Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic 'File' Formats

2013-03-31 Thread Sampo Syreeni

On 2012-10-30, Michael Chapman wrote:


There's also the possibility of a new version of Broadcast Wav (BWF).


'Native' CAF also has the possibility for 'W,X,Y,Z' so (again without 
acknowledgment) I suspect that could be counted as a *.amb variant.


From a data representation viewpoint, CAF is the cleanest and least 
problematic kid in town. From the practical viewpoint, BWF is the 
heavyweight, big brother of the 32/64 bit RIFF WAVE (.wav) format. If 
you want to go with the latter, do put out BWF if you can, but also 
accept baseline 64-bit WAV. Do prefer software which does the same.

--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
+358-50-5756111, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound


Re: [Sursound] Sweet spot precise measurement

2013-03-31 Thread Sampo Syreeni

On 2012-11-07, Tommaso Perego wrote:

I was wondering how, knowing the diameter of a speaker octagon, using 
1st or 3rd Order ambisonics, to calculate precisely the dimensions of 
the sweet spot area. Any ideas?


There is no unambiguous sweet spot. Even the arbitrarily cut-off, 
approximative one depends on the precise rig layout and the precise 
decoder being used.


In general, within the traditional Ambisonic theory, what delimits the 
sweet spot is the area within which the energy vector magnitude 
achievable by the rig and the decoder in unison stays above a certain 
bound. That's because the velocity decode used at lower frequencies is 
much easier to get right an sich. I'd say this holds at least for the 
1st to 3rd orders you're talking about, at least if your rig and 
decoding solution is close to any of the regular decodes we already know 
about, and/or has been numerically optimized.


Within those bounds, the sweet spot is a circle (pantophony), or more 
generally an ellipse (the more general 2D case) or even a general 
ellipsoid (the 3D, or periphonic case). Its theoretical size does *not* 
substantially vary above the minimum number of speakers needed for 
spatially unaliased reproduction at any given order. That metric can be 
derived directly from the radial Bessel functions associated with each 
given order, minus any imperfections caused by a discrete rig (minimal 
with a regular rig, much more if you go towards something like the ITU 
setup, and pretty bad in the 3D case where you usually have to omit 
beyond-horizon speakers altogether).


At the same time, the psychoacoustic optimization utilized even by plain 
old ambisonic works over a much larger area. There the criterion becomes 
evermore psychoacoustic the further away you go from the center of the 
rig. What eventually breaks the image, there, is the differential 
distance to your speakers. There it's the absolute distance to the rig 
that matters, unlike with the sweet spot proper. What you'd want to mind 
there is the temporal fusion threshold of incoherent sound sources, 
which is somewhere in the vicinity of 10-40ms. Above that you'll get 
separate arrivals/echo, and even if you approach that to within 20%, 
you'll definitely hear combing.


That sort of stuff then partly (and surprisingly rapidly) goes away at 
2nd to 3rd orders because the rig starts to speak only from the 
direction of the incident sound instead of relying on antiphase signals 
from the other side. But even then these off-centre effects have to be 
calculated out in full if you want to know the true extent of the sweet 
spot: near to rig edge you can still end up with two widely spaced 
speakers crossing the fusion threshold or combing, especially since at 
those higher orders, pretty much nobody can afford a dense right even if 
they can afford high orders, plus pretty much everybody goes to higher 
orders only when they already decided to do wide areas as well.


Finally, those combing artifacts and the like have additional funky 
qualities. That's shown in that when you work with first order, the 
minimum four speakers for pantophony and the minimum six for periphony 
appear to work the best, unless you can go to tens or even hundreds of 
speakers. The reason is that while the basic signal set is thoroughly 
antialiased, a sparse rig still leads to spatial aliasing like combing 
and even acutely perceived multiple arrivals away from the true 
diffraction limited sweet spot. It surfaces that when than happens, the 
fewer arrivals there are, the better it is for our ears, 
psychoacoustically speaking. So, there is a kind of an unintuitive 
Laffer curve working here, as far as speaker numbers go: you need the 
minimum, or sometimes in periphonic work a bit more, but when you go 
beyond that, you'd better be willing to go at last one or two whole 
*magnitudes* beyond it before it sounds even as-good.

--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
+358-50-5756111, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound


Re: [Sursound] Sweet spot precise measurement

2013-03-31 Thread Sampo Syreeni

On 2013-03-31, Sampo Syreeni wrote:


On 2012-11-07, Tommaso Perego wrote:


I was wondering how [...]


(And sorry about this *highly* belated answer. Just got my inbox below a 
thousand posts, most of the kept ones being from this list. It's a bit 
tricky to keep oneself from answering to the dated stuff, especially 
when it's as interesting as this old thread.)

--
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
+358-50-5756111, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound


Re: [Sursound] KEMAR, Neumann, Zwislocki

2013-03-31 Thread len moskowitz

Stefan Schreiber  wrote:

So: Why are we actually < not > doing some "Kunstkopf" recordings with 
mics just outside the ear channels? (I believe nobody does this.)
This is how we recommend recording binaurally with our binaural 
microphones. It works very well, even if you use a real head and not a 
Kunstkopf.



Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
Core Sound LLC
www.core-sound.com
Home of TetraMic
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound


Re: [Sursound] KEMAR, Neumann, Zwislocki

2013-03-31 Thread Justin Bennett

On Mar 31, 2013, at 6:00 PM, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
> 
> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 10:18:56 -0400 (EDT)
> From: len moskowitz 

> 
>> So: Why are we actually < not > doing some "Kunstkopf" recordings with 
>> mics just outside the ear channels? (I believe nobody does this.)
> This is how we recommend recording binaurally with our binaural 
> microphones. It works very well, even if you use a real head and not a 
> Kunstkopf.
> 
> 
> Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
> Core Sound LLC
> www.core-sound.com
> Home of TetraMic

I second this too. I and a few colleagues have worked for ages with DPA 4060
omni's  and also Soundman mics positioned in the (living) pinnae but outside 
the ear canals. 
We make "soundwalks" - headphone-based (artistic) audio tours and have a lot of 
feedback
from audience. I would say maybe only 5% of the audience doesn't appreciate the 
binaural effect.

you can check out www.soundtrackcity.nl which distributes / organises sound 
walks in the Netherlands

I have a fragment of a piece at http://soundscaper.com/andere/docs/beirut.htm
recorded with DPA's. bit of a complex example, walking around an apartment in 
noisy Beirut
with a radio in my hand.

best, Justin


Justin Bennett

jus...@justinbennett.nl

www.justinbennett.nl




-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130331/9cea7d3b/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound