[biofuel] Taxation was Re: presentation tomorrow
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Another different example of this is that a "tax break" given to a > specific party can and should, in my opinion, be considered a subsidy > at least in some cases. I'm glad you included the word 'some' in your comment. It may depend on the perception of what a Tax is supposed to be. Is it a User-Fee for governmental services? Or it it a punitive measure? If some entities are punished less than others, to call that a subsidy would be to imply that others must be punished to a greater extent because the first gets a discount. > This came up in the original Bush proposals for drilling in the > Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge, where he proposed something like $30 > billion in tax breaks for various oil and Natural Gas concerns who > would be active in the region. It is not as clearly an example of > corporate welfare (i.e. subsidization) as simply giving these > companies cash money up front, because first they have to do taxable > work before they can get a break on the taxes that they might > otherwise have had to pay (and which others will now have to pay to > make up that shortfall). What shortfall? If a government punishes some aspects of society less, does it always follow that others must then be punished more? > Thus, the "conservatives" and supposed > advocates of free markets who propose such subsidies can somehow claim > they're not proposing Socialism when in reality they are proposing a > variant of it. I don't consider it a subsidy when the punishment is lessened for one person for performing a desired action. If all members of a group are sentenced to 50 lashes daily, unless they perform a desired activity, if one member of the group carries out that activity in the hopes of a lesser punishment, is that member being subsidied by the rest of the group? Only if his reduced number of lashes are to be distributed amongst the uncooperative group members! Perhaps we have opposite perspectives on the role of taxes? I perceive a tax reduction as a lessening of punitive action earned by performing a desired action. Is it your perception that tax reductions are a reward, the cost of which must be born by others? Cultural differences? Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] COOKING OIL USES !
Hello Peter This story's been around for awhile, I think we've had it on the list before. Pity - he got it half right, and half very much wrong, mixes aren't any use. Needs either a good SVO system or biodiesel, or both. It could lead to engine damage, which could discredit the whole idea and it'll have done more harm than good. (As previously with the palm-oil/petro-diesel "biodiesel" mixes in Southeast Asia.) Japan holds many patents on biodiesel and much of the good work has been done here, but biodiesel is nowhere in Japan, very few people have ever heard of it. And there's been some disinfo spread about it too. Still, there are quite a few Japanese here on the list, and a lot of Japanese visit the biodiesel section at Journey to Forever, both the English and the Japanese versions. We hope to start being a bit more active about it soon, as we were in Hong Kong. We'll see. Best wishes Keith >2002-10-13 21:31:51 > >Hello, All, > >Just a little snippet from my surfings ! > >http://www.nef.or.jp/english/info/lupo7e.htm > >Powering Cars with Used Cooking Oil ! > > >=Cartoon Report= >Powering Cars with Used Cooking Oil ! >The Ever Expanding Circle of Recycling >"The Society to Foster Environmental Cleaning-Owari" in kanie-cho, Aichi >Prefecture >Report : Taichi Ozawa / Illustration : Nobuya Akamatsu Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] COOKING OIL USES !
2002-10-13 21:31:51 Hello, All, Just a little snippet from my surfings ! http://www.nef.or.jp/english/info/lupo7e.htm Powering Cars with Used Cooking Oil ! =Cartoon Report= Powering Cars with Used Cooking Oil ! The Ever Expanding Circle of Recycling "The Society to Foster Environmental Cleaning-Owari" in kanie-cho, Aichi Prefecture Report : Taichi Ozawa / Illustration : Nobuya Akamatsu For the certoon reportage, we visited Kanie-cho, Ama-gun, Aichi Prefecture. Kanie is a town that borders Nagoya to the east. Kosho Yasui is the chief priest of Bukkoji Temple who will be the topic of this article. Mr. Yasui recycles used cooking oil to use as fuel for his diesel engined car. He says, " Nagoya has developed toward the east, so even though we are about 10 minutes west by train from downtown Nagoya, Kanie-cho is an agricultural area with rice paddies." While being the chief priest of this temple, he doubles as the director of " The Society to Foster Environmental Cleaning-Owari " to keep this beautiful country. His use of used cooking oil as fuel is a part of this. Now, household wastes have farnered attention recently as a source of environmental pollution. They are kitchen garbage and sewage. The most difficult of which are the edible oils. They are poured down the drain but they pollute rivers and the ocean and damage ecosystems. But since we can't all go on diets, an oil-less dietary habits are inconceivable. Used edible oils will continues to be poured. What can be done? Mr.Yasui tackled this difficult problem. Then he recalled reports of using eucalyptus oil in Australia and coconut oil in Brazil for cars. Taking this as a hint, after much trial and error, he finally succeeded in recycling used edible oil as auto fuel. One can't simply pour used cooking oil into the gas tank with bits of fries still