[biofuels-biz] Refill Madness
http://www.globalhemp.com/News/2001/August/refill_madness.shtml Week of August 8 - 14, 2001 Hemp-Powered Car Rolls Its Own Fuel Refill Madness Erik Baard, The Village Voice Hemp Across America: The Hemp Car crew (All photos from hempcar.org) While high-powered lobbyists clashed, seduced, and debated their way to a House energy bill last Wednesday that called for drilling Arctic preserves and left renewable fuel by the wayside, the dialogue at the helm of one alternative-fuel program went something like this: Where are we parking? I don't see any place to park. I dunno. Where are you looking? Are we parking here? Such was the chatter inside the confusedly circling Hemp Car, a 1983 Mercedes station wagon powered by oil squeezed from cannabis seeds and converted into biodiesel, a cleaner vegetable substitute for the petroleum product. Its passengers were activists from Virginia on a U.S. tour, who eventually pulled up and parked on a sidewalk for a pit stop in Minneapolis. The situation in Bush's Washington is much the same: If you're looking for far-out energy resources that blow smoke in the face of Big Oil, you have to roll your own opportunities. Though the Hemp Car is trundling across the wilds of America, D.C. is never far out of mind-that's where the tour began on July 4 and will conclude at the start of October. We're promoting biomass for fuel instead of drilling in the Arctic or taking a new look at nuclear power, explains Hemp Car spokesperson Scott Fur. The adventure began with Grayson and Kellie Sigler, the eco-activist couple at the heart of the Hemp Car effort, who were itching to take a cross-country trip without choking the scenery. Research led them to industrial hemp. That's right, the industrial stuff-you won't get a buzz from tailgating the Hemp Car. Not that the crew would mind. We see nothing wrong with responsible people using marijuana. We're frankly sick of nonviolent drug offenders being thrown in jail, Fur fumes. But mixing those issues may prove a bit too combustible for biofuel allies on Capitol Hill. Just ask South Dakota senator Tim Johnson, who introduced a bill to his chamber's energy committee in July requiring that renewables like biodiesel and ethanol, an alcohol additive made from cellulose, compose 2 percent of transportation fuel by 2008 and 5 percent by 2016. Johnson is girding for a fight with hardline conservatives in the pocket of Big Oil. I would guess, notes spokesperson Bob Martin dryly, that industrial hemp would be a little harder to sell than biodiesel based on soybeans. If hemp is too taboo for Washington, there have been enough other demonstration vehicles to stage a Cannonball Run. Best known among them are the Veggie Van, the Grease Car, and Greasy Gretta the Volkswagen Jetta. They can all trace their ancestry to the diesel engine showcased at the 1900 World's Fair, which ran on straight peanut oil. Today's Grease Car also runs on pure vegetable oil and used grease, but needs to be warmed first by burning diesel-coventional or bio. And it broke down on the return leg of its tour. Justin Carven, the 24-year-old who invented it as a college project, now sells conversion kits for $795. Oddly enough, for the pilots of the Hemp Car, one of the bedrock rules is abstinence. In the car we're trying to keep everything by the book, everything above board, so nothing bad happens, Fur says. He figures a station wagon emblazoned This Car Powered by Hemp and Make It Hempen is already a traveling KICK ME sign. Even industrial hemp, with THC levels so low you'd have to smoke a doobie the size of a telephone pole to get high, is illegal to grow (but not use in finished form) in America. It doesn't help that most Canadian farmers who started growing hemp plants-whose fiber can also produce paper and cloth and strengthen plastics-in a federal experiment in 1998 have already abandoned it. Officials there say processing it was uneconomical and teenagers raided fields to sell the drug-free clippings, misrepresented as kind bud to naive classmates. The Hemp Car gets most of its stash from China; it's processed by Apple Energy in Virginia and shipped to points along the route. So far, so good with American authorities, Fur reports. Actually, our only experience was positive, he says. When we pulled into Detroit from Canada, the border cops said, 'You know, there's no way we can let you in with a car like that without being searched.' And so they took us into this room and through the window we could see the dog just laying there with his head on his paws and all the border cops stood around the car and got their pictures taken with it. Their only questions were like, 'How is the tour going?' and 'How many miles per gallon do you get?' They know the difference between marijuana and hemp, adds Fur, whose uncle is a New York City cop. But that doesn't spare the crew some ribbing. One of the most frequent
[biofuel] dried fuel alcohol
Dear Sirs, We intend to set up a Power Alcohol Plant of 20 Million liters per year capacity with Molecular Sieve Drying using 95% purity(v/v) alcohol as feedstock. 95% purity Alcohol (with 5% moisture) is readily available which we wish to purify to 99.5% purity(v/v). Steam at 6 Kg/cm2g pressure and Cooling water at 32¡C and Power at 400 Volts, 50 cycles is available. We understand you are manufacturer of Power Alcohol. Can you supply us this Alcohol Dehydration plant? Can you also give us only Technical know how and Drawings for making this plant in India. What would be your Technical fee? If you are not in a position to do either of the above, then please let us know Names and Addresses of consultants to whom we can contact for this requirement. We are thankful for your help. Thanking you, SHAIKHAR CHANDRA Purchase ManagerGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Ethanol is a net energy loser~Bigtime
