Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format
Right on the original question and I don’t want to argue either. Just had a small investigation recently and learned myself it is not an easy to answer question. For instance, on mobile platforms, e.g., iOS, the underlying framework is the same for all browsers and there for codec support is (more or less) independent on the browser. On PC-platforms, Firefox and Chromium-based seems to have a policy not to access OS-functionality for media codecs (with exception for some video codecs). In summary: it is a mess and very dependent on many factors. Very widely supported is the AAC-family, including LC, HE-AACv1 and v2 (hopefully soon xHE-AAC also). //Christof From: Sursound on behalf of Stefan Schreiber Date: Tuesday, 9. May 2023 at 18:39 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format Cristof, I actually agree with you, but: The original question was if Safari supports DD+, “probably”. See also the subject. So Safari does, Edge does on Windows, Chrome probably not. We were “checking” standard browsers. It is next to obvious that you would use DD+ either for surround sound (but AAC codecs and open codecs can do the same, of course), or especially to code Atmos via JOC. > “Again, not as easy as it seems to be at the first glance. > > Hope this helps.” Hope my comments help, as well... There is not much to “argue”, because I took a neutral position. Best, Stefan - Mensagem de Fersch, Christof - Data: Tue, 9 May 2023 16:09:43 + De: "Fersch, Christof" Assunto: Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format Para: Surround Sound discussion group > Hi guys, > > > > Thanks for the investigation! > > > > “Android does not support Dolby codecs.” > > It is true that Dolby codecs are not part of the AOSP codebase. > However, if Android-based phones support Dolby codecs or not is a > different story. For instance, I would assume (but cannot check) > that most Android-based Samsung phones support many Dolby codecs. > > > > Again, not as easy as it seems to be at the first glance. > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > //Christof > > > > > > From: Sursound on behalf of Stefan > Schreiber > > Date: Tuesday, 9. May 2023 at 16:44 > > To: Surround Sound discussion group > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format > > Hello Hector! > > > > These results make a lot of sense, and are what I would expect: > > Android does not support Dolby codecs. > > > > This is no speculation, but specified: > > > > ... -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20230509/7a280328/attachment.htm__;!!HOHtwYw!BLAErhIJROUhHStACSd1fdB3UqBixvyuRv-fKBaKGL4ZgR5P79UVxaRShzPNtGtzxrL7ZwsKFG56X-w9_GLmc185$ > ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound__;!!HOHtwYw!BLAErhIJROUhHStACSd1fdB3UqBixvyuRv-fKBaKGL4ZgR5P79UVxaRShzPNtGtzxrL7ZwsKFG56X-w9_GTcRhK-$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound__;!!HOHtwYw!BLAErhIJROUhHStACSd1fdB3UqBixvyuRv-fKBaKGL4ZgR5P79UVxaRShzPNtGtzxrL7ZwsKFG56X-w9_GTcRhK-$> - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20230509/fb364c4b/attachment.htm> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format
Cristof, I actually agree with you, but: The original question was if Safari supports DD+, “probably”. See also the subject. So Safari does, Edge does on Windows, Chrome probably not. We were “checking” standard browsers. It is next to obvious that you would use DD+ either for surround sound (but AAC codecs and open codecs can do the same, of course), or especially to code Atmos via JOC. “Again, not as easy as it seems to be at the first glance. Hope this helps.” Hope my comments help, as well... There is not much to “argue”, because I took a neutral position. Best, Stefan - Mensagem de Fersch, Christof - Data: Tue, 9 May 2023 16:09:43 + De: "Fersch, Christof" Assunto: Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format Para: Surround Sound discussion group Hi guys, Thanks for the investigation! “Android does not support Dolby codecs.” It is true that Dolby codecs are not part of the AOSP codebase. However, if Android-based phones support Dolby codecs or not is a different story. For instance, I would assume (but cannot check) that most Android-based Samsung phones support many Dolby codecs. Again, not as easy as it seems to be at the first glance. Hope this helps. //Christof From: Sursound on behalf of Stefan Schreiber Date: Tuesday, 9. May 2023 at 16:44 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format Hello Hector! These results make a lot of sense, and are what I would expect: Android does not support Dolby codecs. This is no speculation, but specified: ... -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20230509/7a280328/attachment.htm> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format
