[Sursound] Binaural Via Ambisonic
d VST so I assume you have access to > Logic and can try their binaural decoder? > > It's been a while since I worked with channel based surround but I assume > that by now they may have varying HRTF's... > > Just a thought... > > On Sat, Sep 17, 2022, 8:52 PM Ralph Jones wrote: > >> I?m a composer, not a mathematician, so while I try, I don?t get very far >> at understanding discussions like this. But the subject is of real concern >> for me, because I am currently working in 5.1.4 surround format >> (channel-based, not Atmos) and I would dearly love to find a mac-compatible >> VST plugin that would convincingly render my work in binaural. So, is there >> a plugin that does what Fons describes here? (i.e., given azimuth and >> elevation for each channel, render the signals to binaural convincingly, >> including an impression of elevation for height channels.) >> >> Ralph Jones >> >>> On Sep 13, 2022, at 9:00 AM,Fons Adriaensen wrote: >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 15:59:49 +0200 >>> From: Fons Adriaensen >>> To: sursound@music.vt.edu >>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] about principled rendering of ambisonic to >>> binaural >>> Message-ID: >>> <20220913135949.ugwflytibwa7p...@mail1.linuxaudio.cyso.net> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >>> >>> >> >> [Snip] >> >>> Another question is if for high quality binaural rendering, starting from >>> Ambisonic content is a good idea at all. >>> >>> Simple fact is that if you want really good results you need very high >>> order, and >>> >>> 1. such content isn't available from direct recordings (we don't have >> even >>> 10th order microphpones), so it has to be synthetic, >>> >>> 2. rendering it from an Ambisonic format would be very inefficient. For >>> example for order 20 you'd need 441 convolutions if you assume L/R head >>> symmetry, twice that number if you don't. >>> >>> Compare this to rendering from object encoded content (i.e. mono signals >>> plus directional metadata). You need only two convolutions per object. >>> Starting from a sufficiently dense HRIR set, you can easily generate a >>> new set on a regular grid with a few thousand points, and interpolate >>> them (VBAP style) in real time. This can give you the same resolution >>> as e.g. order 40 Ambisonics at fraction of the complexity. >>> >>> >>> Ciao, >>> >>> -- >>> FA >> >> ___ >> Sursound mailing list >> Sursound@music.vt.edu >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >> > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20220917/acff5f4e/attachment.htm> > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20220918/976b9536/attachment.htm> -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: baltiskweb kopi.png Type: image/png Size: 122901 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20220918/976b9536/attachment.png> -- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 09:10:29 + From: "Picinali, Lorenzo" To: "sursound@music.vt.edu" Subject: Re: [Sursound] about principled rendering of ambisonic to binaural Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Hello, I can advertise our binaural 3D Tune-In Toolkit, which exists also in the form of VST plugin (as well as standalone application, Unity and Javascript wrappers). You can just create one instance of the plugin for every output track, and spatialise that in the position where the loudspeaker should be. We have a version of the plugin with reverb, which is easy to use but rather heavy from the computational point of view, or an anechoic version, with a bus reverb, which is definitely more efficient - in the downloads you will be abl
Re: [Sursound] about principled rendering of ambisonic to binaural
Ralph, If you are looking for direct/object binaural rendering in a VST, I would recommend checking out Anaglyph (http://anaglyph.dalembert.upmc.fr/), a free VST (OSX and Win compatible) from our academic research over the years, highlighting improved externalisation features. Simply provide coordinate (azimuth/elevation/distance) for each track and away you go. -Brian -- Brian FG Katz, Research Director, CNRS Groupe Lutheries - Acoustique – Musique Sorbonne Université, CNRS, UMR 7190, Institut Jean Le Rond ∂'Alembert http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] about principled rendering of ambisonic to binaural
Hello, I can advertise our binaural 3D Tune-In Toolkit, which exists also in the form of VST plugin (as well as standalone application, Unity and Javascript wrappers). You can just create one instance of the plugin for every output track, and spatialise that in the position where the loudspeaker should be. We have a version of the plugin with reverb, which is easy to use but rather heavy from the computational point of view, or an anechoic version, with a bus reverb, which is definitely more efficient - in the downloads you will be able to find a template Reaper project which shows how to setup the anechoic and bus reverb plugins. An example of the functionalities of the Test Application can be found in this video (use headphones when listening) - the VST plugin creates of course the same spatialisation effect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osJQ0Kxv1P0 The Test Application (the one you see in the video above) is available for MacOS, Windows and Linux at the following link: https://github.com/3DTune-In/3dti_AudioToolkit/releases/latest At the link above, you can also download the VST plugin, both for MacOS and Windows, as well as the Unity wrapper. If interested, you can find some details about the 3DTI Toolkit spatial audio implementation in this paper: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0211899 And the open source code is available from the GitHub account: https://github.com/3DTune-In/3dti_AudioToolkit If you have a chance to come around in the London area, we can measure your HRTF so that you can use that for your mixes - just get in touch! best Lorenzo -- Dr Lorenzo Picinali Reader in Audio Experience Design<https://www.axdesign.co.uk/> Dyson School of Design Engineering Imperial College London Dyson Building Imperial College Road South Kensington, SW7 2DB, London E: l.picin...