floating on it. Impurities in the fuel like that will knock out the engine. That will be like pouring heavy crude from the ground directly into the fuel tank. Just as crude oil must be refined, so must edible oils. Such ideas of using used edible oils to power cars is not new. Mr.Yasui's accomplishment is in showing a simple "refining" method which anyone can follow. First. heat the used edible oil in a fry-pan up to temperatures that will not cause burns. This way, bits of fries can be easily removed by sieving. First, remove bigger pieces with a mesh net. Smaller pieces can be filtered out with 2-3 layers of coffee filters. Afterward, reheat the filtered oil. This is in order to remove any remaining water. There will be crackling sounds when the water is evaporating. Heat until those sounds stop. Then, when all of the water has evaporated, filter it through charcoal to remove any solid oils while it's still hot. For charcoal, use ordinary refrigerator deodorant. He says that two of them are enough. Put the charcoal in between coffee filters and make 2-3 layers of them. He says that the charcoal can be used 2-3 times. Now, this oil without impurities is ready to be mixed with gas oil. He says that in the summer, mix one part of used oil and two parts of gas oil and in the winter, make the mixture in the ratio of one to three. After putting this in a gas tank, you are free to drive. Performance is no different from using pure gas oil and the horsepower is even supposed to go up. But the fuel filter should be changed regularly every time with an oil change. But anyway, used edible oils can be used as fuel as long as one has a diesel engined car. Then, not only can the problematic edible oils be recycled but the engine noise goes down and pollutants in the exhaust gas are reduced. That is killing three birds with one stone. Recycling edible oils is part of the environment cleaning activities. The aim is not to replace gasoline but to return the edible oils to the environment in a way that is nature-friendly. When they are burned as car fuel, after they have released their energy, they will return to the atmosphere as water and CO2. The word of this recycled edible oil fuel was spread by the organizational newsletters and newspaper reports and now a lot of used edible oil is pouring in from school meal centers of the town. The circle of recycling is spreading. How to make edible oil fuel 1.Heat used edible oil to facilitate filtering. 2.Filter it with coffee filters. 3.Heat it further and remove water. 4.Remove solid oil through charcoal. 5.Mix with gas oil. Summer : Winter : Gas oil 2, edible oil 1 Gas oil 3, edible oil 1 Enquiries should be directed to: "The Society to Foster Environmental Cleaning-Owari" 230 K
RE: [biofuel] MIT offers all courses free online
I think this world-wide movement toward online education is very exciting. The next stage will be AUTOMATED online ed (with robo-professors). Then the first step is taken toward creating a giant world-wide machine intelligence, a knowledge machine. POC On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, kirk wrote: > Britain is far ahead of the US it seems. > This from a friend in the UK: > > We have had the open university for decades,it is nice to see that America > has finaly caught on to what we have been doing for so long that its first > TV broadcasts were black and white!! Some of the archive programs are so old > that the presenters are wearing 1970's fashion items and hair cuts! > The open university pre dated home computers and used late night and mid day > TV broadcasting slots and was one of the primary purposes for BBC2 (when we > only had three TV channels!) > The following is from the OU site at ; http://www.open.ac.uk/about/ > > The Open University admitted its first students in 1971. It is the UK's > largest university, with over 200,000 students and customers. The OU > represents 22% of all part-time higher education students in the UK. > The university is ranked amongst the top UK universities for the quality of > its teaching. Of the 23 subjects assessed by the Quality Assurance Agency, > 17 have been placed in the top 'Excellent' category. > > Courses are available throughout Europe and, usually by means of partnership > agreements with other institutions, in many other parts of the world. About > 26,000 learners are studying OU courses outside the UK. > Andy > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Party of Citizens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 2:32 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [biofuel] MIT offers all courses free online > > > Some say this is only a matter of putting course outlines on the Internet > but I am inclined to agree with you that for the $100,000,000 projected > budget one would expect a lot more. > > POC > > On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, womplex_oo1 wrote: > > > http://web.mit.edu/ > > > > Congratulations to MIT, the first school in the world to offer > > engineering courses online - And BOY did they outdo themselves !!! > > Check out the OpenCourseWare, the educational parallel to Open Source > > software... > > > > - course outlines > > - lecture materials > > - lecture videos > > - exam materials > > - problem sets & solutions > > > > > > By yr.2007 they plan to have approx. 2000 courses available online to > > anyone and everyone!!! > > > > (excited! super excited!) > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.393 / Virus Database: 223 - Release Date: 9/30/2002 > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: a few questions for an Op Ed piece
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "dan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hey folks. If you can answer this please reply, if you have the > time. I am working on an Op Ed. piece for my local Gannet Rag. > > 1) Are their current estimates of how much biodiesel the US could > produce if it invested in the infrastructure and agricultural land? Lets just say ethanol, US corn exports: http://www.ag- stats.com/corn/cornexport.pdf 50,000,000 metric tonnes = 1,964,285,714 bushels x 2.7 gallons per bushel 5,303,571,428 gallons of ethanol divided by 400(average gallons used by a car getting 30 MPG and driving 12k/yr = 13,258,928 cars fueled per year if made ethanol from EXPORTED corn > > 2) What percentage of curent fossil-diesel could be replaced with a > major national push? a freind of mine questioned if we had enough > land? is this a valid point? No, we currently (1997) farm @ 900,000,000 acres, about three acres per person, about the amount that it takes to feed a cow. Strive to replace 20 percent, thats a chore in itself. > > 3) Can WVO be refined to a high enough standard to justify its > commerical harvesting and refining for either biodiesel or a crude > heating oil? Yes and your gonna add 15% ethanol one way or the other, eh? > > 4) What, in your opinion, are the major obstacles to a "biofuel- > economy" as distinguished from a "fossil fuel economy" Getting EVERYONE to realize that yes, they can be self sustainable, and getting someone to pay for the still, and to get up and realize that Hey, maybe making 5% on my investment ain't such a bad deal after all. > > WHen I finish the piece, I will offer it on this server for others to > submit to their local press. > > thanks. > > dan rosen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] More on Australia and Ethanol and Engine Damage Claims
Hi keith could you plese take me off the e-mail list as i dont read the e-mails any more. i just dont have the time. could you please inform the other members to do the same i may rejoin at a later date. thanks. [EMAIL PROTECTED] >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com >To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] More on Australia and Ethanol and >Engine Damage Claims >Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 11:04:30 +0900 > >Hi MM > > >I don't know who "NRMA" is, but it looks like they are partly behind > >this attempt to limit ethanol mixing in Australia. I don't know > >enough about ethanol in cars to look at their arguments. > >National Roads and Motorists' Association Limited, Australia's >largest insurance company. The equivalent of the AA? >http://www.nrma.com.au/ > >Kerrie Thornton posted this to the vegoil-diesel list yesterday about >the "Frying Squad" SVO crackdown in the UK, on a BBC TV piece: > > >The interviewer kept asking leading questions like > >"so it damages your engine?" to which the AA said "yes" and the user > >said "no, not really". The AA and the revenue were quite aggressive > >whilst the user was laid back and understated. It was obvious that > >the revenue guy was trying to make SVO use as anti social as drink > >driving. Eventually the interviewer got bored as he couldn't think of > >any way to attack the user so he went to the phones. There wasn't one > >complaint, all callers were users and there was one enviromentalist > >who was very positive about it's use. Apparently there is a bus > >company in Wales which runs it's whole fleet on WVO. > >Stephan Helbig sent this message from Germany: > > >They also mentioned a AA spokesman: He should be clearly told that it > >does work after all- also on the long run. However our AA (ADAC) isn't > >better: They once stated that they do know that vegoil works in diesels > >but they don't recommend it as they think there is not enough capacity > >of land to grow fuel. But they only referred to todays approved fields > >with in the EU. > >He gave a link for the BBC program: >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2312521.stm > >Keith > > > >http://au.news.yahoo.com/021011/2/gc4r.html > > > >Friday October 11, 06:19 PM > > > >Hughes urges calm on ethanol debate > > > > > >A service station industry proponent today called for calm over claims > >ethanol would destroy engines and void warranties on cars. > > > >Former Service Station Association chief executive Kevin Hughes, who > >is now managing director HEH Australian Petroleum Consultancy, said > >the claims were unproven and were hurting small business operators and > >the environment. > > > >But the Labor Party maintained its concerns about the fuel additive, > >again urging the government to cap ethanol content in petrol at 10 per > >cent while requiring warning stickers at bowsers. > > > >Labor this week released a Caltex survey of independent service > >stations in Sydney and Wollongong which found 14 of 21 sites sold > >petrol that included more than 10 per cent ethanol. > > > >Car manufacturers have warned it will void warranties on vehicles > >which use petrol containing more than 10 per cent ethanol, arguing it > >damages fuel lines and overall engines. > > > >The government has failed to act on recommendations from the > >Australian Consumer and Competition Commission to at least require > >warnings on high ethanol content fuels. > > > >Excise has been introduced on ethanol, but domestically produced > >product receives a full 38 cents a litre rebate. > > > >Mr Hughes said there was no evidence to support the car manufacturers > >claims of damage caused by high-ethanol fuels. > > > >"There seems to be great damage being done unfairly to a product that > >is environmentally-friendly and of great use to Australia," he said. > > > >"Ethanol (in fuel) has been around at up to 20 per cent for years. > > > >"Some car manufacturers are pushing that ethanol is not good, but with > >no factual basis for doing so." > > > >But NRMA boss Rob Carter said motorists deserved to know what they > >were putting into their vehicles. > > > >"It is disturbing to find some petrol stations selling 20 to 22 per > >cent," he told Channel Seven. > > > >"The fuel system - that's where ethanol can impact. It can damage fuel > >filters, it can cause coughing and slow starting in the morning, even > >vaporising in summer." > > > >Opposition Leader Simon Crean said there was obvious tension within > >the government over the issue, with Trade Minister Mark Vaile backing > >a 10 per cent limit on ethanol. > > > >He said Prime Minister John Howard had to back a cap on ethanol for > >the sake of motorists and boat owners. > > > >"People have got to know it's in there," he told Sky News. > > > >"We've produced evidence in parliament that shows that motor > >manufacturers say that engines can't be kept under warranty if more > >than 10 per cent is used. > > > >"T
Re: [biofuel] a few questions for an Op Ed piece
Murdoch, There are many reasons to think about production/distribution issue, but there is nothing new about it. We have also lived with distribution models with many decentralized producers and are used to that. If you look at the farming/food industry, where the material for bio fuel must come from, it is a decentralized model on the production side. Where and how the refining should be done is an other question, but it would be faster to build it decentralized too and also reduce transport volume. On the distribution, we already have the network, which is fairly decentralized also. Points of sale can be owned by bigger corporations or many smaller. The vehicles and equipment are there on user side and bio fuel would give environmental benefits. It is no lack of suitable land resources nor is it any competition with food supply. Any other technologies that we know about are ready in such a short time frame that investments do not have time to be economically defendable. In short, it is no real reasons why large scale implementation can not take place tomorrow. The only obstacles are political will and strength. We need leaders that have the guts to do something else than defend status quo and make decisions against the wish of established economical interests. I do not belive that it in the end will hurt any interests, since businesses have a tendency to survive with changes anyway. Hakan At 09:52 AM 10/13/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >Patience and intelligence may be part of the problem, but economics > >and greed are central -- Big Business (Big Oil mostly, plus the ADMs) > >are only supportive of things that will make them Big Money. Any energy > >approach that is distributed and partial is not going to do that the way > >centralized sources would (nuclear, etc). And of course, anything you > >can do yourself (PV, biodiesel, etc) is even "worse". -K > >I guess I'd both agree and disagree with parts of this. I mean, >there's no doubt that a centralized corporatized giant project can >make a bigger push, in one moment, in and of itself, than one single >decentralized distributed presumably less big-business project. But >over the course of "installation" I believe that decentralized >projects can and will cumulatively provide for very large percentages >of the markets they strive to serve, and that, meantime, a centralized >effort, no matter how well thought out, might run up against some >upper limits, environmental, physical, economic, whatever. Just my >opinion. > >I think these can be subtle considerations, and perhaps more difficult >for an American like me to consider than for others given that I and >others have lived in a centralized distribution model for energy all >our lives. Some of the subtleties could I suppose be fleshed out by >looking at still other technologies which can easily be both (such as >solar PV). They are not limited to one single home or one giant >project, though there are different issues for both. > >For example, a homeowner who chose 10 years ago not to engage in a >solar installation at that time might have argued that he didn't >possess the skills and that they were not sufficiently possessed >locally, and that in a society with "separation of labor" he simply >didn't have the time (putting aside other additional weighing factors >such as simple costs, and costs of arguing over with utilities, etc.) >A centralized model might, it could be argued, inherently take >separation of labor somewhat more into account. > >Likewise, some might not be into figuring out how to make their own >fuel. There is a middle ground in that one though, where a few people >in the community could do it. At present this seems to be somewhat >illegal. Can't think of why, maybe because the present >Administration actually doesn't care, as they seem to want to present, >that they would like to do everything possible to improve our national >energy sourcing situation? > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a few questions for an Op Ed piece
