Re: [Sursound] a query

[Dave Malham]

Oh well, just finish it, probably better not to return it to the cellar :-)

   Enjoy
Dave

On 24 June 2013 20:35, Michael Chapman  wrote:

> >> Interesting - I found the letter through the Uni's electronic journals
> >> access. Peter used both "ambisonic" and "ambiphonic"  ( _not_
> >> "Ambiophonic"
> >> !) in that letter. However, I was then able to go back to his letter in
> >> the
> >> Feb 8 1973 of that Journal and found that that one also contained
> >> "ambisonics" and, not only that, but it also discusses the use of phase
> >> shift based matrix technologies to get two channel representations (ie
> >>  what became uhj) - moreover the letter is actually dated November 1972!
> >>
> >
> > So we've missed the Thirtieth Anniversary (bit bad, that ;-(>
> > ... bottles back down to the cellar, etc.
> >
> > Michael
> >
>
> Du   .  .  .   Fortieth  sorry had started one already,
>
> Michael
>
>
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As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.

These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University

Dave Malham
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The University of York
York YO10 5DD
UK

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Re: [Sursound] a query

[Dave Malham]

The letters that Aaron has come up with are really interesting as I hadn't
seen them before. I'm really excited to see them as they are definitely
fleshing out the early days. However, I'd still appreciate a pointer to the
earlier discussion as something is nagging at the back of my mind about
something that was mentioned in it and I can't remember what it was!


   Dave


On 23 June 2013 21:42, Richard G Elen  wrote:

> On 23/06/2013 21:22, Gerald Wilson wrote:
>
>> they had settled on that terminology after some debate and apologised for
>> mixing Greek and Latin roots; but Felgett pointed out that a precedent had
>> been set by the term "television", which in a grammatically pure world
>> would be called either "Procul-vision" or "tele-opticon".
>>
>
> Hmmm. But "Ambisonic" consists solely of Latin roots: "ambi" "surrounding,
> encircling," from ambientem (nominative ambiens) "going round," present
> participle of ambire "to go around," from amb- "around" (see ambi-) + ire
> "go"; and "sonic" from sonus "sound".
>
> There was, however, discussion at the time that one problem with
> "quadraphony" was that it mixed Greek and Latin roots and that it should by
> rights have been either "Quadrasonics" or "Tetraphony".
>
> --Richard E
>
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As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.

These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University

Dave Malham
Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
The University of York
York YO10 5DD
UK

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Re: [Sursound] a query

[Michael Chapman]

>> Interesting - I found the letter through the Uni's electronic journals
>> access. Peter used both "ambisonic" and "ambiphonic"  ( _not_
>> "Ambiophonic"
>> !) in that letter. However, I was then able to go back to his letter in
>> the
>> Feb 8 1973 of that Journal and found that that one also contained
>> "ambisonics" and, not only that, but it also discusses the use of phase
>> shift based matrix technologies to get two channel representations (ie
>>  what became uhj) - moreover the letter is actually dated November 1972!
>>
>
> So we've missed the Thirtieth Anniversary (bit bad, that ;-(>
> ... bottles back down to the cellar, etc.
>
> Michael
>

Du   .  .  .   Fortieth  sorry had started one already,

Michael


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Re: [Sursound] a query

[Michael Chapman]

> Interesting - I found the letter through the Uni's electronic journals
> access. Peter used both "ambisonic" and "ambiphonic"  ( _not_
> "Ambiophonic"
> !) in that letter. However, I was then able to go back to his letter in
> the
> Feb 8 1973 of that Journal and found that that one also contained
> "ambisonics" and, not only that, but it also discusses the use of phase
> shift based matrix technologies to get two channel representations (ie
>  what became uhj) - moreover the letter is actually dated November 1972!
>

So we've missed the Thirtieth Anniversary (bit bad, that ;-(>
... bottles back down to the cellar, etc.