Hi guys, Thanks for the investigation! “Android does not support Dolby codecs.” It is true that Dolby codecs are not part of the AOSP codebase. However, if Android-based phones support Dolby codecs or not is a different story. For instance, I would assume (but cannot check) that most Android-based Samsung phones support many Dolby codecs. Again, not as easy as it seems to be at the first glance. Hope this helps. //Christof From: Sursound on behalf of Stefan Schreiber Date: Tuesday, 9. May 2023 at 16:44 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format Hello Hector! These results make a lot of sense, and are what I would expect: Android does not support Dolby codecs. This is no speculation, but specified: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/media/media-formats__;!!HOHtwYw!ESig7XL8V_HBOrEahq_ZxcZqYBz7sE8moN4r1g4UdxKpVq-UINAr-fWsNUcq33fTymXEZolEqLZ5czV3Tr3KTOrt$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/developer.android.com/guide/topics/media/media-formats__;!!HOHtwYw!ESig7XL8V_HBOrEahq_ZxcZqYBz7sE8moN4r1g4UdxKpVq-UINAr-fWsNUcq33fTymXEZolEqLZ5czV3Tr3KTOrt$> (Chrome on Android should show the very same results. ) Interestingly, Android does natively support hevc (video codec), though restricted to level 4.1 (minimum requirement). Best, Stefan - Mensagem de Hector Centeno - Data: Tue, 9 May 2023 08:42:07 -0400 De: Hector Centeno Assunto: Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format Para: Surround Sound discussion group > Hello, > > > > I use Edge on Android and Windows machines. This is what I get on my > > Android device (latest Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra): > > > > Audio codecs > > PCM audio support > > Yes ✔ > > MP3 support > > Yes ✔ > > AAC support > > Yes ✔ > > Dolby Digital support > > No ✘ > > Dolby Digital Plus support > > No ✘ > > Ogg Vorbis support > > Yes ✔ > > Ogg Opus support > > Yes ✔ > > WebM with Vorbis support > > Yes ✔ > > WebM with Opus support > > Yes ✔ > > > > Best, > > Hector Centeno > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 8, 2023, 12:38 p.m. Stefan Schreiber > > wrote: > >> Ammendment: >> >> >> >> “EAC-3 (DD+) is natively supported by Edge and all Safari browsers.” >> >> >> >> I did a fast html5test (.com) on my iPad running on some very old iOS >> >> 13.x (for some stupid reason I can’t update my AirPad Air 2 to version >> >> 15.x, which would be the last supported one; need probably to reset my >> >> Apple ID to “recover” my lost password 來), and even in this outdated >> >> configuration: >> >> >> >> DD+ is definitively supported by mobile Safari, see result list (here >> >> posted in text format, sursound might not like htrml5 text...I hope >> >> there won't be any "optical breakdown"...): >> >> >> >> Audio codecs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> PCM audio support >> >> >> >> No >> >> >> >> MP3 support >> >> >> >> Yes ✔ >> >> >> >> AAC support >> >> >> >> Yes ✔ >> >> >> >> Dolby Digital support >> >> >> >> Yes ✔ >> >> >> >> Dolby Digital Plus support >> >> >> >> Yes ✔ >> >> >> >> Ogg Vorbis support >> >> >> >> No ✘ >> >> >> >> Ogg Opus support >> >> >> >> No ✘ >> >> >> >> WebM with Vorbis support >> >> >> >> No ✘ >> >> >> >> WebM with Opus support >> >> >> >> No ✘ >> >> >> >> I don't think that iOS/iPadOS 16-x would show different results, by the >> >> way. >> >> >> >> As there is no Safari adaptation for Windows, Linux etc., my statement >> >> that any (more or less recent) Safati browser would support DD+ should >> >> be correct. >> >> >> >> Edge: Supports all tested codecs (above) on Win10. (I don't know which >> >> codecs the Edge browsers would support or better "would not support" >> >> if running on other operating systems than Windows, but you can always >> >> test via html5test.com) >> >> >> >> (Maybe this last question is a bit academic anyway... Edge is in the >&g
Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format
