Re: [biofuel] Cornburning Stoves
In a message dated 11/27/01 4:24:52 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Cornburning Stoves
In a message dated 11/27/01 4:24:52 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sigh... Please don't respond, I've emailed him/her offlist, as usual. I don't suppose it'll ever stop happening. :-( Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ List owner Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/3FDzZA/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Treating glycerin
I was just thinking that by treating the glycerin biproduct from biodiesel which is sodium glycerate with hydrochloric acid (HCl) you'd end up with a product that is a mixture of table salt and glycerin which could possibly be fed to animals? We have a dairy farm and feed the cows something close to 3 oz. per day per cow and maybe using the biproduct it would have glycerin in it too so that it could be used as a fat additive in the cows' diet for energy? Anyone have thoughts on this? JEFF That IS interesting. This would apply to unpurified glyc? Would there be any by-products/waste-products from the process? Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/iHh8lD/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] water from the bubble washing of
Keith, What proportion of the methanol can you expect to recover using distillation? Ken Hi Ken Bit of a misreading here - it's Anton who's recovering his methanol. There's some info in the archives though I think. Dale Scoggins posted some figures a while back IIRC. Search here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/messages Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: 27 November 2001 06:43 Subject: RE: [biofuel] water from the bubble washing of I was treating my waste glycerin by leaving it out in the sun for a few weeks, and later putting a bubbler in it to evaporate the methanol. I am building a vacuum distiller that I can use to recover the methanol and reuse it. I believe that all the other stuff (lye, glycerin,leftover fry bits ) are O.K to put down the drain in small quantities, as per the advice of someone who works in the SF water department that said it will all get digested along with the poop. I imagine large quantities, whatever that may constitute, would be a problem, but I have also been told that a constructed wetland water treatment system could handle a fair amount of this stuff, as long as one were able to give a more constant stream to build up the kind of bacteria that would be able to deal with that specific brew of stuff. There, now I've said it... some biodieselers put the waste down the drain. Any thoughts about that out there? I notice that the veggievan book, and if I recall correctly, the journey to forever site, too, are silent on the subject of getting rid of glyc. except for the compost heap, which can easily be killed by large amounts. anton Hello Anton Journey to Forever has a whole big page on the many uses of glycerin. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html We don't discuss disposal, no - don't agree with the concept. We've snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/QzLWzD/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] washing water - down the drain or not?
I've read some posts from people here, concerning the bubble wash water- well, no need to. Thanks for that Alexs If you remove your meth via vacuum, all it is to it is VERY MILD soap-water. You produce a more lethal thing when showering or taking a bath. Do you know where I can find a description of the vac process? Also do you know how much of the methanol can be reclaimed in total per batch, both from the Glyc and the wash water, and in what proportions from each? Thanks - James Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Need new boots for winter? Looking for a perfect gift for your shoe loving friends? Zappos.com is the perfect fit for all your shoe needs! http://us.click.yahoo.com/iWGL5B/QrSDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO
http://www.nf-2000.org/secure/Fair/F484.htm#final Some interesting results here that help on this question of combustion of SVO in DI engines. Also a bit on furnaces. Worth reading over at least once, IMHO. Also interesting results on use of ethanol blended with SVO. Does anyone have further on this (other, perhaps detrimental engine effects, stability of emulsion, cold flow properties etc.?) The emissions results of this blend are impressive, and it reduces the heating of SVO requirement down to 80¼C from 150¼C for same droplet formation/combustion (not just viscosity being close to petrodiesel, but actual combustion characteristics - which is the real need) in small DI engines. Side note: The smaller the engine the more difficult it is to get good air/fuel mixing in a DI engine ( from Kennedy, earlier post) Edward Beggs www.biofuels.ca From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:32:05 -0500 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO diesels inject at near top dead center. how can anything spray on cylinder walls? there is very little left uncombusted by the time the cylinder hits bottom. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO My understanding is that the precumbustion chamber aids in mixing the SVO and air and aids in more complete combustion. I recall hearing of problems with SVO droplets spraying onto the cylinder walls and therefore not being burned and in some cases seeping past the rings and ending up diluting the crankcase oil in direct inj. diesels. This may be due to a higher viscosity of the SVO and might be countered by having your injectors adjusted for the higher viscosity of SVO. Of course if SVO is heated by the time it hits the injectors I cant understand why this would be the case. This could be a miscommunication between the two SVO communities...one which advocates no preheating of SVO and even mixing with diesel fuel (who obviously live in a very temperate climate) and one which preheats SVO and starts and stops on diesel. I have no choice since I live in Minnesota and for 4 months of the year have to deal with SVO as a solid...I must not only preheat for the inj. I have to heat my SVO tank as well. It seems though that by purging with diesel each start /stop cycle you also avoid the problem of accumulation of Acreolien(sp?) on your injectors. There are other forums that are devoted to SVO that you may wish to research this on. Does anyone lurking have any experience with an SVO direct injection engine? Dana Linscott __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/f00vhB/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] washing water - down the drain or not?
- Original Message - From: Aleksander lt;kac Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 06:26 Subject: [biofuel] washing water - down the drain or not? I've read some posts from people here, concerning the bubble wash water- well, no need to. If you remove your meth via vacuum, all it is to it is VERY MILD soap-water. You produce a more lethal thing when showering or taking a bath. The methanol still left in, it provides food for bacteria - again very small quantities. Diluted to a very thin mixture as well. Your spouse/girl/doughter/sister putting hair spray on her hair once a day is releasing the same amount of alcohol in a month as you are when you make a 10 gal batch. Many plants consiter methanol to be fertalizer. Greg H. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4bQK.B/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO
Ed, Thanks for this! Just read the whole thing. The improvement with the addition of alcohol is impressive. I'd like to try it with ethanol, but I've got a question. I know that most folks who make biodiesel use methanol, but I can't remember if it's because it's more readily available, or less toxic, or what. But if it's not any more toxic, I'd love to use some - and preferably from organically raised crops. If you or anyone else knows of a source, I like to hear about it. I'm in northern California. Thanks in advance, Craig Neoteric Biofuels Inc. wrote: http://www.nf-2000.org/secure/Fair/F484.htm#final Some interesting results here that help on this question of combustion of SVO in DI engines. Also a bit on furnaces. Worth reading over at least once, IMHO. Also interesting results on use of ethanol blended with SVO. Does anyone have further on this (other, perhaps detrimental engine effects, stability of emulsion, cold flow properties etc.?) The emissions results of this blend are impressive, and it reduces the heating of SVO requirement down to 80¼C from 150¼C for same droplet formation/combustion (not just viscosity being close to petrodiesel, but actual combustion characteristics - which is the real need) in small DI engines. Side note: The smaller the engine the more difficult it is to get good air/fuel mixing in a DI engine ( from Kennedy, earlier post) Edward Beggs www.biofuels.ca From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:32:05 -0500 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO diesels inject at near top dead center. how can anything spray on cylinder walls? there is very little left uncombusted by the time the cylinder hits bottom. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO My understanding is that the precumbustion chamber aids in mixing the SVO and air and aids in more complete combustion. I recall hearing of problems with SVO droplets spraying onto the cylinder walls and therefore not being burned and in some cases seeping past the rings and ending up diluting the crankcase oil in direct inj. diesels. This may be due to a higher viscosity of the SVO and might be countered by having your injectors adjusted for the higher viscosity of SVO. Of course if SVO is heated by the time it hits the injectors I cant understand why this would be the case. This could be a miscommunication between the two SVO communities...one which advocates no preheating of SVO and even mixing with diesel fuel (who obviously live in a very temperate climate) and one which preheats SVO and starts and stops on diesel. I have no choice since I live in Minnesota and for 4 months of the year have to deal with SVO as a solid...I must not only preheat for the inj. I have to heat my SVO tank as well. It seems though that by purging with diesel each start /stop cycle you also avoid the problem of accumulation of Acreolien(sp?) on your injectors. There are other forums that are devoted to SVO that you may wish to research this on. Does anyone lurking have any experience with an SVO direct injection engine? Dana Linscott __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/kL8TtD/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
[biofuel] EREN Network News -- 11/28/01
= EREN NETWORK NEWS -- November 28, 2001 A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network (EREN). http://www.eren.doe.gov/ = Featuring: *News and Events Washington to Host Largest Publicly-Owned U.S. Wind Plant MIT, ENECO Develop New Heat-to-Electricity Device Nuna Wins World Solar Challenge Car Race Gallup Poll Shows U.S. Support for Efficiency, Renewables EPA Launches Energy Star for Hospitals, Aims for Telecom DOE Marks 25th Anniversary for Weatherization Program *Site News Database of State Incentives for Renewable Energy (DSIRE) *Energy Facts and Tips Save Energy With Your Holiday Lighting Quads and Exajoules: A Note About Energy Units *About this Newsletter -- NEWS AND EVENTS -- Washington to Host Largest Publicly-Owned U.S. Wind Plant A wind energy developer was given approval in mid- November to begin construction of a 48-megawatt wind plant in south-central Washington state. The Nine Canyon Wind Project will be the largest U.S. wind project that is owned by public utilities. Energy Northwest, a public power agency made up of 16 public utilities in Washington, recently completed a $70.675 million bond sale to finance the project. Formerly the Washington Public Power Supply System, Energy Northwest last issued such bonds 20 years ago to finance the WNP-4 and -5 nuclear plants, which were later cancelled. It currently operates one nuclear plant and one hydroelectric facility. RES Inc., the U.S. subsidiary of United Kingdom's Renewable Energy Systems Limited, has been awarded the contract to build the wind plant. The Nine Canyon Wind Project will comprise 37 1.3-megawatt wind turbines from Bonus, a Danish company. With an anticipated federal rebate of 1.5 cents per kilowatt-hour, it will generate power at a cost of 3.5 cents per kilowatt-hour. Nine of the Energy Northwest member utilities will buy the power from the project. See the RES press release at: www.res-ltd.com/news/news14.html. MIT, ENECO Develop New Heat-to-Electricity Device The Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) announced yesterday the development of a new highly efficient device for converting heat into electricity. MIT claims the device is two times more efficient than its closest commercial competitor, opening up new possibilities for making use of waste heat from vehicles, industrial processes, and power plants. The device is based on thermionic technology, in which heat is used to drive electrons across a vacuum gap to another conductor, thus creating an electric current. Such devices typically require temperatures of about 2000 degrees Fahrenheit. The new device, developed by an MIT professor in collaboration with ENECO, Inc., replaces the vacuum gap with a multi-layer semiconductor to create thermal diodes that operate at temperatures as low as 390 degrees Fahrenheit. The research was presented yesterday to the fall meeting of the Materials Research Society. See the MIT press release at: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/nr/2001/electricitydevice.html. Nuna Wins World Solar Challenge Car Race Nuna, a solar car from the Netherlands, broke all records as it took first place last week in the World Solar Challenge, an annual race of solar vehicles down the middle of the Australian continent. Nuna finished on day four of the race, a day ahead of its nearest competitors. The team took a total of just 32 hours and 39 minutes to complete the nearly 3,000-kilometer (1,864-mile) race, for an average speed of 91.18 kilometers per hour (56.66 miles per hour). The European Space Agency (ESA), one of the Nuna sponsors, hailed the achievement as a triumph of space technology. ESA supplied high-efficiency dual-junction and triple-junction gallium-arsenide solar cells -- designed for satellites -- for the car, which also carried power control devices that were developed for satellites. The main body of the car was built from Kevlar-reinforced carbon fiber. Nuna even carried two strips of solar cells retrieved from the Hubble Space Telescope. See the ESA press release at: http://www.esa.int/export/esaCP/ESAFSAZ84UC_index_0.html. The Alpha Centauri Team, which built Nuna, also has its own Web site (in Dutch only) at: http://www.alpha-centauri.nl. Meanwhile, Australia's own Eastern Fleurieu School appears to have won the World Solar Cycle Challenge. Their entry, the Solar Flare, achieved an average speed of 39.2 kilometers per hour (24.4 miles per hour). The cycle challenge features solar-assisted bicycles. See all the race results on the World Solar Challenge Web site at: http://www.wsc.org.au/Results/2001/index.solar. Gallup Poll Shows
Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO
Thanks. If ethanol is less toxic, that would be a plus for my use (mixing with SVO.) And since I'd not be making biodiesel with it, the fact that methanol is easier to control wouldn't be an issue. Anyone have a source for ethanol made from organically raised crops? Craig Greg and April wrote: - Original Message - From: craig reece Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 12:14 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO Ed, Thanks for this! Just read the whole thing. The improvement with the addition of alcohol is impressive. I'd like to try it with ethanol, but I've got a question. I know that most folks who make biodiesel use methanol, but I can't remember if it's because it's more readily available, or less toxic, or what. But if it's not any more toxic, I'd love to use some - and preferably from organically raised crops. If you or anyone else knows of a source, I like to hear about it. I'm in northern California. Methanol is used more often because the results is easier to control and more consistant. Methanol is a little more toxic (to humans) then ethanol. On a toxic scale of 1 to 10 ethanol is a 3, methanol is a 4, benzine is 7 and gasoline is a 9, take your pick Methanol can be made from any source of carbon and hydrogen, this means that it be made from air and water (with the proper amount of energy applied of course). Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Unlimted calling with 3-way conferencing. Only $1/month with CrystalVoice! FREE trial. Click Here. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SeBmWC/g.SDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO
Ethanol is sold as denatured product (made unfit to for human consumption). Denatured ethanol, from organics would be difficult to find. I emphasize that I have not tried this blending and do not advocate this idea without further research. It is likely that there are problems with it with stability of emulsion, effects on rubber, effects on engine, etc., or we wold have seen more of it by now, right? So do your homework. If anyone has good research on this blending of ethanol with SVO, and various effects, other than the emissions effects noted in the article, please post! Thanks Edward Beggs www.biofuels.ca From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:31:50 -0800 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO Thanks. If ethanol is less toxic, that would be a plus for my use (mixing with SVO.) And since I'd not be making biodiesel with it, the fact that methanol is easier to control wouldn't be an issue. Anyone have a source for ethanol made from organically raised crops? Craig Greg and April wrote: - Original Message - From: craig reece Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 12:14 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO Ed, Thanks for this! Just read the whole thing. The improvement with the addition of alcohol is impressive. I'd like to try it with ethanol, but I've got a question. I know that most folks who make biodiesel use methanol, but I can't remember if it's because it's more readily available, or less toxic, or what. But if it's not any more toxic, I'd love to use some - and preferably from organically raised crops. If you or anyone else knows of a source, I like to hear about it. I'm in northern California. Methanol is used more often because the results is easier to control and more consistant. Methanol is a little more toxic (to humans) then ethanol. On a toxic scale of 1 to 10 ethanol is a 3, methanol is a 4, benzine is 7 and gasoline is a 9, take your pick Methanol can be made from any source of carbon and hydrogen, this means that it be made from air and water (with the proper amount of energy applied of course). Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO
Thanks, Ed. Craig Neoteric Biofuels Inc. wrote: Ethanol is sold as denatured product (made unfit to for human consumption). Denatured ethanol, from organics would be difficult to find. I emphasize that I have not tried this blending and do not advocate this idea without further research. It is likely that there are problems with it with stability of emulsion, effects on rubber, effects on engine, etc., or we wold have seen more of it by now, right? So do your homework. If anyone has good research on this blending of ethanol with SVO, and various effects, other than the emissions effects noted in the article, please post! Thanks Edward Beggs www.biofuels.ca From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:31:50 -0800 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO Thanks. If ethanol is less toxic, that would be a plus for my use (mixing with SVO.) And since I'd not be making biodiesel with it, the fact that methanol is easier to control wouldn't be an issue. Anyone have a source for ethanol made from organically raised crops? Craig Greg and April wrote: - Original Message - From: craig reece Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 12:14 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO Ed, Thanks for this! Just read the whole thing. The improvement with the addition of alcohol is impressive. I'd like to try it with ethanol, but I've got a question. I know that most folks who make biodiesel use methanol, but I can't remember if it's because it's more readily available, or less toxic, or what. But if it's not any more toxic, I'd love to use some - and preferably from organically raised crops. If you or anyone else knows of a source, I like to hear about it. I'm in northern California. Methanol is used more often because the results is easier to control and more consistant. Methanol is a little more toxic (to humans) then ethanol. On a toxic scale of 1 to 10 ethanol is a 3, methanol is a 4, benzine is 7 and gasoline is a 9, take your pick Methanol can be made from any source of carbon and hydrogen, this means that it be made from air and water (with the proper amount of energy applied of course). Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] mehtanol ethanol, etc. was...direct, indirect injection
BTW, methanol is more than a little more toxic than methanol when ingested by humans!! Methanol if ingested will kill you or at least blind you (and in fact is what is used to 'denature' the ethanol, hence the British term methylated spirits or meths). And it is usually made from natural gas these days, not wood and not air and water! Ethanol is 'grain alcohol' (corn, wheat, etc.), and thus renewable as well as considerably less toxic. Efforts are ongoing here in BC to establish an ethanol-from-wood waste production base, whcih has been previously discussed. It is true that ethanol is more difficult to work with in biodiesel production than is methanol, and it is more expensive (see 'natural gas princing',, economy of scale, true cost of oil' etc. for an explanation of that one!) EB From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:53:55 -0800 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO Thanks, Ed. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/QzLWzD/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] REDI engine sump oil stove
Has anyone seen plans for this waste (sump) oil burning stove? The stove is apparently the development of the Renewable Energies Development Institute (REDI) under the auspice of Waclaw Micuta. It may even be diagrammed in the 1985 book by him titled Modern Stoves for All. Supposedly constructable in underdeveloped areas by native talented local mechanics, it probably does not use air atomization or electric blowers. The Journey to Forever folks may know something of the stove or for plans thereof. Best regards, Joe Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- See What You've Been Missing! Amazing Wireless Video Camera. Click here http://us.click.yahoo.com/75YKVC/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] mehtanol ethanol, etc. was...direct, indirect injection
Is Methanol Poisonous? Yes. As with many other fuels, methanol can be highly toxic and should never be taken orally. A few teaspoons of methanol can cause blindness and a few tablespoons can be fatal, if the exposure is not treated. http://www.epa.gov/orcdizux/07-meoh.htm From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:23:17 -0800 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] mehtanol ethanol, etc. was...direct, indirect injection BTW, methanol is more than a little more toxic than methanol when ingested by humans!! Methanol if ingested will kill you or at least blind you (and in fact is what is used to 'denature' the ethanol, hence the British term methylated spirits or meths). And it is usually made from natural gas these days, not wood and not air and water! Ethanol is 'grain alcohol' (corn, wheat, etc.), and thus renewable as well as considerably less toxic. Efforts are ongoing here in BC to establish an ethanol-from-wood waste production base, whcih has been previously discussed. It is true that ethanol is more difficult to work with in biodiesel production than is methanol, and it is more expensive (see 'natural gas princing',, economy of scale, true cost of oil' etc. for an explanation of that one!) EB From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:53:55 -0800 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO Thanks, Ed. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/gwUrIA/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Sorry forgot link to REDI Stove
See http://www.icrc.org/icrceng.nsf/4dc394db5b54f3fa4125673900241f2f/231fd 9d6c658b8f4412568e20032a0f1?OpenDocument and look about 3/4 the way down at HV1 and HV2 stoves. Best regards, Joe Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4bQK.B/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Sorry forgot link to REDI Stove
hi Joe i could not open link. could you send me the page of list pls. on the hv1 and hv2 stoves louis [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 1:36 PM Subject: [biofuel] Sorry forgot link to REDI Stove See http://www.icrc.org/icrceng.nsf/4dc394db5b54f3fa4125673900241f2f/231fd 9d6c658b8f4412568e20032a0f1?OpenDocument and look about 3/4 the way down at HV1 and HV2 stoves. Best regards, Joe Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/QzLWzD/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] mehtanol ethanol, etc. was...direct, indirect injection
Have it your way. Just don't drink the stuff. EB From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Stop Smoking Now Nicotrol will help http://us.click.yahoo.com/2vN8tD/_pSDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: virus warning
Hello Keith, I merely forwarded this message to all entries in my address book. Sorry if this caused any inconvenience. Speaking of inconveniences I am mildly irritated but mostly curious as to why I often receive duplicate messages from the biofuel group. Perhaps you could explainas the sheer volume is tremendous even w/o duplicates. Thanks, Russ --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note: forwarded message attached. Forwarded messages are not attached at this list - no attachments allowed. Hence no viruses, thankyou. The one type of virus that cutting the attachments won't stop, however, is virus warnings such as this one. Not even timely, the warnings have been around for days, cluttering up all the other lists. But thanks anyway, I'm sure you meant well. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/f00vhB/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] REDI engine sump oil stove
hi joe i did a google search for HV1 and there it was i want one or plans. anyone on this list from swittzerland. louis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 1:23 PM Subject: [biofuel] REDI engine sump oil stove Has anyone seen plans for this waste (sump) oil burning stove? .. . Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/gwUrIA/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Sorry forgot link to REDI Stove
the link works fine, you just have to add the 2 lines together. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Louie Pelletier [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Sorry forgot link to REDI Stove hi Joe i could not open link. could you send me the page of list pls. on the hv1 and hv2 stoves louis [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 1:36 PM Subject: [biofuel] Sorry forgot link to REDI Stove See http://www.icrc.org/icrceng.nsf/4dc394db5b54f3fa4125673900241f2f/231fd 9d6c658b8f4412568e20032a0f1?OpenDocument and look about 3/4 the way down at HV1 and HV2 stoves. Best regards, Joe Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/3FDzZA/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Type Water Used for Washing
Folks- There has been some good dialogue on this newsgroup regarding water washing techniques and toxicity of waste water from washing biodiesel. Question: what type water is everyone using to wash their biodiesel? Plain well water, treated city water, carbon filtered, purified using reverse osmosis, ozonated, etc? Thanks, Dave [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4bQK.B/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Organic ethanol
Craig There are several places to get organic ethanol out there. We have built several stills for people that produce nothing but organic alcohol. If you are interested I can have some contact you. Although why dont you make your own? Thats what this is all about. Terry D. Wilhelm The Revenoor Co. INC www.revenoor.com 503.662.4173 On Wed, 28 November 2001, craig reece wrote: Thanks. If ethanol is less toxic, that would be a plus for my use (mixing with SVO.) And since I'd not be making biodiesel with it, the fact that methanol is easier to control wouldn't be an issue. Anyone have a source for ethanol made from organically raised crops? Craig Greg and April wrote: - Original Message - From: craig reece Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 12:14 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO Ed, Thanks for this! Just read the whole thing. The improvement with the addition of alcohol is impressive. I'd like to try it with ethanol, but I've got a question. I know that most folks who make biodiesel use methanol, but I can't remember if it's because it's more readily available, or less toxic, or what. But if it's not any more toxic, I'd love to use some - and preferably from organically raised crops. If you or anyone else knows of a source, I like to hear about it. I'm in northern California. Methanol is used more often because the results is easier to control and more consistant. Methanol is a little more toxic (to humans) then ethanol. On a toxic scale of 1 to 10 ethanol is a 3, methanol is a 4, benzine is 7 and gasoline is a 9, take your pick Methanol can be made from any source of carbon and hydrogen, this means that it be made from air and water (with the proper amount of energy applied of course). Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/kL8TtD/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Organic ethanol
Craig, Sound advice! Terry knows his stuff in this area and is well worth listening to. Suggest you have a peek at his website to confirm that statement! All the best, Mike Nixon - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 5:40 PM Subject: [biofuel] Organic ethanol Craig There are several places to get organic ethanol out there. We have built several stills for people that produce nothing but organic alcohol. If you are interested I can have some contact you. Although why dont you make your own? Thats what this is all about. Terry D. Wilhelm The Revenoor Co. INC www.revenoor.com 503.662.4173 On Wed, 28 November 2001, craig reece wrote: Thanks. If ethanol is less toxic, that would be a plus for my use (mixing with SVO.) And since I'd not be making biodiesel with it, the fact that methanol is easier to control wouldn't be an issue. Anyone have a source for ethanol made from organically raised crops? Craig Greg and April wrote: - Original Message - From: craig reece Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 12:14 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Direct vs. Indirect injection for SVO Ed, Thanks for this! Just read the whole thing. The improvement with the addition of alcohol is impressive. I'd like to try it with ethanol, but I've got a question. I know that most folks who make biodiesel use methanol, but I can't remember if it's because it's more readily available, or less toxic, or what. But if it's not any more toxic, I'd love to use some - and preferably from organically raised crops. If you or anyone else knows of a source, I like to hear about it. I'm in northern California. Methanol is used more often because the results is easier to control and more consistant. Methanol is a little more toxic (to humans) then ethanol. On a toxic scale of 1 to 10 ethanol is a 3, methanol is a 4, benzine is 7 and gasoline is a 9, take your pick Methanol can be made from any source of carbon and hydrogen, this means that it be made from air and water (with the proper amount of energy applied of course). Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/kL8TtD/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Methanol is DEADLY! - was Re: [biofuel] mehtanol ethanol, etc.
