Re: [biofuel] Oil depletion and Iraq

[Appal Energy]

I wouldn't say that the present Persian Gulf status, or any of
its nuances, is too far off target as a topic.

Perhaps you remember "It's about jobs, American jobs."

or

"It's about preserving the American lifestyle."

These were two prime-time reasons given as justification for the
Persian Gulf War in 1991, by then Secretary of State Jim Baker
and President George H. W. Bush, respectively.

"Moral highground" took a back seat to both of these
justifications at that time, although so many would like to think
that such was the principal motivating factor.

The oil has not somehow mysteriously migrated from beneath Iraqi
and neighboring soils over the past decade. And while the threat
to "American lifestyle" and "American jobs" is not and has not
been rolling at a full boil as it was in January of 1991, oddly
enough an intentionally heightened paranoia and panic is.

To think that elected and appointed politicians do not calculate
the role of oil, its disruption and the consequences thereof when
calculating the plausability and acceptability of a second war in
the Gulf Region is not only folly, but lunacy. Oil and its
continual flow is vital to the economies of all westernized
nations, with the health of economies always being a national
insecurity issue.

To try and disassociate any of the three from each other in this
day and age is impossible. President Bush is without a doubt
seeking, just as his father did, a broadened degree of security
in the Gulf Region, one that may include weapons no different
than what the United States has presently stockpiled, and one
that certainly includes crude oil supplies.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Oil depletion and Iraq


> >No loss of human life, even if it is that of one's "enemy,"
can
> >be addressed so blindly and glibly.
> >
> >Todd Swearingen
> >
>
> Thx for the thoughtful response.
>
> As I mentioned to Hakan, I think that we might end up getting
completely OT,
> since the where-is-Oil-relevant thing dissipates and we just
get into a
> what-do-we-think-of-the-war-proposal-thing.  A topic of
pressing interest, to be
> sure, and one we might make relevant somehow, but basically
just a general
> topic.  Maybe there is a spillover group that the moderator
would refer us to
> for discussion of the organization behaviour ideas that he
seems to tie in
> sometimes.
>
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RE: [biofuel] Re: Air car.

[kirk]

Makes sense for city vehicles. Long haul vehicles may use more energy
hauling the extra apparatus than it saves.
City bus or garbage truck, great. Cross country 18 wheeler--I don't think
so.
Kirk

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 9:08 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Air car.


On Sun, 22 Sep 2002 18:48:54 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Hmmm... that's too bad.  As I recall, the Tonka Truck
>... truck ... even had it going to the "tail shaft"
>too!!

I think you may be referring to Ford's claims that when they make hybrids it
might well be, in some of their models, with pneumatic regen braking rather
than
conventional battery temporary storage or other electric storage.  Also, the
Detroit makers have said sometimes that they intend to make hybrids out of
their
larger gas guzzlers with the rationale that those vehicles could stand a lot
of
improvement in the mileage department.  For that matter, they're wasting
tons
(sorry for the pun) of energy: stopping a 2 or 3 ton vehicle and not saving
a
BTU of the energy for re-acceleration is just absurd.

I'm a big fan of regen braking (i.e.: of recycling the energy of motion) and
even though I think the Detroit and other makers are unethically mediocre in
their lack of clear commitment to progressive energy technologies, this does
not
make them wrong in all respects about everything.  There is indeed plenty of
room for improvement in the energy efficiency of larger vehicles, and there
is
indeed a place for an energy efficient regen system even if it's not
conventional and won't lend itself to grid-chargeability.  Ford may be more
inclined to consider a regen system that would help them fill (what I think
is)
their goal of avoiding a grid-chargeable vehicle, but, whatever the reason,
if
it works, it works.

I didn't know there was an Australian effort, but they're far away from
Detroit,
and that means they might actually get away with making some progress,
heaven
forfend, before some patent lawyers make a bee-line for them and try to stop
them.


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Air car.

