Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public. (was: Never do math in public...)

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I copied the wrong link, touch interface is not always good :-)

I was involved in getting Matthias to support the diy head tracker with the
gy-85 an a aurdino nano with USB connectivity, in the current setup we need
a initial calibration and a pd plugin to convert to OSC to talk to Reaper
daw.

Now I saw this module, neat and small no calibration needed.
https://www.tindie.com/products/FabLab/pico-platinchen/

https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-bno055-absolute-orientation-sensor/overview

http://github.com/arduino-org/Arduino/tree/ide-org-1.6.1.x/libraries/NAxesMotion

Maybe it overkill and have one processor too much in the chain...
Currently the plan is convert to OSC high speed serial in the
pico-platinchen.

I will add a esp-01 esp8266 to connect the serial port and send the OSC
data with UDP WiFi to the PC running Reaper. The WiFi setup will be done in
esp-01 code.

Probably a esp8266 and the BNO055 directly connected could manage it
without the ATmega328P on the pico platinchen.
But currently the cost of for example
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adafruit-9-DOF-Absolute-Orientation-IMU-Fusion-Breakout-BNO055-PID-2472-/171821750983?hash=item28015fdac7:g:-wYAAOSwBLlVTrbI
is not cheaper than the pico...

A naked bno055 is 13 usd on ali express but needs a circuit board and be
built to combine with the esp-01.

So 2 small modules and a battery is the system, and be mounted on the
headband of a headset.

I am definitely open for all possible forms of cooperation.
Bo-Erik
On 31 Jan 2016 16:58, "Marc Lavallée"  wrote:

>
> Warning: the discussion is drifting to DIY electronic gadgetry. :)
>
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 11:16:26 +0100,
> Bo-Erik Sandholm  wrote :
>
> > I have decided to simplify  the DIY head tracking dongle build and
> > setup in some aspects, now I have ordered this sensor that do not
> > need initial calibration.
> > This is the new sensor module:
> > https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-neopixel-uberguide/overview
>
> The page is about addressable LED modules. Is it an error?
>
> I would use a GY-85 board and a micro-controller, as seen here:
> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1677559
> This is a good starting point.
>
> > It will initially be combined with a esp8266 module for WiFi
> > connectivity or maybe Bluetooth
> > http://www.esp8266.com/wiki/doku.php?id=getting-started-with-the-esp8266
> >
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Promotion-Brand-NEW-HC-05-Wireless-Bluetooth-RF-Transceiver-Module-serial-RS232-TTL/32367579918.html
>
> Could there be some added latency when using wifi or bluetooth? A
> direct usb connection should be faster, but avoiding a cable would be
> desirable because many android devices cannot easily use their usb port
> for communication. If using wifi, I would try multicast udp.
>
> Here's a page that explains how to use the bluetooth module:
>
> http://www.instructables.com/id/Cheap-2-Way-Bluetooth-Connection-Between-Arduino-a/
>
> > Power will probably be from one of these, giving around 10 hours of
> > operations:
> >
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4PCS-Hot-Sale-Soshine-900mAh-14500-battery-3-2V-LiFePO4-AA-Rechargeable-Battery/32242320597.html
>
> Nice!
>
> > I will send OSC (open sound control
> > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control) directly from the
> > sensor.
>
> OSC is a good protocol, but an application specific protocol could be
> designed to be more compact, reducing the latency.
>
> > This should simplify the build of the head tracked sensor, reducing
> > the soldering need.
>
> There would be 4 modules involved: a sensing assembly, a
> micro-controller, a wifi transmission module, and a power supply. Going
> usb-wired would remove the wifi transmitter and the supply.
>
> A custom firmware can be programmed for the ESP-8266, which have GPIOs,
> so maybe it could be used as a micro-controller:
>
> http://hackaday.com/2015/03/18/how-to-directly-program-an-inexpensive-esp8266-wifi-module/
>
> If a micro-controller is required, the trinket is an alternative to
> the arduino nano: https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-trinket/
> It's much smaller, works at 3.2V. For a 5V USB wired version, it can
> provide 3.2 volts for other boards.
>
> > This should simplify the setup of playback using
> > http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015
> > And maybe later ambiexplorer can be modified to accept OSC data?
>
> It could even be used with a browser (chrome) based player.
>
> In the end, the first problem to avoid is latency, and it can invalidate
> many potential solutions.
>
> > This will allow you to use any headphones and DAC and amplifier
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Bo-Erik
>
> I already bought some of the parts to create a head-tracking device,
> months ago. Let's do it and share the designs. Even if we have
> personalized HRTFs with order 1024 decoders, we need head-tracking.
> The other solution is to use the sensors in phones or oculus-like
> devices, but they are all too big or a bit expensive 

Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public. (was: Never do math in public...)

[Marc Lavallée]

The BNO055 is a wonder.
Here's a complete integration with bluetooth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84MOS78-Hso
Too bad the schematics are not provided.

The sensor looks easy to use, but it needs calibration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz4EozK4cPY

If made small enough, a complete device could be useful not only for
head tracking, but also to track the orientation of an ambisonic
microphone (or a panoramic/360 camera).

--
Marc

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 20:16:24 +0100,
Bo-Erik Sandholm  wrote :

> I copied the wrong link, touch interface is not always good :-)
> 
> I was involved in getting Matthias to support the diy head tracker
> with the gy-85 an a aurdino nano with USB connectivity, in the
> current setup we need a initial calibration and a pd plugin to
> convert to OSC to talk to Reaper daw.
> 
> Now I saw this module, neat and small no calibration needed.
> https://www.tindie.com/products/FabLab/pico-platinchen/
> 
> https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-bno055-absolute-orientation-sensor/overview
> 
> http://github.com/arduino-org/Arduino/tree/ide-org-1.6.1.x/libraries/NAxesMotion
> 
> Maybe it overkill and have one processor too much in the chain...
> Currently the plan is convert to OSC high speed serial in the
> pico-platinchen.
> 
> I will add a esp-01 esp8266 to connect the serial port and send the
> OSC data with UDP WiFi to the PC running Reaper. The WiFi setup will
> be done in esp-01 code.
> 
> Probably a esp8266 and the BNO055 directly connected could manage it
> without the ATmega328P on the pico platinchen.
> But currently the cost of for example
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adafruit-9-DOF-Absolute-Orientation-IMU-Fusion-Breakout-BNO055-PID-2472-/171821750983?hash=item28015fdac7:g:-wYAAOSwBLlVTrbI
> is not cheaper than the pico...
> 
> A naked bno055 is 13 usd on ali express but needs a circuit board and
> be built to combine with the esp-01.
> 
> So 2 small modules and a battery is the system, and be mounted on the
> headband of a headset.
> 
> I am definitely open for all possible forms of cooperation.
> Bo-Erik
> On 31 Jan 2016 16:58, "Marc Lavallée"  wrote:
> 
> >
> > Warning: the discussion is drifting to DIY electronic gadgetry. :)
> >
> > On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 11:16:26 +0100,
> > Bo-Erik Sandholm  wrote :
> >
> > > I have decided to simplify  the DIY head tracking dongle build and
> > > setup in some aspects, now I have ordered this sensor that do not
> > > need initial calibration.
> > > This is the new sensor module:
> > > https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-neopixel-uberguide/overview
> >
> > The page is about addressable LED modules. Is it an error?
> >
> > I would use a GY-85 board and a micro-controller, as seen here:
> > http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1677559
> > This is a good starting point.
> >
> > > It will initially be combined with a esp8266 module for WiFi
> > > connectivity or maybe Bluetooth
> > > http://www.esp8266.com/wiki/doku.php?id=getting-started-with-the-esp8266
> > >
> > http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Promotion-Brand-NEW-HC-05-Wireless-Bluetooth-RF-Transceiver-Module-serial-RS232-TTL/32367579918.html
> >
> > Could there be some added latency when using wifi or bluetooth? A
> > direct usb connection should be faster, but avoiding a cable would
> > be desirable because many android devices cannot easily use their
> > usb port for communication. If using wifi, I would try multicast
> > udp.
> >
> > Here's a page that explains how to use the bluetooth module:
> >
> > http://www.instructables.com/id/Cheap-2-Way-Bluetooth-Connection-Between-Arduino-a/
> >
> > > Power will probably be from one of these, giving around 10 hours
> > > of operations:
> > >
> > http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4PCS-Hot-Sale-Soshine-900mAh-14500-battery-3-2V-LiFePO4-AA-Rechargeable-Battery/32242320597.html
> >
> > Nice!
> >
> > > I will send OSC (open sound control
> > > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control) directly from
> > > the sensor.
> >
> > OSC is a good protocol, but an application specific protocol could
> > be designed to be more compact, reducing the latency.
> >
> > > This should simplify the build of the head tracked sensor,
> > > reducing the soldering need.
> >
> > There would be 4 modules involved: a sensing assembly, a
> > micro-controller, a wifi transmission module, and a power supply.
> > Going usb-wired would remove the wifi transmitter and the supply.
> >
> > A custom firmware can be programmed for the ESP-8266, which have
> > GPIOs, so maybe it could be used as a micro-controller:
> >
> > http://hackaday.com/2015/03/18/how-to-directly-program-an-inexpensive-esp8266-wifi-module/
> >
> > If a micro-controller is required, the trinket is an alternative to
> > the arduino nano: https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-trinket/
> > It's much smaller, works at 3.2V. For a 5V USB wired version, it can
> > provide 3.2 volts for other boards.
> >
> > > This should simplify the setup of 

[Sursound] Never do electronic in public. (was: Never do math in public...)

[Marc Lavallée]

Warning: the discussion is drifting to DIY electronic gadgetry. :)

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 11:16:26 +0100,
Bo-Erik Sandholm  wrote :

> I have decided to simplify  the DIY head tracking dongle build and
> setup in some aspects, now I have ordered this sensor that do not
> need initial calibration.
> This is the new sensor module:
> https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-neopixel-uberguide/overview

The page is about addressable LED modules. Is it an error?

I would use a GY-85 board and a micro-controller, as seen here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1677559
This is a good starting point.

> It will initially be combined with a esp8266 module for WiFi
> connectivity or maybe Bluetooth
> http://www.esp8266.com/wiki/doku.php?id=getting-started-with-the-esp8266
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Promotion-Brand-NEW-HC-05-Wireless-Bluetooth-RF-Transceiver-Module-serial-RS232-TTL/32367579918.html

Could there be some added latency when using wifi or bluetooth? A
direct usb connection should be faster, but avoiding a cable would be
desirable because many android devices cannot easily use their usb port
for communication. If using wifi, I would try multicast udp.

Here's a page that explains how to use the bluetooth module:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Cheap-2-Way-Bluetooth-Connection-Between-Arduino-a/

> Power will probably be from one of these, giving around 10 hours of
> operations:
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4PCS-Hot-Sale-Soshine-900mAh-14500-battery-3-2V-LiFePO4-AA-Rechargeable-Battery/32242320597.html

Nice!

> I will send OSC (open sound control
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control) directly from the
> sensor.

OSC is a good protocol, but an application specific protocol could be
designed to be more compact, reducing the latency.

> This should simplify the build of the head tracked sensor, reducing
> the soldering need.

There would be 4 modules involved: a sensing assembly, a
micro-controller, a wifi transmission module, and a power supply. Going
usb-wired would remove the wifi transmitter and the supply.

A custom firmware can be programmed for the ESP-8266, which have GPIOs,
so maybe it could be used as a micro-controller:
http://hackaday.com/2015/03/18/how-to-directly-program-an-inexpensive-esp8266-wifi-module/

If a micro-controller is required, the trinket is an alternative to
the arduino nano: https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-trinket/
It's much smaller, works at 3.2V. For a 5V USB wired version, it can
provide 3.2 volts for other boards.

> This should simplify the setup of playback using
> http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015
> And maybe later ambiexplorer can be modified to accept OSC data?

It could even be used with a browser (chrome) based player.

In the end, the first problem to avoid is latency, and it can invalidate
many potential solutions.

> This will allow you to use any headphones and DAC and amplifier
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Bo-Erik

I already bought some of the parts to create a head-tracking device,
months ago. Let's do it and share the designs. Even if we have
personalized HRTFs with order 1024 decoders, we need head-tracking.
The other solution is to use the sensors in phones or oculus-like
devices, but they are all too big or a bit expensive for the task
of listening to binaural audio only (not combined with visuals).

> _--
> 
> I want to see a good quality over the ear stereo headphone with all
> necessary electronics built into the headband. It will have single usb
> connector which will provide power and digital audio (24 bit) and
> carry head tracking information back to the computer, which will have
> the software to play standard first order B-format files decoded to
> binaural, using simple HRTF filters. The computer can be your
> desktop, a tablet computer or a mobile.
> 
> umashankar

For a DIY project, integrating head-tracking and audio would be a lot,
and the resulting device could be rather large. But I may be wrong.

--
Marc

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Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public. (was: Never do math in public...)

[Paul Hodges]

--On 31 January 2016 10:58 -0500 Marc Lavallée 
wrote:

> Warning: the discussion is drifting to DIY electronic gadgetry. :)

I just got some new electronic gadgetry. :-)  Not home-made, though,
commercial, designated with a block of random letters and numbers:
something like SPS200...

Paul


-- 
Paul Hodges

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