Hello Hector! These results make a lot of sense, and are what I would expect: Android does not support Dolby codecs. This is no speculation, but specified: https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/media/media-formats (Chrome on Android should show the very same results. ) Interestingly, Android does natively support hevc (video codec), though restricted to level 4.1 (minimum requirement). Best, Stefan - Mensagem de Hector Centeno - Data: Tue, 9 May 2023 08:42:07 -0400 De: Hector Centeno Assunto: Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format Para: Surround Sound discussion group Hello, I use Edge on Android and Windows machines. This is what I get on my Android device (latest Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra): Audio codecs PCM audio support Yes ✔ MP3 support Yes ✔ AAC support Yes ✔ Dolby Digital support No ✘ Dolby Digital Plus support No ✘ Ogg Vorbis support Yes ✔ Ogg Opus support Yes ✔ WebM with Vorbis support Yes ✔ WebM with Opus support Yes ✔ Best, Hector Centeno On Mon, May 8, 2023, 12:38 p.m. Stefan Schreiber wrote: Ammendment: “EAC-3 (DD+) is natively supported by Edge and all Safari browsers.” I did a fast html5test (.com) on my iPad running on some very old iOS 13.x (for some stupid reason I can’t update my AirPad Air 2 to version 15.x, which would be the last supported one; need probably to reset my Apple ID to “recover” my lost password 來), and even in this outdated configuration: DD+ is definitively supported by mobile Safari, see result list (here posted in text format, sursound might not like htrml5 text...I hope there won't be any "optical breakdown"...): Audio codecs PCM audio support No MP3 support Yes ✔ AAC support Yes ✔ Dolby Digital support Yes ✔ Dolby Digital Plus support Yes ✔ Ogg Vorbis support No ✘ Ogg Opus support No ✘ WebM with Vorbis support No ✘ WebM with Opus support No ✘ I don't think that iOS/iPadOS 16-x would show different results, by the way. As there is no Safari adaptation for Windows, Linux etc., my statement that any (more or less recent) Safati browser would support DD+ should be correct. Edge: Supports all tested codecs (above) on Win10. (I don't know which codecs the Edge browsers would support or better "would not support" if running on other operating systems than Windows, but you can always test via html5test.com) (Maybe this last question is a bit academic anyway... Edge is in the very most cases used as desktop browser for Windows 10/11.) Best, Stefan - - - - I think that mobile Safari (so the Safari version for iOS and iPadOS) should also support DD+ (since iOS 14/iPadOS 14 probably), because Apple Spatial Audio supports DD+/Atmos. I will try to test this. ;-) Otherwise, agreed. Best, Stefan -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20230509/60bb931c/attachment.htm> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format
2023 at 00:41 >> >> >> >> To: Surround Sound discussion group >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format >> >> >> >> Short answer: >> >> >> >> EAC-3 (DD+) is natively supported by Edge and all Safari browsers. >> >> >> >> I really was refering to this one... >> >> >> >> AC-3 patents should have expired by now, but of course this codec is a >> >> >> >> bit old. (And won’t support even 7.1, by the way. The highest channel >> >> >> >> count would be 6.1, and the B channel would be matrixed into 5.1. If >> >> >> >> my memory is correctly working. But probably yes... ;-) >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Stefan >> >> >> >> ... >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20230508/d30442e2/attachment.htm >> > >> ___ >> Sursound mailing list >> Sursound@music.vt.edu >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >> > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20230509/aedc0a7c/attachment.htm> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format
Hello, I use Edge on Android and Windows machines. This is what I get on my Android device (latest Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra): Audio codecs PCM audio support Yes ✔ MP3 support Yes ✔ AAC support Yes ✔ Dolby Digital support No ✘ Dolby Digital Plus support No ✘ Ogg Vorbis support Yes ✔ Ogg Opus support Yes ✔ WebM with Vorbis support Yes ✔ WebM with Opus support Yes ✔ Best, Hector Centeno On Mon, May 8, 2023, 12:38 p.m. Stefan Schreiber wrote: > Ammendment: > > “EAC-3 (DD+) is natively supported by Edge and all Safari browsers.” > > I did a fast html5test (.com) on my iPad running on some very old iOS > 13.x (for some stupid reason I can’t update my AirPad Air 2 to version > 15.x, which would be the last supported one; need probably to reset my > Apple ID