Re: [Sursound] Decoding first order ambisonics on higher order decoders?

[Len Moskowitz]

Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:

Which decoder configuration for FOA and TOA in to binaural is the 
best?

 
We've been using IEM BinauralDecoder. It's quite nice. It automatically 
senses what order it's being fed and configures itself accordingly.



You might contact Daniel Rudrich at IEM to ask about details.


  https://plugins.iem.at/docs/plugindescriptions/#binauraldecoder



Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
Core Sound LLC
www.core-sound.com
Home of OctoMic and TetraMic
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Re: [Sursound] Decoding first order ambisonics on higher order decoders?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Which decoder configuration for FOA and TOA in to binaural is the best?
Any references?

Bo-Erik

Den ons 15 maj 2019 07:20Fernando Lopez-Lezcano 
skrev:

> On 5/14/19 6:56 PM, Aaron Heller wrote:
> > Hi Sean,
> > The problem with feeding first-order program material into a third-order
> > decoder is that the per-degree max_rE gains will be wrong.
> >  For 2D: 1, 0.707 vs. 1, 0.924 (, 0.707, 0.383)
> >  For 3D: 1, 0.577 vs. 1, 0.861 (, 0.612, 0.305)
>
> Maybe you could expand on what perceptual effect that has? [*]
>
> Even better would be graphs that show how the soundfield is distorted by
> doing that. I don't remember seeing something like that, but maybe you
> have a reference...
>
> > I'll also point out that for first-order program material, listening
> tests
> > show that dual-band decoding and NFC filters make a substantial
> difference.
> > Still important at third-order, less so for fifth-order and above.  See
> > http://www.ai.sri.com/~heller/ for further details.
> >
> > We're planning a new set of HOA listening tests on CCRMA's new 56-speaker
> > array.
>
> Party party!
> -- Fernando
>
> [*] in my experience piping first order through a third order decoder
> sounds "reasonable" (I have done it, mea culpa), that is, until you use
> a proper first order decoder for the same speaker array with the same
> materials - then it sounds better.
>
>
>
> > On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 12:51 PM Sean Devonport <
> rsdevonport1...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hey there everyone,
> >>
> >> Want to ask if anyone has any thoughts on decoding first order
> ambisonics
> >> to higher order decoders?
> >>
> >> I've been experimenting with decoding first order on third order
> decoders
> >> and I still feel like they work relatively well in my setting (a
> >> hemispherical dome-like configuration of 14 speakers using AllRAD maxRE
> >> decoders).
> >>
> >> I do know there is some upmixing software in the works (
> >> http://research.spa.aalto.fi/projects/compass_vsts/), but so far,
> >> unfortunately, I haven't been too happy with the quality of it (however
> I
> >> do really like the other plugins in SPARTA). Maybe I'm not using it
> >> correctly but I find the upmix generally comes out too sharp.
> >>
> >> I'm hoping someone may have experimented a bit more with this and could
> >> give me their opinions, tips, tricks, or point me in the direction of
> some
> >> research that could give me a solid answer.
> >>
> >> Many thanks in advance!
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sean Devonport
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Re: [Sursound] Decoding first order ambisonics on higher order decoders?

[Fernando Lopez-Lezcano]

On 5/14/19 6:56 PM, Aaron Heller wrote:

Hi Sean,
The problem with feeding first-order program material into a third-order
decoder is that the per-degree max_rE gains will be wrong.
 For 2D: 1, 0.707 vs. 1, 0.924 (, 0.707, 0.383)
 For 3D: 1, 0.577 vs. 1, 0.861 (, 0.612, 0.305)


Maybe you could expand on what perceptual effect that has? [*]

Even better would be graphs that show how the soundfield is distorted by 
doing that. I don't remember seeing something like that, but maybe you 
have a reference...



I'll also point out that for first-order program material, listening tests
show that dual-band decoding and NFC filters make a substantial difference.
Still important at third-order, less so for fifth-order and above.  See
http://www.ai.sri.com/~heller/ for further details.