Michael


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Re: [Sursound] a query

[Dave Malham]

Interesting - I found the letter through the Uni's electronic journals
access. Peter used both "ambisonic" and "ambiphonic"  ( _not_ "Ambiophonic"
!) in that letter. However, I was then able to go back to his letter in the
Feb 8 1973 of that Journal and found that that one also contained
"ambisonics" and, not only that, but it also discusses the use of phase
shift based matrix technologies to get two channel representations (ie
 what became uhj) - moreover the letter is actually dated November 1972!

Dave

On 24 June 2013 17:28, Aaron Heller  wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Dave Malham 
> wrote:
>
> > Ah - most interesting, Aaron, I haven't seen the 2nd one and it's not in
> > the Ambisonics Motherlode ... does anyone have a copy?
> >
>
> Sent via pm.  It's available from IEEE.  It references a letter to the
> editor from Fellgett in the May 3, 1973 issue, digging that up, we find him
> using the term Ambisonic in this letter dated March 23, 1973.  So that
> narrows the window to 9/72  to 3/73.
>
>
> > On 23 June 2013 21:56, Aaron Heller  wrote:
> >
> > > The term "Ambisonics" does not appear at all in Fellgett's 9/72 article
> > > [1], but is in the title in 11/73 [2].
> > >
> > > [1] P. Fellgett, “Directional information in reproduced sound,”
> Wireless
> > > World, vol. 78, no. 1443, pp. 413–417, 1972.
> > >
> > > [2] P. Fellgett, “Ambisonic reproduction of sound,” Electronics and
> > Power,
> > > vol. 19, no. 20, pp. 492–494, 1973.
> >
> >
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-- 
As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University, so this
disclaimer is redundant


These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer

Dave Malham
Ex-Music Research Centre
Department of Music
The University of York
Heslington
York YO10 5DD
UK

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Re: [Sursound] a query

[Aaron Heller]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Dave Malham  wrote:

> Ah - most interesting, Aaron, I haven't seen the 2nd one and it's not in
> the Ambisonics Motherlode ... does anyone have a copy?
>

Sent via pm.  It's available from IEEE.  It references a letter to the
editor from Fellgett in the May 3, 1973 issue, digging that up, we find him
using the term Ambisonic in this letter dated March 23, 1973.  So that
narrows the window to 9/72  to 3/73.


> On 23 June 2013 21:56, Aaron Heller  wrote:
>
> > The term "Ambisonics" does not appear at all in Fellgett's 9/72 article
> > [1], but is in the title in 11/73 [2].
> >
> > [1] P. Fellgett, “Directional information in reproduced sound,” Wireless
> > World, vol. 78, no. 1443, pp. 413–417, 1972.
> >
> > [2] P. Fellgett, “Ambisonic reproduction of sound,” Electronics and
> Power,
> > vol. 19, no. 20, pp. 492–494, 1973.
>
>
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Re: [Sursound] a query

[Dave Malham]

Ah - most interesting, Aaron, I haven't seen the 2nd one and it's not in
the Ambisonics Motherlode ... does anyone have a copy?

 Dave

On 23 June 2013 21:56, Aaron Heller  wrote:

> The term "Ambisonics" does not appear at all in Fellgett's 9/72 article
> [1], but is in the title in 11/73 [2].
>
> [1] P. Fellgett, “Directional information in reproduced sound,” Wireless
> World, vol. 78, no. 1443, pp. 413–417, 1972.
>
> [2] P. Fellgett, “Ambisonic reproduction of sound,” Electronics and Power,
> vol. 19, no. 20, pp. 492–494, 1973.
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-- 
As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.

These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University

Dave Malham
Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
The University of York
York YO10 5DD
UK

'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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Re: [Sursound] a query

[Richard G Elen]

On 23/06/2013 21:56, Aaron Heller wrote:

The term "Ambisonics" does not appear at all in Fellgett's 9/72 article
[1], but is in the title in 11/73 [2].