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

On Sun, 22 Sep 2002 18:48:54 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Hmmm... that's too bad.  As I recall, the Tonka Truck
>... truck ... even had it going to the "tail shaft"
>too!!

I think you may be referring to Ford's claims that when they make hybrids it
might well be, in some of their models, with pneumatic regen braking rather than
conventional battery temporary storage or other electric storage.  Also, the
Detroit makers have said sometimes that they intend to make hybrids out of their
larger gas guzzlers with the rationale that those vehicles could stand a lot of
improvement in the mileage department.  For that matter, they're wasting tons
(sorry for the pun) of energy: stopping a 2 or 3 ton vehicle and not saving a
BTU of the energy for re-acceleration is just absurd.

I'm a big fan of regen braking (i.e.: of recycling the energy of motion) and
even though I think the Detroit and other makers are unethically mediocre in
their lack of clear commitment to progressive energy technologies, this does not
make them wrong in all respects about everything.  There is indeed plenty of
room for improvement in the energy efficiency of larger vehicles, and there is
indeed a place for an energy efficient regen system even if it's not
conventional and won't lend itself to grid-chargeability.  Ford may be more
inclined to consider a regen system that would help them fill (what I think is)
their goal of avoiding a grid-chargeable vehicle, but, whatever the reason, if
it works, it works.

I didn't know there was an Australian effort, but they're far away from Detroit,
and that means they might actually get away with making some progress, heaven
forfend, before some patent lawyers make a bee-line for them and try to stop
them.

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Re: [biofuel] Radiant floors was Re:..."stuff" in general

[Grahams]

>
>And this link for the home construction
>http://WWW.REWARDWALLS.COM/productoverview/iform_01.shtml?
>Very energy efficient, labor efficeint (my wife and kids can stack these
>blocks), and cost competitive to framing with wood. Joe :-)

Did you actually use these? I know a couple around here that did. The 
biggest problem was getting the concrete poured exactly when they wanted 
it.  She also said the job was taking way longer than they had 
anticipated.  I considered this method quite a while. I particularly liked 
the insulation on both sides of the wall.  However, for me, in this 
area,  it was just not cost competitive with a double envelope design- 
concrete is too expensive.

  I got inspired by noticing some very old abandoned stone churches. I was 
thinking how enduring they were. (The same was true for a building I 
bought, the concrete and block sections are still up to present day fire 
code, though it was built in the 1920's.) I also appreciated the fact that 
if you don't paint it, you will never need to waste time and money 
maintaining the outside finish.
I could not find a "stucco finisher" here in central VA, so the outside of 
our house is just parged with a basic broom finish. I did try to add color 
to the concrete columns supporting the walls, but the color didn't get dark 
enough to really see it. The walls end up 24" thick- 12" is cellulose 
insulation, there is also waterproof foam insulation on the interior of the 
outside block walls to prevent water from wicking through.
Here are two of my favorite sites.

Building Science
http://www.buildingscience.com/topten/default.htm
I read their site, attended one of his lectures and bought his book 
matching my humid mixed-climate.
One of the best resources I used.


Max's Pot-
  http://www2.cmpbs.org/cmpbs/
I saw pics of this place in Mother Earth News. Inspired by this,  we tried 
to minimalize unnecessary details. I called them to find a fire-rated 
equivalent to drywall without all of the useless extra stuff- taping, 
sanding, painting, (I hate drywall), but they didn't know of anything 
better.  Incidentally, Joe (above site) loves drywall and the ability to 
seal air leaks with proper sealing of it.

This is an article describing what you see on an actual visit to 
the  center, faster to get the gist reading this.
http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/spec/greenbuild/pliny.html

Sustainable source book
http://www.greenbuilder.com/sourcebook/
Lots of good information, I another I liked even more, but am on new 
computer- no link.

Caroline


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Re: [biofuel] Oil depletion and Iraq

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

>No loss of human life, even if it is that of one's "enemy," can
>be addressed so blindly and glibly.
>
>Todd Swearingen
>

Thx for the thoughtful response.  