Have it your way. Just don't drink the stuff. EB Hm. No, Ed, I don't think Greg should have it his way. He's definitely underplaying the dangers of methanol. I don't think it's going to do anyone any good for D-I-Y biofuel neophytes to get the impression that methanol is nice, cosy stuff like the wood it's named for, only slightly less hazardous than the jolly old booze you buy in a supermarket next to the food shelves and drink with your dinner. Let's get it straight: METHANOL IS DEADLY! METHANOL KILLS LOADS OF PEOPLE ALL THE TIME! Aha, but so does ethanol? Indeed it does, but you're comparing a few grams downed in a second with TONNES of booze consumed by alcoholics over decades. Sure, if you sit down and drink a couple of bottles of whisky it'll probably kill you, and it happens, but it's not exactly common. Methanol deaths are common. Read any newspaper any day from South Asia or Southeast Asia or Africa or anywhere in the Third World and you'll see the mass wipeouts from illicit local brewers that got it wrong and ended up with a little methanol in their hooch - 12 dead, 25 dead, half a village dead. They often don't even bother to report it it's so common. And not just in the Third World. So, please, folks, treat methanol with great respect and caution. As Ed said, A few teaspoons of methanol can cause blindness and a few tablespoons can be fatal, if the exposure is not treated. Treatment will have to be fast, and it's no guarantee at all - you might survive intact, more likely you won't. Most don't. Also, methanol can enter the body through the skin, so WEAR PROTECTIVE GLOVES, and DON'T BREATHE THE FUMES. Methanol boils at about 63 deg C and we heat our BD brews to 50 deg C or more, so it fumes a lot. Also it burns very well and with an invisible flame - don't use naked flame near methanol. Mixing methanol with lye when you make biodiesel creates sodium methoxide, which is fearsome stuff, even more deadly. Sure, as we all say, it's easy to make biodiesel in your kitchen - but we all also plaster the how-to's with deadly warnings and precautions. PLEASE take them seriously, don't start taking this stuff for granted and being casual about it. All it needs is just one little accident - the media will jump on it, and us, and that'll set the whole biofuels movement back years, which will do the whole damned planet a lot of harm. From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Ethanol 7; Methanol 9; Gasoline 10; Salt 15; Benzene 55; Aflatoxin 1,000; Dioxin 250,000 Methanol if ingested will kill you or at least blind you Ethanol is toxic when it is ingested as well. Why do you think that people react it it the way they do? Your numbers may be clinically correct, but in practice there's no comparison. Medical science now accepts that small regular doses of ethanol are good for you, but they accept no such thing about methanol - no amount of methanol is good for you. It is not the methanol its self that is toxic, it is the by products from the liver breaking it down that is toxic. Which won't leave you any the less dead, or blind. A substance which generates toxic breakdown products is to be regarded as toxic. (and in fact is what is used to 'denature' the ethanol, hence the British term methylated spirits or meths). It is one of the ingreaents that may be used, but, not by its self. It may indeed be used by itself, and was indeed the original denaturant: add 5% methanol. And it is usually made from natural gas these days, not wood and not air and water! If you will check, the American term for methanol is wood alcohol, because it was first produced from wood. Then coal and now natural gas. I think we all know that, but commercially supplied methanol which most of us have access to is very unlikely to be made of wood. Brazil might be an exception, but almost all methanol is currently derived from fossil-fuel sources. We know about this work with methanol here Greg, it's been discussed before. Tom Reed did a lot of work with methanol fuel in the 70s (now he works with woodgas stoves, and was also very early on the scene with making biodiesel from waste cooking oil). There's been quite a lot of discussion here on and off about producing your own methanol from biomass. There was also a how-to article in HomePower magazine a few years back. However, despite lots of enthusiasm, nobody's managed to produce any results so far. Check out the list archives, I'm sure you'll find some interesting information there. But don't let me discourage you - please, go ahead, and good luck! I'm glad you've revived the issue. We'd all love to know about an effective backyard methanol production technique. Using dino-source methanol spoils it for many of us - it means our beautiful clean biodiesel isn't quite as clean as we'd like, and using ethanol instead has its problems. D-I-Y bio-methanol would be excellent. I
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: virus warning
Hello Russ Hello Keith, I merely forwarded this message to all entries in my address book. Sorry if this caused any inconvenience. 'S'okay - thanks for the sorries! Speaking of inconveniences I am mildly irritated but mostly curious as to why I often receive duplicate messages from the biofuel group. Perhaps you could explainas the sheer volume is tremendous even w/o duplicates. No, I can't explain. I know it does happen, but it seems to be irregular and not general. For instance I haven't had a duped message for a long time, or at least not from this group. Not from any of the Yahoo groups actually, though I've been getting them from some of the Lyris groups recently. I'm lost for an explanation. Trying to get any sense out of the good folks at Yahoo is an annoying waste of time - all you'll get is cheery auto-generated responses. But maybe it doesn't have anything to do with them - something to do with servers, routes and software maybe? Sorry I can't be more helpful. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Thanks, Russ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4bQK.B/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