We're planning a new set of HOA listening tests on CCRMA's new 56-speaker
array.


Party party!
-- Fernando

[*] in my experience piping first order through a third order decoder 
sounds "reasonable" (I have done it, mea culpa), that is, until you use 
a proper first order decoder for the same speaker array with the same 
materials - then it sounds better.





On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 12:51 PM Sean Devonport 
wrote:


Hey there everyone,

Want to ask if anyone has any thoughts on decoding first order ambisonics
to higher order decoders?

I've been experimenting with decoding first order on third order decoders
and I still feel like they work relatively well in my setting (a
hemispherical dome-like configuration of 14 speakers using AllRAD maxRE
decoders).

I do know there is some upmixing software in the works (
http://research.spa.aalto.fi/projects/compass_vsts/), but so far,
unfortunately, I haven't been too happy with the quality of it (however I
do really like the other plugins in SPARTA). Maybe I'm not using it
correctly but I find the upmix generally comes out too sharp.

I'm hoping someone may have experimented a bit more with this and could
give me their opinions, tips, tricks, or point me in the direction of some
research that could give me a solid answer.

Many thanks in advance!

--
Sean Devonport
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Re: [Sursound] Decoding first order ambisonics on higher order decoders?

[Aaron Heller]

Hi Sean,
The problem with feeding first-order program material into a third-order
decoder is that the per-degree max_rE gains will be wrong.
For 2D: 1, 0.707 vs. 1, 0.924 (, 0.707, 0.383)
For 3D: 1, 0.577 vs. 1, 0.861 (, 0.612, 0.305)

I'll also point out that for first-order program material, listening tests
show that dual-band decoding and NFC filters make a substantial difference.
Still important at third-order, less so for fifth-order and above.  See
http://www.ai.sri.com/~heller/ for further details.

We're planning a new set of HOA listening tests on CCRMA's new 56-speaker
array.

Aaron Heller (hel...@ai.sri.com)
Menlo Park, CA  US











On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 12:51 PM Sean Devonport 
wrote:
>
> Hey there everyone,
>
> Want to ask if anyone has any thoughts on decoding first order ambisonics
> to higher order decoders?
>
> I've been experimenting with decoding first order on third order decoders
> and I still feel like they work relatively well in my setting (a
> hemispherical dome-like configuration of 14 speakers using AllRAD maxRE
> decoders).
>
> I do know there is some upmixing software in the works (
> http://research.spa.aalto.fi/projects/compass_vsts/), but so far,
> unfortunately, I haven't been too happy with the quality of it (however I
> do really like the other plugins in SPARTA). Maybe I'm not using it
> correctly but I find the upmix generally comes out too sharp.
>
> I'm hoping someone may have experimented a bit more with this and could
> give me their opinions, tips, tricks, or point me in the direction of some
> research that could give me a solid answer.
>
> Many thanks in advance!
>
> --
> Sean Devonport
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[Sursound] Decoding first order ambisonics on higher order decoders?

[Sean Devonport]

Hey there everyone,

Want to ask if anyone has any thoughts on decoding first order ambisonics
to higher order decoders?

I've been experimenting with decoding first order on third order decoders
and I still feel like they work relatively well in my setting (a
hemispherical dome-like configuration of 14 speakers using AllRAD maxRE
decoders).

I do know there is some upmixing software in the works (
http://research.spa.aalto.fi/projects/compass_vsts/), but so far,
unfortunately, I haven't been too happy with the quality of it (however I
do really like the other plugins in SPARTA). Maybe I'm not using it
correctly but I find the upmix generally comes out too sharp.

I'm hoping someone may have experimented a bit more with this and could
give me their opinions, tips, tricks, or point me in the direction of some
research that could give me a solid answer.

Many thanks in advance!

-- 
Sean Devonport
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