The term "Periphony" incidentally was around in early 1973:
M.A. Gerzon, "Periphony: With-Height Sound Reproduction", J. Audio Eng. 
Soc., vol. 21, pp. 2-10 (1973 Jan./Feb.)


--R

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Re: [Sursound] a query

[Aaron Heller]

The term "Ambisonics" does not appear at all in Fellgett's 9/72 article
[1], but is in the title in 11/73 [2].

[1] P. Fellgett, “Directional information in reproduced sound,” Wireless
World, vol. 78, no. 1443, pp. 413–417, 1972.

[2] P. Fellgett, “Ambisonic reproduction of sound,” Electronics and Power,
vol. 19, no. 20, pp. 492–494, 1973.
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Re: [Sursound] a query

[Gerald Wilson]

Good point. Maybe he was apologising for NOT mixing Greek and Latin roots...

(It was a long time ago...)

GWW

On 23 Jun 2013, at 21:42, Richard G Elen wrote:

> On 23/06/2013 21:22, Gerald Wilson wrote:
>> they had settled on that terminology after some debate and apologised for 
>> mixing Greek and Latin roots; but Felgett pointed out that a precedent had 
>> been set by the term "television", which in a grammatically pure world would 
>> be called either "Procul-vision" or "tele-opticon".
> 
> Hmmm. But "Ambisonic" consists solely of Latin roots: "ambi" "surrounding, 
> encircling," from ambientem (nominative ambiens) "going round," present 
> participle of ambire "to go around," from amb- "around" (see ambi-) + ire 
> "go"; and "sonic" from sonus "sound".
> 
> There was, however, discussion at the time that one problem with 
> "quadraphony" was that it mixed Greek and Latin roots and that it should by 
> rights have been either "Quadrasonics" or "Tetraphony".
> 
> --Richard E
> 
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Re: [Sursound] a query

[Richard G Elen]

On 23/06/2013 21:22, Gerald Wilson wrote:

they had settled on that terminology after some debate and apologised for mixing Greek and Latin roots; but 
Felgett pointed out that a precedent had been set by the term "television", which in a 
grammatically pure world would be called either "Procul-vision" or "tele-opticon".


Hmmm. But "Ambisonic" consists solely of Latin roots: "ambi" 
"surrounding, encircling," from ambientem (nominative ambiens) "going 
round," present participle of ambire "to go around," from amb- "around" 
(see ambi-) + ire "go"; and "sonic" from sonus "sound".


There was, however, discussion at the time that one problem with 
"quadraphony" was that it mixed Greek and Latin roots and that it should 
by rights have been either "Quadrasonics" or "Tetraphony".


--Richard E

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Re: [Sursound] a query

[Gerald Wilson]

As I recall, Peter Felgett gave a significant lecture on the subject at the IEE 
in London in March 1977. By that stage the term "Ambisonics" had been used by 
Felgett and Gerzon in several published papers in Wireless World and similar 
periodicals for about two years previous to that. I think Felgett remarked - 
off-hand - that they had settled on that terminology after some debate and 
apologised for mixing Greek and Latin roots; but Felgett pointed out that a 
precedent had been set by the term "television", which in a grammatically pure 
world would be called either "Procul-vision" or "tele-opticon".

Gerald WW

On 23 Jun 2013, at 12:32, Dave Malham wrote:

> Hi guys,
>   A year or two ago I seem to remember we had a discussion about the
> origins of the term "Ambisonics" and when it was first used. Assuming I am
> recalling correctly, can anyone remind me when that was as I'm damned if I
> can come up with a combination of words that brings it up in a search...
> 
>Dave
> 
> -- 
> As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University, so this
> disclaimer is redundant
> 
> 
> These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer
> 
> Dave Malham
> Ex-Music Research Centre
> Department of Music
> The University of York
> Heslington
> York YO10 5DD
> UK
> 
> 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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