to “recover” my lost password 來), and even in this outdated > configuration: > > DD+ is definitively supported by mobile Safari, see result list (here > posted in text format, sursound might not like htrml5 text...I hope > there won't be any "optical breakdown"...): > > Audio codecs > > > > PCM audio support > > No > > MP3 support > > Yes ✔ > > AAC support > > Yes ✔ > > Dolby Digital support > > Yes ✔ > > Dolby Digital Plus support > > Yes ✔ > > Ogg Vorbis support > > No ✘ > > Ogg Opus support > > No ✘ > > WebM with Vorbis support > > No ✘ > > WebM with Opus support > > No ✘ > > I don't think that iOS/iPadOS 16-x would show different results, by the > way. > > As there is no Safari adaptation for Windows, Linux etc., my statement > that any (more or less recent) Safati browser would support DD+ should > be correct. > > Edge: Supports all tested codecs (above) on Win10. (I don't know which > codecs the Edge browsers would support or better "would not support" > if running on other operating systems than Windows, but you can always > test via html5test.com) > > (Maybe this last question is a bit academic anyway... Edge is in the > very most cases used as desktop browser for Windows 10/11.) > > Best, > > Stefan > > - - - - > > > I think that mobile Safari (so the Safari version for iOS and > > iPadOS) should also support DD+ (since iOS 14/iPadOS 14 probably), > > because Apple Spatial Audio supports DD+/Atmos. > > > > I will try to test this. ;-) > > > > Otherwise, agreed. > > > > Best, > > > > Stefan > > > > - Mensagem de Fersch, Christof - > > > > Data: Mon, 8 May 2023 06:01:56 + > > > > De: "Fersch, Christof" > > > > Assunto: Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format > > > > Para: Surround Sound discussion group > > > >> You are right on EDGE and Safari on *PC platforms*. Firefox, > >> Chrome, … are a different story. And there is more differences > >> depending on which platform the browser is running (Windows, > >> Android, iOS, MacOS, …). What I wanted to say is that you would > >> need to be more specific for a statement on browser support (is > >> always a combination of browser, OS, maybe even HW). > >> > >> Nevertheless, I of course agree MPEG-H support on Browser/OS is not > >> “very widespread”. However, it also offers features/compression > >> which are much more advanced than what currently deployed codecs > >> can do. > >> > >> Ok, I see, thanks for clarifying. The statement below refers to DD > >> (not DD+). > >> > >> //Christof > >> > >> From: Sursound on behalf of Stefan > >> Schreiber > >> > >> Date: Saturday, 6. May 2023 at 00:41 > >> > >> To: Surround Sound discussion group > >> > >> Subject: Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format > >> > >> Short answer: > >> > >> EAC-3 (DD+) is natively supported by Edge and all Safari browsers. > >> > >> I really was refering to this one... > >> > >> AC-3 patents should have expired by now, but of course this codec is a > >> > >> bit old. (And won’t support even 7.1, by the way. The highest channel > >> > >> count would be 6.1, and the B channel would be matrixed into 5.1. If > >> > >> my memory is correctly working. But probably yes... ;-) > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Stefan > >> > >> ... > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20230508/d30442e2/attachment.htm > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20230509/16c55f2f/attachment.htm> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
[Sursound] CfP AES-Journal SI on Sonification
/[apologies for cross posting]/ Dear Surround Sound community, We warmly invite you to submit your latest work on Sonification and Auditory Display for the SPECIAL ISSUE ON SONIFICATION in the JOURNAL OF THE AUDIO ENGINEERING SOCIETY (JAES). The SUBMISSION DEADLINE IS JULY 24. The CfP can be found on the AES website: https://www.aes.org/journal/online/JAES_V71/1_2/JAES_V71_1_2_PG78.pdf JAES is a great platform for papers not only from the viewpoint of audio engineering and signal processing but also music and sound design, HCI, perception, and many more. Kind regards Tim Ziemer (University of Hamburg, Hamburg, Germany) Thomas Hermann (Bielefeld University, Bielefeld, Germany) Kyla McMullen (University of Florida, Gainesville, FL) Robert Höldrich (University of Music and Performing Arts Graz, Graz, Austria) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20230509/888d4b85/attachment.htm> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
