Re: [Sursound] Great responses to my post--thanks!
Hello Eric,
Very interesting post. I was a bit intrigued by what you had to say
regarding binaural recordings and the lack of sense of space. Reproducing
a sense of space is something that has interested me a lot as a sound
artist and I've been experimenting with building different types of
binaural mics. Here is an example recording I made:
http://soundcloud.com/hcenteno/kids-running-in-the-wychwood-barns
If I close my eyes I can really feel the space and the kids running in
front of me, and not inside my head, but I wonder how would other people
perceive it
Headphones:
(Comments made before reading above para.!)
Very good sense of space.
I mistakenly thought the kids would circle round me ;-)
Most of the movement was behind me.
Some movement went through my head.
The (?)board they run over was always behind me.
Soundstage seemed limited to:
from due L, round behind to RF (90 to 315 degrees).
(Cheap (actually free) Thomann ('t-bone') HD800 headphones :
so give this what weight you wish ;-)
Thanks for making it available,
Michael
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Re: [Sursound] Great responses to my post--thanks!
Hello Eric, Very interesting post. I was a bit intrigued by what you had to say regarding binaural recordings and the lack of sense of space. Reproducing a sense of space is something that has interested me a lot as a sound artist and I've been experimenting with building different types of binaural mics. Here is an example recording I made: http://soundcloud.com/hcenteno/kids-running-in-the-wychwood-barns If I close my eyes I can really feel the space and the kids running in front of me, and not inside my head, but I wonder how would other people perceive it (I'm very familiar with the space where this was recorded so I wonder if that influences my perception). I've been also experimenting with recordings made with a first order mic decoded to stereo binaural with head tracking and indeed the sense of space works quite well, although I have to say that not as defined as the stereo binaural recordings (which might be a flaw on my process which I'm still refining). Cheers, Hector On 2011-11-30, at 1:30 PM, Eric Carmichel wrote: Actually, I've never experienced a sense of “open space” when listening to binaural recordings or simulations from HRTF IRs (including the often-cited IRs made by Gardner et al at MIT during the 1990s). I own ER-3A insert phones, Sennheiser HDA 200 audiometric headphones, and my work-horse AKG K240 studio 'phones--but I've yet to hear a binaural recording that replicates live sound--practically everything gives the usual in-the-head effect or is lateralized (versus localized). ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Great responses to my post--thanks!
At 21:29 04/12/2011, Hector Centeno wrote: Here is an example recording I made: http://soundcloud.com/hcenteno/kids-running-in-the-wychwood-barns Thanks! It sounds good to me played on earbuds... David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Great responses to my post--thanks!
Hector, For me there was a good sense of space and kids running from side to side but they seemed to run through or behind me instead of in front. Cheers, NeilA At 11:29 12/5/2011, you wrote: Hello Eric, Very interesting post. I was a bit intrigued by what you had to say regarding binaural recordings and the lack of sense of space. Reproducing a sense of space is something that has interested me a lot as a sound artist and I've been experimenting with building different types of binaural mics. Here is an example recording I made: http://soundcloud.com/hcenteno/kids-running-in-the-wychwood-barns If I close my eyes I can really feel the space and the kids running in front of me, and not inside my head, but I wonder how would other people perceive it (I'm very familiar with the space where this was recorded so I wonder if that influences my perception). I've been also experimenting with recordings made with a first order mic decoded to stereo binaural with head tracking and indeed the sense of space works quite well, although I have to say that not as defined as the stereo binaural recordings (which might be a flaw on my process which I'm still refining). Cheers, Hector On 2011-11-30, at 1:30 PM, Eric Carmichel wrote: Actually, I've never experienced a sense of open space when listening to binaural recordings or simulations from HRTF IRs (including the often-cited IRs made by Gardner et al at MIT during the 1990s). I own ER-3A insert phones, Sennheiser HDA 200 audiometric headphones, and my work-horse AKG K240 studio 'phones--but I've yet to hear a binaural recording that replicates live sound--practically everything gives the usual in-the-head effect or is lateralized (versus localized). ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Great responses to my post--thanks!
On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 10:30:07AM -0800, Eric Carmichel wrote: The post that said that Ambisonics resorts to some “psychoacoustic trickery” was very well taken, and addresses one of my preliminary concerns regarding first-order Ambisonics. This is true, in the same sense as it is for e.g. stereo. But there's less room for error - 1st order is a delicate compromise and a well working system depends on everything being correct. Higher order is lot more 'robust'. At low F it reconstructs the original soundfield over a larger area, and for mid and high F almost all of the energy will be coming from the two or three speakers nearest to the intended source direction. These will have smaller angles between them as well (as there are more), so things will 'just work' even if speaker placement is not ideal etc. ... But the background noise should be realistic in level, and its wave field created by an Ambisonic arrangement (even first-order) should hopefully be more realistic than the old-school method using a single loudspeaker. I'm sure it will be. ... Actually, I've never experienced a sense of “open space” when listening to binaural recordings or simulations from HRTF IRs (including the often-cited IRs made by Gardner et al at MIT during the 1990s). I own ER-3A insert phones, Sennheiser HDA 200 audiometric headphones, and my work-horse AKG K240 studio 'phones--but I've yet to hear a binaural recording that replicates live sound--practically everything gives the usual in-the-head effect or is lateralized (versus localized). Same here. Until head motion tracking is added - then things start to work quite well - for me at least. I remember a very convincing demo by Sacha Spors at T-Labs in Berlin. Your area of research seems a fascinating one. I wonder what would be the actual experience of someone using a CI after adaptation and training - it's probably difficult to communicate. I've heard of blind people being trained in using a camera + computer driven 'bed of nails' to transmit a crude picture using tactile stimuli. It seems (but I've not found any reliable reports), that after some time they are able to bypass the conscious interpretation of the tactice stimuli, and in a sense 'see' the picture. Would something similar occur for hearing if e.g. the input is only the equivalent of a six-band vocoder ? Ciao, -- FA ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
