Android users RIGHT NOW. Ronald ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound _ The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Patent application: Data structure for HOA
Peter Lennox wrote: Yes but...why not simply release stuff for mobiles in a generic binaural - skip the uhj altogether? Please, what is this generic binaural? Everyone has an individual HRTF. If you release binaural recording using a generic HRTF then it will work for some and not for others. There have been attempts to systemise HRTFs, so that you set about four different parameters to produce an individual HRTF, but they never caught on. Regards, Martin -- Martin J Leese E-mail: martin.leese stanfordalumni.org Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/ ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Patent application: Data structure for HOA
This is absolutely true. My late first wife heard stereo as two separate speakers no matter how well the speakers worked for others. She liked mono a lot better. Surround sound was a n ightmare from her viewpoint-- all those speakers playing from different directions each on heard individually. She was a person of almost uncanny hearing acuity and resolution for lack of a better word, able to recognize concert halls on recordings in seconds, and hear inner parts of orchestral music amazingly. Conductors would consult her on balance questions when she came to rehearsals of events where I was playing. Audio manufacturers and makers of recordings may have respected my published judgments--but they were terrified of hers made in private though often I quoted her in my reviews, and the makers were duly gratified if she liked something. It might have been that her unusual acuity was in action in her hearing what is of course really there in stereo--two speakers. Anyway, it is really true that if you wait for something that works for everyone, you will wait a very long time! Robert On Wed, 31 Oct 2012, Richard Dobson wrote: The same is true of stereo too. There are people who just don't hear stereo as stereo. If the response to lack of perfection is always do nothing, nothing will be done. Alternatively, if you use those generic HRTFs, at least ~some~ people will be happy. BTW, the AES has just announced a project AES-X212 to develop a file format for HRTF data; The format will be designed to include source materials from different HRTF databases. See: http://www.aes.org/standards/meetings/new-projects.cfm Richard Dobson On 31/10/2012 16:38, Martin Leese wrote: Peter Lennox wrote: Yes but...why not simply release stuff for mobiles in a generic binaural - skip the uhj altogether? Please, what is this generic binaural? Everyone has an individual HRTF. If you release binaural recording using a generic HRTF then it will work for some and not for others. There have been attempts to systemise HRTFs, so that you set about four different parameters to produce an individual HRTF, but they never caught on. Regards, Martin ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Patent application: Data structure for HOA
If the response to lack of perfection is always do nothing, nothing will be done. Which perfectly explains why we don't have an accepted ambisonic file format. No one is willing to accept limitations... and it is so easy to find limitations in formats. I firmly believe that a successful ambisonic file format can only be achieved with CONSENSUS. The contents of the format itself is irrelevant. So the real challenge is how to *engineer* consensus. BTW, the AES has just announced a project AES-X212 to develop a file format for HRTF data; The format will be designed to include source materials from different HRTF databases. See: ... there's one way to engineer consensus, get a respected institution to take on the responsibility... AES says: If you have information on other standards, or standards projects, with similar scopes to these projects, please contact the AES Standards secretariat. Of course ... all that said ... once such technologies as Google glasses take hold, or Apple starts putting gyroscopes in their ear buds (anyone want to put money on it?) ... ambisonic file formats will either become irrelevant (apps can do things in their own way) or will be standardised by these commercial bodies (which is _not_ a bad thing, because open-source doesn't do consensus, it fractures ... and the sursound community will benefit from a standard, _any_ standard). BTW ... isn't there research that says that the human cognitive systems quickly adapts to non-individualised HRTFs? In other words, just as long as one uses the same HRTFs constantly, then the results will start approaching the effects of individualised HRTFs (I remember reading that somewhere). Etienne ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Patent application: Data structure for HOA
Sent from my mobile phone On 31 Oct 2012, at 07:08, Peter Lennox p.len...@derby.ac.uk wrote: Yes but...why not simply release stuff for mobiles in a generic binaural - skip the uhj altogether? Because you also want to listen to the same piece on your home and car stereo? Ronald -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 5863 bytes Desc: not available URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20121031/3acb9662/attachment.bin ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Patent application: Data structure for HOA
i am wondering if we cannot produce HRTFs the way the first produced spectacle lenses. one needs to look at the range of variations in HRTFs and what actually varies from person to person and produce a dozen or so hrtfs. people can just try them and stick with the one they like. a real time, streaming b-format to binaural programme into which the hrtf can be plugged in is all that will be needed. umashankar i have published my poems. read (or buy) at http://stores.lulu.com/umashankar Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 10:57:53 -0700 From: gre...@math.ucla.edu To: sursound@music.vt.edu Subject: Re: [Sursound] Patent application: Data structure for HOA This is absolutely true. My late first wife heard stereo as two separate speakers no matter how well the speakers worked for others. She liked mono a lot better. Surround sound was a n ightmare from her viewpoint-- all those speakers playing from different directions each on heard individually. She was a person of almost uncanny hearing acuity and resolution for lack of a better word, able to recognize concert halls on recordings in seconds, and hear inner parts of orchestral music amazingly. Conductors would consult her on balance questions when she came to rehearsals of events where I was playing. Audio manufacturers and makers of recordings may have respected my published judgments--but they were terrified of hers made in private though often I quoted her in my reviews, and the makers were duly gratified if she liked something. It might have been that her unusual acuity was in action in her hearing what is of course really there in stereo--two speakers. Anyway, it is really true that if you wait for something that works for everyone, you will wait a very long time! Robert On Wed, 31 Oct 2012, Richard Dobson wrote: The same is true of stereo too. There are people who just don't hear stereo as stereo. If the response to lack of perfection is always do nothing, nothing will be done. Alternatively, if you use those generic HRTFs, at least ~some~ people will be happy. BTW, the AES has just announced a project AES-X212 to develop a file format for HRTF data; The format will be designed to include source materials from different HRTF databases. See: http://www.aes.org/standards/meetings/new-projects.cfm Richard Dobson On 31/10/2012 16:38, Martin Leese wrote: Peter Lennox wrote: Yes but...why not simply release stuff for mobiles in a generic binaural - skip the uhj altogether? Please, what is this generic binaural? Everyone has an individual HRTF. If you release binaural recording using a generic HRTF then it will work for some and not for others. There have been attempts to systemise HRTFs, so that you set about four different parameters to produce an individual HRTF, but they never caught on. Regards, Martin ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20121101/cdb9d789/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