No Todd, 345 is what oil companies consider is the average number of days that an oil well is actually producing per year, allowing for maintenance shut downs etc. Hanns -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 11 August 2001 9:41 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ethanol is a net energy loser~Bigtime Hanns, I think you can trust me when I tell you that I am also at the top of the list in issuing all encompassing phrases and statements. Not trying to be a snit, but the 345 was a typo, yes? Anyway, it's been a terribly long week, and Monday starts all over again tomorrow. I do believe that I will taste a little amber malt before I recycle myself in the morning. Here's mud in yur eye! Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Hanns B. Wetzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 10:44 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Ethanol is a net energy loser~Bigtime Todd, absolutely correct thta was kind'a toungue in cheek. The oil figures were yearly not daily, it was late and I read it too quickly. Divide by 345 to get the correct result. Hanns -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 10 August 2001 6:06 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ethanol is a net energy loser~Bigtime No doubt ??? Absolutely ? Correct Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] No doubt all what professor Pimentel has said is absolutely correct. But in 50 years time when world conventional oil production is down to 17 billion barrels per day and demand for oil equivalent in liquid fuels is 70 billion barrels per day, American motor vehicles are not going to be powered solely by ethanol produced from corn. There will be other far more efficient methods of producing energy for transportation. Enzymatic conversion of cellulosic feed stocks to sugars and alcohols will no doubt be one of them. If we already have the technology to clone stud animals today, then surely we will soon have the technology to genetically engineer plants that produce their own enzymes not only for cellulose-sugar conversion, but also sugar-alcohol conversion. We will simply mash up these plants, put them into a fermentation tank, add water, raise the temperature and distil the resulting beer. Deriving liquid fuels from natural gas, coal, shale, tar sands and methane hydrates etc. will not only be too expensive, but also create atmospheric, land and water pollution which by 2050 will no longer be politically acceptable in any part of the world. Therefore a combination of reduced demand for liquid fuels and cheap bio fuels produced from dedicated energy crops is the most likely long term scenario. In the meantime however, what if it takes 70% more energy to produce ethanol from corn that the ethanol produces? It is good for the atmosphere, it is good for the farmers, it makes cars run better and it boosts technology development. So the industry is subsidised. What would we rather do? Spend the tax dollar on something that is good for the rural GDP and good for the planet, or make OPEC wealthier, spew more CO2 into the atmosphere and have our economies run down a path of ever increasing environmental cost and diminishing resources. Sometimes one wonders what these so called scientists do for common sense. They are so busy investigating, analysing, and tabulating, that they loose sight of the practical world that we live in. Hanns Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen
Also check out http://www.webconx.com/2000/hydrogen.htm Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: Pedro M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 11:41 AM Subject: [biofuel] Hydrogen From Worldwatch Online. http://www.worldwatch.org/ NEW RELEASES Hydrogen Futures: Toward A Sustainable Energy System Fueled by concerns about urban air pollution, energy security, and climate change, the notion of a hydrogen economy is moving beyond the realm of scientists and engineers and into the lexicon of political and business leaders. Interest in hydrogen, the simplest and most abundant element in the universe, is also rising due to technical advances in fuel cells-the potential successors to batteries in portable electronics, power plants, and the internal combustion engine. Order online, read QA, view the forum discussion, view the related links, or read the news release. Elabore caseramente biodiesel para su actual motor de gasoil petrolfero La solucin a sus problemas energticos. http://sitio.de/energia http://journeytoforever.org/energiaweb/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Hydrogen
From Worldwatch Online. http://www.worldwatch.org/ NEW RELEASES Hydrogen Futures: Toward A Sustainable Energy System Fueled by concerns about urban air pollution, energy security, and climate change, the notion of a hydrogen economy is moving beyond the realm of scientists and engineers and into the lexicon of political and business leaders. Interest in hydrogen, the simplest and most abundant element in the universe, is also rising due to technical advances in fuel cells-the potential successors to batteries in portable electronics, power plants, and the internal combustion engine. Order online, read QA, view the forum discussion, view the related links, or read the news release. Elabore caseramente biodiesel para su actual motor de gasoil petrolfero La solucin a sus problemas energticos. http://sitio.de/energia http://journeytoforever.org/energiaweb/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Oil subsidies, (was Ethanol/Big Time Loser)
Hanns: you presented a great reminder for me that we really need to focus on getting the point across to consumers that we do not pay the real price of oil... You said: So the industry is subsidised. What would we rather do? Spend the tax dollar on something that is good for the rural GDP and good for the planet, or make OPEC wealthier, spew more CO2 into the atmosphere and have our economies run down a path of ever increasing environmental cost and diminishing resources. -- And here is one link I just found on the cost of subsidies in the USA, for fossil oil. http://www.icta.org/projects/trans/rlprexsm.htm Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil subsidies, (was Ethanol/Big Time Loser)
The real price with subsidies and tax write offs is around $16/gal. Tee At 12:28 PM 8/11/01 -0700, you wrote: Hanns: you presented a great reminder for me that we really need to focus on getting the point across to consumers that we do not pay the real price of oil... You said: So the industry is subsidised. What would we rather do? Spend the tax dollar on something that is good for the rural GDP and good for the planet, or make OPEC wealthier, spew more CO2 into the atmosphere and have our economies run down a path of ever increasing environmental cost and diminishing resources. -- And here is one link I just found on the cost of subsidies in the USA, for fossil oil. http://www.icta.org/projects/trans/rlprexsm.htm Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil subsidies, (was Ethanol/Big Time Loser)
...$16 over and above the market price... or higherdepends on which study you use. There are plenty of them and they vary, depending on methodology and contingent valuation placed on the services the environment provides. Where is the $16 number from? Ed B. www.biofuels.ca - Original Message - From: Tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil subsidies, (was Ethanol/Big Time Loser) The real price with subsidies and tax write offs is around $16/gal. Tee At 12:28 PM 8/11/01 -0700, you wrote: Hanns: you presented a great reminder for me that we really need to focus on getting the point across to consumers that we do not pay the real price of oil... You said: So the industry is subsidised. What would we rather do? Spend the tax dollar on something that is good for the rural GDP and good for the planet, or make OPEC wealthier, spew more CO2 into the atmosphere and have our economies run down a path of ever increasing environmental cost and diminishing resources. -- And here is one link I just found on the cost of subsidies in the USA, for fossil oil. http://www.icta.org/projects/trans/rlprexsm.htm Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil subsidies, (was Ethanol/Big Time Loser)
It was a report from about 2 years ago. It was based on just the government subsidies and the tax cuts. Don't have it any more. Had a harddrive melt down plus some of my zip disks failed and I lost about half of my data. I'll do a check and see if it's still somewhere out on the web. Tee t 01:11 PM 8/11/01 -0700, you wrote: ...$16 over and above the market price... or higherdepends on which study you use. There are plenty of them and they vary, depending on methodology and contingent valuation placed on the services the environment provides. Where is the $16 number from? Ed B. www.biofuels.ca - Original Message - From: Tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil subsidies, (was Ethanol/Big Time Loser) The real price with subsidies and tax write offs is around $16/gal. Tee At 12:28 PM 8/11/01 -0700, you wrote: Hanns: you presented a great reminder for me that we really need to focus on getting the point across to consumers that we do not pay the real price of oil... You said: So the industry is subsidised. What would we rather do? Spend the tax dollar on something that is good for the rural GDP and good for the planet, or make OPEC wealthier, spew more CO2 into the atmosphere and have our economies run down a path of ever increasing environmental cost and diminishing resources. -- And here is one link I just found on the cost of subsidies in the USA, for fossil oil. http://www.icta.org/projects/trans/rlprexsm.htm Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] warning trojan
someone twice has tried to send me a trojan. deleat any email from [EMAIL PROTECTED] person does not have a account. greg [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Refill Madness
http://www.globalhemp.com/News/2001/August/refill_madness.shtml Week of August 8 - 14, 2001 Hemp-Powered Car Rolls Its Own Fuel Refill Madness Erik Baard, The Village Voice Hemp Across America: The Hemp Car crew (All photos from hempcar.org) While high-powered lobbyists clashed, seduced, and debated their way to a House energy bill last Wednesday that called for drilling Arctic preserves and left renewable fuel by the wayside, the dialogue at the helm of one alternative-fuel program went something like this: Where are we parking? I don't see any place to park. I dunno. Where are you looking? Are we parking here? Such was the chatter inside the confusedly circling Hemp Car, a 1983 Mercedes station wagon powered by oil squeezed from cannabis seeds and converted into biodiesel, a cleaner vegetable substitute for the petroleum product. Its passengers were activists from Virginia on a U.S. tour, who eventually pulled up and parked on a sidewalk for a pit stop in Minneapolis. The situation in Bush's Washington is much the same: If you're looking for far-out energy resources that blow smoke in the face of Big Oil, you have to roll your own opportunities. Though the Hemp Car is trundling across the wilds of America, D.C. is never far out of mind-that's where the tour began on July 4 and will conclude at the start of October. We're promoting biomass for fuel instead of drilling in the Arctic or taking a new look at nuclear power, explains Hemp Car spokesperson Scott Fur. The adventure began with Grayson and Kellie Sigler, the eco-activist couple at the heart of the Hemp Car effort, who were itching to take a cross-country trip without choking the scenery. Research led them to industrial hemp. That's right, the industrial stuff-you won't get a buzz from tailgating the Hemp Car. Not that the crew would mind. We see nothing wrong with responsible people using marijuana. We're frankly sick of nonviolent drug offenders being thrown in jail, Fur fumes. But mixing those issues may prove a bit too combustible for biofuel allies on Capitol Hill. Just ask South Dakota senator Tim Johnson, who introduced a bill to his chamber's energy committee in July requiring that renewables like biodiesel and ethanol, an alcohol additive made from cellulose, compose 2 percent of transportation fuel by 2008 and 5 percent by 2016. Johnson is girding for a fight with hardline conservatives in the pocket of Big Oil. I would guess, notes spokesperson Bob Martin dryly, that industrial hemp would be a little harder to sell than biodiesel based on soybeans. If hemp is too taboo for Washington, there have been enough other demonstration vehicles to stage a Cannonball Run. Best known among them are the Veggie Van, the Grease Car, and Greasy Gretta the Volkswagen Jetta. They can all trace their ancestry to the diesel engine showcased at the 1900 World's Fair, which ran on straight peanut oil. Today's Grease Car also runs on pure vegetable oil and used grease, but needs to be warmed first by burning diesel-coventional or bio. And it broke down on the return leg of its tour. Justin Carven, the 24-year-old who invented it as a college project, now sells conversion kits for $795. Oddly enough, for the pilots of the Hemp Car, one of the bedrock rules is abstinence. In the car we're trying to keep everything by the book, everything above board, so nothing bad happens, Fur says. He figures a station wagon emblazoned This Car Powered by Hemp and Make It Hempen is already a traveling KICK ME sign. Even industrial hemp, with THC levels so low you'd have to smoke a doobie the size of a telephone pole to get high, is illegal to grow (but not use in finished form) in America. It doesn't help that most Canadian farmers who started growing hemp plants-whose fiber can also produce paper and cloth and strengthen plastics-in a federal experiment in 1998 have already abandoned it. Officials there say processing it was uneconomical and teenagers raided fields to sell the drug-free clippings, misrepresented as kind bud to naive classmates. The Hemp Car gets most of its stash from China; it's processed by Apple Energy in Virginia and shipped to points along the route. So far, so good with American authorities, Fur reports. Actually, our only experience was positive, he says. When we pulled into Detroit from Canada, the border cops said, 'You know, there's no way we can let you in with a car like that without being searched.' And so they took us into this room and through the window we could see the dog just laying there with his head on his paws and all the border cops stood around the car and got their pictures taken with it. Their only questions were like, 'How is the tour going?' and 'How many miles per gallon do you get?' They know the difference between marijuana and hemp, adds Fur, whose uncle is a New York City cop. But that doesn't spare the crew some ribbing. One of the most frequent
Farm Show - was Re: [biofuel] a lurker speaks
Here's Farm Show's search url, useful: http://www.farmshow.com/searchdb.asp Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ ed me to, i`ve been collecting books and mags like that for 30 or so years. and they always seen to repeat every 10 years, so none of it sinks in. greg - Original Message - From: Edward Beggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] a lurker speaks Greg - I've always enjoyed that one. I built it myself...some amazing stuff from the farm workshops. Ed B. www.biofuels.ca - Original Message - From: greg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 6:00 AM Subject: [biofuel] a lurker speaks hi allmost of the time , i just look at what has interested me for more that 30 years. most of the time, people seem to discover what was discovered before.before they return, i hope they remember this is biofuel not nukefuel. anyway, to the point, lookover www.farmshow.com i just got my farm show magazine energy-saving idea book. some of the ideas are 25 years old. and i think it will help the people here. some of it it biofuel, woodfuel, corncobfuel. thank you greg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