As I mentioned to Hakan, I think that we might end up getting completely OT,
since the where-is-Oil-relevant thing dissipates and we just get into a
what-do-we-think-of-the-war-proposal-thing.  A topic of pressing interest, to be
sure, and one we might make relevant somehow, but basically just a general
topic.  Maybe there is a spillover group that the moderator would refer us to
for discussion of the organization behaviour ideas that he seems to tie in
sometimes.

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Re: [biofuel] Oil depletion and Iraq

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002 06:58:52 +0200, you wrote:

>
>It is not a simple situation and US has never made it a secret that
>they will look for US interests. It is equally wrong to say that it is
>all about oil, as to pretend that it has nothing to do with oil. It is
>two sides of the coin of political polarization that was invented in
>US. Nixon started on the work to make US less oil dependent and
>it is a petty that this was not followed trough after he left.

I agree with much of this.

>For the Bush administration, it must be difficult to give Israel full
>support. Despite their occupation of Palestine and their track record
>of respect for UN resolutions and on the other hand have to go after
>Iraq based on lack of respect for UN resolutions and suppression of
>parts of the population.

I disagree with much of what I think is here, but I think that since it moves on
to PAL, Israel and general geopolitical fare, it might be deemed OT.  If you
have a forum to recommend where these things are discussed without vituperation,
I might try it, but I don't want to get into a thing on Israel-PAL here (outside
of the more-relevant where-does-Oil-fit-in-discussion) in a biofuel discussion
area, unless Keith opened the floor on grounds of extreme circustances
warranting discussion.

Anyway, thx for the thoughtful response.

MM


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[biofuels-biz] Camillo's crude gycerine

[goat industries]

Camillo,
It's only important if you're concerned with purifying the crude glycerine -
is it correct to say that you sell it without any processing?
 Paddy

> Sorry folks,
> could someone please enlighten me, why that is such an important topic to
you what the glycerine is looking like (at room temp., I assume)?
>
> I thought, you all want to produce biodiesel in the first place.
> This is not to be sarcastic, I just would like to understand your motives.
>
> Camillo Holecek
>



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[biofuel] BIOFUEL FROM GARBAGE

[Kenneth Arthur Robinson]

Does anyone have any info or suggestions, on this matter?. Liquid is the 
preferred fuel form.
Please not too technical, my last chemistry class was in 1947.
Ken


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Re: [biofuel] SVO setup for winter use of biodiesel

[Neoteric Biofuels Inc.]

Todd - I think you might be wrong on that, but I've sent another post to
answer your question to me already. Again, I have to say I think the full
two-tank SVO kit for B100 is probably overkill. I'd certainly try just the
heater first.

Anyway, as for heating temp., there are likely combustion benefits to
heating the biodiesel beyond the temp needed just for the sake of flow.
 since biodiesel is higher viscosity than diesel at the best of times.


There have been studies showing a benefit of heating SVO in DI engines
(ACREVO, once again), and that same sort of thing would seem to apply to
heating of biodiesel - i.e. Get that viscosity down even closer to that of
diesel fuel, and your  emissions results (and those coming of course from
the completeness of combustion), will probably be better.


I don't have hard data on this for you from tests we have done ourselves,
but I sure would like to get back into a test faciltiy and find out for
sure.

 In the meantime, I'll try to do a google and see what turns up on this
aspect of biodiesel use -  perhaps you or others on the list have located or
may locate information on this - if so, please post links.


So, one question of interest related to the thread, then, is:


Is there a benefit to heating of biodiesel beyond the temperature needed
just for good fuel delivery to the pump and tho get it through the filter?
Emissions reductions suggesting cleaner burning, less coking potential,
etc.? Is 70C a good temperature to get those benefits, if they exist?

Regards,

Ed

http://www.biofuels.ca




on 9/25/02 8:10 PM, Appal Energy at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Michael,
> 
> I strongly doubt that just a fuel line heater would keep you
> problem free with B-100 during an average winter. Not even an
> average winter in Texas or Georgia. No matter what temp the
> recirculated fuel would raise the fuel in the tank to, you're
> going to run into the problem of fuel starvatation long before
> the fuel in the tank becomes sufficiently fluid.  More trouble
> free would be a two tank system such as has been developed for
> SVO and WVO.
> 
> 70*C is a bit high of a temp to shoot for. 15*C would be more
> than sufficient (60*F).
> 
> Todd Swearingen
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Michael S Briggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 5:57 PM
> Subject: [biofuel] SVO setup for winter use of biodiesel
> 
> 
>> 
>> I've been thinking about a way to let me use 100% biodiesel in
> my Jetta
>> TDI wagon, and wanted to see what others had for input.
>>   First, I'm wondering if just an inline heater on the fuel
> line
>> just before the engine (like the VEG-therm heater sold at
>> http://members.shaw.ca/biofuels/products/g3vegtherm.htm
>> It just uses the battery/alternator to heat the fuel, aiming
> for 70
>> degrees celsius. Turning this on shortly before starting the
> engine (could
>> be done by a remote before I get to the car, or just a switch
> in the car,
>> but then I'd need to sit there for a bit while it warms up)
> should warm up
>> the fuel just before the injectors so that it's nice and
> liquidy (whereas
>> at temps below 30-35ish degrees fahrenheit it would be somewhat
> gooey).
>> So, the engine *should* then be able to start on that nice warm
> fuel.
>>   The TDI also sends more fuel to the engine than actually
> gets
>> ignited in the cylinders, with some of it being warmed by the
> engine (as
>> well as the heater if I install one), and then circulating back
> to the
>> fuel tank, where it warms the fuel. So, once the engine is
> started, this
>> *might* be enough to warm all of the biodiesel to the point
> that it is
>> nice and liquidy. But, the concern is - before all the fuel
> gets warmed up
>> enough, it may just put too much stress on the fuel pump. The
> fuel pump
>> is right next to the engine, and pulls fuel to it. The heater
> would have
>> to be just behind the pump (away from the engine), so it would
> warm up the
>> fuel behind it, but not necessarily the fuel IN it. So, that
> might not
>> work.
>> 
>>   The second option is to use an SVO system, with me
> leaning towards
>> the one sold by Greasel (www.greasel.com). In the winter, I
> could put
>> petro diesel (with cold weather additives) in the main tank,
> and 100%
>> biodiesel in the auxillary tank. Essentially operating it in
> the same
>> manner as if I were running it on SVO (which I might do in the
> summer).
>> 
>> So, what do people think - is the SVO setup necessary, or could
> I just use
>> the heater to run on biodiesel in the winter?
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> -
>> Michael S. Briggs"Never judge a man until you've
>> UNH Physics Departmentwalked a mile in his shoes.
> Then
>> (603) 862-2828  when you do judge him, you'll
> be
>> a mile away and you'll have
>> his shoes."
>> -

FW: [biofuel] SVO setup for winter use of biodiesel

[Neoteric Biofuels Inc.]

Todd - 

I believe that it will work - but you're right, I can't promise absolutely
that it will. I just think it is probably overkill and not need to go to a
two tank SVO kit just to ensure that biodiesel, even yellow grease
biodiesel, will flow. Maybe I am wrong on that, but if I am, then a person
who has bought a heater can always add the rest of the kit later, right?
Easily done.

What is the temperature at which this  "yellow grease"  biodiesel material
ceases to flow?

That's the issue, I guess. If it'll flow, it will reach the heater. Then it
does not take long for circulation to heat up the rest and get good
performance.

You know, in cold weather when you first start out, sometimes you just can't
get enough fuel through the filter to get full power, but the car will run?

That's how I would think this would be for the biodiesel - it would flow,
but maybe not well enough right off the bat to get full power, (maybe not
even move the car in the worst case), but it would idle, and at idle a lot
is return fuel. 

So operationally,  it might be like what I do for the  SVO in cold weather -
start the car and let it idle for several minutes, and then drive gently at
first. I do that with the SVO. In that case, I start on diesel or biodiesel
or Nature Diesel, or blends,  and almost right after startup, I switch over
to SVO and then let idle a few minutes on the SVO tank.

In this case we are talking about single tank B100 plus heater, but same
basic idea. I also believe there is no need to switch on the heater ahead of
time. Just get in and glow plug the thing and have the heater wired into the
key - it'll be like adding one more glow plug's worth of current draw during
the glow plug cycle. If it is that cold, you should have the thing plugged
in anyway, if reduced emissions are the reason for doing all this (since the
bilk of emissions occur from cold starts...a plugged in diesel is a happy,
clean starting, long lived diesel). So that would ensure warm fuel underhood
for starting on anyway.


 Also, I believe the TDI has a circuit that loops the return at first, on a
thermostat, then returns to tank if the fuel is warm enough. That might be a
good thing or a bad thing in the case that we want return flow to get to the
tank ASAP. Have to try it.

Insulating the lines would help, too, and some insulation at the tank. This
would help retain heat accumulated while driving, for the periods when
parked several hours . It would also reduce the losses you'd expect from
steel lines at speed (cold air rushing under the car).

You may need to keep the biodiesel warm overnight. With the hood down, you
have the block heater on, and that keeps the engine bay and filter area warm
enough - if it's really cold, I sometimes use a battery blanket around the
SVO tank just to keep it warm enough to flow.

It is overnight that you need to keep the fuel warm enough in the tank to
initiate flow in the morning, so if it is really needed, one can add some
sort of  110V (house current) tank warmer, and that applies to the biodiesel
scenario here as well as to using something at the SVO tank.

We actually blend about 50% WVO (Canola) biodiesel in with our WVO in winter
and that helps keep it liquid, too, so this is why I think that for a lot of
biodiesel as B100, it will work fine on its own.

Then there is always  pour point depressants, and this can of course include
winter diesel, in other words, try the simplest approach of adding just the
heater and some insulation, and plugging in the block heater overnight, and
use the idle-in-driveway/gentle driveaway technique, and if problems occur,
reduce the percentage (go to B80, B50, etc. ) for the coldest few months of
the year.

Sorry for the rushed post, just on my way out the door...

Best,

Ed

http://www.biofuels.ca




on 9/25/02 10:03 PM, Appal Energy at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Ed,
> 
> I don't ask this confrontationally.
> 
> Do you really believe that yellow grease B-100 (or similar) will
> not be problematic when using only the fuel line heater, during
> weeks long periods of sub-freezing nights and at best mid-30's
> days? Such would be the majority at the middle to mid-southern
> latitudes in the US, with intermittant bouts of indeterminate
> length having "more frigid" temps.
> 
> I'm just having a bit of a go understanding how enough fuel can
> be warmed up from just a line heater to keep the entire system
> fluid.
> 
> Hey...if it works that's one less thing to screw with...so no
> complaints. But does it?
> 
> Todd Swearingen
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Biofuel-JTF 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 11:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] SVO setup for winter use of biodiesel
> 
> 
>> on 9/25/02 2:57 PM, Michael S Briggs at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I've been thinking about a way to let me use 100% biodiesel
> in my Jetta
>>> TDI wagon, and wanted to see what others had for input.
>>> Fi

Re: [biofuel] SVO setup for winter use of biodiesel

[Michael S Briggs]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Appal Energy wrote:

> Ed,
>
> I don't ask this confrontationally.
>
> Do you really believe that yellow grease B-100 (or similar) will
> not be problematic when using only the fuel line heater, during
> weeks long periods of sub-freezing nights and at best mid-30's
> days? Such would be the majority at the middle to mid-southern
> latitudes in the US, with intermittant bouts of indeterminate
> length having "more frigid" temps.
>
> I'm just having a bit of a go understanding how enough fuel can
> be warmed up from just a line heater to keep the entire system
> fluid.

Todd, the fuel recirculation system would make a big difference. Remember,
on most modern diesel engines (at least on the TDI), some fuel is sent to
the engine but not into the ignition chamber, instead being routed back to
the fuel filter (to warm it), and then back to the fuel tank (to keep the
fuel back there warm). This fuel would also be passing through the
VEG-therm just behind the fuel pump. Once the car has been running for a
few minutes, it should all be fairly warm. So the only problem is those
first couple minutes. The heater should warm enough fuel to start the car,
but then there's the problem of how much stress it would place on the fuel
pump to try to pull cold biodiesel
Sure would be nice though if somebody else would try this before
me, on a brand new '03 Jetta TDI wagon. :)

Mike



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Re: [biofuel] SVO setup for winter use of biodiesel

[Michael S Briggs]

On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Neoteric Biofuels Inc. wrote:

> > I've been thinking about a way to let me use 100% biodiesel in my Jetta
> > TDI wagon, and wanted to see what others had for input.
> > First, I'm wondering if just an inline heater on the fuel line
> > just before the engine (like the VEG-therm heater sold at
> > http://members.shaw.ca/biofuels/products/g3vegtherm.htm
> > It just uses the battery/alternator to heat the fuel, aiming for 70
> > degrees celsius. Turning this on shortly before starting the engine (could
> > be done by a remote before I get to the car, or just a switch in the car,
> > but then I'd need to sit there for a bit while it warms up)
>
> NOTE: "A while" is about 10 secondsit heats up almost instantly.
>
> Also you are confusing biodiesel with SVO I think - your biodiesel will not
> likely ever get to a point of being so thick that you have to worry about it
> flowing to the VEG-Therm, unless it is PME or you live in Alaska.

But biodiesel does solidify completely at cold temperatures (somewhere
around -20 F). Between -20F and around 30F, it would be slushy, to varying
degrees (more so at colder temps obviously). Here in New Hampshire, it
doesn't often get to -20F, but it does sometimes, and isn't uncommon to
get to around 0F in the winter (at which point 100% biodiesel would be
VERY thick). So, the main concern is if the fuel further back in the fuel
lines (away from the heater) would be too thick for the pump to pull. So,
the heater might warm the fuel within it quickly enough to start the car,
but it may then stall as the fuel further back isn't thin enough to get
pulled along by the pump (or, it may just put too much stress on the pump
and cause it to fail). So, that's the main concern I think.
Actually, the other concern is just plugging the filter. Since
biodiesel beings clouding (wax crystals forming) at right around the
freezing point (around 0C or 32F), it can clog the fuel filter there. So,
even if the car starts on fuel warmed by a VEG-therm right next to the
pump, the filter may clog because the fuel back there is too clouded. But,
perhaps that could be taken care of completely by having another VEG-therm
just behind the fuel filter (again, once the car has been running for a
while, this wouldn't be necessary as the fuel returning from the engine
would warm the filter in a TDI (return fuel passes by the fuel filter to
warm it), but it would pose a problem I think before it got to that point.
Hmmm, maybe I could try that - one VEG-therm just behind the fuel
injection pump, and one just behind the fuel filter

> Biodiesel is not going to go that viscous on you. Just heat it up. Your car
> was designed to run B100, with gelling in the filter the only concern here,
> IMO, not stuff being too viscous in the tank or in the lines.

The problem with it being viscous is mostly just the stress it places on
the fuel pump. But a VEG-therm just behind the fuel pump should probably
take care of that I think.

Hmmm... I'll run that by a few others with TDIs around here (who are
having problems running it in cold weather), and see what they think.

Thanks,
Mike



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Re: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: [Biodiesel] Re: liquid glycerine?

[rpg]

- Original Message -
From: Camillo Holecek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Sorry folks,
> could someone please enlighten me, why that is such an important topic to
you what the glycerine is looking like (at room temp., I assume)?
>
> I thought, you all want to produce biodiesel in the first place.
> This is not to be sarcastic, I just would like to understand your motives.
>
> Camillo Holecek
>

Camillo,
Initially I was concerned with the tendency of glycerine to set solid
overnight in my reaction vessel.
Blocked drain tap necessitated bailing out BD and then digging out
glycerine.
For this and other reasons I now draw off the glycerine within a couple of
hours of the reaction.

Regards  Paul Gobert


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[biofuel] Important question

[womplex_oo1]

Can anyone tell me for certain whether fully grown cord grass 
(Spartina Alterniflora) contains at least 40% cellulose and at least 
20% hemicellulose?



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[biofuel] Re: A trip through retrofit hell...and mushrooms

[fatguy1966]

Kirk, 

I have about all of the literature that you can have on growing 
fungus.  I like to joke that I have have hands of stomach and 
everything I touch turns to shit, so it is good to grow mushrooms 
then.  

Hydrogen Peroxide is good if you like to play with tissue transfers 
and do not want to spend a ton of money of things like a laminar flow 
station.  I have spent a ton of money and use the laminar flow 
station for a lot of different things like plant tissue cultures and 
yeast cultivation for brewing.  I have Rush Wayne's book on the 
subject.  E-mail me off-list and I can give you some detail.

If you are looking for something like spawn for mass innoculaton 
there are several places where spawn is available.  

"The" mushroom cultivation book to check out:

Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms - By Paul Stamets.

He is sort of the Gruru of cultivation.  His views of psychedelics 
may be contrarian but his techniques are state of the art in 
cultivation.  He also have a business called Fungi Perfecti 
(http://fungi.com).  He sells just about anything and everything for 
mushrooms.  There are also several other spawn dealers who are 
cheaper in price but Stamets backs up his spawn with either money or 
replacements.  

The thing I like is that after you are done growing on the substrate 
it could be placed in a methane digester for heat and fuel.  (I have 
met Keith's requirement of keeping this in the scope of Biofuels with 
this paragraph so as to keep this on the list.)

Let me know if there is more that you want to know,

fred





--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Any info is welcome. Books you recommend, good sources of spawn, 
things you
> have noticed, tips and techniques. I see hydrogen peroxide touted 
as an
> alternative to steam sterilization of media. What do you think? 
Have you
> grown Reishi? Portabello?
> 
> Hey Keith, do want this off list or is it OK here?
> Kirk
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: fatguy1966 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 8:10 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [biofuel] Re: A trip through retrofit hell...
> 
> 
> Mushrooms are my passion and a hobby that has gotten out of control.
> 
> 
> You can grow mushrooms on just about anything that has natural
> fibers.  I have grown them on paper,Toilet paper (very weird),
> sawdust, coffee grounds, and some crappy paperback books that my 
wife
> had wanted to sell in the garage sale but no one would want.
> 
> 
> Let me know if you have any questions about this one.  I know
> mushrooms.
> 
> 
> fred
> 
> 
> 
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Grahams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > At 02:09 PM 9/23/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> > >If you have access to cotton!!!
> > >I would turn that cotton into mushrooms.
> > >There are several papers on mushroom culture on cotton waste.
> > >Turn cellulose into yummy!
> >
> > One of the projects on my list was going to be growing mushrooms 
on
> coffee
> > grounds. But my husband stopped drinking coffee this month (too
> weird for
> > words), so I shall have to try another medium- tea leaves?, 
mulch?,
> I think
> > I saw paper would work. (plenty of junk mail!) :)
> > Caroline
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
> 
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.384 / Virus Database: 216 - Release Date: 8/21/2002


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RE: [biofuel] Re: A trip through retrofit hell...

[kirk]

Any info is welcome. Books you recommend, good sources of spawn, things you
have noticed, tips and techniques. I see hydrogen peroxide touted as an
alternative to steam sterilization of media. What do you think? Have you
grown Reishi? Portabello?