>Patience and intelligence may be part of the problem, but economics >and greed are central -- Big Business (Big Oil mostly, plus the ADMs) >are only supportive of things that will make them Big Money. Any energy >approach that is distributed and partial is not going to do that the way >centralized sources would (nuclear, etc). And of course, anything you >can do yourself (PV, biodiesel, etc) is even "worse". -K I guess I'd both agree and disagree with parts of this. I mean, there's no doubt that a centralized corporatized giant project can make a bigger push, in one moment, in and of itself, than one single decentralized distributed presumably less big-business project. But over the course of "installation" I believe that decentralized projects can and will cumulatively provide for very large percentages of the markets they strive to serve, and that, meantime, a centralized effort, no matter how well thought out, might run up against some upper limits, environmental, physical, economic, whatever. Just my opinion. I think these can be subtle considerations, and perhaps more difficult for an American like me to consider than for others given that I and others have lived in a centralized distribution model for energy all our lives. Some of the subtleties could I suppose be fleshed out by looking at still other technologies which can easily be both (such as solar PV). They are not limited to one single home or one giant project, though there are different issues for both. For example, a homeowner who chose 10 years ago not to engage in a solar installation at that time might have argued that he didn't possess the skills and that they were not sufficiently possessed locally, and that in a society with "separation of labor" he simply didn't have the time (putting aside other additional weighing factors such as simple costs, and costs of arguing over with utilities, etc.) A centralized model might, it could be argued, inherently take separation of labor somewhat more into account. Likewise, some might not be into figuring out how to make their own fuel. There is a middle ground in that one though, where a few people in the community could do it. At present this seems to be somewhat illegal. Can't think of why, maybe because the present Administration actually doesn't care, as they seem to want to present, that they would like to do everything possible to improve our national energy sourcing situation? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] company financing energy projects
http://www.hqcapitech.com/en/index.html thought some of you might be interested. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] company financing energy projects
http://www.hqcapitech.com/en/index.html thought some of you might be interested. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a few questions for an Op Ed piece
murdoch writes: > > >A major obstacle to many alternative-energy efforts, including the >effort to promote the advantages of using biofuels, is the incorrect >assumption that unless a proposed idea (such as use of biodiesel) can >*completely* solve any and all problems then it should be dismissed >out of hand. .. >There are many good ideas though which, I think, taken together could >make a real dent in our present energy direction and turn us in a >better one. That is what opponents don't want. That is the tougher >answer that takes a bit more patience to hear and intelligence to >understand, and they very often do not seem to possess either. Patience and intelligence may be part of the problem, but economics and greed are central -- Big Business (Big Oil mostly, plus the ADMs) are only supportive of things that will make them Big Money. Any energy approach that is distributed and partial is not going to do that the way centralized sources would (nuclear, etc). And of course, anything you can do yourself (PV, biodiesel, etc) is even "worse". -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a few questions for an Op Ed piece
Dan, Even if I think that it is some flaws in the questions and that bio energy must be placed in a larger perspective, I will submit some of my opinions. At 01:31 PM 10/13/2002 +, you wrote: >hey folks. If you can answer this please reply, if you have the >time. I am working on an Op Ed. piece for my local Gannet Rag. Big subject and we can write several books on it. >1) Are their current estimates of how much biodiesel the US could >produce if it invested in the infrastructure and agricultural land? All of its current use and a few time more as a part of a more coherent and efficient use of energy. This without any negative effects on necessary food production. It will also have very positive effects on employments. US could be 100% self energy sufficient with energy saving and renewable energy sources, it is no questions about this. >2) What percentage of curent fossil-diesel could be replaced with a >major national push? a freind of mine questioned if we had enough >land? is this a valid point? 90% to 100% and it is more than enough land, since much less than one percent of US landmass have to be used. This even if you take in account a larger use like in Europe, which should be a goal. >3) Can WVO be refined to a high enough standard to justify its >commerical harvesting and refining for either biodiesel or a crude >heating oil? WVO can be refined and must be. This is the best disposal/recycling method available. It is almost a stupidity not to do it. >4) What, in your opinion, are the major obstacles to a "biofuel- >economy" as distinguished from a "fossil fuel economy" Political/Corporate road blocks and procrastination from taking the best decisions for the people. Time is also a factor, because it should have been started yesterday and with more determination. >WHen I finish the piece, I will offer it on this server for others to >submit to their local press. > >thanks. > >dan rosen > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a few questions for an Op Ed piece
On Sun, 13 Oct 2002 13:31:29 -, you wrote: >hey folks. If you can answer this please reply, if you have the >time. I am working on an Op Ed. piece for my local Gannet Rag. > >1) Are their current estimates of how much biodiesel the US could >produce if it invested in the infrastructure and agricultural land? > >2) What percentage of curent fossil-diesel could be replaced with a >major national push? a freind of mine questioned if we had enough >land? is this a valid point? > >4) What, in your opinion, are the major obstacles to a "biofuel- >economy" as distinguished from a "fossil fuel economy" Others can give you more exact numbers, however my personal opinion as to the inter-related questions 1,2 and 4 is this answer to 4: A major obstacle to many alterantive-energy efforts, including the effort to promote the advantages of using biofuels, is the incorrect assumption that unless a proposed idea (such as use of biodiesel) can *completely* solve any and all problems then it should be dismissed out of hand. So, if it turns out that use of biodiesel might not be able to replace any and all present use of petroleum, should we then just abandon all attempt to discuss and use biodiesel? Make no mistake at all: this is precisely what the opponents of good energy ideas propose: They dismiss out of hand many good ideas because they can only provide a part of "the solution" and not the whole solution. In the case of biodiesel, I don't know the numbers, so for all I know we could sustain a way to replace much or all petrol use with biofuel use (while simultaneously not over-taxing our soil or endangering our food supply). But even if not, it doesn't matter. There is *no such thing* on earth as a single technolgy that is the be-all end-all energy solution. Those who dismiss good ideas out of hand therefor dismissing virtually all new ideas because none of them can completely magically turn everything on a dime by virtue of one single action. There are many good ideas though which, I think, taken together could make a real dent in our present energy direction and turn us in a better one. That is what opponents don't want. That is the tougher answer that takes a bit more patience to hear and intelligence to understand, and they very often do not seem to possess either. Also, conservation is an answer often dismissed on the same grounds... that it can't do everything, so we shouldn't ask it to do anything, so our opponents sometimes reason. So, I'm sorry I cannot answer your question as to the precise amounts of fuel that biofuels could provide. In fact, I may be very wrong and maybe all present fuel needs could be provided by bio-derived fuels. My personal opinion is also (while I'm at it) that biofuels are merely a subset of a larger concept, which is synthetic fuels sustainably derived. Just as your friend and others challenge whether biofuels could maintain their sustainability, beyond certain volumes, so too we can see that some fuels could be made sustainably even if we presently don't quite think of it that way. So, Hydrogen can be made from solar energy, for example, and methane can be made from wood and other renwable sources, for example. I will look forward to reading your piece, even if I don't agree with it. I salute you on your initiative and on asking the other folks here for their knowledge or point of view. MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] a few questions for an Op Ed piece
hey folks. If you can answer this please reply, if you have the time. I am working on an Op Ed. piece for my local Gannet Rag. 1) Are their current estimates of how much biodiesel the US could produce if it invested in the infrastructure and agricultural land? 2) What percentage of curent fossil-diesel could be replaced with a major national push? a freind of mine questioned if we had enough land? is this a valid point? 3) Can WVO be refined to a high enough standard to justify its commerical harvesting and refining for either biodiesel or a crude heating oil? 4) What, in your opinion, are the major obstacles to a "biofuel- economy" as distinguished from a "fossil fuel economy" WHen I finish the piece, I will offer it on this server for others to submit to their local press. thanks. dan rosen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] hydrous ion-adsorption beads
>Has any lister had any experience with or have knowledge of the hydrous >ion-adsorption beads ACUSORB? > >Re: http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/bioD.html";>Bio diesel >filters Biodiesel green oil black oil Bio diesel filters green >oil black oil Bio diesel filters Biodiesel green oi.. > >http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/bioD.html See: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=14798&list=BIOFUEL Info-Archive at NNYTech Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] hydrous ion-adsorption beads
Has any lister had any experience with or have knowledge of the hydrous ion-adsorption beads ACUSORB? Re: http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/bioD.html";>Bio diesel filters Biodiesel green oil black oil Bio diesel filters green oil black oil Bio diesel filters Biodiesel green oi.. http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/bioD.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