@imperial.ac.uk http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali https://www.axdesign.co.uk/ From: Sursound on behalf of Ralph Jones Sent: 18 September 2022 01:51 To: sursound@music.vt.edu Subject: Re: [Sursound] about principled rendering of ambisonic to binaural *** This email originates from outside Imperial. Do not click on links and attachments unless you recognise the sender. If you trust the sender, add them to your safe senders list https://spam.ic.ac.uk/SpamConsole/Senders.aspx to disable email stamping for this address. *** I’m a composer, not a mathematician, so while I try, I don’t get very far at understanding discussions like this. But the subject is of real concern for me, because I am currently working in 5.1.4 surround format (channel-based, not Atmos) and I would dearly love to find a mac-compatible VST plugin that would convincingly render my work in binaural. So, is there a plugin that does what Fons describes here? (i.e., given azimuth and elevation for each channel, render the signals to binaural convincingly, including an impression of elevation for height channels.) Ralph Jones > On Sep 13, 2022, at 9:00 AM,Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 15:59:49 +0200 > From: Fons Adriaensen > To: sursound@music.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [Sursound] about principled rendering of ambisonic to >binaural > Message-ID: ><20220913135949.ugwflytibwa7p...@mail1.linuxaudio.cyso.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > [Snip] > Another question is if for high quality binaural rendering, starting from > Ambisonic content is a good idea at all. > > Simple fact is that if you want really good results you need very high > order, and > > 1. such content isn't available from direct recordings (we don't have even > 10th order microphpones), so it has to be synthetic, > > 2. rendering it from an Ambisonic format would be very inefficient. For > example for order 20 you'd need 441 convolutions if you assume L/R head > symmetry, twice that number if you don't. > > Compare this to rendering from object encoded content (i.e. mono signals > plus directional metadata). You need only two convolutions per object. > Starting from a sufficiently dense HRIR set, you can easily generate a > new set on a regular grid with a few thousand points, and interpolate > them (VBAP style) in real time. This can give you the same resolution > as e.g. order 40 Ambisonics at fraction of the complexity. > > > Ciao, > > -- > FA ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20220918/54475ea0/attachment.htm> ___
Re: [Sursound] about principled rendering of ambisonic to binaural
I´m also "only" a musician/composer, trying to get wiser..:-) But I do know that VST is not working in Logic - this is AU format only. I would try stuff, and listen. Maybe you could use Reasurroundpan the new surroundplugin in reaper. if U don´t have reaper U can get a 60 days free evaluation (or more) Another plug in I use for listening back is DearVR MONITOR. Penteo can do the same and go directly to Binaural but goes from atmos 5.1.4. Or you can try Flux spat revolution (expensive) There is trial versions of all this plug ins (Spat R is Not a plug in though) Med venlig hilsen/Best regards Søren Bendixen Composer/Sound Designer & stringed instruments player Company: Audiotect Web:audiotect.dk <http://audiotect.dk/> Latest Music and Sounddesign 14 september - ? Sound and Music for New Exhibition at Danish Jewish Museum, Copenhagen. August 2022 - ? Music and sounddesign for the Exhibition "Auf den Spuren einer Königin", at Großraden, Germany 29 april 2022 - february 23 Sounddesign for Neanderthal exhibition at the National History Museum - Copenhagen 22 january - 11 september 2022 Music and sounddesign for "RUS Viking" at Moesgaard Museum In progress Sound and Music for the Exhibition KAOS. Moesgaard Museum. Opens 11 nov. 2022 Recordings for new album :"Musik" by Søren Bendixen.Release fall 2022 > Den 18. sep. 2022 kl. 04.57 skrev David McKevy : > > Ralph you mentioned wanting a Mac based VST so I assume you have access to > Logic and can try their binaural decoder? > > It's been a while since I worked with channel based surround but I assume > that by now they may have varying HRTF's... > > Just a thought... > > On Sat, Sep 17, 2022, 8:52 PM Ralph Jones wrote: > >> I’m a composer, not a mathematician, so while I try, I don’t get very far >> at understanding discussions like this. But the subject is of real concern >> for me, because I am currently working in 5.1.4 surround format >> (channel-based, not Atmos) and I would dearly love to find a mac-compatible >> VST plugin that would convincingly render my work in binaural. So, is there >> a plugin that does what Fons describes here? (i.e., given azimuth and >> elevation for each channel, render the signals to binaural convincingly, >> including an impression of elevation for height channels.) >> >> Ralph Jones >> >>> On Sep 13, 2022, at 9:00 AM,Fons Adriaensen wrote: >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 15:59:49 +0200 >>> From: Fons Adriaensen >>> To: sursound@music.vt.edu >>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] about principled rendering of ambisonic to >>> binaural >>> Message-ID: >>> <20220913135949.ugwflytibwa7p...@mail1.linuxaudio.cyso.net> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >>> >>> >> >> [Snip] >> >>> Another question is if for high quality binaural rendering, starting from >>> Ambisonic content is a good idea at all. >>> >>> Simple fact is that if you want really good results you need very high >>> order, and >>> >>> 1. such content isn't available from direct recordings (we don't have >> even >>> 10th order microphpones), so it has to be synthetic, >>> >>> 2. rendering it from an Ambisonic format would be very inefficient. For >>> example for order 20 you'd need 441 convolutions if you assume L/R head >>> symmetry, twice that number if you don't. >>> >>> Compare this to rendering from object encoded content (i.e. mono signals >>> plus directional metadata). You need only two convolutions per object. >>> Starting from a sufficiently dense HRIR set, you can easily generate a >>> new set on a regular grid with a few thousand points, and interpolate >>> them (VBAP style) in real time. This can give you the same resolution >>> as e.g. order 40 Ambisonics at fraction of the complexity. >>> >>> >>> Ciao, >>> >>> -- >>> FA >> >> ___ >> Sursound mailing list >> Sursound@music.vt.edu >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >> > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20220917/acff5f4e/attachment.htm> > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe her