Hey Keith, do want this off list or is it OK here?
Kirk

-Original Message-
From: fatguy1966 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 8:10 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biofuel] Re: A trip through retrofit hell...


Mushrooms are my passion and a hobby that has gotten out of control.


You can grow mushrooms on just about anything that has natural
fibers.  I have grown them on paper,Toilet paper (very weird),
sawdust, coffee grounds, and some crappy paperback books that my wife
had wanted to sell in the garage sale but no one would want.


Let me know if you have any questions about this one.  I know
mushrooms.


fred



--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Grahams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 02:09 PM 9/23/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> >If you have access to cotton!!!
> >I would turn that cotton into mushrooms.
> >There are several papers on mushroom culture on cotton waste.
> >Turn cellulose into yummy!
>
> One of the projects on my list was going to be growing mushrooms on
coffee
> grounds. But my husband stopped drinking coffee this month (too
weird for
> words), so I shall have to try another medium- tea leaves?, mulch?,
I think
> I saw paper would work. (plenty of junk mail!) :)
> Caroline



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---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.384 / Virus Database: 216 - Release Date: 8/21/2002


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[biofuel] Re: A trip through retrofit hell...

[fatguy1966]

Mushrooms are my passion and a hobby that has gotten out of control.


You can grow mushrooms on just about anything that has natural 
fibers.  I have grown them on paper,Toilet paper (very weird), 
sawdust, coffee grounds, and some crappy paperback books that my wife 
had wanted to sell in the garage sale but no one would want.


Let me know if you have any questions about this one.  I know 
mushrooms.


fred



--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Grahams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 02:09 PM 9/23/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> >If you have access to cotton!!!
> >I would turn that cotton into mushrooms.
> >There are several papers on mushroom culture on cotton waste.
> >Turn cellulose into yummy!
> 
> One of the projects on my list was going to be growing mushrooms on 
coffee 
> grounds. But my husband stopped drinking coffee this month (too 
weird for 
> words), so I shall have to try another medium- tea leaves?, mulch?, 
I think 
> I saw paper would work. (plenty of junk mail!) :)
> Caroline


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Re: [biofuel] Radiant floors was Re:..."stuff" in general

[Hakan Falk]

Interesting, reminds me about a nice period in my life when I worked as 
consult in building acoustic, during the 60's and 70's. I have always liked 
system engineering and Sweden had a very active period in development of 
building elements during those years.

In the 40's, Sweden had a large strike by the bricklayers union and with 
very high salary rises as a result. This in its turn resulted in an early 
use of concrete and prefabricated elements. We had a number of jobs to 
assist with adopting products to the Acoustic Building Codes and Noise 
Protection Codes in the end of the 60's and beginning of 70's. Among them 
was very challenging work with YTONG ( http://ytong.com ).

Hakan

At 06:19 AM 9/26/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>
>To:biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>cc:
>Subject:Re: [biofuel] Radiant floors was Re:..."stuff" in general
>
>
>And this link for the home construction
>http://WWW.REWARDWALLS.COM/productoverview/iform_01.shtml?
>Very energy efficient, labor efficeint (my wife and kids can stack these
>blocks), and cost competitive to framing with wood. Joe :-)
>
> >At 06:34 AM 9/25/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> > >Check out this link for the subflooring that I plan to use in my new
>home.
> > >http://www.warmboard.com/
> > >Joe.
> >snip<



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Re: [biofuel] Radiant floors was Re:..."stuff" in general

[JOSEPH . MARTELLE]

Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com

To:biofuel@yahoogroups.com
cc:
Subject:Re: [biofuel] Radiant floors was Re:..."stuff" in general


And this link for the home construction
http://WWW.REWARDWALLS.COM/productoverview/iform_01.shtml?
Very energy efficient, labor efficeint (my wife and kids can stack these
blocks), and cost competitive to framing with wood. Joe :-)

>At 06:34 AM 9/25/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> >Check out this link for the subflooring that I plan to use in my new
home.
> >http://www.warmboard.com/
> >Joe.
>snip<






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